|
Post by TheHawkNY on Jul 31, 2014 9:06:59 GMT -5
Seriously, what are you guys talking about? Quote from Mark Rubin, source here. They did not promise that every game would be played on a dedicated server. Not only that, but the system that they have in place works extremely well. I never worry about whether I have a decent connection in Ghosts, never have to think about it, where it was top of mind in every previous COD title. Out of the 5,330 games I've played, at maximum I've experienced 5 host migrations. So if the overwhelming majority of games aren't played on dedicated servers, they should probably focus their incredible skills at something more important than creating an algorithm to predict which player will not back out of a game of Call of Duty.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 31, 2014 11:13:06 GMT -5
^^ I will second Hawk's comments. IW did no wrong on that front.
While I have some issues with Ghosts, I can't really complain about lag/hosting/connectivity/matchmaking. CoD Ghosts is night and day better than BO2. I clearly remember last summer, trying to play GW. Sitting with a group of seven to eight other friends, and sitting there for 10 minutes, 20 minutes, sometimes even 45 minutes before we all basically gave up trying to find a game. I don't think I even played GW the last four months of the game. It was broken. Moving on, like Hawk said, I don't remember the last time I saw a host migration in Ghosts? Does it even happen? BO2? I would see ten host changes a night. And then the quitting/crashing. One out of 16 games in BO2 would fail. That number is probably around 1 in 100 in Ghosts. Even league play in BO2 sucked. The last few months of League Play was nothing but a DoS festival. Game after game after game. Again, I gave up on that too.
Compare Clan Wars to BO2's league play? Night and day difference. With Clan Wars, the developers of the system (Beachhead), they openly tweet back questions to you. I routinely chat with guys like Felix Gallo and he actually resolves issues in real time (like under an hour). The guy is a f'ing machine, in terms of the work he does. I've seen him and his people listen to complaints, and in a week or two, fix problems. Communication back and forth, 24/7. One would be hard pressed to find ANY other video game out there where the developers have that much interaction. So it goes without saying, that's what has made Clan Wars such a success. The only major issues of Clan Wars are things kind of outside the control of Beachhead. They overestimated the skill of the CoD playerbase, getting ahead of themselves. 90% of the CoD does not have the skill to handle the game, as it should be played. That is reality.
Quick thought on lag. I do get frustrated with Ghost's lag issues, but I think the issue here is not the game. The problem now is I have another game to compare it too (titanfall), and if you have done the TF experience, it's very very tough to go back to Ghosts.
|
|
|
Post by GodMars on Jul 31, 2014 11:22:42 GMT -5
Seriously, what are you guys talking about? Quote from Mark Rubin, source here. They did not promise that every game would be played on a dedicated server. Not only that, but the system that they have in place works extremely well. I never worry about whether I have a decent connection in Ghosts, never have to think about it, where it was top of mind in every previous COD title. Out of the 5,330 games I've played, at maximum I've experienced 5 host migrations. So if the overwhelming majority of games aren't played on dedicated servers, they should probably focus their incredible skills at something more important than creating an algorithm to predict which player will not back out of a game of Call of Duty. 2 host migrations for me in Ghosts, and the only time I really had any latency issues was during a weeklong stretch were there were network issues unrelated to the game.
|
|
Dumien
True Bro
Black Market Trader
No engrams. Only disappointment.
Posts: 3,292
|
Post by Dumien on Jul 31, 2014 11:46:26 GMT -5
Yeah I almost never had host migrations, but I did have alot of laggy games where I wished I could see everyone's connectivity bars.
