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Post by illram on Nov 10, 2015 14:26:50 GMT -5
Right, I mean it's a gun you use to sit and lockdown a spot, ideally. It's powerful, big mag, but don't try running around the map with it like an SMG or getting caught in a tight spot and needing a re-load.
If they keep nerfing it (and from the rough stats thread, it's not like most of them are that powerful anyway) they seem to be trying to just make it another assault rifle variant.
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Nov 10, 2015 14:33:57 GMT -5
How to fix the Gorgon: Get better
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Nov 10, 2015 14:37:37 GMT -5
Dredge is the bee's knees.
The Gorgon handles too slowly even with Quickdraw. It's great if you are tactical loitering and engaging at long distances but it's not that versatile.
Speaking of Sheiva, is it the same as in the beta? I haven't unlocked it yet. I was kind of hoping for a stealth buff for the release version.
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Post by illram on Nov 10, 2015 14:37:33 GMT -5
How to fix the Gorgon: Get better Right? I hear the slow "pop pop pop" sound I know "OK, don't run down that alley, flank that guy." Done. Get in close on a gorgon shooter and they're usually dead.
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Nov 10, 2015 14:44:37 GMT -5
How to fix the Gorgon: Get better Right? I hear the slow "pop pop pop" sound I know "OK, don't run down that alley, flank that guy." Done. Get in close on a gorgon shooter and they're usually dead. Nope. I'm gonna run down that alley and try to kill him because I'm a genius. Then I'm complaining to Vonderhaar because I keep running down that alley.
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Post by -3055- on Nov 10, 2015 15:11:27 GMT -5
ELO rapid fire stock dredge > reaper. I've outgunned it multiple times. Definitely getting a nerf or im selling my diamond shotguns. What's so special about ELO? Im a little bitch when it comes to irons. I can't use dredge irons, and ELO just straight up outclasses the red dot, unless the red dot has some secret stat buff when equipped.
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Post by -3055- on Nov 10, 2015 15:15:07 GMT -5
The gorgon close range still has better ttk than the brecci.
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Post by snes chalmers on Nov 10, 2015 21:38:56 GMT -5
Played around with the Dredge default class, pretty nice setup.
Though I think I'll roll with the BRM until I unlock the 48, as it's been working quite well for me.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Nov 10, 2015 22:28:07 GMT -5
The gorgon close range still has better ttk than the brecci. The obvious solution is to not buff the CheekiBrecci but to nerf the Gorgon.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Nov 10, 2015 22:51:48 GMT -5
Speaking of nerfing the gorgon, according to charlieintel treyarch has already said they have weapon patches in mind for guns based on feedback and named the gorgon specifically as an example. And thus starts the downward spiral where every decent gun that isn't an AR or SMG gets nerfed to uselessness. Every gorgon user is going to switch to other LMGs, especially the dredge, and if the haymaker gets nerfed like I suspect is going to happen then haymaker users will just switch to other shotguns, especially the Argus, and then people will demand that the Argus, Dredge, and other LMGs and Shotguns get nerfed, and so on...
BO3 is going to become as badly balanced as BO1 pretty gosh darn golly gee whiz fast.
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Post by -3055- on Nov 10, 2015 22:55:37 GMT -5
well i mean they did nerf the M8 and the razorback. So they might just nerf all of the super popular guns.
I don't mind them nerfing guns simply because of popularity. Even if it's not good, everyone picking 1 or 2 guns is just boring gameplay.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Nov 10, 2015 23:01:10 GMT -5
well i mean they did nerf the M8 and the razorback. So they might just nerf all of the super popular guns. I don't mind them nerfing guns simply because of popularity. Even if it's not good, everyone picking 1 or 2 guns is just boring gameplay. Except when these people demand nerfs SMGs and ARs it's almost always because they actually are OP. When they demand nerfs to LMGs, Shotguns, and Snipers it's because they are actually usable.
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Post by -3055- on Nov 11, 2015 1:29:04 GMT -5
because SMGs and ARs are generalist weapons. You know something is up when a gun like gorgon, which is traditionally only strong in lockdown areas, is commonplace in any map and any gamemode. Not saying it's OP, just saying it's reached a point where it's definitely up for discussion
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Post by lackingdamage on Nov 11, 2015 5:24:53 GMT -5
Only have some limited playtime with the LMGs but god gosh darn golly gee whiz that Dredge is nice. However I yet to get into the groove of using LMGs.
Gorgon sounds fun once you get close to people rather easy to kill them. Unless you're using the KRM more a coin toss Every weapon has sort of niche and feels decent apart from a couple. Key point to be making about the gorgon is map design does help it do quite well you can lock down an area. Don't mistake use for OP. Until I see everybody rolling the gorgon all the time every game even people who prestige.
Gorgon has been nerfed well now has more idle sway to the gun.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Nov 11, 2015 8:44:15 GMT -5
because SMGs and ARs are generalist weapons. You know something is up when a gun like gorgon, which is traditionally only strong in lockdown areas, is commonplace in any map and any gamemode. Not saying it's OP, just saying it's reached a point where it's definitely up for discussion That's not the point though. The CoD community is incapable of discussion. The CoD community "discussing" the Gorgon is issuing death threats to Vahn on Twitter. "Nerf ______________ or I'll ____________________ your wife and kids".
