exaltedvanguard
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Post by exaltedvanguard on Oct 28, 2019 11:43:00 GMT -5
So I've beaten campaign and logged about 10 hours of multiplayer over the weekend and here's my initial thoughts.
Without spoiling anything for the campaign, I'll say that it looked great but was rather disappointing all around. The story was rather bland and predictable. I saw the big reveal coming from a mile away. Seriously, I had it figured out maybe 20% into the game. And then there's a decision of a player character at the very end of the story left me completely baffled. I just didn't see any real motivating force for him to make that choice.
The cardinal sin of the campaign was weird and awkward gameplay choices. For example, there's several parts of the game where you are on foot escorting a tank or other vehicle. Well tank's make for fantastic cover, and one of the characters in the game even tells you to stay close. So what do you naturally decide to do? Stay close to the tank. The game literally told you to. And then the tank hits an IED. And if you were close to the tank you instantly die without any warning or explanation. The first time it happened I thought that maybe I just got really unlucky and got hit by an RPG first-off from an ambush. Nope. Died twice without any explanation. So next life I ignore the game, which has instructed me to stick close, and sure enough the tank explodes and now, having survived long enough to hear it, an NPC screams "IED!!!"
Speaking of weird and awkward instructions, the game has the option for you to hit back and it'll display a waypoint to the objective. But only when it really wants you to have a waypoint. At which point it will tell you to hit back. Why does this even exist? It only works at pre-determined points, why not just display the waypoint instead of having the player press an extra button. Meanwhile there were two points where I was (briefly) disoriented and hit the button. No waypoint. Thanks game. (Also this is the only way to bring up your compass so that you can actually interpret what the hell your allies mean when they yell about an enemy to the northwest.)
There's also another section where you play as a child and feels AWFUL. There's a horrible section where you're supposed to get behind an NPC that's looking for you. Except in my case he would instantly turn around the moment I circled around to come in a different side of the room. Maybe I'm supposed to hide? Nope. Instantly finds me anywhere I try. I was completely unable to break aggro on this NPC in order to get behind him no matter what I tried. I died probably 25 times here. God gosh darn golly gee whiz did this entire section feel awful. At the end of the child section, you have to use your weak baby arms to lift and hold something steady. Twice. And in between there's once again a hiding mechanic that doesn't seem to work AT ALL. And once again I died multiple times. I just had to brute force it and try to get both done before dying. I get that the developers wanted the player to feel like a weak child, but instead it was just annoying, frustrating, and COMPLETELY IMMERSION SHATTERING. Awful. Just Foxtroting awful. I can't even begin to properly express how bad these sections felt from a gameplay standpoint.
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On to multiplayer.
I've only been playing core TDM (both sizes) so far, as this is my preferred mode and the mode I find it easiest to learn maps on.
After logging about 10 hours, I've got to admit that I'm... kinda let down. I was extremely excited for this year's CoD and I'm finding it... Rather stale. There's a ton of great additions, but there's a couple key things holding it back.
To start off with a positive, I love the gunsmith system. I think it's a fantastic change. But I really wish (like anyone on these forums) that I could see numerical data rather than ambiguous pluses and minuses and moving bar charts. The biggest gripe I have with this system is that every attachment has to be unlocked sequentially for each individual weapon. They seem unlock fairly quickly, earning 1-2 per game, but there's so many optics that it's going to be a hell of a slog to get all 50 attachments on each weapon. While customization is cool, I'd much rather have that stat-changing suppressor rather than my 12th red-dot variant. Either unlock the entire category of a given optic type (and reduce the number of levels to like 20) or give me unlock tokens that I can choose to spend on whatever I want. This is simply a case of using cosmetics to fluff out functional items and artificially extend "the grind."
Weapon balance is yet to be seen. Of the early weapons available the M4 is a standout, but it's far too early for anyone to really make any real judgement calls on balance. There's way too many guns and attachments for people to grind out before we can make any sort of call on this.
Map design is... meh. All the maps play as if they are more or less long rectangles with a team at each end. Spawns (in TDM) are sticky and flank routes are generally lacking as there aren't really any lanes to separate you. So your general gameplay loop is to spawn, take the middle buildings, and then kill the people as they run out of their spawn to the middle buildings. Then you die and spawn and get killed while taking the middle buildings. And eventually you kill them and take the middle buildings back. And you just do that forever because there's not many ways to flank or get around them. And even if you can, as we'll discuss in a bit, aggressive play is generally suboptimal.
And as far as loadouts go, does anyone actually enjoy claymores, gameplay wise? They're not very satisfying to get kills with and they're awfully annoying to play against. Even when you see them, you often have to waste your singular grenade to clear them - which doesn't feel great. Or go around and walk right where the camper wants you to walk. From a gameplay standpoint I don't see that they add much to the experience... I wouldn't mind if they were field upgrades with a lengthy cooldown. But there's just so gosh darn golly gee whiz many of them.
And speaking of tactical loitering.... Oh boy. This game is all kinds of slow and campy. Let me be clear. Aggressive play is possible, but only once you get the right attachments (ones that reduce sprint-to-fire time, chiefly). And even then it is only somewhat viable. Aggressive, run-n-gun gameplay is FAR from optimal. Optimal gameplay is to move into a house and live there for the rest of your life. This is by far the most reliable way to get kills and win games.
