probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Dec 10, 2012 20:07:17 GMT -5
Nice. Well done, good sir.
This gets my nod for a sticky in the Conclusions thread.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Dec 7, 2012 19:27:05 GMT -5
IDK if anyone has ever done the math on that, but you're probably right that no guns will ever hit that point. Well, here you go: Let x = 0.5at^2 + vt, where x is the angular displacement of the gun, t is the firetime, a is the (signed) centerspeed and v the velocity (kick) of the weapon. It's easy to show that the gun reaches its peak at: t_peak = -v/a. Now, t_peak = 60/r_peak, where r is the is the firerate (in rpm). Solving for r: r_peak = -60a/v. Note that the acceleration does not change at all here, since the gun never moves back towards center. As an example, take a gun that has a guaranteed kick upwards of 40 deg/s and a centerspeed of -1300 deg/s^2. The rate of fire that ensures that this gun receives its next kick at the top of its trajectory is: r_peak = -60*(-1300)/40 = 1800 rpm.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Nov 30, 2012 23:07:04 GMT -5
That's not how you calculate it, Mousey. Zoom = tan(FOV/2) / tan(ADSFOV/2) I'm probaddie, and I approve this message.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Nov 24, 2012 2:58:43 GMT -5
probaddieThat isn't actually XboxAhoy's account. (Edit: or is it??? ) He replied to Mousey on twitter that he doesn't have access to the raw files so he is in the dark like us. Right. He isn't working for Activision for BO2 but he did for MW3.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Nov 24, 2012 1:21:18 GMT -5
If you're not under NDA or something, would you mind sharing the decrypted weapon files for MW3 with us? That data is crucial to a project I have pertaining to recoil, and with MW3 being the only game in the series with appreciable GunKick since CoD4 it be nice to have the data to test my methods with.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Nov 21, 2012 12:53:24 GMT -5
We know there isn't a set pattern to hipfire or shotgun spread but it does have to follow some random distribution. I had been doing some some work on estimating the probability of getting a kill with a shotgun and made some assumptions that in hindsight I'm really not sure about. I had assumed that the pellets would have an equal probability of going anywhere in the area of the spread but after working with the numbers, playing a lot and shooting a lot of walls I suspect that isn't the case. So instead I'm guessing that the game uses a uniform distribution for both distance from the center and angle for each pellet, polar coordinates essentially. This would mean that on average half the pellets from a shotgun would end up in the middle quarter of the area of the spread. Trouble is, I'm not sure how to do any better than saying, I think this is the way it works. Any game testing seems likely to be very long and tedious in order to get enough data to tease out how this works. I know it's a long shot, but maybe you could try asking one of the developers at Treyarch? They may not answer such a technical question, though. We would need to do a lot of testing to see if your suspicions are correct. However, it turns out that correcting the problem so that pellets actually are given a truly "uniform" distribution inside a unit circle is not that difficult: www.anderswallin.net/2009/05/uniform-random-points-in-a-circle-using-polar-coordinates/So whether they "corrected" the distribution function for the radius in this way we can't be sure -- at least not without firing a lot of bullets at a wall.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Nov 18, 2012 15:33:32 GMT -5
That may be true but his statement is still completely wrong hip recoil can be seperate from ads recoil though. I was talking about EVO or BO2 SMG, show me a video any BO2 smg has this hipfire recoil, if you shoot at a wall you only see spread and that's it. With all respect, the statement, "Hipfire only has spread no recoil" in response to the OP's question, "Have all CoD games been like this?" looks like a blanket statement about the mechanics of Call of Duty -- I think most would read it that way. If you meant only the BO2 Skorpion behaves the way it does then saying something to that effect would be helpful.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Nov 18, 2012 15:10:33 GMT -5
Hipfire only has spread no recoil No. Counterexample: Striker in MW3. Case closed. asasa is right on the mark. It's generally the rule that ADS and hipfire recoil values are identical. Note that it will appear to be dampened due to the lack of magnification compared with ADS.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Nov 16, 2012 12:45:31 GMT -5
I am unconTROLLable. Try it; I dare you motherfucker.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Nov 15, 2012 15:57:19 GMT -5
You are the noob here. The weapons on PC have the same stats as on consoles. Dude, I read the file on BO1 as late as this May, the nerf wasn't there, FAMAS was the same on console and PC when it was released, but PC's stayed the same, while the console version got the nerf. Learn you facts before calling people noob. The changes made to BO in the PC version are contained in the patch_mp.ff fast file.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Nov 14, 2012 13:17:19 GMT -5
Wouldn't the easiest method to get the "true" accuracy of a gun be to compare recoil plots to avatar-sized targets at different ranges and calculate the percentage of shots that strike said target (over a large volume of fire of course)? You could come up with a number for 3-round burst, 5-round burst, 10-round spray and 30 round mag dumps and (after getting a handful of ranges and their accuracy values) compute a line of best fit that graphs range as the independent and accuracy as the dependent for each of the different burst values. I only mention this because I believe that Den had one point managed to determine that one point of recoil was equivalent to such-and-such distance on the screen; a simple screen grab accompanied by some image manipulation should allow you to plot recoil graphs to in-game targets easily. I understand what you're getting at. I wouldn't want to be the guy counting thousands of dots on a screenie, though. And you would need thousands of shots to get reliable results that way. A more simulation-based method might be possible -- if we could get reliable measurements of an in-game player model. It would provide a more "concrete" way of expressing the weapons' accuracy, no doubt. There might be something I can do to remedy that with these results in the meantime. But there's something to be said for the exactitude of this method, since it's not subject to the possibility of exceptional data. It's not that your idea is bad, but I will contend that it definitely isn't easier and much more difficult to know how reliable the results might be..
