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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Feb 9, 2013 21:42:47 GMT -5
Does anyone think that "Kick" was well balanced, and that the other proficiency options were equally compelling? I though Kick was balanced. There's no problem with a 10% reduction in recoil (but was it a center speed modification or actual recoil modification?) but Proficiencies as a whole were poorly balanced with each other. Honestly they were a stupid idea altogether. How is having 2 attachments a kind of learned weapon skill? Anyway, Kick should have been manifested in the form of an attachment (grip for all weapons) because the other MW3 attachments would offer more competition to it than the other Proficiencies. I think the real frustration with the Kick proficiency came from some of the MW3 weapons having way too little recoil for the amount of damage they dealt. I only got annoyed with Kick when I saw it on the ACR and PP90M1. While a 20% cs increase may be a little bit too much for non-LMGs, I think a minimum of 10% is fair when you are spending a whole point on it. Personally I think about 15% should be the value. Then again, most BO2 guns are already lower recoil than BO1, so that's probably why they made the grip's effect is so negligible. They probably wanted to make sure BO2 didn't turn into a pure lazor beam fest.
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Feb 9, 2013 21:59:00 GMT -5
mousey you know what i'm talking about. I'm asking whether Kick increased centerspeed or decreased the actual kick values in each direction
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Post by Marvel4 on Feb 9, 2013 22:01:42 GMT -5
It reduces viewkick and gunkick by 10%.
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Feb 9, 2013 22:03:48 GMT -5
thank you.
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Post by brutalonslaught on Feb 10, 2013 9:28:53 GMT -5
MMS does affect recoil in some way. Been using it with select fire on the SWAT and it's definitely more laserlike.
Could be a placebo because of the sight itself.
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Post by Morshu on Feb 10, 2013 11:09:41 GMT -5
It reduces viewkick and gunkick by 10%. Do you know how much a centerspeed percentage increase would have to be in order to match a 10% recoil reduction?
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Feb 10, 2013 11:43:37 GMT -5
It reduces viewkick and gunkick by 10%. Do you know how much a centerspeed percentage increase would have to be in order to match a 10% recoil reduction? In general, it will depend on the gun and its parameters, assuming you have a consistent way to "measure" recoil to begin with. You can have a look at my recoil statistics here and look at the effect different attachments/proficiencies have on the recoil of your weapon of choice -- if you trust that my method of measuring recoil is sound. You should be able to see that each attachment and proficiency has a different relative benefit for each weapon. For example, in MW3, the Kick proficiency (-10% to all four ViewKick parameters) gives an overall recoil reduction of -45.8% to the M4A1, whereas the same -10% reduction to ViewKick gives the ACR a benefit of -50.6% to its recoil. Same mechanic, different result.
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Post by Morshu on Feb 10, 2013 12:12:54 GMT -5
Do you know how much a centerspeed percentage increase would have to be in order to match a 10% recoil reduction? In general, it will depend on the gun and its parameters, assuming you have a consistent way to "measure" recoil to begin with. You can have a look at my recoil statistics here and look at the effect different attachments/proficiencies have on the recoil of your weapon of choice -- if you trust that my method of measuring recoil is sound. You should be able to see that each attachment and proficiency has a different relative benefit for each weapon. For example, in MW3, the Kick proficiency (-10% to all four ViewKick parameters) gives an overall recoil reduction of -45.8% to the M4A1, whereas the same -10% reduction to ViewKick gives the ACR a benefit of -50.6% to its recoil. Same mechanic, different result. Ok that makes more sense. But I'm still confused on the comparison between % recoil reduction and % centerspeed increase. Is it too complicated to explain?
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Post by lackingdamage on Feb 10, 2013 12:19:57 GMT -5
If treyarch was worried about the grip would it not make more sense to change the value for each weapon. So one SMG 10% another 2% etc Also I wonder which weapon they was most worried about grip being over used on. If it had 10% bonus or whatever the old value was.
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Amirror
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Post by Amirror on Feb 10, 2013 12:24:59 GMT -5
I'm sure they can make Grip work differently for each weapon/weapon class. Just make SMGs get a slightly smaller bonus than ARs and LMGs, and LMGs get the biggest bonus of the three, and ARs get a bonus about between those two. (Ex: 9% Centerspeed increase for SMGs, 11% increase for ARs, 13% increase for LMGs.) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Something irrelevant. www.points2shop.com/?ref=uin1364159345In this site you can earn points by doing offers in which you can use to get items for free! Signup now through this link, it helps me too! The more referrals I get, the better!
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Feb 10, 2013 13:47:58 GMT -5
I never understood why people want different weapons to receive different percentages for the same attachments. That always seemed counter-intuitive to me and completely out of sync with the definition of balance. The only way an attachment can be balanced for all weapons is if it is a flat multiplier and isn't biased toward any specific gun. Should be anywhere from 10% to 15% but it needs to be consistent with every weapon in the game. If it's a 10% bonus for one AR but 15% for another, you're obviously never going to use the grip on the 10% rifle and always going to use the grip on the 15% rifle.
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Feb 10, 2013 15:01:46 GMT -5
If it's a 10% bonus for one AR but 15% for another, you're obviously never going to use the grip on the 10% rifle and always going to use the grip on the 15% rifle. Gun A has immense recoil but the grip reduces the recoil by 50%. Still kicks a lot. Gun B has a little recoil but the grip reduces recoil by 10%, effectively making it a laser. Enjoy using Gun A.
