asasa
True Bro
fuck
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Post by asasa on Dec 17, 2012 11:56:11 GMT -5
It already did when that dimwit got re-elected.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Dec 17, 2012 12:00:39 GMT -5
It already did when that dimwit got re-elected. Hey, I voted for that rich dude with the fancy underwear.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 17, 2012 12:00:46 GMT -5
Clearly indicated it has been changed? Where? I would like to see this.
And I'm not going to apologize for not seeing this. I'm still not really seeing any SBMM. In fact, I'm going to go out on a limb and say it doesn't exist. That is, let me rephrase....it doesn't exist to any material degree over and above what existed before. At best, maybe they tweaked something in the settings, but it was a minor tweak. Listening to 3A say it's in there now, isn't a revelation. They have said it existed before. It's always existed before. SBMM even occurs after every post game lobby, where the people are reshuffled. This has been going on for six plus years now.
And yes...I know people have filled the board with anecdotal evidence, tons of stories, all this 'stuff' about how they are seeing better players, every lobby they play is filled with studs, all this going on....but I think it's mostly a case of people wanting to find it, so they look for it. Reality is, better players are online when a game comes out. Also, BO2's mostly non-stacking KS system makes it much harder for an individual (and also group) to control a map, therefore making winning (and killing) harder. This is a fact. KD's and WL's will be lower in Black Ops games, versus MW games. The sooner people acknowledge this, rather than blaming boogeyman, the faster people can move on and just enjoy this game for what it is.
I'll be glad to eat crow, admit i am wrong, if someone can find something from David Vonderhard saying BO2 has increased something in the SBMM from before.
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Dumien
True Bro
Black Market Trader
No engrams. Only disappointment.
Posts: 3,292
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Post by Dumien on Dec 17, 2012 12:15:50 GMT -5
The ghost that pushed the chair. Is it really there?
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 17, 2012 12:31:41 GMT -5
A lot of things can push the chair...and people don't even realize it's not a ghost.
Seriously. Better players return when a new game comes out. So better players are online initially. You don't know the maps, you die more. You aren't using guns you later have nailed down to perfection. You haven't figured out 'how' you play best. Even down something simple like this......It's not yet xmas CoD hunting season, which annually boosts KD's around the world at least by 20%. For example, two years ago (BO1), my KD during the 12-25 to 1-6 time period jumped up to around 1.90 for that time period. Before that, from the game's initial release up to xmas, i had been meandering around 1.30 to 1.50.
A lot of people have short memories. I don't.
Two years ago.....same point in time, my BO1 WL record was 301-76 (3.96) after about 51 hours of initial playing. Eight dashboard losses, for a 'real' WL record of 301-68 (4.42). As of last night, after prestiging, i was 329-40 (8.23), with 18 dashboard losses. A 'real' WL rate of 354-26 (13.61)...with four of those losses in League play and a few goofing around matches in TDM. Apples to apples, i'm winning more. So i'm certainly not facing better players in greater numbers. The above is echoed throughout most of my clanmates too. Same or similar results in terms of winning.