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 11, 2015 9:40:40 GMT -5
because SMGs and ARs are generalist weapons. You know something is up when a gun like gorgon, which is traditionally only strong in lockdown areas, is commonplace in any map and any gamemode. Not saying it's OP, just saying it's reached a point where it's definitely up for discussion That's not the point though. The CoD community is incapable of discussion. The CoD community "discussing" the Gorgon is issuing death threats to Vahn on Twitter. "Nerf ______________ or I'll ____________________ your wife and kids". Whether a gun is commonplace or rarely used, is irrelevant to the discussion. The game has barely been out five days. There is no conceivable way ANYONE (even Treyarch) can get a good handle of on what is going on. Yeah, Treyarch can see internal stats and maybe see people are using the Gorgon more than the other LMGs. But that in and by itself says nothing. The general playing population might just be using it more because it's high damage and low recoil. More people using it initially, should be expected. Fvck, people might just be using it more, because the name SOUNDS cool. This is CoD. A player population that includes more retards per capita than any other game out there. I would like to think the people at Treyarch are smarter than that, and they aren't expecting the player population to be using each gun equally. Come on. When you first start out, your time is limited. People's use of guns isn't due to logical or smart decision making. It's mostly based on feel, ease of use and availability. But yet.... there we are. Treyarch has already nerfed the Gorgon?
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Nov 11, 2015 10:17:47 GMT -5
How much more idle sway are we talking about? Unless it's a drastic amount I'm fine with that being the Gorgon's only nerf.
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 11, 2015 10:49:47 GMT -5
How much more idle sway are we talking about? Unless it's a drastic amount I'm fine with that being the Gorgon's only nerf. Perhaps, but that is missing the big picture at hand. Which is, ....why the hell is Treyarch even putting any employees on researching and fixing such a subtle 'fix', when the patch notes that came out, failed to address any of these issues with the game: I don't see anything in the patch notes, about addressing - connection issues - being kicked offline while waiting in parties or lobbies - friend invites not working - group party functions being inconsistent and failing (see #2) - Weird messages about being disconnected - Overall more lag when grouped up with people (more than what should be expected upon a release, compared to prior games) - Matchmaking royally screw up and start lobbies with unbalanced teams (ig, 7 v 5, 9 v 3, etc..) - Matching invite 13 people into a 12 person lobby, and then get stuck. Typically booting people offline.
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Post by lackingdamage on Nov 11, 2015 11:29:35 GMT -5
How much more idle sway are we talking about? Unless it's a drastic amount I'm fine with that being the Gorgon's only nerf. About twice the size BRM gets with twice the speed. Constant so if you drop your aim and go to aim again still idling around. Not used the Gorgon much at all but when I did notice the increase idle right off the bat. BRM also had idle sway swear I had none before, Dingo has some but not used it at all. Have to wait for one of the LMG pros to appear could be wrong always been in place.
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wings
True Bro
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Post by wings on Nov 11, 2015 13:16:51 GMT -5
I don't mind them nerfing guns simply because of popularity. Even if it's not good, everyone picking 1 or 2 guns is just boring gameplay. That's what Gun Game is for. How many shooters have a wide variety of top tier weapons? Is it not possible that a significant amount of the playerbase are not used to a variety of different weapon types being used significantly? It's pretty hard to make LMGs overpowered considering SMGs and ARs have decent 3-4hK ranges, last time I looked anyway.
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Will
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K/D below 1.0
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Post by Will on Nov 13, 2015 10:14:56 GMT -5
So apparently LMGs have the same 95% movement speed as ARs.... and thus everyone is raging and demands they get nerfed. HOW DARE ANYBODY USE A WEAPON THAT IS NOT AN AR OR SMG WITH SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!! www.reddit.com/r/CoDCompetitive/comments/3sm0tv/a_statistical_perspective_on_competitive_bansnerfs/It seems 95% is the minimum because it's required to clear gaps for chaining together wall runs, I guess that's how they designed the maps. Why not just go to "all weapons = 100% speed" like Battlefield? You can still use movement as a balancing method via turn speed, ADS move speed, etc.
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 13, 2015 11:15:08 GMT -5
lol
I liked this line
"LMGs are missing one of thier biggest drawbacks"
How does one 'miss' a drawback?
not a little biased are we?
