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Post by rubixx on Nov 10, 2012 17:37:37 GMT -5
Just making sure. ;D
Just tried Vector burst fired: Results....it sucks. I don't see any reason to choose it over the MP7 so far.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Nov 10, 2012 18:11:04 GMT -5
Pseudo SMGs by way of AR+Quickdraw+Stock will reign supreme, I have no doubt. But it seems like there is decent enough balance within that weapon class for things to be more interesting than in previous games.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Nov 10, 2012 18:23:17 GMT -5
Quickdraw is awesome, I don't really like the stalker effect. I always wished I could remove it from Specialist Bonus. I'm probably going to use Quickdraw+SF or Quickdraw+Silencer on most of my ARs.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 10, 2012 18:25:08 GMT -5
Aye, quickdraw is amazing. I think I'l be using quickdraw + FMJ on alot of mine now that we know how many points you get from shooting stuff down.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Nov 10, 2012 18:26:15 GMT -5
That and you have to go a minimum of 54 levels with no Ghost :/
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Post by imrlybord7 on Nov 10, 2012 18:28:16 GMT -5
You didn't like Stalker? That's probably the most ass-backwards things I've ever heard (in CoD). I mean sure it takes getting used to but you can always ease up on the thumb stick when you are being less mobile. ADS walking was the only thing that kept SMGs from being worthless in a lot of situations. Mobility and hip accuracy were also nice, but the differences were never really substantial enough. Not being slowed down by ADS so much makes ARs absolutely vicious.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Nov 10, 2012 18:28:46 GMT -5
Aye, quickdraw is amazing. I think I'l be using quickdraw + FMJ on alot of mine now that we know how many points you get from shooting stuff down. If UAVs/CUAvs are like Black Ops and not MW2/MW3/[Cod4?], then its still gonna be a pain to kill em. Very small AKA accurate hitbox model, unlike IWs massive square.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 10, 2012 18:30:46 GMT -5
Oh right, I forgot about that...that would be something someone *cough rubix cough* could test for us...
I wonder just how accurate you have to be with the black hat to take that stuff down.
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Post by firestorm on Nov 10, 2012 18:35:34 GMT -5
Pretty sure the Chicom is a bigger deal anyway, since it's just as much of a bullet hose, and apparently has longer range as well as less recoil (judging by the numbers/video we have). I didn't really pay enough attention while I had the chance to view other select fire gun's firerate. But I watched Evo and Chicom select fire video side by side and Evo(without RF) has a higher firerate than select fire Chicom.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Nov 10, 2012 18:37:39 GMT -5
You didn't like Stalker? That's probably the most ass-backwards things I've ever heard (in CoD). I mean sure it takes getting used to but you can always ease up on the thumb stick when you are being less mobile. ADS walking was the only thing that kept SMGs from being worthless in a lot of situations. Mobility and hip accuracy were also nice, but the differences were never really substantial enough. Not being slowed down by ADS so much makes ARs absolutely vicious. Strafing with ARs is for scrubs. Lateral Jump/Drop or don't even bother moving. All strafing back and forth is good for is peeking around corners for campers, and we have other tools for that.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Nov 10, 2012 18:42:45 GMT -5
Pretty sure the Chicom is a bigger deal anyway, since it's just as much of a bullet hose, and apparently has longer range as well as less recoil (judging by the numbers/video we have). I didn't really pay enough attention while I had the chance to view other select fire gun's firerate. But I watched Evo and Chicom select fire video side by side and Evo(without RF) has a higher firerate than select fire Chicom. Guide has them at the same, so I guess we'll see when we get actual numbers with framerate accounted for. Even so, Chicom has a bigger mag, (apparently, again better info will hopefully be available later) less recoil, and more range. The difference in RoF would have to be pretty substantial to outweigh that. Remember how dominant the MW3 MP7 is, despite its relative mediocrity in the ttk department. You can go pretty far being a bullet hose with decent handling.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Nov 10, 2012 18:47:13 GMT -5
I play BO not MW3 so drop-shotting doesn't really happen since it's so much slower. I would assume that drop-shotting will be more similar to BO than MW3. And drop-shotting only matters in pretty direct confrontations. That's important, but maintaining mobility during ADS is great for rushing and flanking. Keeps things flowing smoothly and fiercely.