KD ratios are definitely down though. I know mine is relative to where it was in BO1. At same points in time, my BO2 KD is around 1.25, where in BO1, it was around 1.43. A 12% drop. Is that really that much of a difference? No. How about with MW3? KD's are down drastically from MW3. Our clan KD is now at 1.14, compared to 1.45, that's a 22% drop from MW3, but as discussed, that is to be expected. The KD boost in MW3 was around 20 to 25%. To date, in BO2, the KD killstreak boost is running around 5%. Almost all of the 70 guys in our clan, their KD 'drop' can be explained by the Scorestreak factor being harder in BO2. (not to mention, it's not fair to compare an ENDING KD in MW3, after a full year of fine tuning, with an initial KD in BlackOps 2)
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asasa
True Bro
fuck
Posts: 4,255
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Post by asasa on Dec 17, 2012 12:40:52 GMT -5
Clearly indicated it has been changed? Where? I would like to see this. And I'm not going to apologize for not seeing this. I'm still not really seeing any SBMM. In fact, I'm going to go out on a limb and say it doesn't exist. That is, let me rephrase....it doesn't exist to any material degree over and above what existed before. At best, maybe they tweaked something in the settings, but it was a minor tweak. Listening to 3A say it's in there now, isn't a revelation. They have said it existed before. It's always existed before. SBMM even occurs after every post game lobby, where the people are reshuffled. This has been going on for six plus years now. And yes...I know people have filled the board with anecdotal evidence, tons of stories, all this 'stuff' about how they are seeing better players, every lobby they play is filled with studs, all this going on....but I think it's mostly a case of people wanting to find it, so they look for it. Reality is, better players are online when a game comes out. Also, BO2's mostly non-stacking KS system makes it much harder for an individual (and also group) to control a map, therefore making winning (and killing) harder. This is a fact. KD's and WL's will be lower in Black Ops games, versus MW games. The sooner people acknowledge this, rather than blaming boogeyman, the faster people can move on and just enjoy this game for what it is. I'll be glad to eat crow, admit i am wrong, if someone can find something from David Vonderhard saying BO2 has increased something in the SBMM from before. Did anyone ever say anything about SKMM in MW3 or BO? No. It was probably there, but so minimal that no one ever noticed it. Most people have their K/D & W/L ratios increase as every new CoD comes out [except that it might differ slightly from 3arc and IW games]. BO2 breaks this trend where almost everyone has a reduced K/D or W/L. Is it just that the maps are THAT terrible? Is it the lag? Or maybe we have catch-up code! Maybe vonderhaar reduces my health because my K/D is high, that's probably it. No, wait. Everyone gets ESP wallhacks against me! It's preposterous. The players. Are. Better. [FOR ME] When I first played BO2 I was astounded by how quickly I died to people. It made no sense.. the guns are weaker now, and have higher recoil considering their damage.. yet I die quicker than before. First I thought lag, but that didnt hold true when I noticed I couldnt win much more than half of head to head gunfights even when there was no noticeable lag. I'd see them, aim, shoot just like them.. but I couldnt win. Why? People were smarter. They use mind bulletsed and didnt blindly walk out of cover. Strategically placed equipment. Classes that made sense. People ran to critical areas at the beginning of matches... this is stuff I had never seen before unless playing against a skilled party in previous CoDs. Then when SKMM became a theory, I doubted it, but tested it along with others. Our results showed that higher K/Ds are matched with higher K/Ds and vice versa. Repeatedly. You say, "NUH UH, I DUN SEE IT" You are fully capable of doing your own testing, but apparently this theory is too preposterous for you. Little while later Mousey gets some quotes from David collected and shows us some graph Davie made showing something to do with SKMM. No comment from you. Now we have an article stating clearly that SKMM is part of the algorithm.. AHEAD of connection quality.. and its still, "NUH UH, I DONT SEE IT!" What the hell is needed to convince you? Oh, I know! If it were W/L based. Guess what, you'd be crying QQQQQQQQQQQQQQ. You've got your cute little grudge against K/D and anything related to it. And your hate towards people with high K/Ds, oh hi! apparently because you cant get one. It's like you're a 5 year old. This attitude from someone of your age is ridiculous. ---- Oh, and I've never pre-ordered a CoD.. so that theory.. yeah. no. Plus that makes no sense anyway.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 17, 2012 13:03:42 GMT -5