It stems from a few things. First off, something we can't do anything about, is that this game has tons of visual noise. How many times has your character yelled, "Contact!" and you see nothing? This is a common issue with all modern games. The world is full of small items and garbage and clutter. It looks great. But it also makes it far harder to spot people. It's a far cry from the sterile hallways and empty rooms of old. It looks great. But it has an effect on gameplay. We can be pretty sure that this will never change, as IW wouldn't ever be willing to "nerf" their visuals.
So what gameplay choices have been made that result in so much tactical loitering?
First off is the addition of mount. I was quite wary of this mechanic when I first heard about it. But after my brief 10 hours of gameplay, it's really not that bad. Honestly I thought that mounting would be a major issue but it's not. I was wrong. I guess this game is balanced for lean.
The next issue is footsteps. Everyone's loud and clunky. And honestly... It feels bad. Footstep sounds punish aggression and reward players for staying immobile. This definitely needs tuning. Personally, I really wouldn't mind if they muted footsteps altogether, although that'll never happen. I'm not a fan of the "if you're not wearing headphones you're at a disadvantage" trend in games lately, and have been finding myself longing for the Halo 2 days where footsteps were nigh-useless and generally negligible on gameplay. But I know that's just me and acknowledge that footsteps are here to stay. So if they're here to stay, they need to be toned waaay down. You can not only pre-aim, but even pre-fire based off footsteps.
I find myself wondering why the developers wanted footsteps so loud and I keep coming back to the same reason every time. They needed some way to inject awareness back into the game. Awareness that they stripped away with the removal of red dots on the minimap. Without the map-dots, I see players frequently spinning in circles trying to locate fire.
With the compass-dots, you know that there's a player in a given building but have no idea where at. Ground floor window? Upstairs? Looking out the other side? You don't know. You just heard the shots and want to go kill him. So I imagine without footsteps, these scenarios became nightmares for the player entering the building. They could be anywhere in there and you have to check every single corner as you enter. You're an easy kill. This is how hardcore has always played out. And that realism is attractive to some players for sure. But the majority of the CoD players find that gameplay loop frustrating (or annoying, or plain ole boring). So they don't play hardcore.
With map-dots, you knew what room they were in when they fired and can mentally math out how far they might have moved since. An aggressive player can then move in while checking the most likely places the opponent may now be. Without map-dots, the only other way to give the aggressive player a small chance is footsteps. That way as they approach the building they can hear that the enemy player is on the left side or is upstairs. But as we said before, footsteps punish aggression and reward immobility. The person in the house still has a massive advantage.
So it quickly becomes apparent that being aggressive is not an optimal choice. Compass-dots have made it difficult to locate action and footsteps have made it dangerous to approach the action. Why should I, Joe Shmoe, run off into battle? Won't it be way more effective to set up shop and wait for someone to walk into my line of sight instead? Yes. Yes it is more effective to do just that.
So I guess the question I have is... why are map-dots bad? Why did we suddenly decide that it's bad for people to have this horrible style of play where they chased dots and *gasp* ran towards the action? Is it cause hardcore doesn't have a map? After all, any thing called hardcore has that big dick energy and you don't wanna be a little dick, do you? Is directing players toward the action and keeping the gunplay hot such a bad thing? Or maybe it's because we want realism. I will admit that it's totally unrealistic for our eyeball-implanted maps to have red dots showing gunfire. I would also like to propose that SMGs, Shotguns, and Pistols should do 0 damage to the chest. Because realism. Body armor plates yo.
So in general, the game has felt really slow and campy. And honestly, I have to describe the moment to moment gameplay as... boring. Which is about the worst thing you can say about a game. Which is a gosh darn golly gee whiz shame. Because on the rare match I get where everyone's running around and it's chaos.... The game's gosh darn golly gee whiz fun. I like running toward the action, not waiting for it to arrive. I like shooting, not sitting. When I get the rare match that isn't all tactical loitering, I have a ton of fun. But even over the past 3 days those matches have become significantly less common. And I'm already finding myself kinda bored.
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eLantern
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Post by eLantern on Oct 28, 2019 12:05:40 GMT -5
I haven't played the campaign so I can't comment on it.
Claymores & I'd add Proximity Mines should probably get addressed. I think your idea of turning them into a Field Upgrade w/ a lengthy cool-down is very intriguing. I would also recommend limiting people to having only one active at a time, so if someone is able to put a second one down it would automatically replace a previously placed Claymore/Proxi. Another potential solution would be to restrict the Shrapnel perk from doubling Claymore & Proximity Mines.
I 100% agree with your comments and thoughts regarding weapon attachments and progression under the Gunsmith.
I personally believe global footsteps should be toned down to what the Dead Silence perk use to provide before it got updated to provide actual dead silence to footsteps with crouch walking being even a bit more muted than what that previous audio level was.
