probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Mar 16, 2014 13:52:37 GMT -5
Here are the weapon statistics for the Ripper in no particular order. (There will be some "obvious" ones here, sorry for the redundancy):
SMG (Default) Mode
ADS FoV: 55* ADS in, out: 0.25s, 0.25s Magazine size: 32 Fire Time: 0.062s (968 RPM theoretical, 900 RPM at 60 fps) CenterSpeed (ADS, Hip): 1500, 1600 First Raise Time: 1.8s Penetration: Low Starting Ammo: 96 rounds Maximum Ammo: 192 rounds Damage (Max, Min): 34, 24 Damage Multiplier (Head): 1.5 Range (Min, Max): 384u, 768u Melee Damage: 135 Melee Delay: 0.08s Melee Time, Charge: 0.8s, 1.16s Reload Time, Empty, Add: 3.1s, 3.33s, 1.767s Drop, Raise Time: 0.433s, 1.0s Quick Drop, Raise Time: 0.25s, 0.766s Empty Raise, Drop Time: 0.9s, 0.5s Sprint in, loop, out: 0.23s, 0.58s, 0.25s Movement Speed, ADS: 100%, 80% Hipspread (Stand Min, Max; Crouch Min, Max; Prone Min, Max): 3.0*, 6.0*; 2.5*, 5.25*; 2.25*, 4.5* Idle Amount, Speed, Crouch, Prone: 30.0, 4.0, 0.75, 0.4 Gun Max Pitch, Yaw: 6.0, 6.0 ADS Gun Kick ReducedKickBullets: 0 ADS Gun Kick (Pitch Min, Max; Yaw Min, Max; Accel; SpeedMax; SpeedDecay; StaticDecay): -15, 0; 30, -30; 700; 2600; 35; 10 ADS View Kick (Pitch Min, Max; Yaw Max, Min; MinMagnitude): -50, 50; 50, -50; 10 ADS Spread: 0.0* Hip View Kick: (Pitch Min, Max; Yaw Max, Min; MinMagnitude): -40, 60; 50, -50; 0
Assault Rifle Mode
Every statistic not mentioned here can be assumed to be the same as it is in the default mode
ADS FoV: 50* Fire Time: 0.089s (674 RPM theoretical, 600 RPM at 60 fps) Range (Min, Max): 960u, 1920u
Edit: Corrected ADS in/Out times as per Marvel's reply.
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Post by Ironforce92 on Mar 16, 2014 17:52:48 GMT -5
Isn t ads time 0.25?
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Mar 16, 2014 18:31:31 GMT -5
Oops, you're right: it's 0.25s for the AR mode.
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banana
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Post by banana on Mar 16, 2014 20:07:53 GMT -5
Seems lame.
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egumption
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Post by egumption on Mar 17, 2014 0:39:20 GMT -5
Suspicions confirmed, then...this gun's damage profile is pretty bad.
SMG: ~10.4m 3BTK ~19.2m 4BTK, inf 5BTK AR: ~26m 3BTK, ~48 4BTK, inf 5BTK
The only saving grace is the recoil. Makes it an easy gun to use. Maybe that's why it got a lot of hype with the early release. Easy to use, but anyone who can control a statistically better gun (damage-wise) is going to beat you. Also, the wall penetration is still "Low" in AR form, apparently? Doesn't help. The AR form seems pretty useless.
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Post by Voice from the Basement on Mar 17, 2014 2:56:28 GMT -5
What does "*" in Spread mean? And what about Reload Add time?