But you can't.
|
|
wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
|
Post by wings on Jul 31, 2014 12:49:04 GMT -5
Well it was laggy as fuck for me when I lst played Gun Game on Ghosts. Bars mean nothing. Seen a MW2 video of someone using actual ping numbers on the Xbox.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 31, 2014 12:58:25 GMT -5
Every game on the CoD series has had lag in varying degrees.
|
|
hebbnh
True Bro
Cacodemon expert
Posts: 2,688
|
Post by hebbnh on Jul 31, 2014 13:43:55 GMT -5
I've read through most of this thread as it's evolved, and one thing that I don't recall being mentioned is the simple fact that CoD4:MW came out in late 2007. We've been playing more or less the same game for close to 7 years. I wonder how much of the "core issues" boil down to the fact that after 7 years, everyone is just burnt out to at least some extent, even though they may not realize it. Personally, I'd rank the games that I've played like this: MW2 > MW >> W@W = MW3 >>>>> BlOps. I play TDM almost exclusively, so the Nuke farming nonsense in objective modes in MW2 had no effect on me. I only played BlOps and MW3 for about a month apiece before going back to MW2 and then eventually switching over to Battlefield (which has enough issues of it's own that I'm probably done with that series too).
BlOps never felt like CoD to me, the movement and flow of everything just never felt right. The sound was weird, weapon balance was non-existent, everything was just...off, and I didn't care for it at all. No thank you.
MW3 was miles better, but I hated the maps and wasn't thrilled with the direction they went with the perks, especially splitting up all the stealth stuff. I think that probably was due to my preferred playstyle, which was either silenced/cold-blooded run & gun or stopping power overwatch/sniping area denial. I probably could've adapted, but I also had a terrible time with connection issues. It was either god-mode or rage-quit mode with very little in-between for me, so it didn't really matter what playstyle I used anyway, and I went back to MW2 where I could be effective using styles I already enjoyed.
W@W was kinda weird. Looking back I'm not really sure why I played it as much as I did, because it had terrible weapon and perk balance, so-so maps, and those tanks (which for some reason didn't bother me like they did seemingly everyone else). Yeah, just weird. The gore was kinda fun though! And that headshot sound!
MW gets a pass for most of its issues since it's what started the whole thing off, but it too had plenty off issues in retrospect. Weapon balance really wasn't great, some perks were useless, nuclear grenades (3 of them!), death-choppers, no host migration, etc. But goddamn was wrecking lobbies while run & gunning with UAV jammer and a silenced MP5 fun!
MW2 was the pinnacle of the series in my mind. Commando knifing, the aforementioned nuke farming, death streaks, and OMA/danger close/tube aside, the game was just fantastic, and even those issues are overblown in my opinion. Almost every map supported multiple playstyles. Shotguns were actually usable and effective. Even the guns that were outclassed (looking at you F2000) were still fun. I mean, if there was a patch that took out the negatives I listed above, that'd be just about the perfect CoD, right? Or has nostalgia clouded my judgement?
Going through that list, the biggest issue with the series is that it peaked 5 years ago, and the devs didn't realize MW2 was a couple small changes away from perfection. Instead they decided to ditch or neuter a bunch of the perks based on whining from a bunch of people that don't have any clue what the word "balance" really means. And then they decided to go with the "Pick 10" system, which I never experienced, but appeared to neuter perks even more. All while turning the maps into "17 different ways to get anywhere so you're never safe no matter how many corners you check" clusterfucks. At least that's what I got out of it.
|
|
wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
|
Post by wings on Jul 31, 2014 13:55:37 GMT -5
Every game on the CoD series has had lag in varying degrees. I know. This was horrific though but then there were people from Spain in he lobby and it was bad with them in BO2. Overall, I found MW2 the best and, most of the time, I'd be playing people in my own country.
|
|
|
Post by TheHawkNY on Jul 31, 2014 14:02:23 GMT -5
Yeah I almost never had host migrations, but I did have alot of laggy games where I wished I could see everyone's connectivity bars. But you can't. Well it was laggy as fu ck for me when I lst played Gun Game on Ghosts. Bars mean nothing. Seen a MW2 video of someone using actual ping numbers on the Xbox. Just to clarify - the devs delivered what they said they would, they did not lie. Between me, GodMars, and iw5000, we have 11,351 games played. We're reporting host migrations at a rate of roughly once every 1,000 games at most. Clearly almost every single game is hosted on a dedicated server. We're reporting no issues with lag that could potentially be issues with the host. They don't need to provide a visual representation of the ping, because backing out and finding a new lobby isn't going to do anything about it. Look, the most frequent complaint about the entire series was that it did not have dedicated servers and there is lag. They fixed that issue completely in Ghosts, without question. Now, if you have legitimate complaints about other aspects of the gameplay, I'm more than happy to listen. But if you're going to sit here and continue to complain about lag when it's clearly a problem on your end, you're just embarrassing yourself.