Did anyone ever say anything about SKMM in MW3 or BO? No. It was probably there, but so minimal that no one ever noticed it. Most people have their K/D & W/L ratios increase as every new CoD comes out [except that it might differ slightly from 3arc and IW games]. BO2 breaks this trend where almost everyone has a reduced K/D or W/L. Right here. You are wrong. Take the issue of winning. Treyarch games, especially BO1 and now BO2, are harder to win at than IW games. This is a fact. Look at the map design (use of tails). which discourages spawn trapping, etc...and most of all, the killstreak factor (Stacking vs non-stacking). It's easier for one person to control a map, when they can put up Strafes and Pavelows multiple times during a game. And if a lot more people have lower WL ratios....it's due to the heavy amounts of increased quitting, which is documented. In MW3 and MW2, if a person dashed, they didn't get a loss. In BO2, you now get a loss. So right there, WL ratios will NOW be lower as quitters are being brutalized on their WL ratios. This is why you see just downright abysmal WL ratios everywhere now. That's reality. So with winning, you can't compare the two games as changes have been made. It's not apples to apples. People will not see incremental increases Right. I am fully capable of testing. Why is why i just listed my week by week results right above, (which you conveniently ignored of course) comparing BO1 to MW3 to BO2. Down the actual win, loss, kills and deaths from prior games. Then also did the same for close to 70 other people in my clan, whose data I also have. As I said above, MY TESTING is only showing a group aggregrate KD ratio drop of about 21%. While that is a drop, ...before one screams in horror about SBMM.....again, one has to consider the Score-Streak issue. Plus comparing end of year KD's versus initial one month KD's in BO2. When one tries to normalize the two numbers....it's really not that much of a drop for the 70 players. Kind of splitting hairs. No overall SBMM. Lag would seem to be a better culprit.. Mousey showed a tweet from Dave mentioning that SBMM exists. Then later, another quote from him, saying it existed before. I did quote on that extensively, that Dave's quotes on SBMM leave us in murky waters, as we have no clue if things have been increased from before. Just that it was used before....and is still used now. That's not what I said....no need to act like some pencil necked b1tch pulling the above ALL CAP stuff at me. What I said is...again...screw it, read above. It's there. Again, learn to quote accurately. Fix your bra straps. I've stated at least five times what I would like to see. A comment from Dave qualifying if things have been increased from before. That's all. It's not a huge deal. As it is, i don't care how things are done with the present SBMM because as I explained above, i'm not really seeing it. (oh the horror). I only used the WL stat above because that is a number i had available to track things from prior years. Don't like it? Deal with it. I also included the KD ratio up there too, so i have nothing against that. I'm not the one typing in ALL CAPS like you are up there, making up stuff i never said. I was being quite reasonable up to this point with my comments and explaining in detail exactly why i think the way i do. it was you who jumped in screaming in ALL CAPS ,behaving like some pre-menstrual woman.
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GoHarvard
True Bro
It's not that serious.
Posts: 390
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Post by GoHarvard on Dec 17, 2012 15:02:23 GMT -5
I said this before when I was complaining about lag. I didn't think I was really facing better opponents than usual because of their play style. Guys getting kills after blindly walking past corners. I'm use to people having to pre-fire while strafing out to have a chance to win out in that situation. So I never really believed the players I was being matched up against were significantly better than they were in the past. It was the same typical players from previous COD games that just sprint sprint sprint and don't think. On BO2 during the early weeks they just weren't being punished for it because of the weird lag.
In recent week(s) the lag hasn't been so erratic for me or my friends. And it's clear that they were making changes to the net code because for two days there was unusual things going on with people having unplayable lag in multiple different lobbies. After that I started noticing a lot of matches where both me and an east coast friend had a solid 4 bars which can't be possible considering we're on opposite sides of the country so only one of us could be local to the host. Obviously things were changing without an official title update for us to download. With that said, whatever changes they made have worked out for the better (for me) because I get a lot less BS deaths now.
Back to the SBMM topic: I still don't see MM as being that much different from MW3 and BO1 considering most players I see are south of 1.3 and plenty are south of 1.0.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 17, 2012 15:16:01 GMT -5
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Slick
True Bro
Taking the piss
Posts: 1,015
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Post by Slick on Dec 17, 2012 15:30:56 GMT -5
Nice nice, but your large pic is gonna rape those poor old monitors everyone complains about. o.o
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GoHarvard
True Bro
It's not that serious.
Posts: 390
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Post by GoHarvard on Dec 17, 2012 15:32:29 GMT -5
poor Why Not didn't even get to confirm a single kill.....
