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Post by volgon on Nov 10, 2012 4:54:17 GMT -5
I would definitely lose the extended mag to gain a 3sk range, especially considering the nerf emags got. That's just me, though. That's probably the best thing to do. Still hoping that the burst guns don't have such ridiculously high auto RPMs, will just have to wait until launch to try them out and see which ones feel best.
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Post by sixone on Nov 10, 2012 6:36:59 GMT -5
The other interesting thing is that lots of really important unlocks are late as Foxtrot. This is going to really annoying, what with being pretty much forced to prestige. This. Although "important" is subjective, based on the way I like to play, only perhaps the Type and PDW are guns that I would care to use until LEVEL 43 (SMR, Ballista, Skorpion, AN-94). Gosh, I hate playing the game just to get to stuff I want to use.
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Post by UrbaneVirtuoso on Nov 10, 2012 6:44:13 GMT -5
Awareness and Tactical Insertion at 50 and 47, respectively.
Welp, I'm glad as all hell we get unlock tokens. At least the AA launcher is lenient for being a starter.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Nov 10, 2012 6:45:15 GMT -5
Ghost, Scavenger, and Awareness are the ones I'm sad to see so late. I had planned to have those on most of my classes. Now I have to durdle around with Lightweight etc for three prestiges :/
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Post by sixone on Nov 10, 2012 7:19:10 GMT -5
Question about prestige tokens:
Does it work like MW3 where you get one per prestige to spend on what you want and you have those items throughout subsequent prestiges?
Example: I prestige the first time and unlock the SMR. I have that once I reach Prestige 1, level 4. I prestige a 2nd time and unlock the Skorpion. I have both the SMR and Skorpion at Prestige 2, level 4.
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Post by sixone on Nov 10, 2012 7:34:53 GMT -5
Awareness and Tactical Insertion at 50 and 47, respectively.
Welp, I'm glad as all hell we get unlock tokens. At least the AA launcher is lenient for being a starter. While I don't like being forced to prestige, I will say that they obviously put a lot of thought in this. For example, although Ghost isn't available, if players get destroyed by scorestreaks they only have themselves to blame. You can have the following anti-Scorestreak class by level 5: MK 48 FHJ-18 AA Blind Eye Cold Blooded You also get the EMP grenade at level 11. Heck, they even have a FHJ-18 AA in one of the default classes if you don't want to spend a slot. So from my perspective its a conscious decision on Treyarch's part to encourage/discourage a certain style of play (e.g., discourage tactical loitering). Further examples are when the Suppressor is unlocked. Level 4 for SMGs (e.g., useful in rushing spawns) vs. level 12 for ARs (e.g., useful for controlling choke points, high traffic areas).
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Post by sixone on Nov 10, 2012 7:58:57 GMT -5
If you want a CQB AR the M8A1 SF seems to be the obvious choice, unless I'm missing something? That and the SWAT do seem to be the best choice from what I have seen. They both look to fire around that Type 25 900rpm mark and have 3HK ranges. The only problem is attachments; I definitely want a Silencer and having to use Select Fire means I'll have to drop either Extended Mags (likely) or Adjustable Stock/Quickdraw (whichever I prefer). If I ran a natively automatic AR, I could run all 3 which would be optimal for my playstyle. I love to rush and typically prefer fast firing SMGs (MPL, PM9, etc.). However, my ideal setup is a high RPM AR that I can "transform" into an SMG with Perks/Attachments while still retaining AR's natural low recoil and range. I couldn't get it quite right in BO1 due to competing perks (SoH vs. SA) and lack of Stalker. MW3 didn't have Lightweight. But in BO2 I can have this with: Type 25 Quickdraw, Stock, Laser Sight Lightweight The only question I have is that if the SWAT & M8A1 retain their RPM with SF, if so I'll drop for the increased range and 3HK.
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Post by citrus on Nov 10, 2012 10:43:54 GMT -5
MTAR seems remarkably similar to MW3 M4A1, although the former has better 4HK range while the latter's 3HK range is superior.