|
|
wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
|
Post by wings on Jul 31, 2014 14:27:55 GMT -5
Perhaps it runs better whilst being based in the USA? I get matchmaked with every European up to Russia. Other games work fine. Gears of War, no issues with lag. Call of Duty, yes. It's why I stopped playing it. What counts as a legitimate complaint about the gameplay anyway? Moaning about the Target Finder in BO2? Really now.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 31, 2014 14:48:52 GMT -5
To clarify my comments. I don't think I am getting on Dedis when playing on CoD Ghosts. But then again, I play Ghosts strictly on the 360. I have the disk for the XB1, but have only played like two sessions on it. I saw no lag. My friends play on the 360. I'm also not going to say I am always on the good side of the lag gods when playing on the 360. There are times when playing Ghosts, that I get into games where I can feel my movements jerking/starting-stopping,or feel like I am in quicksand, or just constantly lose 1v1 face offs. I want to kick a dog when that happens. But I feel this is something that is happening, more so lately, and I think it's due to the player counts now dipping well under 50k at times. You play at an odd time (Sat am, ET), there might only be 3,000 people in a Dom lobby, and one is completely at the mercy of the matchmaking system, being dumped in with someone far away.
In regards to lag, on the 360, I don't feel Ghosts is that bad. It has lag on the 360, just like the prior games, but it feels slightly less to me, or at least less games where lag is a factor. It is definitely much better than BO2. And when you include the other factors I mentioned: grouping up, lobby formation in GW, host migration, game crashing, dashboarding, matchmaking....Ghosts is heads and tails better than BO2. BO2 was broken the last five months.
Agree with Hawk on the developer's promises. They delivered what they promised. One can't complain to them about the above stuff.
|
|
wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
|
Post by wings on Jul 31, 2014 14:56:41 GMT -5
Oh I do think Ghosts is better than BO2 for connection issues but Ghosts isn't as good for me as other people on here. Some people might have experienced differing amounts during different titles. I remember MW3 where I'd be nearly a second behind the French players.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 31, 2014 14:59:15 GMT -5
What counts as a legitimate complaint about the gameplay anyway? Moaning about the Target Finder in BO2? Really now. Don't do that. While some whiners bring up stuff like that, there are plenty of legitimate complaints. To name a few: 1. Leaving out GW because they were trying to use it as bait to get people to buy the XB1/PS4 versions. 2. Putting in camo requirements like 'lean kill' for the sole purpose of getting people to use this new feature, which only slowed play. 3. Incorporating larger maps and not including GW. Again, this put to many big maps into the rotation, slowing down gameplay. 4. Putting in a dumb Objective point streak rule, where only the first guy to a dom flag, got points. Dumb. This reduced team play. 5. Making the best camo suit reward (Ghili suit), be tied into a ridiculous sniper goal of 850 chrome kills. Pouring gas on fire! Do you want me to go on? I could list at least another fifteen bonehead rookie developer mistakes that were made with Ghosts, that showed complete lack of awareness of just 'how' the community plays this game. Bonehead mistakes that led to an overall hurting of the gameplay experience.
|
|
|
Post by GodMars on Jul 31, 2014 15:09:21 GMT -5
As a gold-gun whore/collector, those forced tactical loitering camos really pissed me off.
