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Post by Pegasus Actual on Nov 28, 2016 19:22:28 GMT -5
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Nov 29, 2016 6:06:19 GMT -5
I don't agree to be honest. Tone is strong in a 1 v 1. But 2 tones will not win from 1 tone and 1 ion for example. Or one legion from the front and a ronin from the side.
Her core might need a tweak, agreed. But appart from that, I can see other titans do a lot of work. I feel that players need to realize this is no Titanfall 1, tone is simply the master of titanfall 1 titan vs titan play (as in keep alive as long as possible and poke and stomp). A lot of the new titans are not build to survive, they are build to dish out rediculous damage before dying. And once you get into that mindset, I really start to love the balance.
Where did frothy declare tone OP btw? He said tone and ion share S tier. And that the rest of the titans are just slightly behind. Unless I missed some memo.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 29, 2016 16:30:24 GMT -5
Frothy declared Tone as OP repeatedly in his twitch streams, so much so that he does not even pick Tone any more.
As I stated earlier, the main reason is Tone's ability to chain cores. He said that as soon as Tone shoots all of its salvos (say to the sky) and resume normal fighting, the core meter restarts, and after that salvo hits will work towards filling the next core meter. If you are a great Tone player, most of the salvos will hit and that's a lot of meter refill!
Tone's core is the only one that can do this, namely score hit AFTER core is "technically" considered as finished. It might not be a big deal if Northstar has such chaining instead (might even be a good idea for buffing), but not Tone, which already has a very formidable core even without chaining.
In Pub play this is probably not obvious because 1) most players don't know they can do it, and 2) it is not a super easy thing to pull off. However I do believe that at the higher level of competition Tone is OP primarily for this reason.
I was trying to make this work last night but in the heat of battle I could not effectively do it or too preoccupied to notice. Next time I will try it in private bounty hunt to see.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Nov 29, 2016 17:09:05 GMT -5
So it's not so much that tone is OP as it is that Tone's core is OP. I'd buy that. Kinda hope I can try chaining it some for the cheap lulz before they nerf it. ;3
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 29, 2016 17:31:00 GMT -5
Except for the weakness of CQC, Tone is just very solid in all department. And with the best core on top of that is just too much love from the developer ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) . It's interesting to note though that Frothy said during the tech test the devs and QA at respawn were surprised by his method of shooting up. Sounds like they designed the core mainly for direct shooting at the opponent and that's probably why they overlooked the OP aspect of chaining? Besides chaining (which probably will get removed), Tone's core is also the only one that can be used behind concealed position (by shooting all the salvos up to the sky) and then come our for aiming, so she won't risk exposing herself to attacks while using the core. As qupie pointed out, Tone is not without weaknesses of course. As a pretty bad Tone player, to me the most formidable opponent is an expert Ronin that can use Phase Dash to get close very quickly. Once a Ronin is within the melee range, Particle Wall becomes useless, and all weapons are too slow to deal effective damage. Ronin core's main issue is that if the sword core deals the killing blow, the Titan explosion can take out ~2000 health (as claimed by Frothy). However, the way to get around that is to sword core a Titan to doomed state, then just execution during which she would be immune to any damage.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Nov 29, 2016 17:56:16 GMT -5
Can you do an execution during sword core? I thought you kinda couldn't, for some reason...
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 29, 2016 19:02:10 GMT -5
Can you do an execution during sword core? I thought you kinda couldn't, for some reason... No you can't. But you can wait until sword core expires and then melee. Basically, the key here is to take a break after dooming a Titan, maybe phase shift or attack another target.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 29, 2016 22:01:59 GMT -5
Titan changes from the latest patch: NEW TITAN KITS BUFFS & NERFS
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 29, 2016 22:04:26 GMT -5
Translation: 1) Tone got nerfed, probably ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) 2) Northstar's Flight Core got buffed, probably ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) 3) Viper Thruster is buffed to also apply to hover; 4) Ronin is now an even better counter to Tone; 5) Fast Titans got a sorta secret buff from Overcore buff: Ronins and Northstars will most likely go with Overcore, Tones and Ions can choose either to have on par speed as Ronin/Northstar or faster core, Legions and Scorchs are unfortunately the victims here because they can't afford to go without dash;
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Will
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Post by Will on Nov 30, 2016 3:02:15 GMT -5
Did they cut LTS matches from 4-to-win to 3-to-win? My last two games ended after 3 wins...
