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Post by kylet357 on Nov 17, 2017 4:23:48 GMT -5
Ok, I've updated the graphs for shotguns to make them more clear. One important thing to note: the graphs show the maximum damage that a shotgun could deal at any given range. Since they fire multiple pellets, it is not a guarantee that they will deal max damage every time. Some pellets are likely to miss, especially the further away you get from your target. Did this update on android as well? I couldn't tell the difference between the Trench Gun and M30. |
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Post by quickbuck on Nov 17, 2017 4:54:06 GMT -5
Shotgun damages/ranges would be clearer expressed as number of pellets required to kill over range. That's a much more credible view of the probability of one shotting or two shotting.
Also spread numbers to know whether ads is worth the extra time over steady aim.
The graphs are improved on android but stats are still incorrect: all of them say 2 damage except the M30 which says 10 (which can't be correct either if the graph is right).
Also are you sure about the reload and firespeeds? They don't seem true to me.
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Post by quickbuck on Nov 17, 2017 4:57:32 GMT -5
and the damage drops in the stats don't correlate with the graphs.
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JustABitAgroed
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Post by JustABitAgroed on Nov 17, 2017 5:47:16 GMT -5
Could be base damage. Are pellets hit seeming to matter a lot?
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Post by lustindarkness on Nov 17, 2017 9:37:41 GMT -5
I forgot to email you. Even with new update, the compare weapons still crashes if I try to change weapons. Also, the basic training that are unlocked after you prestige the divisions are missing. Please check to make sure you have v1.3.1 of the app. I haven't received any crash logs for this version yet. If yours is still crashing, it is possible you are on a different version. If you're fully updated and still having issues, please email me your device type & android version. Also, basic trainings that come after division prestige have now been added for both iOS and Android. Thx There was another update available this morning, no crashes with the compared guns. I'll try to play around with it when I can to test it more. |
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Post by brassmonkeigh on Nov 17, 2017 9:37:45 GMT -5
Quick question BM: what's the stopwatch on the zoomed-out stat page for each weapon? Time to kill at 1 meter |
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Post by brassmonkeigh on Nov 17, 2017 9:39:44 GMT -5
There was another update available this morning, no crashes with the compared guns. I'll try to play around with it when I can to test it more. Awesome! Hopefully this one did the trick for you. I still have a few more optimizations to make, but from the feedback so far it looks like this has solved most of the remaining issues. |
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Post by brassmonkeigh on Nov 17, 2017 9:44:51 GMT -5
and the damage drops in the stats don't correlate with the graphs. The numbers displayed in the stats page come from the same array used to draw the graph, so they match exactly. However, if you tell me why you feel they do not match I can help. |
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Post by brassmonkeigh on Nov 17, 2017 9:55:36 GMT -5
Shotgun damages/ranges would be clearer expressed as number of pellets required to kill over range. That's a much more credible view of the probability of one shotting or two shotting. Also spread numbers to know whether ads is worth the extra time over steady aim. The graphs are improved on android but stats are still incorrect: all of them say 2 damage except the M30 which says 10 (which can't be correct either if the graph is right). Also are you sure about the reload and firespeeds? They don't seem true to me. That is a neat way of expressing the data for shotguns. I'll have to play around with ways of expressing this because after the first or 2nd damage drop all of them would require more pellets to kill than they fire. Also, there is a base damage + pellet damage, so you could actually kill at longer ranges with fewer pellets than closer range if the pellets came from two different trigger pulls. I can add spread #s The graphs are correct. 2 and 10 are the individual pellet damages. The graphs show the max damage per trigger pull. Reload speed is a single variable. It is converted from milliseconds to seconds when displayed in the app. Fire speed adds in rechamber time for weapons that have one. Other than that, everything is direct from game code. |
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Post by quickbuck on Nov 17, 2017 11:44:30 GMT -5
Thanks. Didn't know about base damage (haven't played last three cods, maybe it's a new mechanic, or maybe I forgot about it) what is the base damage then please? And is it static (eg the same as long as at least one pellet hits regardless of distance?)
