bradman
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token old guy
Posts: 1,178
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Post by bradman on Jan 30, 2016 11:15:14 GMT -5
Don't forget teabagging and dancing.
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wings
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Post by wings on Jan 30, 2016 12:50:37 GMT -5
50,000 Guardians used to patrol. Now it's just a ghost town.
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markopolo
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Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
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Post by markopolo on Jan 30, 2016 21:05:33 GMT -5
50,000 Guardians used to patrol. Now it's just a ghost town. I'm sure Iron Banner has nothing to do with that [/sarcasm]
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wings
True Bro
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Post by wings on Jan 31, 2016 3:20:09 GMT -5
I thought about grinding Iron Banner. But if the drops were like last time instead of IB Clash, then actually people could be better off farming public events for Motes of Light depending how many they can catch per hour. A limited timed PvE event is longer overdue.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Jan 31, 2016 11:55:28 GMT -5
I actually keep running into players in patrol actually, especially sub lvl 40 guardians. Dreadnought is always crowded, but earth, mars and moon had lots of action as well.
You might want to check your NAT settings.
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wings
True Bro
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Post by wings on Jan 31, 2016 12:53:16 GMT -5
My NAT settings might be playing up but I do check usually when I enter an empty Court. I also walk when moving between zones too so help matchmaking put me with someone. Usually just doing some Reciprocal Runes solo ends up getting me some others in the Court anyway.
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Post by livingonluck on Jan 31, 2016 19:12:03 GMT -5
I haven't touched the game in 3 weeks. PvP matchmaking just got too 'Advanced Warfare' feeling to me (meaning skill based matchmaking was strong.) I knew this was occurring before the bungie explanation came out. I went from regularly putting up 2+ K/D games (1.7 K/D), to barely able to break even each game (dropped down to 1.5 since TTK). Unfotunately, I am not someone who's into playing sweats so the minute I got turned off by PvP - I put the game down. Don't know or really care if it's been tweaked so it's not so sweaty now.
Another reason: None of my xbox friends play it anymore; and my friends list is long and many of them I met on LFG for Destiny. I was the last remaining (only 2 of them got TTK). I don't think it's dead, population is for sure "dying down" but wouldn't quite say it's dying. But I imagine a lot of people aren't going to give it a second look until Destiny 2 comes out.
And hopefully Destiny 2 addresses a lot of the issues I have with the game (4 things I want: Supers filling and Heavy Spawning to be something that occur about once a match instead of being how many of the kills occur. Better gun balancing. Private Games. No skill based matchmaking at all.)
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mannon
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wordy bastard PSN:mannonc Steam:mannonc XB:BADmannon
Posts: 15,371
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Post by mannon on Feb 1, 2016 11:32:44 GMT -5
Maybe a different playlist for SBMM.
Personally, I really liked SBMM back in Halo 2, but then it was also a stat you could track. So you knew if you were in a tough game, but if you did well your stat would go up. It made it pretty fun to play against pretty evenly skilled players instead of just trying to get better at pubstomping.
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bradman
True Bro
token old guy
Posts: 1,178
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Post by bradman on Feb 1, 2016 14:16:35 GMT -5
Ranked/Unranked playlists and true dedicated servers.
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wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
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Post by wings on Feb 1, 2016 14:29:42 GMT -5
It does feel tha SBMM has changed a bit. My last game I went 21-4 on Thieves' Den for Clash although the game was close winning 10130-9780. Perhaps the skill of players are more even so the top players have less of a burden to carry their teammates? Normally stuff like this wouldn't bother me but I do 'have' to use sub-optimal gear for Shaxx's bounties. I'm sure a lot of players will not want to get killed by Thorn too much in year 2.
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Post by iw5000 on Feb 2, 2016 10:54:00 GMT -5
The problem with SBMM is that the people who code the game, the developers, are out of shape nerds who (speaking in general) have never done sports. They don't understand competing. They understand code.
That's the problem in a nutshell.
