2 bo3 questions

[wagz86]

Does FMJ increase bullet pen in an already high penetration gun? Or is a high pen gun already maxed out?

Also. I've seen the stats that say that the recon and the verix supersede the grip when it comes to recoil control. Is it the same case with the thermal or no? If no. Then does a thermal and grip combo stack for recoil reductions?

[imrlybord7]

FMJ always improves penetration. It doesn't do much when you're shooting perpendicular to the surface, but it helps a lot if you're shooting at an acute angle.

Grip removes the benefit of the Recon/Varix, making your recoil worse. Grip does nothing at all if you're using Thermal. Grip can only be stacked with the BOA.

[JustABitAgroed]

Jun 8, 2016 1:00:16 GMT -5 imrlybord7 said:

FMJ always improves penetration. It doesn't do much when you're shooting perpendicular to the surface, but it helps a lot if you're shooting at an acute angle.

Grip removes the benefit of the Recon/Varix, making your recoil worse. Grip does nothing at all if you're using Thermal. Grip can only be stacked with the BOA.

To clarify that a little, the Grip will be rendered completely useless by the Thermal sight if the two are attached concurrently because of a similar confliction to what is present in Varix+Grip or RECON+Grip. Although, the Grip could still potentially have an effect (greatly reduced from what it normally does) from the MinMag reduction. Considering that it's affected by (adsRecoil)ReductionRate instead of just Reduction, it may not have the same confliction issues. I don't know if that is indeed the case though, and I doubt we have data one way or the other.

Also, please read the rules before posting.

[wagz86]

Sorry about that. I'm new. My mistake won't happen again.

[Marvel4]

FMJ does not change penetrateType, it just increases penetration damage. For example, weapons with FMJ in Modern Warfare 2 have a penetrateMultiplier of 2.

The adsRecoilReduction values of an attachment replace a weapon's values (shown by the "=" on the spreadsheet), unlike many other variables that multiply.

[mannon]

To clarify shooting through a wall at a steeper angle is exactly the same as shooting through a thicker wall. The hitscan simply has to go through more geometry between you and your target.

I forget what the exact calculations were for penetration damage, but I do recall that there is a small initial drop in damage even when shooting through the thinnest of materials. Beyond that damage reduction depends upon the material, penetration value, and the thickness of the material being penetrated.

In other words FMJ is great for shooting through thin walls at steeper angles and for shooting through thicker walls. Thing is there aren't that many thicker walls that aren't also harder materials, but if you can find some the effect is the same.

Personally I don't do a lot of wallbangin so I usually don't bother. BO3 is a lot more mobile than MW2 was. Back in MW2 I used FMJ a lot more to shoot through things used for cover... both my enemy's as well as my own. In fact using FMJ to shoot through your own cover or to back around a corner and shoot through it can be a useful tactic since they are unlikely to be using FMJ also. There's also an advantage if you have a good idea where they are located but can visually obscure yourself. In other words if you're the one moving behind something and they are stationary it's easier for you to track and hit them than for them to track and hit you.

But like I said, that was a lot more prevalent in MW2. There were a lot more times where you'd be shooting it out down a hallway hiding behind trashcans or shooting it out with a guy in a window, ect. In BO3 it feels like half of the time one or both players are up on a wall or flying through the air and the other half is at nipple touch range, again with no cover really involved. I do use cover when I can, but usually it's in passing since hanging out in any one place usually gets you shanked from behind by that guy sliding around the map with a wrench. (Maybe I should try that... but I generally despise melee in CoD. I want to shoot people, not stab or bash them. For that Dark Souls or Chivalry, ect... does it much much better.)

[PSIII]

FMJ was the primary attachment in MW2,excluding the silencer. By how they designed walls and penetration, you could shoot through damn near anything and get easy kills. Loved shooting at suckers through multiple walls in Skidrow or that thick wall between the inside and outside in Terminal.

Does anybody here use FMJ in the recent games? I don't personally. Just not worth it.

[mannon]

It was super useful in MW2 since you had loads of places with really thin cover as well as lots of places where people would shoot at you from cover such as from a window or something. There was a much slower pace of movement and more use of cover.

Also if you wanted to increase your lethality there weren't really any other options other than rapid fire in the way of attachments. The primary way you increased lethality was SP, but that was a perk. RF worked for some guns, though I usually avoided it since it affected recoil so much. Some weapons also have quirks with the holo... There were no long barrels or high caliber, and grip was only available on LMGs and shotguns.



As for BO3 I usually don't use FMJ. You're just about spoiled for choice in BO between high caliber, long barrel, grip, rapid fire, and fmj it kinda waters down fmj into a niche attachment that will generally be outperformed by another build on the average. On top of that there is a lot more combat out in the open but moving at high speed so you're fighting enemies behind cover less often on average. Personally I don't ever go FMJ unless I intend to specifically do some wallbangin'. That's not to say it isn't good for that... if you're wallbangin' accept no substitutes. It just seems like less of a thing, to me.

Map design is also a part of it. Between the new movement system and the BO style maps, not to mention things like vision pulse, I don't think posting up in a static position for more than a few kills is generally a good idea in BO3, where as I would sometimes go an entire game in only one or two spots in MW2 if I was in a campy mood... though there are exceptions to that I still find I'm rarely trading gunfire through windows or even if I am it's usually gigantic windows that don't offer much cover rather than small ones.

Not that you can't build a class around it. But I'd find it difficult to justify actually using it even half the time... again, with some exceptions. For example if you were playing a nuketown only gamemode then you could punish house campers with FMJ or counter snipe the bedrooms with it.

[lustindarkness]

I have a "shoot it down!" class with the usual perks and Black Cell and a BRM+ FMJ+ Extended mags. I have used it in Nuketown, and boy it can wall bang.