wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Sept 4, 2015 18:25:46 GMT -5
hard1ine: I agree with most of your points, but not on LMG. IMHO LMG is already pretty powerful as is. Actually, I would suggest a small nerf to Thermal (which is most useful on LMGs): don't display the radar when zoomed in.
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banana
True Banana
Zoro > Law
Posts: 1,577
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Post by banana on Sept 4, 2015 20:54:52 GMT -5
Radar as in mini map?
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Sept 4, 2015 21:14:47 GMT -5
Hey at least the Executioner was good as CQC as it could 1 shot unlike the Haymaker which has worse TTKs than it's SMG/Raifoo peers even if every pellet hits at point blank.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Sept 5, 2015 1:31:30 GMT -5
Hey at least the Executioner was good as CQC as it could 1 shot unlike the Haymaker which has worse TTKs than it's SMG/Raifoo peers even if every pellet hits at point blank. The haymaker is weird in that it's mid range capabilities are suprising at times due to the no damage fall. They definitely need to increase the close range damage to 25 though. Also, LMGs are almost fine, except for the low ammo. Dingo should be 75 rounds and BRM should be 100 rounds. And ante up should have been 75 points to start plus 20% more points per streak plus care package rerolls.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Sept 5, 2015 10:05:30 GMT -5
I'd be happy if they just gave it at least ~13 per pellet within melee range.
Ante-up is probably the worst perk in game by far. Like who complained about Hardline being overpowered?
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banana
True Banana
Zoro > Law
Posts: 1,577
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Post by banana on Sept 5, 2015 10:49:12 GMT -5
I want at least 17 damage
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Post by kylet357 on Sept 5, 2015 11:08:26 GMT -5
I want at least 17 damage More like 17 pellets
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Sept 5, 2015 12:36:56 GMT -5
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banana
True Banana
Zoro > Law
Posts: 1,577
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Post by banana on Sept 5, 2015 14:33:40 GMT -5
You can see the mini map with thermal?
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Post by tflame on Sept 5, 2015 16:48:29 GMT -5
OHK's are touchy, frustrating, rage inducing. To the vast majority of players, there is a certain range that a OHK feels unfair. This is the problem with >12 damage values.
Imagine if you could guarantee that a shotgun could not 1 hit kill at a given range, but would never take more than 2 hits to kill. This is coming.
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Sept 5, 2015 16:59:54 GMT -5
You can see the mini map with thermal? Yeap, making LMG a great choice if you like to camp in SnD.
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asasa
True Bro
fuck
Posts: 4,255
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Post by asasa on Sept 5, 2015 17:15:15 GMT -5
You can see the mini map with thermal? Yeap, making LMG a great choice if you like to camp in SnD. Fffffffff... I hope they undo that change.
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Usagi
True Bro
Grin and Barrett
Posts: 1,674
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Post by Usagi on Sept 5, 2015 19:45:18 GMT -5
Black Ops 2, a game that took LMGs in the right direction. This a joke, right?
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Post by kylet357 on Sept 5, 2015 22:00:15 GMT -5
OHK's are touchy, frustrating, rage inducing. To the vast majority of players, there is a certain range that a OHK feels unfair. This is the problem with >12 damage values. Imagine if you could guarantee that a shotgun could not 1 hit kill at a given range, but would never take more than 2 hits to kill. This is coming. So basically, imagine a shotgun is good? I've said this before, but why are all of the other weapons allowed to be effective at basically any range except for shotguns? The SPAS-12 from MW2 was an amazing shotgun, and pump-action shotgun stats should be modeled after it. Black Ops 2, a game that took LMGs in the right direction. This a joke, right? imo, BO2 LMGs were fun to use. They were all fun and different. While the MW3 LMGs were good, they weren't as fun to use (besides thermal scoping them). Especially after they had their damages patched.
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Post by tflame on Sept 5, 2015 22:47:40 GMT -5
Shotguns are range limited because they are spread (can hit guys without precision aim) and can OHK instantly from the hip, or by ADS'ing with much faster ADS and rechamber times than sniper rifles.
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Post by kylet357 on Sept 5, 2015 23:59:25 GMT -5
Shotguns are range limited because they are spread (can hit guys without precision aim) and can OHK instantly from the hip, or by ADS'ing with much faster ADS and rechamber times than sniper rifles. I don't mind the limited range. I do mind that it's not possible to get a OHK at the edge of their range (like many past shotguns could). Also " can OHK instantly from the hip". In other words, it has a chance at getting a OHK from the hip. Depending on the game and what shotgun you're talking about, that chance can be pretty low. Even at point blank range. They're inconsistent weapons with low damage at range (or sometimes low damage overall), high spread unless you're ADS, with no ability to hit anything past their maximum range. Unlike sniper rifles, which can one hit kill you at any range (for the most part) and don't have any spread.
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Post by kylet357 on Sept 6, 2015 0:01:26 GMT -5
why are all of the other weapons allowed to be effective at basically any range except for shotguns? because people bitch about it. and theres no reason for them to cater to all the cod shotgun fanatics when they all buy the game anyway. CoD fanbase for you. Think snipers are fine if they can one hit kill at any range, but shotguns are OP if they can kill you in one hit at 400 units.