Here's the deal. What you need to do (which none of these developers get). 'IF' you put in SBMM, you need to understand how skill based real sports work, how real competitors think. You want to advance? You want to get better? You go train, practice and compete against better people. Take MMA. You don't think any UFC champion is out there, seeking scrubs to practice against, so his practice 'stats' can look better. Hell no. These guys seek out top level training partners, and then seek out top level competition. Why? That's the only way to get fame. No one gets better or gets famous beating scrubs. And therein lies the key. If you have SBMM, you need to make sure you ALSO put in the 'glory & fame' aspect. You need to put into the game, an incredible ranking system that clearly displays how famous/good a player is. Unique armor? Emblems? Leaderboards? Combat cards? A belt system? Maybe all of that? It needs to be waaaay over the top. Thing(s) that will make the point of playing very clear. You need to beat good people, to get the fame & glory.
As it is now? It's one foot on the brake, another on the gas pedal. Take CoD for example. These dimwits still haven't figured this out yet. They put in all forms of SBMM into the game, most of it in a stealth manner, but then offer no rewards or fame for beating those better people played. The 'glory' in CoD is still mostly all about the KD ration and leveling up. Neither of which happens as efficiently if you play better people. End result? Does it even need asked? Everyone then seeks out scrubs to beat. No one actually wants to get better in CoD. People just want to 'appear' to be good via fake stats. That's how the game goes. This shouldn't be a big surprise, but apparently it is to the asshats who develop these games.
Destiny? It felt mostly the same when I played. Although, maybe some of the new things started to fix it?
I'm not saying one is better than the other. My point is, you can't do SBMM unless you put in the appropriate prizes with it. If you don't have those prizes, then SBMM shouldn't exist. It should just be pure random match-making, lumping everyone into the mix and letting things sort themselves out (perhaps adjusting/grouping by region and such though). Doing it that way, then the default skill indicators (KD ratio) can at least make a bit more sense to use.
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mannon
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wordy bastard PSN:mannonc Steam:mannonc XB:BADmannon
Posts: 15,371
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Post by mannon on Feb 2, 2016 11:49:56 GMT -5
I feel like a small amount of SBMM even in a more random pubstomp game isn't entirely uncalled for. But I think I would limit it to team balancing rather than actual matchmaking or just a small weighting factor to separate the clearly highly skilled and experienced players from the newest and least skilled. Probably the highly skilled players wouldn't even notice the difference between playing moderates instead of complete noobs, but the noobs would. I don't think you need to go whole hog and make the game noob friendly, but there's no need to be openly hostile to new players. Still all that needs to be pretty toned down. Maybe include a training mode for noobs with AI's and no XP and either no high skill players or else the skilled players take on more of a mentoring capacity somehow.
Otherwise if you're going with SBMM I totally agree with IW. You need to go whole hog on it, make it public, make a large part of the rewards for playing the game tied to it somehow, ect...
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mannon
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wordy bastard PSN:mannonc Steam:mannonc XB:BADmannon
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Post by mannon on Feb 2, 2016 12:04:09 GMT -5
Basically I feel like there's two kinds of SBMM.
A. Full blown game is all about your skill/fame/rank getting better and competing. This is where just barely beating an evenly matched opponent is worth way more than stomping 20 noobs. Hard to pull this off with random public team based games/gametypes... but doable? Certainly should be the norm for any kind of clan v clan thing, though.
B. Fairly tame SBMM just to cut down on newer/weaker players getting decimated literally all the time, because that becomes openly hostile to new players and is a good way to kill a game struggling to maintain a player base.
Granted, you don't always need even B. A lot of games get along fine without any SBMM at all. Personally I feel like that only works when a game is coming up, though. In other words when a game is rising in popularity, rather than waning. When the popularity dips its usually the more casual players or the ones who play that particular game less that drop off more. The true die-hard fans mostly keep playing, though a few get bored and move on. The disproportionality without any kind of SBMM can quickly create a feedback loop where lower skilled players don't have any fun so they stop playing and that makes it harder for lower skilled players, ect... That's not to say this is necessarily bad. It just depends on what you see being the lifecycle of your game. If you want it to have a big flash of popularity followed by relative obscurity, but potentially a small loyal base of highly skilled players, then SBMM is not necessary at all and perhaps detrimental. If you want as much popularity as possible for the longest time possible I'd say B. But if you want as many highly skilled players for as long as possible I think IW's A. It may not sell as many games, but it would be way more ESporty, and that has other advantages. Turn your game into a successful ESport and maybe you potentially have other sources of revenue...
