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Post by TheHawkNY on Jul 16, 2014 10:44:45 GMT -5
They should make 6 to 8 Large Maps (at launch). Then just block off sections of the map to configure it for certain game modes & number of players. You can have up to 5 versions of the same map. Logic would be required for this, which COD devs don't seem to employ very often. The PS3 game WarHawk did this very well. You do realize that cutting the number of maps included with the game in half would result in an enormous number of valid, legitimate complaints, right?
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Post by bucket415 on Jul 16, 2014 15:18:00 GMT -5
They should make 6 to 8 Large Maps (at launch). Then just block off sections of the map to configure it for certain game modes & number of players. You can have up to 5 versions of the same map. Logic would be required for this, which COD devs don't seem to employ very often. The PS3 game WarHawk did this very well. You do realize that cutting the number of maps included with the game in half would result in an enormous number of valid, legitimate complaints, right? But it wouldn't because it would be 6x5 or 7x6. So there would actually be more. See pics for a quick and rough example... Based on MW2 Wasteland. So of course the full version would be map 1. Everything to the right of the blue line would be version 2. Everything to the left of the blue line would be version 3. Everything to the north of the blue line would be version 4. Everything to the south of the blue line would be version 5. Everything in the bottom south west corner would be version 6. Everything south of the line would be version 7. Of course the smaller versions would be best for Deathmatch. The larger maps would be better for Domination & CTF. Mid size would be better for KC & TDM, etc. The others just give you some fun alternates, with different strategies, depending on the game mode. Hopefully & eventually, COD games will offer a larger variation of different amounts of players, outside of the standard 12 & 18. The different size maps work better for 4x4, 6v6, 8v8, 10v10 & 12v12. All of those were possible in Warhawk.
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Post by bucket415 on Jul 16, 2014 15:23:43 GMT -5
Again, these wouldnt be my final submissions for a finished game, just an example of what I mean / possibilities. There would be a lot of thought necessary as to what works best for what game mode & amount of players, because as we know, one size does not fit all.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jul 17, 2014 9:40:56 GMT -5
So, the first thought is that it would be confusing for players. Say you forget if you're on version 3 or 5 (because half of the map of each is the exact same), and try to go someplace that isn't there. Or how generally confusing it is when there are maps where everything looks the same and you have no idea where you are when you spawn. For someone with 10 days played, this might not be a huge issue, but for someone just picking up the game, it's confusing. And it makes it more difficult for players to pick up new gamemodes - if you switch from TDM to an objective mode, you'd have to learn not just the complexities of the mode, but also maps you haven't played before, meaning you'll do even worse and the game is less accessible for new players.
Second, they would get absolutely destroyed from a PR perspective by their players for doing this. People would say they're making half the maps, just re-using the same garbage and trying to sell it again. When they include an old map in the DLC, they completely remake it just to avoid the perception that they're completely recycling old content.
Third, who would this convince to buy the game that otherwise would not have? This seems geared at making maps better for the objective gamemodes, which are less popular and generally have the more experienced players. But the players of those gamemodes already enjoy COD with the maps as is. So for existing players, it's probably not going to influence the purchasing decision. For new players, it doesn't seem like it would be useful in attracting them in any way.
Finally, how confident are you really that the developers would be able to successfully make maps like these, which have a much higher level of complexity than the maps they have been making for years?
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 17, 2014 11:32:45 GMT -5
If you have always given players 15/16 maps with a game, then suddenly give them 8, you are taking something away. People don't like that.
That might have contributed a little bit with CoD this year. CoD has had GW for many games now. Offering players the opportunity of going 9 v 9. Then with Ghosts, suddenly IW announces they can't do it? Bvllshit. The community didn't believe that bs. They just viewed as it as the game taking something away.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jul 17, 2014 11:45:04 GMT -5
We already talked about how Titanfall addresses the CoD issues. Today let's look at how Destiny plans to do it (PS4 beta starts today): www.ign.com/articles/2014/07/17/destiny-lead-designers-pvp-multiplayer-tips-a-ign-first1) Address camp ing and encourage player movement 2) Address killstreaks 3) Addresses map control 4) Encourage teamwork a) Ammo crates sharable among teammates nearby; b) Successfully using a Super will generate Orbs of Light for any allied teammates in the private loot stream With these two, coordinations among teammates on ammo crate control & super usage are great strategy.