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Post by Marvel4 on Mar 17, 2014 5:39:28 GMT -5
Actually, ADS time is 0.25 seconds for both modes. It never uses the default since you can't remove the sight.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Mar 17, 2014 6:27:17 GMT -5
Suspicions confirmed, then...this gun's damage profile is pretty bad. SMG: ~10.4m 3BTK ~19.2m 4BTK, inf 5BTK AR: ~26m 3BTK, ~48 4BTK, inf 5BTK The only saving grace is the recoil. Makes it an easy gun to use. Maybe that's why it got a lot of hype with the early release. Easy to use, but anyone who can control a statistically better gun (damage-wise) is going to beat you. Also, the wall penetration is still "Low" in AR form, apparently? Doesn't help. The AR form seems pretty useless. Well, it is also not as bad as you make it sound. It is not a top tier weapon, but it is actually still very usable. The 960u/1920 min max range of the AR version is actually really good for an SMG! put on rapid fire and it easily takes over the niche of the Vector with muzzle break (840/1200 min max). Especially because you can still increase the ROF by switching to SMG mode. It is not overpowered nor underpowered. They did a good job IMHO. Also in SMG mode, a RPM of 968 (900) is really good for a 3-5 hk gun. Other 20 min damage guns need RF to get to that fire rate. And while the 4HK happens pretty fast, its 5HK range is actually pretty good! By range, RoF and min damage it outclasses the Bison and CBJ in allot of ways (especially if you include that you could switch against long range targets) The real problem the gun has is the same as the vector had, its niche is being a SMG which can handle mid range and as a result: the Mtar (esp with RF) says hello. I would rate the SMG's like this right now: Mtar: 4hk min, and same RoF as most SMG's with rapid fire Vepr: sprint out time, free's up one point Ripper: It gives you the ROF of a RF mtar close up, while giving you AR mode for mid range (only if you can't handle the Mtar with RF recoil) K7: yeah I know allot think it is bad, but it has a really long 3HK range for a silencer SMG, just don't try to kill enemies on mid-long range Rest is pretty much outclassed by any (or multiple) of the above So I can't say it only saving grace is the recoil, but I am glad is is not in the first place. p.s. what would the sprint out time be of the ripper? looks like 0.25 but I have no idea what sprint in and loop mean?
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Mar 17, 2014 10:45:11 GMT -5
What does "*" in Spread mean? And what about Reload Add time? That's just a terrible substitute for the degree symbol . Also: A bunch of corrections have been made. (Thanks, Marv.)
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Post by -3055- on Mar 17, 2014 13:50:53 GMT -5
Do you know if this gun has a minimum magnitude recoil value like with some other guns?
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Post by Ironforce92 on Mar 17, 2014 14:16:20 GMT -5
The question now is: Bizon or Ripper? Bizon has better 3hk range, faster ads, bigger magazine and less idle sway
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Post by thegentleman on Mar 17, 2014 14:32:10 GMT -5
That's not even a question to me. The Bizon is basically comparable to the ripper in SMG mode, but doesn't have the ability to effectively engage targets at long ranges. For me, the AR mode might be *Slightly* statistically inferior to a lot of other ARs, but it's easier to kill a distant target than it is with many other guns in that class (namely, the CZ805, AK-12 with the new recoil values, the ARX, and the FAD if you're just having one of those days). Besides that, the three extra points it frees up by not having to use Stalker has allowed me to make some extremely versatile classes and not feel undergunned. I use it almost exclusively in AR mode with occasional switches back to SMG when indoor spaces are tight.
I also just cannot hit shit with the MTAR at longer ranges, especially with Rapid Fire, so despite how great a lot of people say that gun is, I haven't gotten it to work spectacularly well for me in approximately 10 days of playtime, even using god knows how many different class and weapon setup combinations.
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Post by Ironforce92 on Mar 17, 2014 17:53:06 GMT -5
Agree with you.. I can t hit anything while i m using the mtar but for smaller maps i think that the bizon is more effective( strikezone, free fall, fog , tremor, etc). Overall the ripper is more adaptable
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banana
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Post by banana on Mar 17, 2014 21:06:38 GMT -5
The more I think about this gun the better it sounds (nice job IW). Like thegentleman said if you think of it as an slightly inferior AR w/ a cqc mode it's pretty good. Depending on the recoil it'll be top tier with rapid fire making it a longer ranged SC2010 w/ bizon mode. Plus free stalker!
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Post by kylet357 on Mar 18, 2014 2:42:27 GMT -5
So there's no first shot recoil reductions or anything? I'm just wondering.
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Post by -3055- on Mar 18, 2014 6:44:26 GMT -5
"ADS Gun Kick ReducedKickBullets: 0"
According to probaddie no recoil reduction
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probaddie
True Bro
You're triggering my intelligence
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Post by probaddie on Mar 18, 2014 16:54:45 GMT -5
Do you know if this gun has a minimum magnitude recoil value like with some other guns? It's right there beside the other ViewKick numbers (10).
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Mar 19, 2014 11:33:16 GMT -5
meh, at least it's not an OP pay-2-win DLC weapon. i think the gun has enough going for it to be competitive, but when I got my try-hard pants on, i'll probably never use it.