Edit: And I thought PC players were suppose to be ballers. I haven't even seen a party full of split screening noobs on Xbox do that bad.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 17, 2012 15:33:04 GMT -5
I think people really need to read, what David Vanderhard actually said. Not what they think he said. And then with that, read the actual words in this post about matchmaking. Skill has always been a part of matchmaking with CoD games. People are whining now, but it has been around in the past CoD games. They have all had it, and to quote Dave..."to varying degrees of success". What more proof does one need that this isn't some brand new tool being used? It's freaking old stuff.
He has also said skill is a 'small factor' in matchmaking too. Small means small. This is confirmed by this thread, which clearly states that this system (which was around in past games, people just weren't aware)...has a very "Loose Criteria". Meaning there should only be some tweaking at the extreme ends of things. "Loose" means loose. To quote again..."A player of very high skill should generally not get matched to games where the average skill of players is very low,".....Again, that doesn't say a 2.50 KD player, or a 450SpM player, is always going to get other 450SpM players, which is what people are claiming. Not all of you are superstars.
And also, that step is adjusted by the reality that the search for games also goes by ping, bandwidth between you and the host, and NAT compatibility. There might not simply be any matchable players around at all, so you are going to get dumped into a lobbies of scrubs or pros at times. Sh1t happens. The system can't be perfect.
So people complaining of doing well....there is no evidence so far or actual statements that claim a NEW system is in place, matching up supposed superstars like yourself, with other superstars. If anything, it's the same old system in place, and maybe tweaked, to at most, let's say over 20 lobbies, REDUCE the number of scrubs you are seeing. If you truly are a superstar, at worse, you are now getting mediocre players a small bit more, rather than raw scrubs.
In Assasa's case.....is the above really worth it THAT much to have multiple accounts, and the high KD one's being protected? Jesus. Ort others talking about tanking league matches, so you can try to jimmy the system, finding almost imperceptible degrees of easier opponents? Man the fvck up. Take off the bras.
Here's the deal. How much more....and how it's measured, is anyone's guess and the only real point to discuss. It might be the same amount as before, it might be 2.31% more, who knows. Nothing has been said and probably won't. Why would they discuss it? One comment by Dave on something that has been around forever, has a large pct of the player base pulling their hair out and acting like pvssies, how their 'playing' is compromised. And this doesn't even address the real issue, that perhaps the initial lag issues were blurring the effect of just how well people thought they were doing.
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Slick
True Bro
Taking the piss
Posts: 1,015
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Post by Slick on Dec 17, 2012 15:39:47 GMT -5
Mine was marginally bigger with people b itching up a storm, it's too big.
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markopolo
True Bro
Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
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Post by markopolo on Dec 17, 2012 15:43:01 GMT -5
"skill" is such a broad term.
A buddy of mine, just to mess with his clan and opponents will let his GF play... and she holds the PS3 controller like it is covered in a mixture of frog slime and dog $hit.... she'll go 2-25 for a game or two.... and then he'll come on and go 30-2.
Or else, she'll perform acts that will distract him.... and he'll just stop playing and enjoys what she's doing.
He's rich and she's an blond bimbo gold digger who likes to be naked a lot.
yea............
yea....
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 17, 2012 15:46:56 GMT -5
"skill" is such a broad term. A buddy of mine, just to mess with his clan and opponents will let his GF play... and she holds the PS3 controller like it is covered in a mixture of frog slime and dog $hit.... she'll go 2-25 for a game or two.... and then he'll come on and go 30-2. Or else, she'll perform acts that will distract him.... and he'll just stop playing and enjoys what she's doing. He's rich and she's an blond bimbo gold digger who likes to be naked a lot. yea............ yea... . props
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markopolo
True Bro
Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
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Post by markopolo on Dec 17, 2012 15:51:00 GMT -5
"skill" is such a broad term. A buddy of mine, just to mess with his clan and opponents will let his GF play... and she holds the PS3 controller like it is covered in a mixture of frog slime and dog $hit.... she'll go 2-25 for a game or two.... and then he'll come on and go 30-2. Or else, she'll perform acts that will distract him.... and he'll just stop playing and enjoys what she's doing. He's rich and she's an blond bimbo gold digger who likes to be naked a lot. yea............ yea... . props 2 main differences 1. The girl in the pic is actually holding the controler... the GF does this hybrid thing of using her left index finger to move... and her right index finger to shoot... she never aims or touches any other buttons... just run and hipspray.... funny, because he does that too when... nevermind... got distracted 2. She wears less clothing
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markopolo
True Bro
Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
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Post by markopolo on Dec 17, 2012 16:00:36 GMT -5
I thought it was common knowledge that removing your pants made you better at call of booty. Correction in red
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GoHarvard
True Bro
It's not that serious.
