asasa
True Bro
fuck
Posts: 4,255
|
Post by asasa on Jan 29, 2015 9:55:13 GMT -5
Yeah, 3000 inches would be interesting since it still requires a body shot (...or head, but no neck??) For 2hk, but extends basically the whole map. I thought you had a great idea there. Just wish it was the real patch!
|
|
|
Post by pupilofcod on Jan 29, 2015 10:23:55 GMT -5
Sorry for getting your hopes up asasa. But lets say they did make 33 dmg out to infinity wouldn't that still cause uncertainty with long range kills? Like you said only a head or maybe body shot would change the btk while everything else would give hitmarkers? Let's see what happens....I will shut up now and go back under my rock until the next update.
|
|
fpsdredd
True Bro
Always working on the FPS metagame
Posts: 495
|
Post by fpsdredd on Jan 29, 2015 10:35:26 GMT -5
you had me excited those were real patch notes asshole SH has to know that the only thing that will make it viable is a decent 2hk. I have to disagree. 2 hit kill is too strong for THIS game. edit:for a gun that handles like this
|
|
|
Post by krapeh on Jan 29, 2015 11:00:57 GMT -5
SH has to know that the only thing that will make it viable is a decent 2hk. I have to disagree. 2 hit kill is too strong for THIS game. edit:for a gun that handles like this True, but that Lynx and the EPM3... (Sigh)
|
|
|
Post by noscreenname on Jan 29, 2015 11:05:30 GMT -5
SH has to know that the only thing that will make it viable is a decent 2hk. I have to disagree. 2 hit kill is too strong for THIS game. edit:for a gun that handles like this MW3 Mk14 was not OP. How would that same gun be too strong here when you have people bouncing and flying around like they do?
|
|
fpsdredd
True Bro
Always working on the FPS metagame
Posts: 495
|
Post by fpsdredd on Jan 29, 2015 11:28:57 GMT -5
I have to disagree. 2 hit kill is too strong for THIS game. edit:for a gun that handles like this MW3 Mk14 was not OP. How would that same gun be too strong here when you have people bouncing and flying around like they do? This game has higher bullets to kill
|
|
|
Post by Megaqwerty on Jan 29, 2015 12:05:25 GMT -5
SH has to know that the only thing that will make it viable is a decent 2hk. Hahaha, no. These guys thought 50 triple kills was a perfectly acceptable camo challenge on launch. With the original split second multi kill timer.
|
|
|
Post by noscreenname on Jan 29, 2015 12:11:45 GMT -5
Well, I think most people think it needs a decent 2hk. Whether or not that is implemented is another story.
As for right now, 3hk in cqc is gonna have you losing every time.
|
|
fpsdredd
True Bro
Always working on the FPS metagame
Posts: 495
|
Post by fpsdredd on Jan 29, 2015 12:30:10 GMT -5
Well, I think most people think it needs a decent 2hk. Whether or not that is implemented is another story. As for right now, 3hk in cqc is gonna have you losing every time. You raise a good point over whether or not 2hk at close range with the semi auto is balanced with 3hk at close range with a fully auto. Perhaps 2hk at less range will balance it? Assuming great accuracy with the semi.
|
|
|
Post by LeGitBeeSting on Jan 29, 2015 12:30:55 GMT -5
The only other option would be to make the EPM3 a scout marksman weapon.
Giving it max run speed and GAYCR recoil(SMG handling maybe?) would be sufficient to give it a niche.
|
|
fpsdredd
True Bro
Always working on the FPS metagame
Posts: 495
|
Post by fpsdredd on Jan 29, 2015 12:36:50 GMT -5
The only other option would be to make the EPM3 a scout marksman weapon. Giving it max run speed and GAYCR recoil(SMG handling maybe?) would be sufficient to give it a niche. EPM3 has a niche I think. High fire rate highly accurate 3hk at high ranges. Reason it was weak at launch was because of the hard to quantify bullet trail. How hard does that bullet trail really make it to use? Maybe people just need time to get used to it? That's what I'd be asking when balancing it.
|
|
|
Post by Megaqwerty on Jan 29, 2015 13:19:20 GMT -5
How hard does that bullet trail really make it to use? Maybe people just need time to get used to it? That's what I'd be asking when balancing it. Just get the fuck rid of it and it becomes a moot point.