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 17, 2014 11:59:05 GMT -5
The above, and TitanFall....all that stuff is nice. But it is mostly irrelevant. It all depends on how players evaluate their skill. Take CoD. You could put the above Destiny stuff in the game, do what TitanFall does, and it still won't make any difference in how the overall gameplay is, because the KD ratio (and it's placement as the unofficial/official measurement of skill) will be still be sitting there shining like a beacon, reminding everyone how good they think they are.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jul 17, 2014 12:03:58 GMT -5
The above, and TitanFall....all that stuff is nice. But it is mostly irrelevant. Take CoD. You could put the above stuff in the game, do what TitanFall, and it won't make any difference in how the overall gameplay is, because the KD ratio (and it's placement as the unofficial/official measurement of skill) will be still be sitting there shining like a beacon, reminding everyone how good they think they are. KD issue is always going to be there. It affects all games. Players need something to feel good and brag about, and the best one to use for shooter games is K/D. The job of the game developers is to a) encourage player movement (aka discourage camp ing, and b) encourage teamwork. If these two work in synergy with player's selfish goal of high K/D, the game can become much more enjoyable for everybody.
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 17, 2014 12:07:26 GMT -5
Well, it won't always be there.....if the KD isn't there. It can be hidden or removed. Like how TitanFall hides it. There are dozens upon dozens of things a player can brag about. It doesn't have to be KD.
This is what CoD Developers don't get. Back to the topic of the thread. It's a core issue causing gameplay to suck. People just don't realize how much it sucks, because all the other FPS games the past four years, have tried to copy the suckage going on in CoD, with just variation of suckage. No where to go, so you play CoD. And even the developers. They can encourage and add junk to make movement happen (eg; AW adding rocket boots), but at the end of the day, if the community views one stat as the only thing that matters, the changes will only be small. CoD has allowed this ridiculously stupid stat (one of 100's of stats in CoD) to singlehandedly dictate how every game mode plays, literally how the entire CoD plays. And worse yet, they have allowed a stat that is just ridiculously easy to manipulate and boost, compounding the problem.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jul 17, 2014 12:19:48 GMT -5
Well, it won't always be there.....if the KD isn't there. It can be hidden or removed. Like how TitanFall hides it. There are dozens upon dozens of things a player can brag about. It doesn't have to be KD. This is what CoD Developers don't get. Back to the topic of the thread. It's a core issue causing gameplay to suck. People just don't realize how much it sucks, because all the other FPS games the past four years, have tried to copy the suckage going on in CoD, with just variation of suckage. No where to go, so you play CoD. And even the developers. They can encourage and add junk to make movement happen (eg; AW adding rocket boots), but at the end of the day, if the community views one stat as the only thing that matters, the changes will only be small. CoD has allowed this ridiculously stupid stat (one of 100's of stats in CoD) to singlehandedly dictate how every game mode plays, literally how the entire CoD plays. And worse yet, they have allowed a stat that is just ridiculously easy to manipulate and boost, compounding the problem. IMHO Titanfall's approach of hiding the stats is one reason why fewer people are playing Titanfall, and even fewer people making a fuss about the game on the social media (YT, Twitch, etc). Even with the stats hidden, most (> 50%) of the players will still go for KD. It's human nature. In Titanfall, you'll have players camp hard at flags in Hardpoint DOM even when their team only has one flag, or players roaming around the flags only going for kills in CTF even when their team is behind, not that different from CoD. But think of a world in which the ways to get high K/Ds are a) to move around aggressively, and b) to coordinate with teammates proactively. IMHO it is the ideal world for an FPS player to be in.