I would also add that the character callouts or Battle Chatter should get contained to audible ques for a player and his/her team (within proximity) only. It directly undermines any stealth game-play capability if you're constantly alerting opposing players to your presence. I also wouldn't mind seeing this Battle Chatter fully eliminated under One-Life modes like SnD.
Not to mention, suppressors/silencers should keep you off of enemy radars & the compass when firing your weapon. At least outside very close proximity.
I do wonder what kind of improvement might be seen regarding the effectiveness of tactical loitering by adjusting the Ghost perk so that it required some movement.
IW should convert the game to Scorestreaks only. Basically remove the Pointman perk by making it's benefit a global standard & modify the Hardline & Kill Chain perks to function w/ scorestreaks. This incentivizes players to play objectives instead of primarily focusing on kills. Perhaps consider replacing the Pointman perk (given its benefit becomes a global standard) with either a new perk that allows Scorestreaks to lap/repeat after all have been earned or by converting the Dead Silence Field Upgrade into a Tier 2 perk option.
In opposition to a portion of the outspoken CoD community, I very much do appreciate the map designs in this game. I like the porous concept with more movement freedom and options than you see in typical restrictive 3-lane maps. With improvements to these other aspects I imagine the effectiveness of tactical loitering will be properly curbed.
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Oct 29, 2019 16:07:31 GMT -5
tldr / long story short : >>> Campers of the world, unite! <<< Most campers friendly CoD ever. You can even reload staying in ADS mode looking at the door/window/downstairs lol. Sniping - easy. Everyone can snipe. CoD4 was camper's heaven but mw2019 sets a new standard here >>>> CoD4 fans 'll play it till death edit: "Modern Warfare has a tactical loitering Problem" by TheXclusiveAce; I could not agree more:
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Post by Wonder Showzen on Oct 29, 2019 18:18:11 GMT -5
Modern Warfare 2019 Initial Impressions, short version:
Campaign: I enjoyed the campaign and look forward to trying it again on a harder or Realism(no HUD) difficulty.
Spec Ops: I am hearing awful things about Spec Ops so I am going to wait for them to fix it, tweak it, add the promised additional missions, and add difficulty-adjustment.
Multiplayer: The best gunplay in entire CoD series. Gunsmith is fantastic. Map design ranges from great to average, and I think MW2 strill has the edge. Some of the shooting angles have counter-angles, which have counter-angles, etc, so some maps feel a bit to "balanced in that regard. Spawn trapping is a major issue for a few levels. Overall I LOVE the return to non-3-lane design.
Overall, I hope the community realizes that there is room for a variety of styles of CoD(jetpacks, boots on ground, arena-shooter, 3-lane, ball of tangled spaghetti lanes), and stops bitching about the style that clearly does not match their interests. Next year will be your year. Or the next. Keep playing the one that holds your interest and wait for the sequel.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 30, 2019 6:38:27 GMT -5
The fact that 3 lane is gone is the sole reason I might consider picking this up. I don't understand why people ever liked 3 lane maps.
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Oct 30, 2019 15:03:26 GMT -5
Overall, I hope the community realizes that there is room for a variety of styles of CoD(jetpacks, boots on ground, arena-shooter, 3-lane, ball of tangled spaghetti lanes), and stops bitching about the style that clearly does not match their interests. Next year will be your year. Or the next. Well, 75% of games - lobbies are not full: very often 3 vs 6 or 4 vs 6 or 5 vs 5 sth like that... TDMs 4 vs 4 ... Looks like a game 3Y after release, at least in Europe ... not: less than 1W after launch... What "variety of styles" do you have in mind? Staring thru 1st flor or 2nd flor window or similar?
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Post by illram on Oct 30, 2019 20:00:11 GMT -5
Is cross play working? On the Xbox can you use a controller and the mouse at the same time and still get paired with KB+M users? Or does it force you to use a keyboard for your left hand/movement controls if you use a mouse?
Edit: answered my own question (no controller + mouse. Must use a keyboard.)
On the PC version can you use a controller and mouse at the same time (without using a xinput adatper)? In BO3 this worked perfectly. I.e. stick in left hand for moving and mouse in right for aiming.
Edit: answered my own question again! No. Boo.
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Post by Wonder Showzen on Oct 30, 2019 23:52:15 GMT -5
I am on PC+KBM and I am getting matched with a variety of PC and both consoles, KBM and controller. Crossplay appears to be working great, though I am surprised to be matched with mixed input-types.
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Post by illram on Oct 31, 2019 2:12:29 GMT -5
It seems the default, if you log in with your COD account, is enabling cross play. Which is good, they should encourage that.
I'm having fun so far, notwithstanding not being able to use my ideal set up. It's a little campier than prior titles but I don't mind that, it plays closer to the "old school" COD experience for me.
They FINALLY updated the audio engine. The new shiny Dolby Atmos support has me sold. 1.5 hours is not enough to really hear if the vertical audio ques are good or not but so far the headphone virtual surround is otherwise very good.
The UI gives me a Ghosts feel. This is the first COD in a while that does not feel unfinished right out of the gate, which is good.
I am not sure yet whether I miss the lack of a battle royale.