|
|
fpsdredd
True Bro
Always working on the FPS metagame
Posts: 495
|
Post by fpsdredd on Jan 29, 2015 14:11:49 GMT -5
How hard does that bullet trail really make it to use? Maybe people just need time to get used to it? That's what I'd be asking when balancing it. Just get the Foxtrot rid of it and it becomes a moot point. Might as well just make the same game every year too. They likely ache for more stat points to toy with and this could be viable once they figure it out.
|
|
|
Post by Megaqwerty on Jan 29, 2015 14:17:57 GMT -5
Might as well just make the same game every year too. Yes, actually, if Activision wants the game taken seriously as a sport. A huge problem right now is that too much of the game changes literally every year for the game to establish itself. I do think game nomenclature should change to CoD 2015, etc.
|
|
fpsdredd
True Bro
Always working on the FPS metagame
Posts: 495
|
Post by fpsdredd on Jan 29, 2015 14:22:59 GMT -5
Might as well just make the same game every year too. Yes, actually, if Activision wants the game taken seriously as a sport. A huge problem right now is that too much of the game changes literally every year for the game to establish itself. I do think game nomenclature should change to CoD 2015, etc. There's the 3 studio thing they have going on now. It's hard to build on last year's game with that model.
|
|
asasa
True Bro
fuck
Posts: 4,255
|
Post by asasa on Jan 29, 2015 15:03:53 GMT -5
Sorry for getting your hopes up asasa. But lets say they did make 33 dmg out to infinity wouldn't that still cause uncertainty with long range kills? Like you said only a head or maybe body shot would change the btk while everything else would give hitmarkers? Let's see what happens....I will shut up now and go back under my rock until the next update. Well in the example buff you gave, extending the max damage range to 3000 (from the current, abysmal 650), would allow you a 3HK out to.. that distance, but also, if either of the first two shots (given the current weapon multipliers) hit the head or chest, it would be a 2HK. This isnt a recommendation I made; its how it currently is. Currently: 3HK to 650 (2HK if one hits head or chest) Your change: 3HK to 3000 (2HK if one hits head or chest) As for long range, consider that you were getting GUARANTEED 4HKs after 1700 before (From 650-1700, if any of the first 3 shots hit the head or chest, it was a 3HK) Now it's a 3HK, possibly 2HK out to double that distance. I'm not sure I could complain to much if it dropped to a 4HK at 3001 Well, I think most people think it needs a decent 2hk. Whether or not that is implemented is another story. As for right now, 3hk in cqc is gonna have you losing every time. You raise a good point over whether or not 2hk at close range with the semi auto is balanced with 3hk at close range with a fully auto. Perhaps 2hk at less range will balance it? Assuming great accuracy with the semi. "At less range"? What is that in reference to? The only range number I recall is the one given by pupilofcod, which I don't think you are referencing. I think "the strongest variant" should be killing out to at least the point the BAL Obsidian Steed is a 3HK. The only other option would be to make the EPM3 a scout marksman weapon. Giving it max run speed and GAYCR recoil(SMG handling maybe?) would be sufficient to give it a niche. EPM3 has a niche I think. High fire rate highly accurate 3hk at high ranges. Reason it was weak at launch was because of the hard to quantify bullet trail. How hard does that bullet trail really make it to use? Maybe people just need time to get used to it? That's what I'd be asking when balancing it. High fire rate is a pretty odd remark, considering no human player will be reaching beyond 800RPM. I really doubt 99.9% of people will exceed 600RPM for more than an instantaneous firerate. As for that remaining 0.1%, they're still not going over 700RPM. The EPM3 is 1200RPM.. that should NOT be taken in to account for balancing it. It already overheats incredibly fast, so modded controllers WILL NOT WORK without insta overheating. Just treat the 1200RPM as if it has no firerate cap. The firerate for the MK14 SHOULD be balanced with this in mind as well, hence why ~600 is historically chosen for semi autos. It's a number where almost no one will exceed, while not allowing rampant modded controllers. So again, this is not a real plus for the EPM3. They could drop it to 700RPM and it'd be the same as 1200RPM for everyone. BTW, I have a pretty fast trigger finger and do hit the cap on the MK14 on occasion. So, the EPM3 is nice in a way, because I don't have "dropped shots", which are almost certain death. Even with that considered, I'd take less recoil or faster movespeed over that every time (MK14) As for the bullet trail, balancing a gun around blinding people is laughable. What guns have done this in the past? Did anyone use them? The only guns I can recall with bad muzzle flash were both from Black Ops 1: The M14, and the Enfield. Neither gun was popular. The Enfield was neat, but whether people realized it or not - I think the muzzle flash is why it was practically never seen. And for both of these, they old had worse than typical muzzle flash. The EPM3 has beyond awful muzzle flash, stacked with that bullet trail which has blurring/distorting effects. There is nothing a player can do to combat being blind. It needs to be fixed. Just get the Foxtrot rid of it and it becomes a moot point. Might as well just make the same game every year too. They likely ache for more stat points to toy with and this could be viable once they figure it out. As stated above, "how blind is the user using this gun" cannot be a variable used in balance. It's illogical. If you have a counterargument, please share, because I view this the same way I see DVK; I.E. I cannot even fathom a single point a proponent would make. And, about "being the same game"... guns are guns. There are only so many niches out there. If you want to go down this path, they can start making guns that self destruct the user at total random. Some more likely than others. Would you like the BAL to be a 2HK, no recoil, 1000RPM, 100rnd mag, SMG stats, but the user self destructs after 30 seconds of life? Because that's pretty unique!