I was kinda hoping the AR mode would get a recoil reduction from the SMG mode but I suppose it's already low enough.
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Post by kylet357 on Mar 19, 2014 13:23:39 GMT -5
Well, it does technically get a recoil reduction via the slower fire rate. Not an actual recoil reduction (recoil profile, centerspeed, etc.) but it's good enough to lower the recoil a bit from what I saw.
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Post by Voice from the Basement on Mar 21, 2014 2:50:55 GMT -5
Drift0r said that SMG-version of Ripper does not get firerate increase with Rapid Fire on. I know "Drift0r said" already sounds absurdly, but there's an excuse for me using it: Ripper is only available for Xbox users. Is there any mention of such a thing in game files?
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probaddie
True Bro
You're triggering my intelligence
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Post by probaddie on Mar 21, 2014 5:48:49 GMT -5
Drift0r said that SMG-version of Ripper does not get firerate increase with Rapid Fire on. I know "Drift0r said" already sounds absurdly, but there's an excuse for me using it: Ripper is only available for Xbox users. Is there any mention of such a thing in game files? Assuming a constant 60 fps, yes, that's right. Since the theoretical firetime of the SMG mode with rapid fire (0.062s * 0.85 = 0.0527s) is above 0.05s (1200 RPM, or 3 frames) the gun will take 4 frames to fire every round, i.e., 0.066s (or 900 RPM).
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Post by sirknumskull on Mar 21, 2014 9:01:59 GMT -5
I only had a chance to pick up a gun from some one who obviously modified the game files on PC, so no real experience, but the stats make it seem like a really viable option on PC.
If you go for AR mode with RF and silencer you'll receive a Honey Badger with has slightly weaker versions of Quickdraw and Stalker built in, has a slightly better 4 HK range and a larger magazine. I use Stalker on every single AR class I have, so that would really give me more freedom to do something with the perks.
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banana
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Post by banana on Mar 21, 2014 12:02:41 GMT -5
and a free bizon but I like to use grip + rapid fire + silencer so the free 3 points is mitigated.
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Post by Voice from the Basement on Mar 21, 2014 12:34:50 GMT -5
Drift0r said that SMG-version of Ripper does not get firerate increase with Rapid Fire on. I know "Drift0r said" already sounds absurdly, but there's an excuse for me using it: Ripper is only available for Xbox users. Is there any mention of such a thing in game files? Assuming a constant 60 fps, yes, that's right. Since the theoretical firetime of the SMG mode with rapid fire (0.062s * 0.85 = 0.0527s) is above 0.05s (1200 RPM, or 3 frames) the gun will take 4 frames to fire every round, i.e., 0.066s (or 900 RPM). Just like the Bizon and CBJ-MS? Thanks, that's what I was suspecting.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Mar 21, 2014 15:12:11 GMT -5
I'm much more excited to use this in AR mode than SMG mode, which is not surprising since I barely touch the SMGs anymore.
I assume it will become the default AR of choice for HC mode, given it has better handling statistics, the 1HK range is actually middle of the pack for ARs, and with rapid fire it will fire as fast as any other AR on console.
Is anyone using it with Deadeye? It seems like it could potentially be useful - even though it does not drop it to a 2hk, one Deadeye hit increases the 3hk range by 50%, and makes it a 4hk at any distance.
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Post by h4nn1b4lsm1th on Mar 22, 2014 14:54:54 GMT -5
I'm much more excited to use this in AR mode than SMG mode, which is not surprising since I barely touch the SMGs anymore. I assume it will become the default AR of choice for HC mode, given it has better handling statistics, the 1HK range is actually middle of the pack for ARs, and with rapid fire it will fire as fast as any other AR on console. Is anyone using it with Deadeye? It seems like it could potentially be useful - even though it does not drop it to a 2hk, one Deadeye hit increases the 3hk range by 50%, and makes it a 4hk at any distance. Agree, there are so many combinations for an AR with stalker, quickdraw, steady aim and lightweight by default. I hope it comes soon. Logically it has to be available at April 5th.