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Usagi
True Bro
Grin and Barrett
Posts: 1,674
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Post by Usagi on Sept 6, 2015 0:14:53 GMT -5
Plenty of people think snipers are OP
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Post by tflame on Sept 6, 2015 0:31:19 GMT -5
Shotguns are range limited because they are spread (can hit guys without precision aim) and can OHK instantly from the hip, or by ADS'ing with much faster ADS and rechamber times than sniper rifles. I don't mind the limited range. I do mind that it's not possible to get a OHK at the edge of their range (like many past shotguns could). Also " can OHK instantly from the hip". In other words, it has a chance at getting a OHK from the hip. Depending on the game and what shotgun you're talking about, that chance can be pretty low. Even at point blank range. They're inconsistent weapons with low damage at range (or sometimes low damage overall), high spread unless you're ADS, with no ability to hit anything past their maximum range. Unlike sniper rifles, which can one hit kill you at any range (for the most part) and don't have any spread. So you want a spread shotgun that can OHK at the edge of its range if you are ADS and perfectly accurate? That's not unreasonable. All the shotguns weren't in the Beta.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2015 1:34:26 GMT -5
Plenty of people think snipers are OP Plenty of people suck at video games.
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Post by kylet357 on Sept 6, 2015 2:25:47 GMT -5
I don't mind the limited range. I do mind that it's not possible to get a OHK at the edge of their range (like many past shotguns could). Also " can OHK instantly from the hip". In other words, it has a chance at getting a OHK from the hip. Depending on the game and what shotgun you're talking about, that chance can be pretty low. Even at point blank range. They're inconsistent weapons with low damage at range (or sometimes low damage overall), high spread unless you're ADS, with no ability to hit anything past their maximum range. Unlike sniper rifles, which can one hit kill you at any range (for the most part) and don't have any spread. So you want a spread shotgun that can OHK at the edge of its range if you are ADS and perfectly accurate? That's not unreasonable. All the shotguns weren't in the Beta. That can work. After looking at them, the shotguns in the CoD4: Black Ops mod look pretty damn good. Great range, decent spread, amazing ADS spread, and more pellets to make up for the lower damage (I'm not sure if the multipliers affect shotguns in the mod).
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Sept 6, 2015 9:24:28 GMT -5
Plenty of people think snipers are OP Plenty of people suck at video games. Including devs. I remember when they nerfed suppressed snipers in Ghosts I was pissed. That was literally the only joy I got out of that game. Oh those were the days suppressed sniping on Stonehenge in the Castle area, as the enemy has no clue that the guy behind him just died.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Sept 6, 2015 9:30:18 GMT -5
Remember DJ Vahn had a .25KD spread in BLOPS3 when he streamed (Constant 4-30 games).
So this is what happens. DJ Sucks, he only used the Razerback and rifles. He sucked with said rifles and SMGs so they can't be overpowered. KRM nerf incoming!
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Sept 6, 2015 12:44:06 GMT -5
I always assumed that the whole point of shotguns is to have a weapon class that focuses less on aiming perfectly and more on map management and movement skills. The exceptions to this are slug rounds, which emphasize aiming a little more in exchange for better range, and the haymaker, which seems to be more about controlling the recoil to get as many pellets per shot on the enemy as possible.
Not saying they shouldn't buff the KRM by increasing the 1HK potential range and tightening the spread and increase the haymaker's close range damage, just that aiming was never supposed to be the focus on shotguns.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2015 15:20:40 GMT -5
To pile onto that Call of Duty is a much more chaotic game. The opportunity cost to check every corner and look for a sniper/shotgunner is often too high to really justify doing much against. Even then nobody on the enemy team could be using a sniper rifle nor a shotgun in the first place. So many things can happen in the game that it's usually difficult to anticipate what happens. Call of Duty loves adding choice and top-down design into its game, yet that added complexity adds next to nothing in terms of depth. As a result we still have the same combat loop that constantly emphasizes trial and error and instinctual reflex over anything resembling methodical play.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Sept 6, 2015 15:56:09 GMT -5
Aren't snipers and shotgunners on the enemy team just free kills?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2015 16:40:43 GMT -5
Aren't snipers and shotgunners on the enemy team just free kills? Not when I run them, you noob
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Sept 6, 2015 18:04:37 GMT -5
I always assumed that the whole point of shotguns is to have a weapon class that focuses less on aiming perfectly and more on map management and movement skills. The exceptions to this are slug rounds, which emphasize aiming a little more in exchange for better range, and the haymaker, which seems to be more about controlling the recoil to get as many pellets per shot on the enemy as possible. Not saying they shouldn't buff the KRM by increasing the 1HK potential range and tightening the spread and increase the haymaker's close range damage, just that aiming was never supposed to be the focus on shotguns. It's all 3. Literally the only game I can think of where accuracy isn't a major component of shotguns is CoD. Most games have extremely predictable/tight spread and lower damage, which forces you to aim dead on for maximum effectiveness.
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Post by kylet357 on Sept 6, 2015 21:30:58 GMT -5
Most games have extremely predictable/tight spread and lower damage, which forces you to aim dead on for maximum effectiveness. Don't forget more range and larger pellet count.
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Post by kylet357 on Sept 7, 2015 8:29:11 GMT -5
noooooo 8ish pellets is pretty typical for tactical shooters It is? I would've thought it was more along the lines of 10 or more.
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