|
|
wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
|
Post by wings on Jul 31, 2014 15:10:14 GMT -5
What counts as a legitimate complaint about the gameplay anyway? Moaning about the Target Finder in BO2? Really now. Don't do that. While some whiners bring up stuff like that, there are plenty of legitimate complaints. To name a few: 1. Leaving out GW because they were trying to use it as bait to get people to buy the XB1/PS4 versions. 2. Putting in camo requirements like 'lean kill' for the sole purpose of getting people to use this new feature, which only slowed play. 3. Incorporating larger maps and not including GW. Again, this put to many big maps into the rotation, slowing down gameplay. 4. Putting in a dumb Objective point streak rule, where only the first guy to a dom flag, got points. Dumb. This reduced team play. 5. Making the best camo suit reward (Ghili suit), be tied into a ridiculous sniper goal of 850 chrome kills. Pouring gas on fire! Do you want me to go on? I could list at least another fifteen bonehead rookie developer mistakes that were made with Ghosts, that showed complete lack of awareness of just 'how' the community plays this game. Bonehead mistakes that led to an overall hurting of the gameplay experience. Oh I agree with those. I'd have thought connectivity is though but apparently I'm mistaken. This was in response to someone who kept moaning about the Target Finder. That is something I expect from the official CoD forums.
|
|
|
Post by TheHawkNY on Jul 31, 2014 15:12:18 GMT -5
Perhaps it runs better whilst being based in the USA? I get matchmaked with every European up to Russia. Other games work fine. Gears of War, no issues with lag. Call of Duty, yes. It's why I stopped playing it. What counts as a legitimate complaint about the gameplay anyway? Moaning about the Target Finder in BO2? Really now. Ok, perhaps they need to increase their number of server locations. Or perhaps there simply aren't enough people playing on your closest location to find you a match, and it needs to connect you to a server further away. They clearly made vast improvements for the majority of players. I was not complaining about the Target Finder in BO2 in isolation. My complaint about BO2 with regard to Target Finder is that for a mediocre player in a non-objective gamemode, the best strategy is to use FJ+Toughness, toss down a Betty and a Shock Charge, stand behind a headglitch ADS with an LMG with Target Finder, and have the advantage in every gunfight regardless of whether the enemy knows their exact position. It's also that the counter to that strategy (Cold Blooded) is completely worthless in comparison to how other counters work in the series, in that it does not give you an advantage. In addition to other terrible aspects of the game.
|
|
Dumien
True Bro
Black Market Trader
No engrams. Only disappointment.
Posts: 3,292
|
Post by Dumien on Jul 31, 2014 16:12:54 GMT -5
They don't need to provide a visual representation of the ping, because backing out and finding a new lobby isn't going to do anything about it. Uh...yes...yes they do. When I am getting paired with people in Europe (found by checking region on gamercard) then there is a problem. Finding a new lobby will solve the problem. I never said anything about their promises. My complaint was with their lack of visual representation. I shouldn't have to go all the way to the dash to check to see why a lobby is behaving differently than normal. It should be... "oh...I'm the only person here with a 1 bar." Guess I should leave.
|
|
|
Post by noscreenname on Jul 31, 2014 16:30:37 GMT -5
But...but target finder reduces your peripheral visions.
Honestly, I never complain about being killed with a TF, used TF, and don't think it was a problem.
In the right hands it was deadly, but no more than a sniper at long distance, or an smg at close range.
My big take on this topic of what ghosts is missing is better killstreaks.
The IW series of cod games is like the Terminator Series. Terminator 1 was like Cod4. Cool and neat idea. 80s action movie style. 3/5/7 killstreaks was enough. Terminator 2 / MW2 blew up and had all kinds of cool stuff to keep your attention. Ac130s raining and all that. Terminatior 3 / MW3 was trying to live off of nostalgia too much and fell off with old tactics and crappy "support streaks" Terminator 4 / Ghosts tried to look more pretty and focus on story and left Arnold-esk killstreaks out. Also, "support streaks" No, I'm not high.