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 17, 2014 12:37:09 GMT -5
Yeah. Hey, I just read this, about the Destiny beta. How about that PS network? www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2014/07/17/psn-buckles-under-the-weight-of-the-destiny-beta.aspx?utm_content=buffer3890a&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=bufferIf you’re trying to redeem your Destiny beta voucher or download the content, you might be having some problems. That’s because everyone is trying to get in at the same time. The PSN store is buckling under the weight of an uncountable number of Guardians rushing to the Tower. We’re currently getting an error message that says, “The service is currently undergoing maintenance - E-820001F7.” We think that translates to, “Ouch.” Sony is reporting via its support page that the service is “Intermittently Available,” which we think means, “Your mileage may vary.” This assumes you can even get your vouchers, as the Bungie website is also experiencing significant problems. Ultimately, this means you probably won't be playing as soon as you'd like. We’ll keep you posted as this situation develops.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jul 17, 2014 12:40:34 GMT -5
Yeah. Hey, I just read this, about the Destiny beta. How about that PS network? www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2014/07/17/psn-buckles-under-the-weight-of-the-destiny-beta.aspx?utm_content=buffer3890a&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=bufferIf you’re trying to redeem your Destiny beta voucher or download the content, you might be having some problems. That’s because everyone is trying to get in at the same time. The PSN store is buckling under the weight of an uncountable number of Guardians rushing to the Tower. We’re currently getting an error message that says, “The service is currently undergoing maintenance - E-820001F7.” We think that translates to, “Ouch.” Sony is reporting via its support page that the service is “Intermittently Available,” which we think means, “Your mileage may vary.” This assumes you can even get your vouchers, as the Bungie website is also experiencing significant problems. Ultimately, this means you probably won't be playing as soon as you'd like. We’ll keep you posted as this situation develops. Check out Destiny thread on PSN bros' experience so far: denkirson.proboards.com/thread/6829/bungies-destiny?page=12The redeem & download experiences are not great, not disastrous either.
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 17, 2014 12:45:26 GMT -5
uh, there doesn't look like any experience yet. The network isn't working.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jul 17, 2014 12:48:44 GMT -5
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 17, 2014 12:50:46 GMT -5
That's an interesting page, showing the stats. Question. Is that truly a good measurement? For example, hasn't CoD moved off of Twitch, and now being used by the MLG system?
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jul 17, 2014 12:54:13 GMT -5
That's an interesting page, showing the stats. Question. Is that truly a good measurement? For example, hasn't CoD moved off of Twitch, and now being used by the MLG system? MLG is no match to Twitch (IMHO they should not even try). I think that they can only force the competitive streaming off Twitch, which are not that popular anyway generally speaking.
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 17, 2014 13:00:51 GMT -5
I am watching some of the Destiny Twitch channel
"LIRIK"
They ripped off Cortana from Halo. WTF.
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 17, 2014 13:02:15 GMT -5
I mean mlg does their own mlg stuff with cod but its not like theyve replaced it for streaming or anything. Cod is still on twitch but its not ranked high, only ~3k viewers or so for ghosts. Right. But my point was, a lot of the heavy hitters have moved off of Twitch, and went to MLG. Like Nadeshot for example. That would make CoD's numbers on Twitch appear much smaller than what they truly are.
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Jul 26, 2014 6:57:58 GMT -5
> What are the core issues with the series?
MW2:Nuke removal.
it made ALL higher killstreaks (9+) an obsolete nuisance in MW3, BO2 and Ghosts, vital part of the game (and fun) rotted.
without Nuke (and Nuke-challenges) there is NO POINT to stay ingame (for any lone player) when opponents call a "chopper gunner" or whatever it was called later, and to try to destroy it.
there is no point to select higher killstreaks as well.
Threat of Nuke consolidated the team, Lodestar/Helo Pilot (LOL) is just: blahh .... <quit>, fu 3arc/IW, fight it yourself idiots.
think think ....
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banana
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Post by banana on Jul 26, 2014 11:41:17 GMT -5
I am watching some of the Destiny Twitch channel "LIRIK" They ripped off Cortana from Halo. WTF. Aren't both games from the same developer
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Post by GodMars on Jul 26, 2014 11:51:25 GMT -5
I am watching some of the Destiny Twitch channel "LIRIK" They ripped off Cortana from Halo. WTF. Aren't both games from the same developer Yes. And Cortana isn't exactly an original idea either. Tropes are tropes.