|
|
fpsdredd
True Bro
Always working on the FPS metagame
Posts: 495
|
Post by fpsdredd on Jan 29, 2015 15:57:52 GMT -5
Read this as stand alone without reference to any gun Asasa:
Would a 2hk at close range with a semi auto be balanced with 3hk at close range with a fully auto.
Perhaps 2hk at a lesser range will balance it? Great accuracy with the semi is assumed.
|
|
|
Post by thegentleman on Jan 29, 2015 16:24:07 GMT -5
I still think that with the degree of over-the-top verticality in the game, getting 2 semi-auto hits is more difficult in AW than it ever has been for any other CoD game, especially for guys like me that have their sensitivity set at 3 or 4. Sometimes if someone double-jumps over me or boost-jumps to the side at extreme close range, I just flat-out can't track them. Maybe that's me being outplayed, but I'd rather take the extra accuracy at medium/long distance.
I still think that with regards to the EPM3/M14, the EPM3 should have been the heavy hitter. It feels chunky, and while you can spam the trigger, it comes at the expense of you being able to see. I'd like to try it out now because it seems marginally better, but the laser trails are a big-ass arrow that highlights exactly where you are. It's an odd duck.
I loved the MW3 MK-14, but I have to admit I thought it was a little too powerful in my own hands. HUGE 2HK range and a higher firecap than I would have expected. The BOII FAL seemed more balanced in the sense that if you wanted one less BTK, you had to work for it. While it was theoretically a 2BTK gun, I certainly never got into many gunfights where that seemed to play out.
I'd be happy with the buffed MK14 in AW if the 2HK range is the same as the (now) buffed HBRa3. Never really been a fan of head/chest multipliers as a solution. Theoretically that should have made the .44 Magnum in Ghosts a decent niche gun, but barely ever did I manage to connect a shot in that magic 1HK area with opponents juking around on flat ground. In AW, with people even more mobile than ever before, I feel like trying to balance precision weapons around small hitboxes (that are also affected by connection environment) is just going to turn into "maybe it kills in 3 hits, maybe it kills in 4."
That said, If it were me playing a fantasy balancing game and wanted to shake things up, I'd give the MK-14 a really generous 2hk range (maybe what it was in MW3 or even beyond), but a long-ass reload, a 500rpm firecap and double the ADS time of what it is now. The M14 is a clunky, outdated design that simply doesn't handle like a modern AR. You can tart it up with a new stock, but it's not exactly some lithe, rapier-esque weapon. You also can't exactly pop-pop-pop .308 rounds. The German G3 rifles (7.62x51) had a full-auto mode, but basically nobody used it because there was zero expectation that you'd be able to hit anything with it in that capacity unless you were literally trying to mow down someone closing in on you from 20 feet away.
LOL at realism and all that, yeah, I get it in a game where cyborgs are lasering people, but I do think that real life holds no short amount of clues as to how to differentiate in-game guns.