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Post by firestorm on Nov 10, 2012 18:51:05 GMT -5
I didn't really pay enough attention while I had the chance to view other select fire gun's firerate. But I watched Evo and Chicom select fire video side by side and Evo(without RF) has a higher firerate than select fire Chicom. Guide has them at the same, so I guess we'll see when we get actual numbers with framerate accounted for. Even so, Chicom has a bigger mag, (apparently, again better info will hopefully be available later) less recoil, and more range. The difference in RoF would have to be pretty substantial to outweigh that. Remember how dominant the MW3 MP7 is, despite its relative mediocrity in the ttk department. You can go pretty far being a bullet hose with decent handling. From the video the Chicom def has less recoil and bigger clip, range needs some real testing after release. Do note that Evo reload noticeably faster. My point wasn't that Evo is better though. It's if Chicom has sub 1000 RPM, MSMC is going to be better in every way, except smaller mag, but is made up by needing less bullet to kill. And since Chicom need to use select fire, MSMC has even bigger advantage.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Nov 10, 2012 18:53:05 GMT -5
Jump/drop was a thing in BO too. People started combining them there even more, to avoid dolphin diving (if you jump then prone, you don't dive). It's faster than moving, and covers vertical distance as well as horizontal. It's pretty much strictly better if you know an enemy is there, and with all the goodies we have access to you really should.
Also firestorm, at those speeds it's hard to say which one really fires faster without controlling for framerate. Framerate has a big effect on RoF, and Treyarch games aren't known for their stability. Scorpion may fire faster, but right now it's impossible to say (unless you have equipment to test).
And unless all our data is wrong PDW>>>>>MSMC. I'll take 20 extra in the mag for <200 range difference any time.
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Post by rubixx on Nov 10, 2012 19:03:34 GMT -5
Small hit-boxes and Foxtrotting bullet sponges. Launcher is the best option. Black Hat PDA has to be perfectly aimed at it for 5 sec to destroy it and if you get off target with it you have to start again.
UAV's that is.
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Post by firestorm on Nov 10, 2012 19:09:14 GMT -5
Jump/drop was a thing in BO too. People started combining them there even more, to avoid dolphin diving (if you jump then prone, you don't dive). It's faster than moving, and covers vertical distance as well as horizontal. It's pretty much strictly better if you know an enemy is there, and with all the goodies we have access to you really should. Also firestorm, at those speeds it's hard to say which one really fires faster without controlling for framerate. Framerate has a big effect on RoF, and Treyarch games aren't known for their stability. Scorpion may fire faster, but right now it's impossible to say (unless you have equipment to test). And unless all our data is wrong PDW>>>>>MSMC. I'll take 20 extra in the mag for <200 range difference any time. MSMC without grip has about the same recoil as PDW with grip. The difference is there for sure.
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Amirror
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Post by Amirror on Nov 10, 2012 19:09:25 GMT -5
Small hit-boxes and Foxtrotting bullet sponges. Launcher is the best option. Black Hat PDA has to be perfectly aimed at it for 5 sec to destroy it and if you get off target with it you have to start again. UAV's that is. Oh yeah, I need to ask, can you use the Black Hat PDA infinite amount of times or is there a limit?
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Post by rubixx on Nov 10, 2012 19:26:00 GMT -5
What she said You can carry two if you like
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Post by blues27xx on Nov 10, 2012 19:31:08 GMT -5
Also on a more serious note don't worry about the rapid fire scorpion evo....it is absolutely useless and you will be luck to kill one person per magazine. I thought 1200 was the highest RoF you could achieve at 60 FPS... wouldn't that make RF useless on the Skorpion and Chicom (on console at least).