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Post by hard1ine on Jul 27, 2014 15:36:06 GMT -5
The two "core" issues across all the CoD games are spawns and servers.
CoD needs dedicated servers on all matches at all times; IW lied (again) when they said they were going to have dedis, then only had them for a few matches.
Spawns don't need an explanation; even on Ghost's Battlefield sized maps, people still spawn in awful locations.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Jul 28, 2014 0:46:44 GMT -5
Dedicated Servers aren't an end all be all to connectivity. Battlefield 4 has beautifully proven this through their shitty connectivity.
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Post by kylet357 on Jul 28, 2014 2:16:51 GMT -5
To be fair he is right in that thsy promised dedis and just gave a half assed system that involved dedis sometimes. To be fair again, it is a step forward at the least.
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wings
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Post by wings on Jul 28, 2014 2:45:31 GMT -5
Oh a COD dev lying now? This is not news. 3arc did the same with Noobtown 2025.
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Post by kylet357 on Jul 28, 2014 7:19:30 GMT -5
Oh a COD dev lying now? This is not news. 3arc did the same with Noobtown 2025. What did they say about it? If they said anything about it being a fast paced, action packed, fun map, then they were definitely lying (Nuketown, imo, is just above Free Fall and Shipment for worst maps in the series).
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wings
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Post by wings on Jul 28, 2014 8:11:55 GMT -5
Oh a COD dev lying now? This is not news. 3arc did the same with Noobtown 2025. What did they say about it? If they said anything about it being a fast paced, action packed, fun map, then they were definitely lying (Nuketown, imo, is just above Free Fall and Shipment for worst maps in the series). That it would be available 24/7. It was heavily marketed to promote the game and when it got removed from the public playlists there were quite a few complaints. Then it got put in with the rest of the maps under standard rotation and then people like myself got tired of constantly leaving lobbies because Nuketown got voted (there's no map rotation notifier in COD unfortunately). You couldn't even quit before spawning to save your WL stats if you cared for it. So I ended up lumping it and found a good setup to piss off people who keep voting this map with a Target Finder LMG. If the shotguns were competitive I'd have had so much fun. Imagine pre-nerfed akimbo Models on Nuketown 2025.
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Post by kylet357 on Jul 28, 2014 8:23:19 GMT -5
What would have been a good idea is to add some sort of underground tunnel or something that leads from one of the garages to the other. It would change the pace up a bit, and take some pressure from the top of the map. Of course you'd still have to deal with Bouncing Betties and Shock Charges, but at least the game won't slow down because someone on the other side of the map can lock it down because they have a TF LMG.
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Jul 28, 2014 9:10:08 GMT -5
What did they say about it? If they said anything about it being a fast paced, action packed, fun map, then they were definitely lying (Nuketown, imo, is just above Free Fall and Shipment for worst maps in the series). That it would be available 24/7. It was heavily marketed to promote the game and when it got removed from the public playlists there were quite a few complaints. Then it got put in with the rest of the maps under standard rotation and then people like myself got tired of constantly leaving lobbies because Nuketown got voted (there's no map rotation notifier in COD unfortunately). You couldn't even quit before spawning to save your WL stats if you cared for it. So I ended up lumping it and found a good setup to piss off people who keep voting this map with a Target Finder LMG. Nuketown2025. 1st floor. Window. LMG + TF + FMJ and the Shield / use mind bullets + immunity to explosives. Brutal spawnkilling 24/7. Another one: overkill with 1. MMS sight to see thru buses; if spotted: Fast swap. 2. FMJ to finish him. Wat a map!
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banana
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Post by banana on Jul 31, 2014 0:12:38 GMT -5
Oh a COD dev lying now? This is not news. 3arc did the same with Noobtown 2025. What did they say about it? If they said anything about it being a fast paced, action packed, fun map, then they were definitely lying (Nuketown, imo, is just above Free Fall and Shipment for worst maps in the series). Nuketown is my favorite map bruh
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