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Post by Broadband on Oct 31, 2019 3:08:43 GMT -5
The campaign was pretty bad. It was hyped before release for being "controversial" by all the major gaming outlets, but what we got instead was yet another bland 5 hour affair that played it safe. Seriously, where were all the supposed controversial parts? Did IW really bend the knee and remove them before release? Because MW's campaign is just yet another "Russia BAD" story with some feminism sprinkled in for good measure. It's just such a gosh darn golly gee whiz cliche at this point. Unpopular opinion, but nerfing the footsteps won't eliminate cam ping. The design of the maps, the lack of red dots showing on the radar when firing, Ghost working whilst stationary, the mount mechanic, kill streaks as opposed to score streaks and perks that start you off with 2 claymores & recharging every 30 seconds do more to encourage cam ping than loud footsteps ever will. Also it's pretty alarming I'm constantly being put into 3v4 matches with 150 ping. Either the SBMM is even more aggressive than I initially thought or the game's already dying. The fact that 3 lane is gone is the sole reason I might consider picking this up. I don't understand why people ever liked 3 lane maps. Don't kid yourself, most maps in MW2019 are three lane at their core, just with a bunch of clutter and random crap thrown around without any regard. It's not hyperbole when so many people are saying that MW2019's maps are the worst in CoD history.
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exaltedvanguard
True Bro
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Post by exaltedvanguard on Nov 1, 2019 14:43:02 GMT -5
I'm getting really annoyed with the eye-adjustment effect where you can't see anything when you move from a dark area to a bright one or vice versa. Getting effectively flashbanged by every doorway is dumb as shit.
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Nov 2, 2019 4:34:28 GMT -5
Try Co-Op version. It is really intense, good designed, hard as hell to survive, you can use classes from multiplayer and it levels you up there. ... create a class with 2 LMGs Only 10XP for a kill vs 100XP, but not campy nor boring ... and you kill Russians Multiplayer is worth playing only to level up your LMGs... or gain extended mags for ARs... Guns level up in Co-Op as well. I never was a fan of Co-Ops, with the only exception of Extinction in Ghosts, but killing aliens it did not level you up in multiplayer. ... In the meantime give them time to rebalance multiplayer into a less campy version: - they should increase movement speed and jump height, - buff silencers, buff dead silence to buff flanking, so "moving anywhere would be an option at all" - increase minimap, so you could start thinking about moving closer to the opponents, - nerf soundwhoring - brick some windows and doors to encourage moving, reduce the number of lines of sight you must observe to move to another building .... - add more cover between buildings and lots of additional ladders, - make all barrels and "boxes" or fences climbable, - so many times small fragments of something at your head level block your ability to climb, wtf?, so you need to be at a proper distance, not too far, not too close, it s nonsense, sometimes I have to try 3-4 times before I can get somewhere ... while in other CoDs I could fly over it ... - Stinger reload sholud be faster, so you could remove camper's rewards faster, not to die a lot while reloading Sitnger ... - why do I have to look inside that supply box every bloody time, its content does not change, it consmes too much time 1-2 secs... I died many times while "throwing a box" or reloading Stinger ... (luckily thwrowing a box doesnt show you on the minimap ...or maybe it does? stupidity knows no boudaries ...) etc etc... a lot to improve.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Nov 6, 2019 9:44:58 GMT -5
I agree with @wwaa, what I've played of the co-op missions has been really good. Only played with randoms, done three out of four of them a handful of times, haven't completed a single one. They're actually challenging. Survival mode, on the other hand, has some issues. It starts way too slow, it takes 15 minutes to really get started. Some of the maps are way too big and force you to spend a ton of time running to get to that last enemy (Aniyah Palace). Glitches are killer - I think they fixed the issue of getting stuck in a wall, but there's still issues that prevent you from being able to purchase killstreaks.
Co-op doesn't give you nearly as much XP as it should. Also, for some reason it doesn't tell me how much XP I earned after most of my MP matches.
All of the MP maps seem to be 3 lane maps to me. No idea why they're all so huge.
I've been playing mostly Ground War. It's the only game mode where people consistently run around. Tanks can get annoying, you'll sometimes spawn and die immediately, but overall you can run around and find people to shoot. Also, they should probably do something about tanks being able to absolutely map people, they shouldn't be hitting snipers on top of towers directly with the first shot every time.
I started using the MG34 pretty heavily once I unlocked it. Seems to be really good. Weapon balance is a little unusual. Between the size of the maps, the lack of people running around, and the power of the Olympia, SMGs are completely pointless. I was stoked to unlock the Bizon and then found out it's no longer a bullet hose. Who cares if it has a 64 round magazine if you'll never live long enough to fire anywhere near that many? Marksman Rifles are a joke, god knows how many kills you need to get before unlocking a scope but it'll be a while before that happens. The Strela-P description says it "is devestating to vehicles on contact." So that was a fucking lie.
A lot of the issues in the game could be improved by an influx of new maps. Ground War only has two maps, I don't know how long they think people will be willing to play the same two maps repeatedly. Regular MP has only a small handful of maps, many of which are way too big, and almost all of which are way too not good. An influx of some small classic maps would do a lot to improve gameplay and reduce player complaints. They could drop Rust, Dome, Hardhat, and Strikezone into the 6v6 playlists and it would probably have a huge immediate improvement on overall gameplay.
