wittyscorpion
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All warfare is based on deception.
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Post by wittyscorpion on Aug 10, 2015 17:04:00 GMT -5
Sounds like it is an easy choice for you then, just get a PS4 As the earlies discussions between iw5K and mousey have pointed out: the console war and related exclusivity stuff will remain at least for the foreseeable future. Based on what you said, one side of the players will always get screwed over. It was PSN, now it is XBL. It is unfortunate, but it is just business, at least until the day of cross console play comes (if ever).
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pachiderm
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Post by pachiderm on Aug 10, 2015 17:28:12 GMT -5
Sounds like it is an easy choice for you then, just get a PS4 As the earlies discussions between iw5K and mousey have pointed out: the console war and related exclusivity stuff will remain at least for the foreseeable future. Based on what you said, one side of the players will always get screwed over. It was PSN, now it is XBL. It is unfortunate, but it is just business, at least until the day of cross console play comes (if ever). That's simply not true though. This isn't a console war. The entire competitive community is on xbox. No one on playstation was getting screwed anymore because the community has been on xbox since CoD4, excluding the one year hiatus for Black Ops. This wasn't a case of PSN getting screwed because MLG signed an agreement with Microsoft. The community essentially started and chose to remain on xbox for the entire franchise. There was a time when the community decided things like ban lists, and rulesets, and which console to play on. Now we have DLC, and aftermarket controllers, and console exclusivity. We're moving further and further away from being a community about the players, and becoming a community about making money for the corporations who are now in charge. As much as I hate to say it, IW5000 is right that competitive gaming needs some form of protection from exploitation before it can start being taken seriously, but we're a long way off from that.
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Aug 10, 2015 18:30:14 GMT -5
This has gone beyond my interest on the topic (as I only care enough to the level of ranked play supported in game), but it's not like we have a lot of things to talk about nowadays so I'll play the devil's advocate.
Sounds like this "community" decided to screw PS3 players a long time ago. It does not mean players on that side should continue to be screwed over until the eternity, especially after the new generation of consoles just come along. After all, players have to pick up a new console anyway, why can't it be PS4 this time?
Looking at this from a completely different angle: if this community is strong willed enough, why do they have to abide to what the corporations decide? The community can stay on the XBL side, organize their LAN / GB / tournaments as before, regardless what corporations choose as "official" platform.
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pachiderm
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Chewing some serious leaves
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Post by pachiderm on Aug 10, 2015 18:40:40 GMT -5
This has gone beyond my interest on the topic (as I only care enough to the level of ranked play supported in game), but it's not like we have a lot of things to talk about nowadays so I'll play the devil's advocate. Sounds like this "community" decided to screw PS3 players a long time ago. It does not mean players on that side should continue to be screwed over until the eternity, especially after the new generation of consoles just come along. After all, players have to pick up a new console anyway, why can't it be PS4 this time? Looking at this from a completely different angle: if this community is strong willed enough, why do they have to abide to what the corporations decide? The community can stay on the XBL side, organize their LAN / GB / tournaments as before, regardless what corporations choose as "official" platform. Why do I feel like you don't know enough about this topic to be having this conversation?
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Aug 10, 2015 19:55:36 GMT -5
And it's obvious why Xbox took off compared to the PS3. It's the same reason PS4 took off. It released first, it released at a cheaper price and it was marketed for games. The 360 also had the advantage of already having a dedicated online platform because of the Original Xbox and Xbox live. PS3 was stumbling over itself really until the Slim model and price drop.
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Aug 10, 2015 23:54:51 GMT -5
This has gone beyond my interest on the topic (as I only care enough to the level of ranked play supported in game), but it's not like we have a lot of things to talk about nowadays so I'll play the devil's advocate. Sounds like this "community" decided to screw PS3 players a long time ago. It does not mean players on that side should continue to be screwed over until the eternity, especially after the new generation of consoles just come along. After all, players have to pick up a new console anyway, why can't it be PS4 this time? Looking at this from a completely different angle: if this community is strong willed enough, why do they have to abide to what the corporations decide? The community can stay on the XBL side, organize their LAN / GB / tournaments as before, regardless what corporations choose as "official" platform. Why do I feel like you don't know enough about this topic to be having this conversation? Yes. As I stated earlier, I know nothing about this community (that sits between pub play and pro play) am mainly curious about how they operate. But regardless the ignorance, I don't see why players on the XBL side should feel that XBL is entitled to be picked as the official platform in the new generation, simply because they had it in the last generation. Seems to be it is unfair to the players on the PSN side. I am sure that there are significant number of players there would have wanted to get a piece of this action. Keep in mind that I have been on the XBL side all along and don't like PSN to get exclusives. For example, I play Destiny a lot and it sucks to see the game developer (Bungie) that used to be on the XBL side now gave PSN all kinds of exclusives. However, business is business, one side is doomed to get screwed as long as this console war is going on.