|
|
|
Post by kylet357 on Jul 31, 2014 20:04:54 GMT -5
Ever so ironically, as I say that Shipment is one of the worst maps they decide to bring it back for the last map pack (albeit, it does look a lot more interesting and has some stuff to slow it down a bit.
|
|
wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
|
Post by wings on Aug 1, 2014 13:56:10 GMT -5
Perhaps it runs better whilst being based in the USA? I get matchmaked with every European up to Russia. Other games work fine. Gears of War, no issues with lag. Call of Duty, yes. It's why I stopped playing it. What counts as a legitimate complaint about the gameplay anyway? Moaning about the Target Finder in BO2? Really now. Ok, perhaps they need to increase their number of server locations. Or perhaps there simply aren't enough people playing on your closest location to find you a match, and it needs to connect you to a server further away. They clearly made vast improvements for the majority of players. I was not complaining about the Target Finder in BO2 in isolation. My complaint about BO2 with regard to Target Finder is that for a mediocre player in a non-objective gamemode, the best strategy is to use FJ+Toughness, toss down a Betty and a Shock Charge, stand behind a use mind bullets ADS with an LMG with Target Finder, and have the advantage in every gunfight regardless of whether the enemy knows their exact position. It's also that the counter to that strategy (Cold Blooded) is completely worthless in comparison to how other counters work in the series, in that it does not give you an advantage. In addition to other terrible aspects of the game. I even played TDM at weekends to increase my chances of good lobbies but sometimes it meant I get shafted because I guess I increase my chances of playing with players who are using shared connections. It's not like as if I live in the middle of Siberia since I live ~ 30 miles away from London so poor player count within close proximity of my location is not an issue. If it was an old title I'd be more understanding. I'll be starting Crysis 3 soon when I'm done with the campaign on the second one, and if I access to multiplayer, I will see how that fares. The asame, too, with Ghost Recon Future Soldier (I appear to have a uPlay passport or something). Only other multiplayer shooter I've played recently is Bulletstorm and that didn't have any visible lag, e.g. rubber banding. Obviously, lag is more critical to get right in COD due to being a competitive shooter and the fast TTK. But I didn't notice anything bad with Destiny when I tried it as people seemed to have had the jump on me because I didn't know how to 'play' Crucible rather than rewind time not working, and a good 99% of my recently met players in the dashboard were all from the UK. Players only started using the shock and betty combination because the betty had its saving grace increased so only the slowest of players would fall victim to the bouncing betty. And if they have that slow reaction time they won't be doing very well anyway since the game heavily favoured running and gunning. If you ran Engineer and Scavenger and spammed EMP grenades you get free score and those shock charges were quite loud from what I remember. Cold Blooded wasn't the best, but I think in admitting to not using it, does your point no favours. I did think for Cold Blooded to compete against Toughness and Scavenger better that Ghost and Blind Eye should have merged with Cold Blooded. This is probably how the UAV had its score increased. People didn't want to counter a UAV with the Ghost perk because that is all it did and it was the last unlock too. However, stealth will never be effectively because of the presence of the mini map and the killcam. I had no issue with flushing out mediocre players in non-objective game modes who use the Target Finder though (TDM was my most played game mode). If they rely too much on the shape, they remain scoped in, and so cannot see you coming. It's not like they can hear you coming for you either. As I mentioned before, using the Crossbow bypasses Flak Jacket and I doubt these mediocre players you speak of would expect that.
|
|
|
Post by TheHawkNY on Aug 1, 2014 14:11:54 GMT -5
I can't decide which is worse - when you said that MW3 LMGs had better recoil than MW3 ARs and BO2 LMGs had worse recoil than BO2 ARs; or when you just recommended using the crossbow.
|
|
wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
|
Post by wings on Aug 1, 2014 14:27:13 GMT -5
I can't decide which is worse - when you said that MW3 LMGs had better recoil than MW3 ARs and BO2 LMGs had worse recoil than BO2 ARs; or when you just recommended using the crossbow. Is the Crossbow too skillful to use or something? Regardless, the player style you describe is nothing to be concerned about. I suggest upping your game.