Posts: 390
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Post by GoHarvard on Dec 17, 2012 16:08:18 GMT -5
2 main differences 1. The girl in the pic is actually holding the controler... the GF does this hybrid thing of using her left index finger to move... and her right index finger to shoot... she never aims or touches any other buttons... just run and hipspray.... funny, because he does that too when... nevermind... got distracted 2. She wears less clothing Only thing I find odd about that is you knowing so much about it.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 17, 2012 16:08:27 GMT -5
my wife doesn't like to play this game, so this one is out for me.
She does like DanceMasters, the kinect game.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 17, 2012 16:22:13 GMT -5
I thought it was common knowledge that removing your pants made you better at call of duty. My KD went up to 1.7 from 1.2 after I started playing exclusively while naked.
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danoski666
True Bro
"He ran off the wall like a ninja!"
Posts: 2,484
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Post by danoski666 on Dec 17, 2012 16:23:38 GMT -5
my wife doesn't like to play this game, so this one is out for me. She does like DanceMasters, the kinect game. KILL IT WITH FIRE!
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markopolo
True Bro
Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
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Post by markopolo on Dec 17, 2012 16:25:40 GMT -5
The Wii is great for couples, as well as the Kinect and Sony Move....
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Dumien
True Bro
Black Market Trader
No engrams. Only disappointment.
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Post by Dumien on Dec 17, 2012 16:27:28 GMT -5
So volgon is pretty much the best Call of Duty player ever....
Interesting.
We need chuck norris jokes....but in Call of Duty form.
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Usagi
True Bro
Grin and Barrett
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Post by Usagi on Dec 17, 2012 16:33:31 GMT -5
sags was probably hosting :u I'll have you know that my K/D is 1.14 and climbing so neener neener.
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danoski666
True Bro
"He ran off the wall like a ninja!"
Posts: 2,484
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Post by danoski666 on Dec 17, 2012 16:38:58 GMT -5
Volgon had only 22 tags and 54 kills. Not good enough!
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Post by osvald2020 on Dec 17, 2012 16:56:37 GMT -5
TDM KDR is 2.16 and SPM is 269. I'm pretty much always at the top of the lobby leaderboard and rarely get matched up with people above 2.0 or even above 1.5. 9 out of every 10 games everyone else in the lobby is in the 0.8 to 1.2 KDR range. SPM numbers vary too much, so that can't be part of the criteria either. If there is SBMM, it doesn't work well. This is how it is when I play solo or with a group. I have a k/d of 1.90 and have SPM 410 but my problem isn't PDW tryhards but is instead railgunners who won't miss a single during the match and who happen to have so good connection that they can kill faster with sniper than i can with scorpion or any other gun for that matter.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 17, 2012 17:01:58 GMT -5
So volgon is pretty much the best Call of Duty player ever.... Interesting. We need chuck norris jokes....but in Call of Duty form. he's like 37 on pc leaderboards or some s hit. its cray 37 out of what? Like 112 people? Props.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 17, 2012 17:04:42 GMT -5
He's not ranked 37. He's ranked 7.
(Or was, last I checked.)
The main leaderboard is score and nothing but score, so make of that what you will.
In volgon's defense, he's ranked high on all the other leaderboards as well, however.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 17, 2012 17:08:21 GMT -5
He's ranked 12 now.
Clearly, this is the hand of SBMM at work.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 17, 2012 17:15:54 GMT -5
send him to the home office for an update
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