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
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Post by wittyscorpion on Aug 11, 2015 2:15:26 GMT -5
That definitely makes sense. If this switch is in the middle of a console generation I would wholeheartedly agree.
However, a new generation just started and previous owners of X360 don't necessarily want to get XONE this time around and may want PS4 instead, players of this competitive ameteur community included. Also, along side with the new console generation there will also be a new generation of players who did not even play last generation of consoles. Who's to say that whoever picked PS4 should get screwed over because of what happened in the previous generation. Let's face it, competitive esports is a young men's game, it will be dominated by these new players soon, in 2-3 years at most.
As it stands today, at least both sides have something they can get into. There will be intense competition between Halo 5 on XONE vs. Blops 3 on PS4, which should push developers to offer more compelling experience, and companies with huge stakes in this competition throw more money into eSports.
Sure, significant number of existing competitive cod players are not interested in Halo 5, and many of them probably have already purchased a XONE because that's the official platform for AW. Well, yes, it is not a good situation for these players, but in the worse case scenario they can trade in their XONE / cancel XBL and get a PS4 instead, not the worst thing in the world.
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PSIII
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Post by PSIII on Aug 11, 2015 9:53:30 GMT -5
And it's obvious why Xbox took off compared to the PS3. It's the same reason PS4 took off. It released first, it released at a cheaper price and it was marketed for games. The 360 also had the advantage of already having a dedicated online platform because of the Original Xbox and Xbox live. PS3 was stumbling over itself really until the Slim model and price drop. The 360 leading the two wasn't really much on what Microsoft did. Halo was really the only thing at the end of the day (not saying Microsoft didn't do anything else, certainly not. They did a lot, but they aren't as key as having Halo back then). Sony just went suicide during the launch of the PS3. The old E3 conference was bad, the launch title lineup was good, but was then destroyed by stuff getting delayed. Sony lost some potential exclusives. And when the PS3 actually launched they shipped, like ten units total lol. Months and months you couldn't get your hands on one unless you were lucky, and they didn't ship enough to meet demand, so people had to wait or just settle for the 360. The 360 only had two million consoles out in the period of a year, absolutely nothing to the people who had PS2's, waiting to get a next gen console. The actual number of launch units in the US was around 100K PS3s if I remember. That is unfathomable miniscule. You were literally God among your friends if you had one.
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Aug 11, 2015 11:35:43 GMT -5
I still stand by my complete lack of sympathy for PS4 owners who would be "getting screwed" when they have done nothing to contribute to the community thus far, and if they were truly interested then they could've gotten an xbox in the first place. Pretty much every argument about the xbox players being able to switch can be applied to the PS4 owners, but is far more reasonable because of how much larger and more developed the competitive scene is on xbox. Again I am just curious: this "lack of contributions" from PS players, is it because they were not interested, or because they did not even have a chance in the first place? Anyways, as I said earlier I was playing Devil's Advocate. No players like exclusives but they are way of life. We will just have to deal with it. The strongest response is boycotting, but I don't see that happening if the amateur CoD competitive community are largely at mercy of what ATVI and MLG decide to support.
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Aug 11, 2015 12:05:44 GMT -5
Treyarch just dropped a new trailer for beta, unclear whether the Rank Play is included though (really hope it is, but does not seem likely):
Also note that the trailer intentionally left the beta date out for XONE / PC to make it PS4 focused...
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Post by iw5000 on Aug 11, 2015 13:25:19 GMT -5
Watch the video at the 0:40 sec mark. Is Treyarch bringing back the blood and gore? The clip shows a shot person having their arms and legs blown off!!! Wow.
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Post by kylet357 on Aug 11, 2015 13:42:30 GMT -5
Watch the video at the 0:40 sec mark. Is Treyarch bringing back the blood and gore? The clip shows a shot person having their arms and legs blown off!!! Wow. I saw that too. I couldn't get a good look at it, but it definitely looks like we might have some gore in MP.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Aug 11, 2015 15:36:14 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 15:52:29 GMT -5
It's because it's no longer fashionable for the news to attribute shooting sprees on violent video games anymore, isn't it? Not that that's a bad thing.