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Nov 14, 2012 12:25:05 GMT -5
Added links to W@W results, as requested by Marvel4.
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Post by probaddie on Nov 11, 2012 2:08:26 GMT -5
Nope. Also this 234P-3MKF-6A4G-CAEJ-DPGC Fuck YES! This is better than winning the lottery! (Sort of....)
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Nov 11, 2012 0:42:08 GMT -5
Thanks anyways Mousie, and yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Not to be an annoyance, but who's the guy who did the gunkick values and viewkick values for MW3? His avatar has this Labrador with scientist glasses on. Something tells me he might know. Sure, I'll help you. But I have a list of demands: 1. More swooning women. 2. Convert everything into seconds in your spreadsheet. Frames? I ain't no photographer! 3. You hop onto the IRC sometime and talk me through the mechanics of Halo 4 (I don't play it), what you want, etc. 4. A bottle o' Jack. In all seriousness, I'm more than willing to help.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Nov 9, 2012 17:52:49 GMT -5
Rule 63 out of nowhere. What? I just.... Okay, this is going too far.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Nov 8, 2012 10:25:52 GMT -5
Jesus Den, you must think his shit is made of gold.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Nov 7, 2012 17:01:29 GMT -5
Pretty sure we established probaddie's mom Come on, that one doesn't even make sense. (inb4 "your mom doesn't make sense").
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Nov 6, 2012 11:36:00 GMT -5
I tried explaining a few things to her as well, Brick, but things aren't going very well:
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Nov 6, 2012 11:25:41 GMT -5
Oh.... you guys.... Trust me, if I was den's....oh god....no...lets not even think about that at all. I never realized mousey was a female. To put that statement in context, Mousey was whining abut how bad I was kicking her ass in a CoD4 game; butthut is always a turn on .
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Nov 5, 2012 23:22:07 GMT -5
props to pro baddie for stomping even though Marvel had 150 ping edge. B****es don't know 'bout my AK, ya dig?
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Oct 30, 2012 12:17:52 GMT -5
[Begin shameless plug] Hey look, a red herring: I made that. I'll be doing recoil plots for BO2 that take GunKick and 1:16 CenterSpeed accel into account. Whoopie! (Now everyone quit yer beetchin'.) [End shamless plug] I like how you pretty much copied psijaka's style It's what everyone's become accustomed to. Why not continue the tradition?
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Oct 30, 2012 12:14:20 GMT -5
[Begin shameless plug] Hey look, a red herring: I made that. I'll be doing recoil plots for BO2 that take GunKick and 1:16 CenterSpeed accel into account. Whoopie! (Now everyone quit yer beetchin'.) [End shamless plug]
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Oct 28, 2012 0:50:31 GMT -5
I added values for Kick Proficiency and the probability of fully recentering from a centered shot before the follow-up shot is made. Psijaka had probabilities for subsequent shots (w/ prepatch values), but I don't know if he used a formula to calculate them or simply used simulation results. I'll probably leave that to probaddie. I believe he calculated them directly -- it's not that hard to do if you know your stuff. There is yet another caveat here though: both yours and his values for re-centering probabilities are for the first two shots both re-centering consecutively, which is not the same as the probability that the gun will be re-centered by the second shot (the gun my be off-center after the first but manage to return to center after the second.)