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Nov 13, 2015 11:22:23 GMT -5
So apparently LMGs have the same 95% movement speed as ARs.... and thus everyone is raging and demands they get nerfed. HOW DARE ANYBODY USE A WEAPON THAT IS NOT AN AR OR SMG WITH SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!! www.reddit.com/r/CoDCompetitive/comments/3sm0tv/a_statistical_perspective_on_competitive_bansnerfs/It seems 95% is the minimum because it's required to clear gaps for chaining together wall runs, I guess that's how they designed the maps. Why not just go to "all weapons = 100% speed" like Battlefield? You can still use movement as a balancing method via turn speed, ADS move speed, etc. Half of the LMGs don't even have TTK advantages except in long range. I kinda understand the complaints about the dredge and gorgon, but think they are mostly exaggerated. LMGs would be all be perfectly fine if they: - increased the gorgon's recoil by around 7-10% so that it's inferior TTK when missing 1 or 2 shots comes into play more - decreased the dredge's RoF by 10% and increased the burst delay slightly so that it gets a few less 1 burst kills and has more punishment for not killing in 1 burst - don't do anything to the BRM or Dingo because those LMGs already have plenty of downsides Even Vahn thinks that the complaints about LMGs are exaggerated based on the tweet where he said the gorgon was doing above average but not by much. If this were a shotgun or sniper I'd be worried, but based on all the buffs LMGs got in BO2 and the fact that Vahn has already shown his scepticism towards the LMG complaints, I'd say that his team is probably going to do minor nerf on LMGs rather than anything big. And to be fair to driftor, movement speed used to always be one of the notable drawbacks to an LMG. That's not really a biased statement. The more biased statement would be listing the downsides of an LMG and not having sprintout time on that list, unless LMGs actually have the same sprintout times as ARs. Driftor has the wrong idea about the movement speed nerf. Again, the only nerfs that are needed are an accuracy nerf to the gorgon and a firerate and burst delay nerf for the dredge.
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banana
True Banana
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Post by banana on Nov 13, 2015 11:33:44 GMT -5
So apparently LMGs have the same 95% movement speed as ARs.... and thus everyone is raging and demands they get nerfed. HOW DARE ANYBODY USE A WEAPON THAT IS NOT AN AR OR SMG WITH SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!! www.reddit.com/r/CoDCompetitive/comments/3sm0tv/a_statistical_perspective_on_competitive_bansnerfs/It seems 95% is the minimum because it's required to clear gaps for chaining together wall runs, I guess that's how they designed the maps. Why not just go to "all weapons = 100% speed" like Battlefield? You can still use movement as a balancing method via turn speed, ADS move speed, etc. Everyone go upvote my reddit comment, I'm thisisredditnigga lol
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Nov 13, 2015 11:57:24 GMT -5
I upvoted your comment, but I somewhat disagree with your post. The gorgon could use maybe a rework where it gets it's ADS time reduced to 450ms, but have its accuracy reduced a little (not a huge amount, just a little) so that the fact that the inferior TTK when you miss one or two shots comes into play a little more.
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 13, 2015 12:30:32 GMT -5
I upvoted your comment, but I somewhat disagree with your post. The gorgon could use maybe a rework where it gets it's ADS time reduced to 450ms, but have its accuracy reduced a little (not a huge amount, just a little) so that the fact that the inferior TTK when you miss one or two shots comes into play a little more. The Gorgon already has a huge ADS penalty and it's side strafing is just god awful slow. SMG users can literally hop or skip right past it's side strafe abilities. People also seem forget too, that it takes like 3 minutes to reload the gun, the longest reload cycle in the game. This gun needs no nerfing, at all.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Nov 13, 2015 12:33:44 GMT -5
That's why I suggested buffing the ADS speed but slightly increasing the recoil rather than just a straight up nerf.
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Post by illram on Nov 13, 2015 13:04:38 GMT -5
Yeah LMG's don't need any nerfing. Really nothing I have seen needs nerfing but whatever, this is treyarch, you know they are going to nerf all the guns down to an ambiguous unoffensive beige paste of similarity.
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 13, 2015 13:52:47 GMT -5
Yeah LMG's don't need any nerfing. Really nothing I have seen needs nerfing but whatever, this is treyarch, you know they are going to nerf all the guns down to an ambiguous unoffensive beige paste of similarity. I wonder how much less crap Treyarch would take, if the pro/'bro' community would just shut the fvck up, and play the game for a few weeks. I've seen a few boards out there, and it's just nuts. With how much talk is already going on (like since day 1), about banning this, banning that, nerfing this, nerfing that, etc... Give it a rest. For 99.9% of the supposed 'pros' out there, what they want or feel is irrelevant. None of them will ever see the light of day in regards to actual meaningful Tourney play. Not saying they are bad players, just that they aren't going anywhere in CoD. Other than a few dozen of the same players every year, everyone else is just garbage filler to provide cannon-fodder, filler and cash for the MLG organizations and circuit. ie, make E-Gaming look like real a real sport and competition.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 13, 2015 15:13:51 GMT -5
I pretty much used the LMGs exclusively until I unlocked the argus in prestige 1. The movement system here is actually really beneficial to LMGs and the SnD bomb locations reward sightline lockdowns over bum rush tactics. I loved the dingo so much in beta that I was really pumped to check out the gorgon and dredge. Gorgon quickly became my most used gun. It feels like a slightly worse MW2 stopping power LMG. High praise...I think. I got really nervous when I heard they were nerfing it.
Thankfully the magazine nerf really didn't do anything to it. In SnD you can still easily kill multiple people. I mean...you only need two shots. I tried it out solo in ground war and while you need to reload it a bit more often, I way able to top my team on the big WWII glitchy map by locking down the right side.
The dredge on the other hand... I see no reason to use any AR when the dredge is on the table.
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