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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Nov 13, 2012 22:28:45 GMT -5
Super-Ultra-Mega-Update
Thanks to Marvel4, we now have significantly more accurate shotgun damages. He can yell at me later if he didn't want me to post this yet.
R870: - 50 - 10 x8 pellets
Saiga 12: - 30 - 5 x8 pellets
M1216: - 25 - 5 x8 pellets
Executioner Il Carnefice: - 30 - 5 x8 pellets
And just for kicks KSG: -1 slug -1 up close -2 at range
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 13, 2012 22:44:07 GMT -5
Each of stakeout's pellets does 50 damage at up close range? Interesting.
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Nov 13, 2012 22:56:56 GMT -5
Each of stakeout's pellets does 50 damage at up close range? Interesting. Well it is quite consistent UP CLOSE when hipfired without laser sight. I would imagine so. But I might be wrong.
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Brick2urface
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Post by Brick2urface on Nov 13, 2012 22:57:43 GMT -5
Now if only the r870 had more than 650 inches of range with the long barrel. It is very nice to see 50 damage per pellet. But still 700 or 750 inches of range would be better. Considering the large spread, ads is near manditory for any range performance. I feel that increased range is warranted.
I still feel that the hipfire is too damn big.
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 13, 2012 23:10:12 GMT -5
What about silencer being a viable attachments on shotguns? I heard it doesn't affect range as dramatically as smgs/ars/lmgs
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Brick2urface
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Post by Brick2urface on Nov 13, 2012 23:31:56 GMT -5
I doubt it. Shotgun range is very short already and these shotguns have pathetic min damages. I don't think silencer will be a viable option outside of the very smallest maps.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Nov 13, 2012 23:40:39 GMT -5
Silencer is definitely a smaller penalty, but when you consider silencer vs long barrel.... ehhhhh
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Nov 13, 2012 23:46:58 GMT -5
Well, things like RF and MMS have negative parts to them as well. Silencer is still one of the best [if not still the best] attachment in the game for ARs.
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Brick2urface
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Post by Brick2urface on Nov 13, 2012 23:49:10 GMT -5
I just did some math. If stock 870 range was moved up to 650 it would be perfect. With long barrel it would have the ideal pump shotgun damage model + a little extra 2 shot range. This would look like 300-750 range 50-15 damage 80+ rpm with high ads mobility and tight ads spread. 100 inches more range does a ton to help the 870.
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Post by esupin on Nov 14, 2012 0:57:36 GMT -5
The 870 is loads of fun. I ADS with it 95% of the time and don't even bother with the laser sight. Long barrel is a necessity and it's a shame that we have to use up 1 slot to equip it. I don't know if both Quickdraw and Dexterity are both needed though. I haven't unlocked Quickdraw on the 870 yet and it hasn't been a problem. Plaza is my favorite map for shotguns.
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Post by drift0r on Nov 14, 2012 1:35:28 GMT -5
Times like this is when drift0r's legion of subscribers would be useful. Testing pellets on shotguns only takes 1-2 people beside the shooter. Legions would only make things more complicated
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 14, 2012 1:58:09 GMT -5
a shame long barrel + silencer can't be used on shotguns.
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Post by alexanaxela on Nov 14, 2012 1:59:50 GMT -5
R870: -8 pellets -2 up close -7 at range
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Nov 14, 2012 3:11:38 GMT -5
Times like this is when drift0r's legion of subscribers would be useful. Testing pellets on shotguns only takes 1-2 people beside the shooter. Legions would only make things more complicated But I'm testing pellets to kill! What I mean is you always have testing buddies. Testing this all on your own is quite tedious... Or... did I completely miss your point? R870: -8 pellets -2 up close -7 at range I don't know if he is crying because of the 2 pellet kill up close or the 7 pellet kill at range. Just remember though, I might be wrong. I could never get him to die in more than two shots a point blank. I'll do some testing tomorrow morning and update the OP.
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 14, 2012 3:20:01 GMT -5
R870: -8 pellets -2 up close -7 at range more like
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Nov 14, 2012 5:55:11 GMT -5
more like Go to private, set health to Half and try to get more than 1 shot. M1216: -8 pellets -? up close - 16! at range. Seems good enough. You do shoot 32 pellets per burst, you just have to ADS and pull down the mouse (not you mou-c) or analog.
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Robospy
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Post by Robospy on Nov 14, 2012 6:21:22 GMT -5
But at max range you aren't hitting 50% of pellets per shot, more likely somewhere between 13 - 38%, which means you would, on average, need 2 - 3 bursts to kill
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Nov 14, 2012 6:43:03 GMT -5
But at max range you aren't hitting 50% of pellets per shot, more likely somewhere between 13 - 38%, which means you would, on average, need 2 - 3 bursts to kill 2 bursts seem ok. Just do the regular shotgun work: Shoot, go back to cover, shoot again.
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Post by hamburglar86 on Nov 14, 2012 9:17:43 GMT -5
Now if only the r870 had more than 650 inches of range with the long barrel. It is very nice to see 50 damage per pellet. But still 700 or 750 inches of range would be better. Considering the large spread, ads is near manditory for any range performance. I feel that increased range is warranted. I still feel that the hipfire is too gosh darn golly gee whiz big. I'd like hipfire spread to be reduced, but it doesn't seem to be much wider than what I'm used to as long as you use the laser sight. I've been using the R870 with laser sight and I hipfire almost exclusively. Range seems sufficient but not impressive. Has there been any testing comparing laser sight spread to ADS spread? I like to hipfire whenever possible, as any ADS time reduces TTK.