|
|
|
Post by kylet357 on Aug 1, 2014 14:34:02 GMT -5
I think it's because the Crossbow is just...well, horrible. I'd rather use MW3 Grenade Launchers.
|
|
wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
|
Post by wings on Aug 1, 2014 14:42:35 GMT -5
I think it's because the Crossbow is just...well, horrible. I'd rather use MW3 Grenade Launchers. You have to be accurate, a direct hit, yes. That is how semtex works. I have used it myself - I usually use Dual Band with it. I'm not sure what the range is (if the semtex drops because of gravity) but I remember being killed with it on Drone across the two windows. It could have done with more power but then people cry over the power of explosives in COD so the whingers get their way. Regardless, I listed quite a few methods of dealing with TF LMG users to him some time ago and Hawk is just refusing to listen because he just doesn't like that play style. I don't see the point of players tactical loitering with the R870 in BO2 but I don't moan about it because I know it sucked. If LMGs had greater movement speeds (they were nerfed from MW3) then people wouldn't camp with them as much because you are not going to "run and gun" at the speed for a snail. Adjustable Stock and Quickdraw were best pony and people still cry over the Target Finder.
|
|
|
Post by TheHawkNY on Aug 1, 2014 14:49:20 GMT -5
I can't decide which is worse - when you said that MW3 LMGs had better recoil than MW3 ARs and BO2 LMGs had worse recoil than BO2 ARs; or when you just recommended using the crossbow. Is the Crossbow too skillful to use or something? Regardless, the player style you describe is nothing to be concerned about. I suggest upping your game. No, it's just that the Crossbow has such limited ammo capacity. I can use a tomahawk and retrieve it or pick up more using Scavenger. Are your lives so short that the Crossbow has enough ammo for you? I suggest upping your game.
|
|
|
Post by TheHawkNY on Aug 1, 2014 14:59:42 GMT -5
I think it's because the Crossbow is just...well, horrible. I'd rather use MW3 Grenade Launchers. You have to be accurate, a direct hit, yes. That is how semtex works. I have used it myself - I usually use Dual Band with it. I'm not sure what the range is (if the semtex drops because of gravity) but I remember being killed with it on Drone across the two windows. It could have done with more power but then people cry over the power of explosives in COD so the whingers get their way. Regardless, I listed quite a few methods of dealing with TF LMG users to him some time ago and Hawk is just refusing to listen because he just doesn't like that play style. I don't see the point of players tactical loitering with the R870 in BO2 but I don't moan about it because I know it sucked. If LMGs had greater movement speeds (they were nerfed from MW3) then people wouldn't camp with them as much because you are not going to "run and gun" at the speed for a snail. Adjustable Stock and Quickdraw were best pony and people still cry over the Target Finder. You seem to be focused on Target Finder, so let me try to make this more clear: I don't think TF is great, but it's not game breaking by any means. It's so far down the list of things that are bad about the game it really doesn't matter.
|
|
|
Post by Aphoristic on Aug 1, 2014 18:23:16 GMT -5
I don't get why they made the crossbow paint you on the map when you fired it. Did they fear it would be too powerful as a stealth weapon?
|
|
|
Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Aug 1, 2014 19:08:08 GMT -5
Crossbow was the single greatest weapon ever...to troll with. So much rage when people got killed by it.
|
|
|
Post by LeGitBeeSting on Aug 1, 2014 19:49:17 GMT -5
I don't get why they made the crossbow paint you on the map when you fired it. Did they fear it would be too powerful as a stealth weapon?
|
|
Usagi
True Bro
Grin and Barrett
Posts: 1,674
|
Post by Usagi on Aug 1, 2014 19:54:22 GMT -5
In BO2 I came so hard when I finally got the 5 kill streak I needed for diamond camo. It's super fun to use if you can actually hit people, which I can't most of the time. I used the triple shot attachment when I was going for the bloodthirsty to compensate for my terrible aim.
|
|