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Mar 22, 2014 22:23:27 GMT -5
Drift0r said that SMG-version of Ripper does not get firerate increase with Rapid Fire on. I know "Drift0r said" already sounds absurdly, but there's an excuse for me using it: Ripper is only available for Xbox users. Is there any mention of such a thing in game files? Assuming a constant 60 fps, yes, that's right. Since the theoretical firetime of the SMG mode with rapid fire (0.062s * 0.85 = 0.0527s) is above 0.05s (1200 RPM, or 3 frames) the gun will take 4 frames to fire every round, i.e., 0.066s (or 900 RPM). lol cod engine... They could have taken the generation-transition opportunity to make the engine not think in frames but NOPE.
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Post by sirknumskull on Mar 23, 2014 7:33:36 GMT -5
If they ever do that, they will lose a lot of appeal. If you separate tickrate and framerate you will get less responsiveness and higher input lag. This argument is 15 years old at this point (Q3A vs UT) and we can clearly see which engine has prevailed. The most popular FPS on PC are still based on the core of id tech 3 (Source is a development off of id tech 3 and so is the IW engine).
Not convinced? The german hardware magazine PC Games Hardware did a test with a highspeed camera and modified input equipment to test actual input lag from action (mouseclick) to reaction (shots fired on screen). The result was that BF4 had not only very inconsistent response times, but also it's input lag averaged three times as high as that of a Source game (roughly 25ms to 75ms). BF3 & BF4 may be prime offenders with their horrendous 10 Hz tickrate, but even at a tickrate of 1000 Hz (which would generate massive performance problems on a consumer machine) you wont get the one to one response of a framerate induced tickrate.
lol cod engine? More like lol Frostbite. Fancy graphics are not a substitute for working internals, you filthy casual!
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probaddie
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You're triggering my intelligence
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Post by probaddie on Mar 23, 2014 7:39:26 GMT -5
Assuming a constant 60 fps, yes, that's right. Since the theoretical firetime of the SMG mode with rapid fire (0.062s * 0.85 = 0.0527s) is above 0.05s (1200 RPM, or 3 frames) the gun will take 4 frames to fire every round, i.e., 0.066s (or 900 RPM). lol cod engine... They could have taken the generation-transition opportunity to make the engine not think in frames but NOPE. Every game thinks in frames; firing your gun always needs a frame in which to render that event. The problem with Call of Duty (and Quake-based games generally) is that the counter that measures the time since your weapon last fired resets on the frame on which you fire. That is why (assuming a constant framerate) your weapon always takes the same number of frames to fire the next shot. The only improvement that could be made is to have a separate timer (for automatics) that runs independently and have that trigger a shot whenever the counter has exceeded a multiple of the fireTime. (I admit I am oblivious to any technical difficulties that might arise by implementing this.) For example, say you have a weapon that fires at 750 RPM and you run the game at 60 fps. The first four shots still take 5 frames to fire after the previous one (0.08s < 0.0167s * 5 frames, 0.16s < 0.0167s * 10 frames, etc.) but the fifth shot will only have to wait 4 frames (0.4s < 0.0167s * 24). This pattern would continue to repeat until the gun stops firing and still doesn't truly correlate to a "true" RPM of 750, but it is closer.
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probaddie
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You're triggering my intelligence
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Post by probaddie on Mar 23, 2014 7:43:16 GMT -5
If they ever do that, they will lose a lot of appeal. If you separate tickrate and framerate you will get less responsiveness and higher input lag. This argument is 15 years old at this point (Q3A vs UT) and we can clearly see which engine has prevailed. The most popular FPS on PC are still based on the core of id tech 3 (Source is a development off of id tech 3 and so is the IW engine). Not convinced? The german hardware magazine PC Games Hardware did a test with a highspeed camera and modified input equipment to test actual input lag from action (mouseclick) to reaction (shots fired on screen). The result was that BF4 had not only very inconsistent response times, but also it's input lag averaged three times as high as that of a Source game (roughly 25ms to 75ms). BF3 & BF4 may be prime offenders with their horrendous 10 Hz tickrate, but even at a tickrate of 1000 Hz (which would generate massive performance problems on a consumer machine) you wont get the one to one response of a framerate induced tickrate. lol cod engine? More like lol Frostbite. Fancy graphics are not a substitute for working internals, you filthy casual! Yeah, there's this idea too (decoupling tickrate and framerate, allowing hitscan calculations to happen off-frame). But I think sirknumskull already explained adequately why that sucks.
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