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Post by alexanaxela on Nov 14, 2012 9:28:22 GMT -5
Now if only the r870 had more than 650 inches of range with the long barrel. It is very nice to see 50 damage per pellet. But still 700 or 750 inches of range would be better. Considering the large spread, ads is near manditory for any range performance. I feel that increased range is warranted. I still feel that the hipfire is too gosh darn golly gee whiz big. I'd like hipfire spread to be reduced, but it doesn't seem to be much wider than what I'm used to as long as you use the laser sight. I've been using the R870 with laser sight and I hipfire almost exclusively. Range seems sufficient but not impressive. Has there been any testing comparing laser sight spread to ADS spread? I like to hipfire whenever possible, as any ADS time reduces TTK.
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Post by hamburglar86 on Nov 14, 2012 9:52:49 GMT -5
I'd like hipfire spread to be reduced, but it doesn't seem to be much wider than what I'm used to as long as you use the laser sight. I've been using the R870 with laser sight and I hipfire almost exclusively. Range seems sufficient but not impressive. Has there been any testing comparing laser sight spread to ADS spread? I like to hipfire whenever possible, as any ADS time reduces TTK. Great video. Thanks for posting that. Laser sight and long barrel is what I've been using. The laser hip fire spread seems reasonable, suggesting that hipfire should be used in most engagements (considering its better TTK), and you should only ADS in rare circumstances where you're killing at the upper range limit of your shotty.
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Nov 14, 2012 9:53:36 GMT -5
C'mon guys. This is a huge advance to MW3. SMGs killed in 3 shots and shotguns in 3 pellets. Now SMGs kill in 4 shots and the 870 in 2 pellets. With a RoF buff too.
And Drift0r video missed something very important: Hip fire spread when moving is hugER.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 14, 2012 11:02:52 GMT -5
Shotgun chart updated in light of these numbers. I didn't lower any pellet damages below 10 as this breaks the chart until I added additional graduations for damage. I just did some math. If stock 870 range was moved up to 650 it would be perfect. According to that weapon chart posted, it has 660 units of range stock. I don't have the numbers for damage drop off, but if I assume 50-15 with 250-660 range, we get a laser hip fire one shot kill up to 510 units, which ain't too bad. By Treyarch standards.
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Brick2urface
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Post by Brick2urface on Nov 14, 2012 11:05:35 GMT -5
C'mon guys. This is a huge advance to MW3. SMGs killed in 3 shots and shotguns in 3 pellets. Now SMGs kill in 4 shots and the 870 in 2 pellets. With a RoF buff too. And Drift0r video missed something very important: Hip fire spread when moving is hugER. That is only compared to smgs. How does this shotgun stand agaist ARs? Not very well. Not yet from what I have seen anyway. Its a great step in the right direction but its missing just that little something. With the inadiquacy of standard hifire and lower than blops 1 default range you are forced to use the laser and long barrel to get anything out the gun in terms of hipfire and range performance. That means you have to sacrifice 2 attachments to just get the shotgun up to par. Since attachments now = perks in some cases that makes it so you have to burn 4 pick 10 points to get performance that comes stock on other weapons. I am generally okay with that if the reward for doing so was large, but its not. Don't get me wrong in direct comparison to mw3 the gap between shotguns and smgs has narrowed and I like that. But I don't think we are there quite yet.
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banana
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Post by banana on Nov 14, 2012 11:06:34 GMT -5
Shotgun chart updated in light of these numbers. I didn't lower any pellet damages below 10 as this breaks the chart until I added additional graduations for damage. I just did some math. If stock 870 range was moved up to 650 it would be perfect. According to that weapon chart posted, it has 660 units of range stock. I clicked on the spreadsheet and saw something changed and thought i did it but then i realized it was you
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Nov 14, 2012 11:09:22 GMT -5
I feel like the R870's 50DMG at CQC is like the the FiveseveN's 2HK @ CQC. Discrete DMG falloff.
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Brick2urface
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Post by Brick2urface on Nov 14, 2012 11:11:36 GMT -5
Shotgun chart updated in light of these numbers. I didn't lower any pellet damages below 10 as this breaks the chart until I added additional graduations for damage. I just did some math. If stock 870 range was moved up to 650 it would be perfect. According to that weapon chart posted, it has 660 units of range stock. Shit son! Never mind then. I haven't got the game yet so i was basing what i was saying off of the chart that said it was 650 with long barrel. Thats much better. Only complaint I got with these new numbers is bad hipfire. But damn thats not lookin too bad so far.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 14, 2012 11:30:59 GMT -5
I feel like the R870's 50DMG at CQC is like the the FiveseveN's 2HK @ CQC. Discrete DMG falloff. I fear the same thing. I wouldn't be surprised if Treyarch gave it a 2HK up to 150 units or something like that to justify its other properties. Brick: the spreads are identical to the Olympia/SPAS of BO1. On paper, this is a huge buff over the Stakeout, which was 40-10, 300-650, ignoring the worst hip spread and ADS mobility. ...but I did well with the Stakeout.
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Brick2urface
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Post by Brick2urface on Nov 14, 2012 11:38:03 GMT -5
I did better with stakeout than mw3 spas. So yeah this wont be too bad. Sprint was infinite back then though. Which was a definite benefit to shotguns. Also any different data on the ksg than this chart img72.imageshack.us/img72/3670/blackopsiiweaponstatist.png ? This is what i was basing my position off of. How sure are we of those range values in the chart you posted because some of them are in direct conflict with the one I posted.
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Post by alexanaxela on Nov 14, 2012 11:46:09 GMT -5
also we long barrel will increase the range before the pellets turn into dust, but does it also extend the range until the damage begins to drop off?
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