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Post by rubixx on Nov 10, 2012 11:25:59 GMT -5
sixoneSWAT with SF is at 900rpm. It is a cqb monster! It has a good bit of recoil, compared to the other AR's, but if you can manage it it will win every 1 v 1 gun fight you come across.
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Amirror
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Post by Amirror on Nov 10, 2012 11:45:44 GMT -5
Notes: -ROF for the pumps doesn't make sense -KSG fires slugs -M1216 is full auto but must rotate barrel after 4 shots -Shotguns do not have multipliers except the KSG has a headshot multiplier -All shotgun's pellets disappear at a range of 500 Mistakes with the extended clip size of two shotguns. S12 is supposed to be 14, while the M1216 is supposed to be 20. Also, holy crap, these shotguns are crap! Except the KSG obviously. Why is there always only one good shotgun to use in each COD? (except MW2) ...BUFF THE M1216, S12, AND R870!!
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Nov 10, 2012 12:10:59 GMT -5
It could've been worse for shotguns No. Not having to ADS has been the shotgun class's biggest edge over the SMGee's in CQC and now that they have to ADS even w/ Steady aim while SMGee's are better from the hip than ever. 1900RPM RF Skorpion anyone? Also now that I think about it now that shotguns have to ADS anyways you might as well just use the Ballista. That has infinite range. Ballista's infinite range > KSG-12's 40Ft. If you want use a shotgun in BLOPS2, just use the Exe or Ballista.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Nov 10, 2012 12:37:36 GMT -5
Wow, this is really interesting balance. Im surprised to see so much detail and variation between guns....
But select fire could fuck it up pretty hard
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Nov 10, 2012 12:44:44 GMT -5
thats true, and 3arc grip is generally pretty weak, so its not a big deal. kick was just stupid.
so, best gun?
i guess once we get a full spreadsheet it might be easier, but right now... no idea.
if the SMR has 625RPM as well [the guy says it has the "fastest single shot" but then gives it a lower RPM than the FAL?] it could be the best gun in the game for good players.
but i guess having double the rof on the M8A1 could make it better.
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 10, 2012 13:02:45 GMT -5
What do you guys think will be the most used AR now?
Wonder how many people will use select fire on M8 and swat..
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Nov 10, 2012 13:16:08 GMT -5
T25 Suppressor + Stalker/QD FAL Select Fire + Stalker/QD SWAT Select Fire + Suppressor/Stalker/QD
But im more than likely wrong...
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Post by volgon on Nov 10, 2012 13:47:10 GMT -5
That and the SWAT do seem to be the best choice from what I have seen. They both look to fire around that Type 25 900rpm mark and have 3HK ranges. The only problem is attachments; I definitely want a Silencer and having to use Select Fire means I'll have to drop either Extended Mags (likely) or Adjustable Stock/Quickdraw (whichever I prefer). If I ran a natively automatic AR, I could run all 3 which would be optimal for my playstyle. I love to rush and typically prefer fast firing SMGs (MPL, PM9, etc.). However, my ideal setup is a high RPM AR that I can "transform" into an SMG with Perks/Attachments while still retaining AR's natural low recoil and range. I couldn't get it quite right in BO1 due to competing perks (SoH vs. SA) and lack of Stalker. MW3 didn't have Lightweight. But in BO2 I can have this with: Type 25 Quickdraw, Stock, Laser Sight Lightweight The only question I have is that if the SWAT & M8A1 retain their RPM with SF, if so I'll drop for the increased range and 3HK. The best part (for me) with using a standard auto AR is that I can pick up both a Stock and QD while keeping my Suppressor. It's been a while since I've played MW3 but the only time ARs felt "right" in that game is when I ran QD/Stalker + Steady Aim from Specialist. The mobility and reaction speed you gain is incredible. Compound that with Toughness and I think you would have a fair chance in a straight gunfight against a SF M8/SWAT even if they are 937 rpm.