Also, I can't believe I'm saying this, but they probably should nerf the hell out of the Olympia so that people can start using SMGs. As usual, I'll adjust to shotguns being terrible and use them anyway. I preferred BO3 where for months everyone laughed at me when I said the Brecci was incredible before realizing I was right.
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Nov 6, 2019 15:43:18 GMT -5
Ground War fixes most of the problems with this game. The maps are still three lane-ish, windows everywhere, but people actually move around. Sound whoring isn't mandatory. Of course, you still have those guys hiding in one bush for 20 minutes getting 3 kills and being proud of themselves, but hey not much you can do about them. And Tavorsk District is a very fun map when the opposing team is full of bad snipers on the roof tops.
My issue with shotguns (including the 725) isn't so much their power level, but that the game design actively discourages rushing (which punishes shotguns). Instead, the game encourages you to overkill the 725 with the M4, thus eliminating the disadvantage of using a shotgun as a primary.
And Hawk, I can't believe you're back to CoD after all of these years. I thought you were done for good.
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Post by illram on Nov 6, 2019 16:22:59 GMT -5
Yeah the maps are killing this game for me. I feel like I constantly replay the same 3 or 4 maps, all the time.
I would love to play this game on a classic COD map. I'd actually probably buy a DLC for the first time in a long time if they just offered a 100% classic map pack of MW1/MW2 maps to be honest. (They won't.)
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Post by TheHawkNY on Nov 6, 2019 16:57:54 GMT -5
Ground War fixes most of the problems with this game. The maps are still three lane-ish, windows everywhere, but people actually move around. Sound whoring isn't mandatory. Of course, you still have those guys hiding in one bush for 20 minutes getting 3 kills and being proud of themselves, but hey not much you can do about them. And Tavorsk District is a very fun map when the opposing team is full of bad snipers on the roof tops. My issue with shotguns (including the 725) isn't so much their power level, but that the game design actively discourages rushing (which punishes shotguns). Instead, the game encourages you to overkill the 725 with the M4, thus eliminating the disadvantage of using a shotgun as a primary. And Hawk, I can't believe you're back to CoD after all of these years. I thought you were done for good. I quit because of the loot boxes. Let's hope they keep their word not to ruin this game with them.
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exaltedvanguard
True Bro
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Post by exaltedvanguard on Nov 7, 2019 12:11:22 GMT -5
After playing some more, I actually don't think the maps are awful. They're not great, but a lot of the issues stem from lighting rather than layout.
There's a lot of situations where you legitimately can't see people. You can't just glance at the window and know someone's there. You just can't see them. I find myself often firing at red names rather than people.
So the open, porous map design with many windows becomes really problematic when you combine it with the lighting.
There's quite a few videos circulating Reddit showing off perfect examples of this.
Visibility in this game is utter shit.
And that means any map with lots of windows or corners (read: all of them) will end up playing like shit.
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On future groundwar maps, I'd like to see more ways to deal with snipers parachuting on to roofs. They quickly become un-approachable since there's very few attack routes and plenty of ways to block them up (claymores,etc).
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Also, they need to drastically reduce the time it takes to unlock attachments. I'm nearing level 55 and only have 3 or 4 weapons maxed. What a grind. Locking important stat changes behind a grind this long feels bad.
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Nov 7, 2019 14:46:29 GMT -5
I agree with @wwaa, what I've played of the co-op missions has been really good. Only played with randoms, done three out of four of them a handful of times, haven't completed a single one. They're actually challenging. I 'll tell you a secret ... but don't tell anyone else plsss.... /1st "headhunter mission"/ 1. create a class with LMG: ext magz, FMJ, good zoom (VLK 3.0 is fine), recoil control + 3 supply boxes with additional ammo ... (2 x LMG overkill sounds perfect or LMG + shield) your class: it should be MEDIC. 2. you have to JOIN a game in progress - it happens a lot as people quit or die... and with your parachute - land on the roof of the stadium. 3. stay there, don't get killed. 4. kill anything below you, tanks, juggs, infantry, helis ... help your team to complete all tasks ... 5. if you die, there is still a chance guys from below might heal you if there is a medic around ... (nooone can climb to the roof) 6. if 2-3 of your teammates die - heal them if poss, otherwise: WAIT for another players, they'll come soon, be patient... 7. last task: in the end, with your parachute - land on the ground, get into the heli, ... mission completed. Randoms who join your game which is almost completed cannot complain too much They would never get that far so fast
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Post by illram on Nov 7, 2019 15:20:34 GMT -5
These missions are really tough. I like the idea though. Makes me wonder if they will ever do a battle royale with this map, looks perfect for it.