Also, do you know what incediary shells do please? I like them. But hard to know from playing only if they are powerful enough to be worth losing the speed advantages of airborne.
thanks
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banana
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Post by banana on Nov 17, 2017 12:43:55 GMT -5
Shotgun damages/ranges would be clearer expressed as number of pellets required to kill over range. That's a much more credible view of the probability of one shotting or two shotting. Also spread numbers to know whether ads is worth the extra time over steady aim. The graphs are improved on android but stats are still incorrect: all of them say 2 damage except the M30 which says 10 (which can't be correct either if the graph is right). Also are you sure about the reload and firespeeds? They don't seem true to me. i don't have the app but if he does that, then how many pelles the shotgun shoots should be on the graph as well. |
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JustABitAgroed
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Post by JustABitAgroed on Nov 17, 2017 14:12:26 GMT -5
Shotgun damages/ranges would be clearer expressed as number of pellets required to kill over range. That's a much more credible view of the probability of one shotting or two shotting. Also spread numbers to know whether ads is worth the extra time over steady aim. The graphs are improved on android but stats are still incorrect: all of them say 2 damage except the M30 which says 10 (which can't be correct either if the graph is right). Also are you sure about the reload and firespeeds? They don't seem true to me. The graphs are correct. 2 and 10 are the individual pellet damages. The graphs show the max damage per trigger pull. If that's true then is there base damage in this game, or do the shotguns have more than the listed 8 pellets each? |
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JustABitAgroed
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Post by JustABitAgroed on Nov 17, 2017 14:13:37 GMT -5
Shotgun damages/ranges would be clearer expressed as number of pellets required to kill over range. That's a much more credible view of the probability of one shotting or two shotting. Also spread numbers to know whether ads is worth the extra time over steady aim. The graphs are improved on android but stats are still incorrect: all of them say 2 damage except the M30 which says 10 (which can't be correct either if the graph is right). Also are you sure about the reload and firespeeds? They don't seem true to me. i don't have the app but if he does that, then how many pelles the shotgun shoots should be on the graph as well. It is in the stats for each weapon. |
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Post by brassmonkeigh on Nov 17, 2017 15:24:40 GMT -5
The graphs are correct. 2 and 10 are the individual pellet damages. The graphs show the max damage per trigger pull. If that's true then is there base damage in this game, or do the shotguns have more than the listed 8 pellets each? There is a base damage. 8 pellets are fired by each gun. The first pellet to make contact with a target deals the base + pellet damage. Each additional pellet deals only the pellet damage. This gives shotguns a more consistent feel, especially when hip firing. |
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Post by brassmonkeigh on Nov 17, 2017 15:25:57 GMT -5
how many pelles the shotgun shoots should be on the graph as well. The number of pellets are on the stats tab in the weapon details. |
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JustABitAgroed
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Post by JustABitAgroed on Nov 17, 2017 18:16:13 GMT -5
If that's true then is there base damage in this game, or do the shotguns have more than the listed 8 pellets each? There is a base damage. 8 pellets are fired by each gun. The first pellet to make contact with a target deals the base + pellet damage. Each additional pellet deals only the pellet damage. This gives shotguns a more consistent feel, especially when hip firing. If there's base damage then that's definitely something that should be added to the shotgun stat page. |
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Usagi
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Post by Usagi on Nov 17, 2017 18:20:06 GMT -5
I'm surprised they kept that mechanic from BO3. I was hoping they would since it's a great idea but I figured they wouldn't and it certainly doesn't feel like they did, I haven't seen shotguns this inconsistent since MW3.
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Post by quickbuck on Nov 18, 2017 3:40:48 GMT -5
So is the graph on the app only showing shotgun base damage or total max possible damage? That's a big difference.
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Post by quickbuck on Nov 18, 2017 3:51:54 GMT -5
The graph actually says 'base damage' but that would make it an automatic kill at close range and I know from personal experience that it is possible to get hitmarkers from point blank.
However, if the graph is showing total max possible damage and the M30 does 10 per pellet as opposed to 2 per pellet for the others then the M30 is actually the worst shotgun, as it must require more pellets to connect to get a kill and have a considerably poorer base damage.
would be good to have a fuller explanation both here and on the app please.