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Oct 24, 2012 19:10:53 GMT -5
Asuming that viewkick movement follows the equation of motion for linear acceleration (Δr = V 0t + at 2/2 , V 2 = V 02 + 2aΔr) , I took Marvel's weapon spreadsheet and calculated the max viewkick recovery for each weapon with the new formula, as well as the maximum rate of fire for ensuring that all shots are centered (Gunkick, Kick proficiency, Grip attachment, and stance modifiers are ignored) docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aot8P8_rAarodE5kY0FMZmtOWlFoOG5MMjZTemF0WGc#gid=0I made it so that anyone with the link can edit it, so if you wanna change something you don't need to ask or wait for me to do something. I hate to be the devil's advocate here, but judging from your work you didn't account for the change in acceleration once the gun starts re-centering. The equations you've cited assume a constant acceleration, but we know the acceleration applied to the gun is one-sixteenth that of the CenterSpeed once your view starts returning to center. I had to find a workaround to this just to complete my recoil statistics -- and the recoil plot generator I am currently working on. Once the gun starts returning, it's position as a function of time is: x(t) =(a*t^2)/32 + v*t /16+ 15* v^2/(32*a) I think that's all you need to know to correct your work, but if you want some help I am more than willing . Edit: I should mention that the "a" in that equation is the original acceleration of the gun (i.e. CenterSpeed with the appropriate sign). Also, Mousey (and I) think you'd be a good bro to have in the IRC, so here ya go: www.mibbit.com. You don't need an account; just enter your handle and #Den_Kirson as the channel and you're flying.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Oct 20, 2012 21:24:57 GMT -5
What are some good flanking tips? I think it would be pretty useful to compile them into them one thread. So Far: 1. Try to be stealthy: Silencer, Assassin, etc. 2. Try to know/ learn the spawns, and when the spawns flip. This typically comes with experience. 3. Use an SMG or AR. An smg is usually preferable, but if you will play a little more conservative while flanking an assault rifle is a good choice. 4. Know when to sprint and when to walk, EC + MP9 is really useful. Thats 2 (EC)* 1.75 (MP9) = 2.75x your regular sprint. You pretty much sprint forever. SA pro is helpful too because you will be able to shoot sooner if you are caught while sprinting. Here are some questions I have about flanking: 1. TAC insert vs EC. A tac insert will allow you to stay in their spawn longer, but EC will get you there faster if the spawns flip. Which is better and is either worth it? 2. How do you prevent the spawns from flipping and prevent the enemy from spawning behind you? 3. What equipment will help you flank easier? I will add more questions and more tips as they come up (and will credit the contributor). THANKS! Uhh... 2 * 1.75 = 3.5. Just FYI .
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Oct 9, 2012 8:22:28 GMT -5
I understand this doesn't really qualify as "testing," but since psijaka doesn't seem to be very interested in CoD anymore, I can promise to produce recoil plots the moment we have the ViewKick and GunKick numbers.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Sept 7, 2012 12:46:15 GMT -5
Grips only increase centerspeed. To add to marvel, not applying an attachment to a weapon will not apply that attachment's effect to the weapon. That is obvious enough, but some attachments have non-intuitive effects, as linked. According to the game guide, Grip increase centerspeed by 25% and reduce viewkick by 10%, potentially being the best variation of the Grip attachment so far. And Kick reduces both ViewKick's and GunKick's Yaw and Pitch values by 10%. Hence, weapons with considerable GunKick see a much higher improvement when coupled with the Kick proficiency than most others. (Except the ACR. That thing is just silly with Kick.)
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Sept 1, 2012 13:48:53 GMT -5
I'm seriously trying to figure out what that censored word is I'll give you a hint. Its 5 letters, starts with a "P", is generally considered to be an offensive thing to call someone, and has been known to smell like fish on occasion. I'm not sure you picked up on the sarcasm there, brick .
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Aug 31, 2012 16:14:50 GMT -5
Thanks to Marvel tracking down the MW2 files, I now have recoil statistic results for that game: MW2 (unbiased): docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnFeORnwotj_dHMzYi1KdVpNeWtTa3c2X19DSjIzUGc#gid=0MW2 (biased): docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnFeORnwotj_dElMNDltNVFHMWNBNm9jNV9KS0I3dnc#gid=0Links will be provided in the OP as well. Seeing as we probably will never get those GunKick numbers for MW3 -- not to mention interest in the game appears to be waning rapidly on these fora -- the only thing I think makes sense now is to refine the method and get it ready for Black Ops 2. To that, end, I will be trying to improve the way semi-automatics are graded. As it is, for the purposes of this method all semi-automatics are assumed to fire at 625 RPM or their actual firecap, whichever is lower. What I would like to do as have three separate measurements included for each semi-automatic weapon, all at different fire rates. For example, if a gun has a ridiculous firecap of 1200 RPM, the method will simply try to grade it at three realistic rates. One will represent firing the gun "slowly" (200 RPM), the next at a "moderate" rate (400 RPM), and at a "fast" rate (600 RPM). If the real firerate than any of these benchmarks, then only those which are less than the actual firerate would be included, and the largest firerate to be included will be the firecap itself. So, for example ,if a gun has a firerate of 450 RPM, then the gun will be rated at 225 RPM and 450 RPM. Something like that. In any case, enjoy the MW2 results.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Aug 29, 2012 21:50:55 GMT -5
So, the MW3 updates are done. I've just patched up the current MW3 spreadsheets this time around, so the links in the OP should still work.
Two major changes:
1. The LMGs and sniper rifles now have three measurements for each gun, one for each stance. Marvel managed to find the stance multipliers to recoil and they are now accounted for in the charts.
2. Marvel also discovered that Kick only reduces ViewKick values by 10%, not 20%. This, too, is now accounted for in the charts.
Again, GunKick is not accounted for in any of the charts. This will mean that the 10% reduction in GunKick granted by Kick is not accounted for either in the results. Thus, it will appear that the Grip is superior to Kick in all cases, when we know it is not for certain weapons. Keep that in mind.
Whelp, there's a huge bug in the code. Apparently, the ACR get's better when you use only %10 ViewKick reduction, not worse. Ignore everything I just said.
Okay, everything's fixed. Enjoy.
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