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Slick
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Post by Slick on Nov 8, 2019 11:18:59 GMT -5
Ground War fixes most of the problems with this game. The maps are still three lane-ish, windows everywhere, but people actually move around. Sound whoring isn't mandatory. Of course, you still have those guys hiding in one bush for 20 minutes getting 3 kills and being proud of themselves, but hey not much you can do about them. And Tavorsk District is a very fun map when the opposing team is full of bad snipers on the roof tops. My issue with shotguns (including the 725) isn't so much their power level, but that the game design actively discourages rushing (which punishes shotguns). Instead, the game encourages you to overkill the 725 with the M4, thus eliminating the disadvantage of using a shotgun as a primary. And Hawk, I can't believe you're back to CoD after all of these years. I thought you were done for good. I quit because of the loot boxes. Let's hope they keep their word not to ruin this game with them. Bro, this is Activision. Sell it by late December.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Nov 9, 2019 14:27:09 GMT -5
I agree with @wwaa, what I've played of the co-op missions has been really good. Only played with randoms, done three out of four of them a handful of times, haven't completed a single one. They're actually challenging. I 'll tell you a secret ... but don't tell anyone else plsss.... /1st "headhunter mission"/ 1. create a class with LMG: ext magz, FMJ, good zoom (VLK 3.0 is fine), recoil control + 3 supply boxes with additional ammo ... (2 x LMG overkill sounds perfect or LMG + shield) your class: it should be MEDIC. 2. you have to JOIN a game in progress - it happens a lot as people quit or die... and with your parachute - land on the roof of the stadium. 3. stay there, don't get killed. 4. kill anything below you, tanks, juggs, infantry, helis ... help your team to complete all tasks ... 5. if you die, there is still a chance guys from below might heal you if there is a medic around ... (nooone can climb to the roof) 6. if 2-3 of your teammates die - heal them if poss, otherwise: WAIT for another players, they'll come soon, be patient... 7. last task: in the end, with your parachute - land on the ground, get into the heli, ... mission completed. Randoms who join your game which is almost completed cannot complain too much They would never get that far so fast Lol, just saw this...that's exactly what I did. I sat on that roof with an LMG and a Sniper until all three randoms were on the helicopter.
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gina
True Bro
in_sane
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Post by gina on Nov 10, 2019 0:47:59 GMT -5
After playing some more, I actually don't think the maps are awful. They're not great, but a lot of the issues stem from lighting rather than layout. There's a lot of situations where you legitimately can't see people. You can't just glance at the window and know someone's there. You just can't see them. I find myself often firing at red names rather than people. Saw a video post patch with the higher enemy player model glow and it seems to be alright now, it was that cave map. I also saw a video with the guy converting the short AUG to the regular AR size and the integral scope as well, I really like that kind of stuff, this more than counteracts the attachments system with the pseudo balance negative points for me. The cross-play feature could be nice for longevity of the game on PC as well. But the main thing that pushes me to buy this game is the lack of alternatives, and this ranges across sub genres, be it Battalion 1944 or Hell let Loose type of games, always something that I dont like or dont want to play anymore.
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wwaa
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PC / PS4 / X1
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Post by wwaa on Nov 10, 2019 2:35:15 GMT -5
...that's exactly what I did. I sat on that roof with an LMG and a Sniper until all three randoms were on the helicopter. They patched it in 1.07, you cannot land on the roof of the stadium now ... Sad as it was fun.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Nov 10, 2019 10:10:24 GMT -5
...that's exactly what I did. I sat on that roof with an LMG and a Sniper until all three randoms were on the helicopter. They patched it in 1.07, you cannot land on the roof of the stadium now ... Sad as it was fun. Glad I beat it before then. Have you finished any of the others?
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Post by confuzzled on Nov 11, 2019 17:55:59 GMT -5
My initial impression is that this game is a cluster fuck.
I really really want to like this game. The shooting mechanics and smoothness of it is superb, IMHO.I love the lack of presaging and I love how you can grind guns to level 70 and spec them in so many different ways. Field upgrades are good and score streaks have a tendency to be brutal like in the old days. You can get spawn trapped which is a good thing because its something you allow to happen as a team. Sniping is probably too easy but fun on some of the maps. I just can't get into ground war. Seems like a poverty battlefield to me and that night mode was fun for one game then quickly became annoying. I'm not even sure the point of hardcore besides the hud as the TTK seems to be the fastest that I can recall in a COD.
725 insanity, claymore of duty and camp central, poor vision in some areas and super cluttered and chaotic maps, most of which are forgettable to me make this game hard to play. If you aren't rushing with a 725 you are probably sitting behind a claymore somewhere or have the m4 at a very high level. I also feel like it needs more maps as there are quite a few but they are split between game modes (ground war, 10v10 and regular modes). Every time piccadilly comes up I back out of the map... I mean there's probably only four maps I actually enjoy in the standard rotation...
I know they just tried to fix some of this a little but its still rough. Playing shoot house 24/7 a lot the last two days and I'd say 75% of us are running around with a 725. I honestly can't really play tdm on this game. Too many problems...if its not domination I just can't deal with all the problems and don't enjoy the game.
I'm not that good, middle tier player that has better tactics than reflexes as Im getting older and even I can do some crazy things with the 725...(e.g. run into an area and get a quick quad feed even when enemies are not all bunched together).