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Brick2urface
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Post by Brick2urface on Feb 10, 2013 15:30:28 GMT -5
Damnit moose you could have got him to do a video showing how shit the blops 2 shotguns are compared to previous cods. Instead we get a rabbit with scorpions.
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Post by ecomni on Feb 10, 2013 15:37:06 GMT -5
I don't think a video is needed for that. Anyway that remembers MW2 shotguns minus pre-patch Akimbo Winchesters knows that BO2 shotguns (or any Treyarch CoD shotguns) are just gimped for seemingly no reason.
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Post by ecomni on Feb 10, 2013 15:44:01 GMT -5
Yeah, I remember that. After the patch, I think the Akimbos were just gonna be bad no matter what, but I think they could've made a standalone Winchester good by giving it just a tiny amount more range than the SPAS.
But then I had all of these chaotic nightmares about everyone and their mama running around with dual 1887s killing me from an ARs effective range for months, so I didn't really give a crap that the gun got nerfed to irrelevance.
I still miss MW2 shotguns though. If only they were primaries in any other CoD game.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Feb 10, 2013 15:56:57 GMT -5
In general, it will depend on the gun and its parameters, assuming you have a consistent way to "measure" recoil to begin with. You can have a look at my recoil statistics here and look at the effect different attachments/proficiencies have on the recoil of your weapon of choice -- if you trust that my method of measuring recoil is sound. You should be able to see that each attachment and proficiency has a different relative benefit for each weapon. For example, in MW3, the Kick proficiency (-10% to all four ViewKick parameters) gives an overall recoil reduction of -45.8% to the M4A1, whereas the same -10% reduction to ViewKick gives the ACR a benefit of -50.6% to its recoil. Same mechanic, different result. Ok that makes more sense. But I'm still confused on the comparison between % recoil reduction and % centerspeed increase. Is it too complicated to explain? It's not that its too complicated to explain, it's that it's too complicated to understand. It's just outright impossible to say with a CenterSpeed increase of +x% what kind of relative improvement in recoil you will get for any given gun -- at least not without doing a plot or firing that gun for yourself.
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Post by otisman666 on Feb 12, 2013 11:04:11 GMT -5
The thing that I find disturbing, sad, annoying (pick one), is that when the issues are first brought up, they are instantly dismissed. There is no "hey go check this out real quick so I can shut these people up", it's just "the community is wrong, we are right".
I was stunned when this happened more then once in MW3, then again multiple times with ELITE (different group), but then to have it happen again in BO2?
The rant could go on, but why bother.....
Nice work people, great idea on the artwork BTW, we could make a whole thread on Driftor's psych profile just analyzing that thing.
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Post by -3055- on Feb 12, 2013 13:39:51 GMT -5
Make the current recoil value for all guns right now what they should be with grip. Make the stock weapon have a 25% decrease in centerspeed than what they have now.
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Post by -3055- on Feb 12, 2013 13:51:28 GMT -5
I like guns with recoil. None of these guns have recoil, except maybe the scar.
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Post by -3055- on Feb 12, 2013 13:59:35 GMT -5
It'd just be nice to not be instakilled, especially with such high aim assist (console) and lag.
Also, it'd be a stealth buff to shotguns. heheh
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Feb 12, 2013 15:28:45 GMT -5
I agree with -3055-, the CoD never fails to dissapoint in the recoil department...
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Feb 12, 2013 16:03:49 GMT -5
But that's what COD is: Hitscan no-recoil lazor beam fests. When I'm in the mood for recoil I go play BF3, and when I want the absolute most realistic weapon handling, i play MoH:W. I really don't care if COD has no recoil, plenty of other games do
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Feb 12, 2013 16:08:58 GMT -5
I dont play a game just so it can have recoil. I like CoD. I just want CoD to have recoil.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Feb 12, 2013 16:15:44 GMT -5
But if guns on average had more recoil, then the differences can be more pronounced. I mean, is the AN94 being pretty accurate that much of a difference from the M27 having next to no recoil? Not really, so the AN94 is just superior.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Feb 12, 2013 17:10:09 GMT -5
Honestly, I have no idea what youre trying to say in the first part.
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Post by bucket415 on Feb 12, 2013 17:10:54 GMT -5
Battlefield patched loads of recoil into their guns. I hate the BF guns. Not a single advantage to use anyone over the other. Gay.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Feb 12, 2013 17:13:14 GMT -5
And that is a byproduct of recoil, NO OTHER EXPLANATION
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Brick2urface
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Post by Brick2urface on Feb 12, 2013 17:17:32 GMT -5
I don't think you have played bf3 much if you don't think there is a reason to use a variety of weapons. Try using the AEK at long range and try using the ak 74 or m416 in close range when everyone else takes aek's. You will notice a significant advantage for a certain gun in both scenarios.
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Feb 12, 2013 18:46:07 GMT -5
Standard: 1.020 On SMGs: 1.015 exactly what I thought, I stopped plaing core games 10,000 kills ago. play HC, equip a handgun as yr primary, kills pretty good any range, grab silencer or Ext Mag if needed, 3-6 perks, 1-4 equipment and maybe asault shield if 1 point free .... forget core. sad that instead of polishing MW2 - idiots deliver us new doo-dooty games one after the other to get more $.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Feb 12, 2013 18:48:55 GMT -5
Why a handgun? What merit could it possibly have in HC? In core theyre good.. but..?
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