Actually, come to think of it, those suggestions would make it a lot like the iron-sighted SVU in Ghosts: a gun that I LOVED and did tremendously well with despite number-crunchers telling me how outclassed it was by just about everything.
|
|
asasa
True Bro
fuck
Posts: 4,255
|
Post by asasa on Jan 29, 2015 16:46:54 GMT -5
Read this as stand alone without reference to any gun Asasa: Would a 2hk at close range with a semi auto be balanced with 3hk at close range with a fully auto. Perhaps 2hk at a lesser range will balance it? Great accuracy with the semi is assumed. No.. this isnt how communication works. You're missing some words and references here to make it complete. If I ask what the speed limit is on a road, and someone answers "slow", I don't then ask, "should I go slower?" without ever having started moving in the first place. Now, if I we're already driving at, say, 40MPH, then "slow" and "slower" make some sense. You're missing a critical reference here on top of being about a hypothetical gun which hasn't even been defined. On the other hand, the only interpretation here that makes any sense.. is basically worthless. The other interpretation would be: I have a semi auto and a full auto. The semi auto is a 2HK and the full auto a 3HK. If the semi auto is too strong, maybe less 2HK range would balance it? Uhh... yeah, thats... thats how balancing works. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say this isn't your point. So please, add in necessary words to make a coherent response.
|
|
|
Post by kylet357 on Jan 30, 2015 9:44:18 GMT -5
MK14 should be a two to three hit kill with the sway and recoil kept as it is now, or extremely reduced recoil and no sway and have its damage kept as it is now. EPM3 just needs a 3 hit kill at all ranges and no recoil (apparently, after the buff, this is exactly what it is now). The MK14 should probably have a low two hit kill range (I'm thinking 650-800), just to keep it in check. Minimum damage should be its current maximum damage. The marksman rifles would be usable if they did this.
|
|
|
Post by Megaqwerty on Jan 30, 2015 10:51:20 GMT -5
Haha, no sway.
The MK14 should have same or better handling than the other ARs.
The EPM needs a hell of a lot more than lower recoil and is a joke in Core. I'm halfway to diamond on it and if I acquire all my long shots prior to the prestige patch, I will never use this gun again.
|
|
|
Post by dunsparceflinch on Jan 30, 2015 13:04:54 GMT -5
I guess I'm the only one happy with the tac-19 buff. Gung-ho sliding is now viable with the tac-19 which was really the only big problem considering you could abuse sprint canceling to get around the bad sprint spread. Better 2 pellet kill range (assuming that is what they did) is really nice too.
|
|
prioc
True Bro
eep
Posts: 235
|
Post by prioc on Jan 30, 2015 15:39:03 GMT -5
yeah, it is a bit better now. I'd still like to see it get a hip-fire spread reduction, but it's OK now. I haven't tried with gung-ho yet though
|
|
|
Post by dunsparceflinch on Jan 30, 2015 16:30:13 GMT -5
Part of the thing with gung ho is that you just have abuse the fact that sprintout time is 0 and the moment you are no longer sprinting you get normal hipfire.
I've tried it and never looked back. I now regularly use gung-ho on my tac-19 sledgehammer.
|
|
cat
True Bro
domestic cats master race
Posts: 136
|
Post by cat on Feb 5, 2015 10:23:24 GMT -5
Got respond regarding IMR Feedback and Pillager range. Pretty generic but who knows.
|
|
fpsdredd
True Bro
Always working on the FPS metagame
Posts: 495
|
Post by fpsdredd on Feb 8, 2015 3:42:49 GMT -5
|
|
Will
True Bro
K/D below 1.0
Posts: 1,309
|
Post by Will on Feb 8, 2015 4:57:36 GMT -5
That's fucked up. Ameli, Pytaek, XMG, EM1 are all fine (EM1 needs a PC-only nerf).
|
|
fpsdredd
True Bro
Always working on the FPS metagame
Posts: 495
|
Post by fpsdredd on Feb 8, 2015 5:26:22 GMT -5
That's Foxtroted up. Ameli, Pytaek, XMG, EM1 are all fine (EM1 needs a PC-only nerf). They need a massive buff because they aren't popular
|
|
|
Post by thegentleman on Feb 8, 2015 8:25:01 GMT -5
Yeah, of all of the different classes, aside from giving the EPM3 a two-hit-kill range and maybe decreasing the initial recoil of the Pytaek, there's not a lot I would do to the heavy class. People who don't like the XMGs probably have no idea how to use them effectively in objective games. I mean, hey, if they want to buff the Ameli more, go ahead and do it. But I still think there are so many other absolute garbage-tier weapons that are more deserving.
|
|
|
Post by kylet357 on Feb 8, 2015 13:27:51 GMT -5
EM1 on console is honestly kinda crappy.
|
|