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wwaa
True Bro
PC / PS4 / X1
Posts: 2,086
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Post by wwaa on Nov 12, 2019 13:48:18 GMT -5
They patched it in 1.07, you cannot land on the roof of the stadium now ... Sad as it was fun. Glad I beat it before then. Have you finished any of the others? Yes, I finished all of them, on XB1... I suppose - thanks to some PC players maybe. Crosswind I had to finish 3 times to finally complete,... as two times in a row game crashed exactly when I was in the rescue heli, ready to escape, just before “mission completed” displayed... TLDR: I really like co-op: 9/10, while MP for me is a lot lower (basically because of maps and reduced "movement" abilities) I would even consider buying DLCs only because of co-op. Co-op should have its own stats (do you see any?) Headhunter mission needs some changes, it is too hard for randoms. Many tips online, but I 'll share mine. ============================================= My impressions: 4th: CROSSWIND The easiest is ... the last mission. A “stealth start” is comfortable, different tactics available. I suppose it is possible to take them out with silencers before any alarm starts, there is a switch on the wall near first terminal, but with randoms … they see = they shoot with unsilenced weapons, no thinking… After bleeding out or joining a game in progress you can land on the roof of the airport and control what is going on down there. / = easy win at the airport Then the action in the aircraft, a smooth linear one, hard to fail. (but not doable for 1 player … we were all hit and lying around bleeding out, while he decided not to wait to let us respawn, but entered the aircraft alone and without full ammo... epic fail we watched LOL) The most tricky part happens later, landing on the cemetery of aircrafts, at least 3 power snipers in front of you, it is better to have one player who stays safe and will survive to allow others to respawn: it is easy to fail there if in a hurry, just before escaping, but I really like that mission, played many times. 3rd: PALADIN Looks like a very relaxing mission with a very difficult finish. Paladin is hard to complete without 2+ centry guns kept for the last waves … (can any sight on any weapon “see” thru smoke btw?) (One can carry that doctor behind the walls of the parking straight to the swimming pool, avoiding firefight on the way.) 2nd: KUVALDA I think this mission is very confusing for many players, they do not know where and how to start it. “Server” is on the map on the opposite side of the initial spawn, it is better to get there silently, not being involved in any firefights on the way. After you started properly (directly at the server, not 50 meters away) – it goes smoothly. One enemy mortar on the hill overwatching the camp makes respawn-landing on any roof risky … it might be better to destroy it if in sight .. I saw one player who managed to survive in one of watchtowers with a sniper rifle and allowed others to respawn. The beginning might be hard if too rash but then the mission shines, pleasure to play it. 1st: HEADHUTER No idea why but they designed the first mission as the most difficult one, while it should be the easiest, as a starter. I feel surrendered in stadium area, exposed to shots from 3 directions, many shots from behind (riot shield helps), a lot of epic fails, nowhere to hide when your teammates bleed out and you have no chances to get there and revive them. I tried many tactics, but nothing works so far as my team always is in a hurry “to win fast”. A wave of 5 tanks (or infantry fighting vehicles) + infantry support with PKMs and sniper rifles, more than 50 of them? Against: 4 players, half of them completely unprepared, with M4 or SMGs, usually without air support (not found or not equipped)? Who was behind that brilliant idea? Such a battle does not happen later in any mission. Two tanks would be more than enough as most players do not have FMJ unlocked or equipped … or cannot find RPGs there or cannot aim with it … 3 teammates quickly bleed out and before they respawn you bleed out as well, mission failed. I tried to pull back, no success so far. I suppose the whole team should pull back to find more cover and destroy tanks a bit later, one by one... Sometimes when I pull back – teammates quit... I used gunship, but it was shot down in 5 secs ... I used AC130, but I was killed on the ground, my teammates too, mission failed... Whatever, next try today, I’d love to join a competent PC team of 3, LOL. I am afraid one player should hide far away from the stadium with a lot of ammo + AC130 maybe (roof of the start spawn might be ok), three players fight untill they bleed out and respawn and figth again. // EDIT: I finished Headhunter again and it is really slow ... many respawns, moving back a lot, hiding on roofs, sneaking, killing bosses one by one ...============================================= My setup: Medic LMG, M91: silencer or compressor, hybrid sights, grip, FMJ, 150 rounds in belt +400, + riot shield, overkill + fast weapon swap perk. 1-3 ammo crates, 0-2 centry guns, depends on the mission. (Paladin: 1 ammo + 2 centry guns) Eventually MG34 in a similar configuration, but fully extended mag offers only 100 rounds +300, so I rarely use it (but offers single fire mode = saving ammo in longer ranges, it works fine) PKM seems too weak, but I might be wrong... 200 round belt sounds very good, I’ll give it a try next week. //EDIT: I used PKM, it is ok. I am afraid you cannot collect ammo from PKM on the ground ... The last LMG SA87 (aka L86 LSW) has magazines of 50, 60 and 70 rounds only (AFAIR), I doubt it is enough, I tested properly equipped version of SA87 in a priv game and it seems to have too much recoil (for that amount of ammo...) when a lot of firefights happen in longer ranges.
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exaltedvanguard
True Bro
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Posts: 10,226
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Post by exaltedvanguard on Nov 12, 2019 18:31:28 GMT -5
I like a lot of the changes that were made, especially to movement speed.