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Post by brassmonkeigh on Nov 19, 2017 10:08:08 GMT -5
So is the graph on the app only showing shotgun base damage or total max possible damage? That's a big difference. As mentioned earlier, the graph shows the max possible damage of each shotgun if all pellets hit. The stats tab shows the number of pellets fired per trigger pull and damage per pellet. |
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Post by brassmonkeigh on Nov 19, 2017 10:13:57 GMT -5
I'm surprised they kept that mechanic from BO3. I was hoping they would since it's a great idea but I figured they wouldn't and it certainly doesn't feel like they did, I haven't seen shotguns this inconsistent since MW3. The mechanic is there, but the reason they feel inconsistent is because most shotguns only do around 104-110 damage if ALL pellets hit. This means that in order to score a 1 hit kill, you have to land all but 1 or 2 or the 8 being fired. The combat shotgun is the most favorable, where you can get 1 hit kills with only landing 3/8 pellets, but the range for that is pretty small. |
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Post by brassmonkeigh on Nov 19, 2017 10:17:57 GMT -5
The graph actually says 'base damage' but that would make it an automatic kill at close range and I know from personal experience that it is possible to get hitmarkers from point blank. However, if the graph is showing total max possible damage and the M30 does 10 per pellet as opposed to 2 per pellet for the others then the M30 is actually the worst shotgun, as it must require more pellets to connect to get a kill and have a considerably poorer base damage. would be good to have a fuller explanation both here and on the app please. For sure. This is a naming convention conflict that needs to be addressed. "Base Damage" was the term I used previously to describe a weapon with no attachments. It has a new/additional meaning with regards to the shotgun mechanic. I have updated the graph key in the app to be more clear. The green line which was previously labeled "Base Damage" is now called "No Attachment". This should make things more clear. The "No Attachment" graph line shows the damage dealt by a single trigger pull of the weapon with no attachments added. For shotguns, this means base damage + all pellet damage. |
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JustABitAgroed
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Post by JustABitAgroed on Nov 20, 2017 3:37:46 GMT -5
App crashes when I try to access the detailed page of the Toggle Action. I'm on iPad if that helps.
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JustABitAgroed
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Post by JustABitAgroed on Nov 20, 2017 4:13:45 GMT -5
BM, if the shotgun graphs show max damage possible @ range, why/how can the minimum damage (before disappearing) on the M30 be 10?
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Nov 20, 2017 5:03:31 GMT -5
Number of pallets that need to hit would be the best for sure! Preferably displayed as 3/8 or something if shotguns have different number of pellets. Thnx for pointing out google opinion rewards, just bought the app. Still on the fence on how I feel spending money on this, but hey, free money  p.s. on android, you can buy the app and redeem within 2 hours for anybody who is not sure if they want it. I will be giving it a look brass monkey and will see if anything could be more clear and point it out. Thnx for putting the work in either way. 5 bucks for stats beats searching for it a few hours I guess |
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Nov 20, 2017 5:13:32 GMT -5
First thing: why are optimal TTK not on the first weapon page? It is the most important statistic players download this app for. Right now i am still thinking about building a chart just to actually make decent comparisons between guns. The compare weapons option is OK, but doesn't really replace that. Would be nice to have 1 chart or graph for all weapons within the class. The app looks pretty good, but please don't make looking good a priority over it actually being informative. Your customers pay 5 bucks for stats, not something that looks good.
p.s. now I understand why the tompson feels that good.
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banana
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Post by banana on Nov 20, 2017 11:37:45 GMT -5
number of pellets needed would be the best thing
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Post by brassmonkeigh on Nov 20, 2017 16:04:09 GMT -5
App crashes when I try to access the detailed page of the Toggle Action. I'm on iPad if that helps. This should now be fixed. Thanks for being specific with device type & exactly when the issue occurs. |
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Post by brassmonkeigh on Nov 20, 2017 16:08:06 GMT -5
BM, if the shotgun graphs show max damage possible @ range, why/how can the minimum damage (before disappearing) on the M30 be 10? Good catch. This was a mistake. There is a strange situation in the stats this year where the number of range intervals for some guns do not match the number of damage intervals. I discussed this with Marvel and we had to come up with a best guess for what was happening. Bottom line is the graph was not including pellet damage for the last range interval, only base damage. It has now been corrected. The final damage interval deals 90 damage, not 10. (10 base damage + 10 damage per pellet * 8 pellets) |
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Post by brassmonkeigh on Nov 20, 2017 16:11:40 GMT -5
First thing: why are optimal TTK not on the first weapon page? It is the most important statistic players download this app for. I'm not sure what you mean by "optimal ttk" but the best TTK that a weapon can achieve (usually TTK at close range) is listed as part of the weapon overview. I believe this is the section you are referring to - the one that shows the summary for all weapons of a particular class. It is identified by the stopwatch icon and the units are milliseconds. You can easily view the TTK for all weapons in a class this way. Edit: As I'm sure you know, but for the benefit of anyone else reading this, in addition to the TTK value displayed on the summary page you can also click on the weapon to view a more detailed graph of all TTK values over every range. |
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