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 30, 2016 3:35:18 GMT -5
This looks insane:
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Post by trizzydizzy on Nov 30, 2016 7:52:15 GMT -5
Did they cut LTS matches from 4-to-win to 3-to-win? My last two games ended after 3 wins... Can confirm it is now first to 3 wins. Personally I like it. Half time is after the second round now. I think the best reason is that it lessens the likelihood of a leaver in the late game. I only ever see late joins in the first and second round. Before that could mean you were down a man after the third round and stayed that way. Now being fewer rounds, you are less impacted by a leaver or lessen the chance of a leaver.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Nov 30, 2016 10:44:52 GMT -5
Hate the LTS change. Best of 7 in an even matchup had a lot of counterpicks and differing strategies. Best of 5 just feels like it goes nowhere and ends abruptly.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 30, 2016 10:49:09 GMT -5
Best of 5 sounds like a compromise to players who play mixed tape solo that hate to got pwned by parties. If that's the case, they should at least keep the LTS playlist at best of 7.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 30, 2016 11:52:11 GMT -5
Post patch Tone impressions from a G10 LTS Tone player:
https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfall/comments/5foy9k/tone_patch_change_thoughts_from_someone_whos/
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 30, 2016 15:19:38 GMT -5
On the Northstar core front: so far the player impression has been shorter duration (so less time as enemy Titan target practice) and better damage output (could be faster rocket traveling time and/or less spread).
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 1, 2016 12:59:13 GMT -5
Finally put in some play time last night post patch, balance impressions with that + watching some twitch streaming: The good: 1) Tone now has a hard counter - Ronin. Almost all of Tone's strengths can be neutralized by Ronin: 1) mid / long range DPS - Ronin does not engage in this range; 2) Particle Wall - Ronin can easily get through with regular dash + phase dash; 3) Tracker Rockets - Phase Shift removes trackers; 4) Pulse - too slow for fast moving Ronin. On top of that, Tone's CQC biggest weakness happens to be Ronin's great strength: Arc Wave to freeze opponent, bigger melee damage, Phase Shift to avoid hits, and better agility; 2) With the option of having 2 Power Shots, Legion is no longer one dimensional. Also, looks like Legion got some major buff; 3) Northstar got double buff on Flight Core and Viper Thruster (I don't have Threat Optics unlocked and can't find any footage on how it looks, so no idea whether it is useful. But I guess it is hard to compete with Viper Thrusters); 4) Ion & Tone seem to be on par at where they were. The new kit is not that interesting, and the Tone nerf is not really noticeable. Consider this a good thing because they are already top tier; The bad: 1) Scorch did not get any love. The new kit is probably the most pointless of all, and Scorch can't benefit from the Overcore buff at all. A no-dash Titan that needs to get close to opponents to do damage, can't afford to not pick extra dash; 2) Ronin Phase Reflex + Nuclear Ejection is a bad combo to have in the game; 3) Last but not the least, best of 5 LTS is a really bad idea, just like Amped Hardpoint. The dev who came up with these ideas should be sent to the principal's office...
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 1, 2016 13:43:18 GMT -5
Legion - Hidden Compartments in action: It's hilarious that after the Legion blew the two enemy titans into the water, she went forward to check what the hell happened...
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 1, 2016 15:42:13 GMT -5
Yesterday I overheard frothyomen talking about liking "Zero Point Tripwire" on Ion. He said that if you can manage to throw the tripwire at an enemy Titan, it will do a lot of damage. I tried it last night but did not have any success, I guess I'll have to experiment it on Bounty Hunt Titans. Might be a good way to deal with rushing Ronins...