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Post by blues27xx on Nov 10, 2012 19:35:38 GMT -5
You didn't like Stalker? That's probably the most ass-backwards things I've ever heard (in CoD). I mean sure it takes getting used to but you can always ease up on the thumb stick when you are being less mobile. ADS walking was the only thing that kept SMGs from being worthless in a lot of situations. Mobility and hip accuracy were also nice, but the differences were never really substantial enough. Not being slowed down by ADS so much makes ARs absolutely vicious. Stalker is stupid because they had to nerf ADS movement speed to make it relevant. Kind of like nerfing the shotgun's range and damage so that you have to use the range or damage proficiency to make them even come close to killing somebody.
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Post by rubixx on Nov 10, 2012 19:36:05 GMT -5
It shoots faster w/ rapid fire so they did something to make it higher than that. I don't understand all the technical reasons behind RoF and FPS so I couldn't tell you how.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Nov 10, 2012 19:37:58 GMT -5
Most guns always had terrible ADS movement speed. So unless they nerfed it on SMGs (which would make SMGs even more obsolete) then no Stalker is awesome. And SMGs still had great ADS movement speed without Stalker in MW3. So did pistols and machine pistols.
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 10, 2012 20:12:24 GMT -5
MTAR seems remarkably similar to MW3 M4A1, although the former has better 4HK range while the latter's 3HK range is superior. And M27 reminds me a lot like COD4 M4, except its rate of fire is -100 RPM. /: Also.. My thoughts on Hardwired and Ghsot Hardwired really needs to be changed. Too damn situational, and doesn't help that CUAV and orbital satellite is unlocked even later now. Should be combined with another perk IMO.. Ghost should just get full immunity to UAVs. None of that forced movement bull shit. It's the least Treyarch should do, now that its split into 4 perks(even then, it still gets no red cross hair or no name from enemies aiming at ghost/assassin pro users) and Ghost is unlocked at level 55. >_>
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Post by wg4f on Nov 10, 2012 20:22:26 GMT -5
Also on a more serious note don't worry about the rapid fire scorpion evo....it is absolutely useless and you will be luck to kill one person per magazine. I thought 1200 was the highest RoF you could achieve at 60 FPS... wouldn't that make RF useless on the Skorpion and Chicom (on console at least). I think 3600 RPM is the highest possible on console
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Nov 10, 2012 20:34:19 GMT -5
Why would there be a limit? 3600 is 1 shot per frame, but I cant see why having 2 shots per frame or 3 shots per frame would actually be impossible.
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 10, 2012 20:51:41 GMT -5
Just making sure. ;D Just tried Vector burst fired: Results....it sucks. I don't see any reason to choose it over the MP7 so far. Vector seems to have a little less recoil than the MP7 to me.
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Nov 10, 2012 20:58:08 GMT -5
RoF is tied to the framerate, It's a limitation of the engine they're building on, no frame, no shot,
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Post by Judge_St3vo on Nov 11, 2012 1:32:47 GMT -5
Absolutely terrible that every shotgun besides the KSG has only 50 more range than the AA12 in mw3.
I just don't understand how they could screw that up so badly.
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Amirror
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Post by Amirror on Nov 11, 2012 1:36:38 GMT -5
Absolutely terrible that every shotgun besides the KSG has only 50 more range than the AA12 in mw3. I just don't understand how they could screw that up so badly. Yeah, and this makes those shotguns require Long Barrel to even get a decent range, which still is lower than most MW3 shotties.
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Post by Judge_St3vo on Nov 11, 2012 1:38:41 GMT -5
Absolutely terrible that every shotgun besides the KSG has only 50 more range than the AA12 in mw3. I just don't understand how they could screw that up so badly. Yeah, and this makes those shotguns require Long Barrel to even get a decent range, which still is lower than most MW3 shotties. Feel like the only way to use the other three shotguns will be with long-barrel and quickdraw attachments
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