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Post by kylet357 on Aug 11, 2015 17:58:19 GMT -5
I knew gibbing was gonna be in the SP, it always has been in all of 3arc's games since World at War. I didn't know whether or not it was coming to MP though.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Aug 11, 2015 19:27:13 GMT -5
It's because it's no longer fashionable for the news to attribute shooting sprees on violent video games anymore, isn't it?Not that that's a bad thing. I think it's really just the fact the hardware is better. IIRC they chose the customization for Bo and Bo2 instead of gibbing because of the hardware limitations. I mean it's not like CoD shies away from controversy. No Russia, Nuking the PC, assassinating Castro. Noriega tried to sue them, some dude killed a teen over losing a match in CoD, several mass shooters were being tied to Call of Duty, from Sandy Hook to Norway. hell, PETA threw a hissy fit over killing dogs in World at War, and the Red Cross suggested showing the results of committing war crimes in games because they say FPS cause violence. And as response to Hatred and GTA V showed, it's still very much popular to attribute video games to violence. It's just that the general population doesn't give a shit.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Aug 11, 2015 19:28:44 GMT -5
I knew gibbing was gonna be in the SP, it always has been in all of 3arc's games since World at War. I didn't know whether or not it was coming to MP though. Both of those were in regards to the YouTubers trip to play the MP back in April.
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Aug 12, 2015 10:27:12 GMT -5
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Aug 12, 2015 11:42:59 GMT -5
It's definitely helpful for the time being. It's worth nothing though that Dota 2 was already free to play and chock full of cosmetic MTAs to begin with, while halo (or any console game really) doesn't quite have that culture itself. Not sure what crowdfunding for HWC (Halo World Championship) yet. Microtransactions are already established in CoD, and Halo 5 will have them as well (for REQ packs). Maybe ATVI/MSFT can contribute part of that earnings to the eSport prize pool. Recently AW started producing pro team themed suits (e.g. Optic Gaming). If items like these can be fully contrbuted to eSports, fans might be more willing to buy them.
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Post by netherwind on Aug 13, 2015 2:23:14 GMT -5
This isn't the turn of the new generation. The consoles have been out for nearly two years and competitive cod has already spent a game and a half on xbox. The people who havent spent the money on an xbone or bought a ps4 instead arent the people who are particularly invested in the first place. I still stand by my complete lack of sympathy for PS4 owners who would be "getting screwed" when they have done nothing to contribute to the community thus far, and if they were truly interested then they could've gotten an xbox in the first place. Pretty much every argument about the xbox players being able to switch can be applied to the PS4 owners, but is far more reasonable because of how much larger and more developed the competitive scene is on xbox. No, the point is, the 360 XBL players who contribute the most to CoD, are more likely have a PS4 now than X1. Also no contribution? The biggest contribution is buying the game, and PS4 players have bought far more copies than X1 players. Last, no, lack of? What? Sorry but it doesn't even apply here, PS4 players gets the cool staff first now.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Aug 13, 2015 10:39:15 GMT -5
it isn't?
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wings
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Post by wings on Aug 13, 2015 11:10:40 GMT -5
Do you have half an idea what we're even discussing here? This isn't about who can deepthroat activision the hardest. Well if it is then you can find out the winner by whoever pukes up the most.
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pachiderm
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Chewing some serious leaves
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Post by pachiderm on Aug 13, 2015 17:31:32 GMT -5
This isn't the turn of the new generation. The consoles have been out for nearly two years and competitive cod has already spent a game and a half on xbox. The people who havent spent the money on an xbone or bought a ps4 instead arent the people who are particularly invested in the first place. I still stand by my complete lack of sympathy for PS4 owners who would be "getting screwed" when they have done nothing to contribute to the community thus far, and if they were truly interested then they could've gotten an xbox in the first place. Pretty much every argument about the xbox players being able to switch can be applied to the PS4 owners, but is far more reasonable because of how much larger and more developed the competitive scene is on xbox. No, the point is, the 360 XBL players who contribute the most to CoD, are more likely have a PS4 now than X1. Also no contribution? The biggest contribution is buying the game, and PS4 players have bought far more copies than X1 players. Last, no, lack of? What? Sorry but it doesn't even apply here, PS4 players gets the cool staff first now. In the off chance that you are neither a troll nor a complete fu cking idiot you should really take your console war elsewhere. We're talking about competitive CoD, hence esports in the title of the thread. Competitive CoD has been on Xbox since CoD 4, with a brief hiatus during Black Ops when MLG decided to hold its tournaments on PS3. The competitive community is established on xbox. Anyone who wanted to play competitive CoD bought an Xbox one when the consoles switched. Now they are forced to buy a PS4 if they want to keep playing. This is bad for the community, it's bad for the players, it's bad for literally everyone but Activision and Sony.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Aug 14, 2015 8:28:19 GMT -5
But let's face it, the very nature of competitive CoD is steeped in paying a shit ton of money. The games are annual and all support for last year's game is dropped by the time the next game comes out. The very fact that it jumped right over to next gen in the first place was ridiculous. It already forced players to get a next gen console at release. You can't go into competitive CoD and not expect to pay for it. It's not like CS or many MOBAs, which have a very very lower barrier to entry. CSGO came out what, 3 years ago? Cost like $15. Many MOBAs are F2P, or at the very least have a one time cost, Starcraft II came out 5 years ago.