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 1, 2016 19:43:40 GMT -5
Double post on post-patch changes, with focus on Titan. From the Q&A tab of the Google sheet in the "Weapon stats" thread:
-- Salvo Core does 20 less damage per rocket; -- Flight Core does 50 more damage per rocket, but also seems to last 2 seconds less for some reason; -- Predator Cannon does a little less (literally 10-8) damage;
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Dec 2, 2016 5:38:43 GMT -5
Ronin phase reflex + nuke is not that great at all. I used it a bit and opponents pick up on it real quick and avoid it.
nuke is cheap either way imho, and I personally never used it. But phase reflex does not really make it better/worse
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Dec 2, 2016 6:07:44 GMT -5
-- Flight Core does 50 more damage per rocket, but also seems to last 2 seconds less for some reason; Because those are the two seconds where you finish dying.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Dec 2, 2016 6:28:30 GMT -5
Has anybody got some experience with the flight core post buff? I suck at northstar, and often don't even get to the point of earning my core. I am going to run overcore on him for a while to see if that helps and see how the core is post buff.
Also, if you guys didn't know. Adding a third dash on a stryder class slows down its recharge time.... Which is completely rediculous but still a thing. Might be a bug a simple bug I don't know. Anyhow, for now I am using double smoke on ronin and overcore on northstar.
1 dash recharges in 6 seconds 2 dashes recharge in 12 (6 seconds per dash) 3 dashes recharge in 24 seconds (8 seconds per dash)
edit: source https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfall/comments/5g0n48/psa_turbo_engineestra_dash_makes_dashes_take/
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 2, 2016 6:49:47 GMT -5
Based on my quick and dirty test in Bounty Hunt, Tone can still have damages from Salvo Core contribute to the next core build up.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Dec 2, 2016 7:11:00 GMT -5
does that only work if you fire it strait up? As in the rockets land when the core meter is already on 0?
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Dec 2, 2016 7:50:42 GMT -5
Has anybody got some experience with the flight core post buff? I suck at northstar, and often don't even get to the point of earning my core. I am going to run overcore on him for a while to see if that helps and see how the core is post buff. It's better. I'm running Viper Thrusters for now, and you can kind of jump on people a little bit with it. Generally I don't like popping it against a Titan that is aware of me, aside from Scorch who doesn't seem to deal with it all that well. This is kind of the best case scenario for it, find a fat Titan, get a tether and cluster down as you pop your core: xboxdvr.com/gamer/Pegasus%20Actual/video/24126272If he was any good I would have probably taken like double the damage though ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/sad.png) But still, can't complain *too* much about bumrushing a full health Legion in a Northstar and coming out on top.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Dec 2, 2016 7:57:01 GMT -5
Yeah that looks pretty decent tbh. You are in a really close fight against a legion and still come out on top. I am going to screw around with this one! Do you actually use the hoover ability as well in LTS? I always forget I even have it...
Recomendations for the kit? Overcore?
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Dec 2, 2016 7:57:35 GMT -5
Based on my quick and dirty test in Bounty Hunt, Tone can still have damages from Salvo Core contribute to the next core build up. How did you test this? Because https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfall/comments/5feo7k/stop_spreading_the_myth_that_salvo_core_charges/ Are you aware that taking damage charges your core?
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Post by trizzydizzy on Dec 2, 2016 8:42:43 GMT -5
I pretty much only play Northstar and I definitely appreciate the changes, all for the better. I seem to be able to finish off two half/quarter health Titans if they are close enough to each other now. Disclaimer, I only use Viper Thrusters too.
The Viper Thrusters affecting hover was nice, but not too game changing. There's really only a few times I find it useful. Particularly for the first shot of a match (dash, dash, hover , shoot out of the gate). There's some shortcuts (dry dock) that I can make it up faster for a sneakier flank too.
Anyways, here's some interesting ways I've found to use Flight-core. Since hover is faster, I suppose you could use it now too, but the rocket barrage is often necessary to be a threat.
*fly over particle walls *fly over Scorch's combo *fly over a Laser Core *fly over or kite Ronin's gank (you can't fly high if you're slowed though) *get off the ground to avoid another Flight Core's damage *run from a fight, charging your boosts (if you can use LOS) *speed up to catch a flank (preferably using LOS to not be seen) *run from a nuclear eject if out of dashes
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 3, 2016 18:08:13 GMT -5
Based on my quick and dirty test in Bounty Hunt, Tone can still have damages from Salvo Core contribute to the next core build up. How did you test this? Because https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfall/comments/5feo7k/stop_spreading_the_myth_that_salvo_core_charges/ Are you aware that taking damage charges your core? Interesting, I thought my meter charged all the way to 20-30% range. Now I think of it, it is probably overcore ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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