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exxtrooper
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Who the fuck is Mousey
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Post by exxtrooper on Feb 28, 2016 9:03:21 GMT -5
I just cant bring myself to play it anymore with the meta and SBMM effectively destroying any enjoyment about the game.
One thing to keep in mind is that if your stats are almost exclusively in top 1%, you're playing a completely different game than anyone under 2 KDR. The people and tactics you're facing are effectively always on-edge and a lot of things you'd normally get away with is next to unusable.
It just comes down to this: you're not being rewarded by playing good, instead the polar opposite is happening. There is no reason for there to be SBMM as there's no goal, rank, reward or anything to work torwards, therefore its nothing but an annoyance.
At this point its beating a dead horse, bungie has some sort of "artistics integrity" which makes them balance weapons based on use rather than effectiveness, and want to balance every team game to be 50/50 win ration, which in their eyes is a succesful multiplayer experience.
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markopolo
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Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
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Post by markopolo on Feb 28, 2016 12:15:30 GMT -5
So... I'm finally being rewarded for having a negative KDR in PVP? I LOVE THIS GAME!!!! Long live SBMM!!!!
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wings
True Bro
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Post by wings on Feb 28, 2016 14:02:16 GMT -5
I just cant bring myself to play it anymore with the meta and SBMM effectively destroying any enjoyment about the game. One thing to keep in mind is that if your stats are almost exclusively in top 1%, you're playing a completely different game than anyone under 2 KDR. The people and tactics you're facing are effectively always on-edge and a lot of things you'd normally get away with is next to unusable. It just comes down to this: you're not being rewarded by playing good, instead the polar opposite is happening. There is no reason for there to be SBMM as there's no goal, rank, reward or anything to work torwards, therefore its nothing but an annoyance. At this point its beating a dead horse, bungie has some sort of "artistics integrity" which makes them balance weapons based on use rather than effectiveness, and want to balance every team game to be 50/50 win ration, which in their eyes is a succesful multiplayer experience. I wouldn't mind the SBMM so much but: 1. There's already unbalanced ability cooldown benefits on armour by light level 2. Join in progress is permitted across all game modes so a new player will have fewer/no special, no Super and no heavy and the enemy might have all three. Disable join in progress and if a specific number of players leave then the game should forfeit. 3. Bounties and quests that ask for 7 and 10 Crucible wins will probably direct players to use S-tier gear more than they would otherwise. 4. As above, why bother with test weapons from the Gunsmith? So much for a loot based shooter. 5. Any bounties requiring usage of gear that is not S-tier ends up being less realistic to complete in a reasonable manner, e.g. 10 auto rifle kills for Shaxx. 6. So then more people result in using S-tier gear, which means Bungie thinks they could do with a bigger nerf than they might warrant. Watch the MIDA get nerfed mostly as a result of other weapons being sub-optimal. 7. Most gear is acquired by RNG. There is nothing balanced about players not having access to gear because they are new or whatever. Compare this to, say, League Play in Black Ops 2. 8. Increased queue times. Even as an average player I can spend 5 minutes waiting for a match to start for Salvage because Iron Banner is in rotation. 9. Increased latency between players. I often have overseas players in my games but this was rare with MW2 even years after it was released. I've seen ridiculous matchmaking reports from players using the Netduma router's software. 10. Subclasses need upgrading which will affect players' productivity in PvP 11. Light level enabled playlists experiencing SBMM is an oxymoron. At least make the class items guaranteed for sale to make some logic here. 12. So 'casual' game modes like Iron Banner and vanilla Crucible like normal Control are more "competitive" than many first few games I've played in Trials.
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