So right off the bat CoD already costs $60 more than most games in the competitive scene for just one year. If you want to play competitive for more than one year you're already looking at $120 more than most games for two years. Since just CSGO came out the average competitive CoD player paid $180 for just the games, while CSGO players paid $15.
Then you factor in the fact Xbone cost $500 on release and they immediately latched on to next gen. And on all that it's painfully obvious why Activision jumped ship. Microsoft fucked up in the eyes of consumers with their press releases like "we have a console for that it's called an Xbox 360" and always online and the fact it cost $100 more than the PS4.
So yes, Activision is a shit Lord for what they did. But honestly what do you expect from Activision? They fucking suck. They always have, how you can honestly even think about getting into competitive CoD without paying out the ass is beyond me.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Aug 14, 2015 13:48:48 GMT -5
I believe that Call of Duty should pursue a $30-$45 yearly digital expansion that builds directly on the previous iteration.
As the series becomes more and more unpopular, the above strategy will become more attractive to Activision.
As stated by everyone else in this thread, Call of Duty's business model is not conducive to it being a serious competitive sport.
Ideally, Call of Duty should go the same route as the free to play games already mentioned (Dota, CS, LoL, TF2) where purely optional cosmetics are used to generate revenue as that is most conducive to a shared player base.
Even Capcom is realizing the value of the above: the next Street Fighter game will not have twenty annual iterations, but instead will introduce new characters that can be purchased with real money or with in-game currency, a la your MOBA of choice.
Honestly, a free to play Call of Duty with rotating load outs each week would be interesting, if only because the rotation would force the free players to adapt constantly. (Ex. something like where there is one free item in each tier each week, one AR, one sub, etc., and other items can be purchased with either USD or CoD nuggets. Oh, and, of course, cosmetics up the wazoo.)
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Aug 21, 2015 17:25:06 GMT -5
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Sept 3, 2015 17:24:34 GMT -5
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Post by lackingdamage on Sept 4, 2015 16:33:11 GMT -5
I believe that Call of Duty should pursue a $30-$45 yearly digital expansion that builds directly on the previous iteration. As the series becomes more and more unpopular, the above strategy will become more attractive to Activision. As stated by everyone else in this thread, Call of Duty's business model is not conducive to it being a serious competitive sport. Ideally, Call of Duty should go the same route as the free to play games already mentioned (Dota, CS, LoL, TF2) where purely optional cosmetics are used to generate revenue as that is most conducive to a shared player base. Even Capcom is realizing the value of the above: the next Street Fighter game will not have twenty annual iterations, but instead will introduce new characters that can be purchased with real money or with in-game currency, a la your MOBA of choice. Honestly, a free to play Call of Duty with rotating load outs each week would be interesting, if only because the rotation would force the free players to adapt constantly. (Ex. something like where there is one free item in each tier each week, one AR, one sub, etc., and other items can be purchased with either USD or CoD nuggets. Oh, and, of course, cosmetics up the wazoo.) $40 release with $30 expansion for 2 years or 3 years may also save AAA titles and allow for more freedom. CoD could also play around with the gameplay mechanics with a free release updating the gameplay mechanics every couple of months or weeks to be added to the full release. I was hoping CoD would go the MOBA class loadout route with specialists. Certain ones only get access to certain perks and weapons with certain killstreaks. As for E sports CoD needs to drop the yearly release if it wants to be taken seriously free to play version may be the answer to that issue with a full release being different game. Still CoD is not a competitive game due to design and business model. Enjoy watching competitive Hearthstone along with CS:GO over CoD.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Sept 4, 2015 17:56:17 GMT -5
As for E sports CoD needs to drop the yearly release if it wants to be taken seriously free to play version may be the answer to that issue with a full release being different game. That's actually a good idea. Activision could have a free to play multiplayer game and then paid campaign games (including Zombies and Extinction) that release annually per usual.
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Sept 24, 2015 10:59:23 GMT -5
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