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 10, 2012 14:01:22 GMT -5
thats true, and 3arc grip is generally pretty weak, so its not a big deal. kick was just stupid. so, best gun? i guess once we get a full spreadsheet it might be easier, but right now... no idea. if the SMR has 625RPM as well [the guy says it has the "fastest single shot" but then gives it a lower RPM than the FAL?] it could be the best gun in the game for good players. but i guess having double the rof on the M8A1 could make it better. Grip is pretty much needed to make MP7, Vector, SCAR and AN94 usable, IMO.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 10, 2012 14:45:37 GMT -5
Looks like Treyarch really thought long and hard about balancing this game. Except that using recoil versus range is a terrible way to balance weapons. MW3 started this and it makes zero sense in practice. The AK has a larger 3 hit kill range than the ACR does...even if the AK is silenced. But in practice, the ACR's lower recoil makes it better every time all the time.
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Nov 10, 2012 15:01:38 GMT -5
Looks like Treyarch really thought long and hard about balancing this game. Except that using recoil versus range is a terrible way to balance weapons. MW3 started this and it makes zero sense in practice. The AK has a larger 3 hit kill range than the ACR does...even if the AK is silenced. But in practice, the ACR's lower recoil makes it better every time all the time. Range vs. Recoil is a perfectly okay way to balance weapons when implemented correctly. Problem with the ACR vs. AK is that the difference in range was minuscule in comparison to the difference in recoil. Now if the ACR dropped to 4SK around 700 units or something like that, then we'd be okay...until everyone realizes that the G36C is now king of the hill.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Nov 10, 2012 15:19:59 GMT -5
Looks like Treyarch really thought long and hard about balancing this game. Except that using recoil versus range is a terrible way to balance weapons. MW3 started this and it makes zero sense in practice. The AK has a larger 3 hit kill range than the ACR does...even if the AK is silenced. But in practice, the ACR's lower recoil makes it better every time all the time. Thats a fair point, however the range differences are much greater in here. Maybe they were smart enough to give them higher damages as well [Imagine a 35-25 ACR @ 750 range and a 45-30 AK @ 1500range]
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Post by jackaltornmoons on Nov 10, 2012 15:55:11 GMT -5
Ghost, Scavenger, and Awareness are the ones I'm sad to see so late. I had planned to have those on most of my classes. Now I have to durdle around with Lightweight etc for three prestiges :/ +1 I'm a sad panda.
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Slick
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Post by Slick on Nov 10, 2012 16:25:48 GMT -5
Ghost blows lightweight all the way lol As a run on sentence, this is a hilarious read.
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Post by rubixx on Nov 10, 2012 17:04:10 GMT -5
Ghost blows lightweight all the way I can confirm this as I have seen Ghost on it's knees much more often than Lightweight
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Post by rubixx on Nov 10, 2012 17:16:12 GMT -5
Also on a more serious note don't worry about the rapid fire scorpion evo....it is absolutely useless and you will be luck to kill one person per magazine.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Nov 10, 2012 17:25:26 GMT -5
Pretty sure the Chicom is a bigger deal anyway, since it's just as much of a bullet hose, and apparently has longer range as well as less recoil (judging by the numbers/video we have).
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Post by imrlybord7 on Nov 10, 2012 17:26:13 GMT -5
A more fitting image given the wording would be Lightweight running all the way to the way with Ghost implementing some sort of on-the-move blowjay tactic. Options are
Ghost is doing a sort of bent over roadie run alongside Lightweight, but logistically I doubt Ghost could keep up for long enough to do a sufficient blowjay.
Ghost is facing Lightweight on its knees on one of those little four-wheeled butt scooters we used in elementary school gym class being propelled forward by Lightweight's movement. Turning could be tricky, but I have much more faith that with this style of cooperation the two can lead the country to greatness.
Marijuana will soon be legal in two states, and that's just pretty great.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2012 17:28:30 GMT -5
So, no reason to use the vector over the mp7, unless its select fire somehow makes it godly
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 10, 2012 17:28:56 GMT -5
wat I don't even.
Anyways....if the skorpion is in any given CoD I will be using it.
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Post by rubixx on Nov 10, 2012 17:32:20 GMT -5
wat I don't even. Anyways....if the skorpion is in any given CoD I will be using it. You know it is a totally different gun right?
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 10, 2012 17:33:03 GMT -5
yup lol.
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