However the game still desperately needs a tuning pass. Every match of TDM hits the time limit. The game is getting better, but it's still really slow.
Traditional minimap and a meaningful change to footsteps would go a long way toward improving game pacing without destroying the "feel" of the game.
There's also a new gimmick a stun or flash (not sure which) do enough damage that it makes RPG kills hilariously easy. Danger close is back boiz. Why the Foxtrot do those tacticals do any damage anyway? The world may never know.
I was open to the concept of dead silence being a field upgrade. But after playing for a while... It needs to being a Foxtroting perk. I'm sorry but there's no other way to say it. The developers seriously Foxtroted up. Make dead silence a perk. Swap it out with tracker. Make tracker a field upgrade that gives you a (buffed) speed boost and hides your kills from enemies.
Currently tracker bring a perk and dead silence on a cool down means you can hunt people and flank and cause chaos... But only for 15 seconds at a time. Reversing these means you can flank at any time, but hunting and causing chaos (no skulls) is on a cooldown.
Making it a yellow perk also means that rushers won't have access to spotter or battlehardened, which are both desirable perks for rushing. Balance!
Also, the riot shield is dumb as fuck. Why the fuck would a riot shield protect you from thermite or high explosives?
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Post by TheHawkNY on Nov 14, 2019 10:35:47 GMT -5
So, has anyone leveled up the Origin 12 shotgun yet? I'm not sure if I've been killed by it even once. Initial impression is the reason for that is it's absolute dogshit, but I'm wondering if it becomes decent once you narrow the spread significantly. That 25 round drum mag has me dreaming of feeds.
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Post by kylet357 on Nov 14, 2019 10:56:58 GMT -5
So, has anyone leveled up the Origin 12 shotgun yet? I'm not sure if I've been killed by it even once. Initial impression is the reason for that is it's absolute dogs hit, but I'm wondering if it becomes decent once you narrow the spread significantly. That 25 round drum mag has me dreaming of feeds. I've used it some. As far as I can tell, it's basically a semi-auto R9-0 (seems to be the same pellet count and damage per pellet). It's pretty okay so far but I only have it into the 20s atm, so I don't have all the really good attachments.
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exaltedvanguard
True Bro
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Post by exaltedvanguard on Nov 18, 2019 21:56:12 GMT -5
I'm level 120 and at this point...
Every single match feels exactly the same. I generally do well, but rarely go on big streaks. I find myself always going positive, but never feeling like I'm actually doing well. Not sure why that is. I never feel like I'm having any real impact on the outcome of a game, regular matches or ground war. Even if the scoreboard says I did a lot (I'm usually top 2 in TDM and top 5 in ground war), I don't feel like it. I really feel like I'm not improving or getting anywhere with this game. Honestly if there was any other shooter out there that interested me, I'd probably have already dropped this game. I might just go back to BO4. There I can really carry a TDM game and feel like I'm doing something useful. I'm really hoping something changes with future patches to make the game feel less... Repetitive? I guess? I just don't feel like I'm getting anywhere.
At this point all I can stand is ground war. Smaller modes are campy and boring. Footsteps are a big factor here.
The worst thing is visibility. It's just impossible to see people sometimes. The game looks beautiful no doubt, but it plays like garbage because of it. I can't tell you how many times I've looked right at someone and had no idea they were there. This is mostly a lighting issue. The volumetric lighting and HDR look gorgeous, but I don't want a vertical slice. I want a game.
Spawns are awful. Aside from the obvious issues with spawn logic, there's a couple changes that need to be made.
First off, the camera fly in is a major issue. The half second it takes can mean the difference in an okay spawn and a bad one, since an enemy can round a corner and change sight lines during that time. It's also awful because it will sometimes give you information you shouldn't have. I've gotten a ton of cheesy kills because I spotted an enemy player running around and could easily determine where he was moving to a pre-aim it. Were it not for the spawn camera he would have had the drop on me instead.
Secondly, they need to immediately remove the weapon-charging after a spawn where your character will pull the charging handle and/or check the chamber. When you get a bad spawn, this makes it so much worse because you're literally unable to shoot back. It's so dumb that this is a thing.
Third, ground war spawning is inconsistent and dumb. There's been times where my friend is marked as in combat but isn't shooting or damaged. He backed off from the fight for reinforcements. 10 seconds later and I still can't spawn. It can't be enemy proximity considering the number of times I've literally watched someone spawn... Not sure what's up with that. And if you're gonna make me wait until it's "safe" why do I spawn on grenades and infront of enemies so often? Either let me spawn in danger, or make it actually safe. There also desperately needs to be a 1 or 2 second spawn shield to grenades, explosives, tanks, and killstreaks. And how about you face me in the general direction of the closest enemy instead of facing a wall? Not that it would matter much since I'd be too busy charging my weapon to shoot back.
I really hope that future ground war maps cater far less to snipers. In Battlefield, snipers are annoying but not a gamebreaking issue because they're not helping capture flags. They get some kills but aside from being annoying, don't do all that much for their team. The difference in MW is that the bushwookie sitting in the middle of nowhere is on his way to calling in a choppergunner or other streak.
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