Lexapro
True Bro
PSN: Lexa_pro
Posts: 1,066
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Post by Lexapro on Oct 12, 2011 12:36:07 GMT -5
I would say that the best way to balance the F2000 would be to give it some inaccuracy while sighted/lower muzzle velocity/faster damage dropoff/more bullet drop and longer reloads than traditionally laid out weapons. That would make sense too as its 15.75 inch barrel is a little shorter than normal ARs and the bullpup layout makes reloading a bit more challenging. I think those changes should be sufficient to balance out the increase in ROF and almost nonexistent recoil.
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Post by didjeridu on Oct 12, 2011 15:58:30 GMT -5
I would say that the best way to balance the F2000 would be to give it some inaccuracy while sighted/lower muzzle velocity/faster damage dropoff/more bullet drop and longer reloads than traditionally laid out weapons. That would make sense too as its 15.75 inch barrel is a little shorter than normal ARs and the bullpup layout makes reloading a bit more challenging. I think those changes should be sufficient to balance out the increase in ROF and almost nonexistent recoil. Normally I'd say that the inability to attach underbarrel weapons balances the F2000, but using them is a pretty stupid idea when you're stripping out half of your class's usefulness, so the point is moot. I still won't believe that AR damage is universal. I can't believe that DICE would make such a moronic design decision; it'd be like Black Ops all over again. I really need to see some actual numbers. Even if it's really the case, hopefully they'll wise up and change it for retail. Although assuming the worst, I'd say the best case scenario for balancing the F2000 is lower damage. It's fine if there's a low recoil AR, but obviously it shouldn't outclass everything. At most, it should be 20 damage, but 18 could work too. Maybe they could also take it a step further and make it so the laser sight is incompatible, but I doubt that would ever happen.
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Post by saddaminsane on Oct 12, 2011 18:26:00 GMT -5
why not give it a 24 (25) round mag Although it would be tempting to give it lower damage, i think 20 damage (opposed to standard 25, i believe?) is enough of a nerf in damage
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Post by onikage on Oct 25, 2011 0:56:39 GMT -5
Semi-auto snipers are nerfed to oblivion. 4 body shots at long range.
They needed to be toned down, but this seems like overkill.
Edit: Seems like that's at absolute max range OR there was a hitreg issue OR one of the shots missed and hit someone behind him I didn't see....got the X to acknowledge a hit on all 4, but that doesn't mean it registered server-side. Anyway, haven't been able to duplicate in combat.
Does anybody know how the scope glint mechanic works? Is it just on the 7x/8x scopes, or does it happen on ACOG as well?
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Post by james161324 on Oct 25, 2011 8:00:22 GMT -5
The recon kit is useless in this game.
Glint only works on rifle scopes, not acogs or 3.4
On to weapons the pp2k and m416 are still beast in the games. I should have the aek later today hoepfully
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Post by kirbyderby on Oct 25, 2011 11:08:39 GMT -5
I'm gonna probably play tomorrow anyway, but does the 870 still rape the metro like it did in the beta? I'm looking forward to giving it another go.
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Post by didjeridu on Oct 25, 2011 11:34:39 GMT -5
The recon kit is useless in this game. Well, to be fair, at least one person in a squad should plant a mobile spawn before switching to their real class (unless they fixed that). Otherwise yeah, the Recon isn't nearly as useful as the other classes. I'd be okay with 4 body shots to kill at maximum range, if that's the case. I much prefer bolt-action for long range anyway, and either go 4x or lower on semi-autos in close range. Although if it's really true, I'd hate to see the SKS nerfed as a result. It was already a 4 shot kill (I think), and anything more than that would make it worthless compared to a SMG/PDW. I still think the MK11/SVD were fine as is though. A lot of the bashers were just ignorant to the damage bug, and simply assumed that the semi-autos were OP.
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Post by rubionubio on Oct 25, 2011 13:31:30 GMT -5
I'd be okay with 4 body shots to kill at maximum range, if that's the case ..... A lot of the bashers were just ignorant to the damage bug, and simply assumed that the semi-autos were OP. This. There is positively no way of knowing what exact effect the damage bug had on these guns in the beta, so saying that they are "nerfed to oblivion" is disingenuous. It's most likely that the bug was corrected and they had a similar damage profile in the beta. Four body shots at extreme range is very fair considering the relative ease of unlock (read: instant) and useful-ness in short to medium ranges as well. I for one am happy that I'm no longer getting one shotted from halfway across the map by flechette rounds and semi-auto snipers because I always got shot sprinting from cover to cover.
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Post by skitrel on Oct 25, 2011 15:35:26 GMT -5
Recon isn't supposed to be a murder kill kill class, it's recon, short for reconnaissance. You plant beacons and spot for your squad while using stealth and hiding yourself away. At least that's how it's supposed to be played.
If you want to kill stuff choose assault, their job? Kill stuff or revive stuff.
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Post by didjeridu on Oct 25, 2011 17:30:07 GMT -5
Recon isn't supposed to be a murder kill kill class, it's recon, short for reconnaissance. You plant beacons and spot for your squad while using stealth and hiding yourself away. At least that's how it's supposed to be played. If you want to kill stuff choose assault, their job? Kill stuff or revive stuff. No one said it was. And every class can hide, spot, and kill at range, so that's a poor explanation of what a Recon is about. Their only use is their gadgets, which aside from the mobile spawn, aren't great. Of course, none of that matters since most Recons are just wookies. It's rare that you find a Recon who can pull away from sniping long enough to even use one of their gadgets. If only they didn't nerf motion sensors into the ground (literally) and remove C4. There's nothing they do that makes it worth sacrificing med-kits/defibs, rockets/mines/repair, or ammo/c4/clays.
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Post by onikage on Oct 25, 2011 17:37:59 GMT -5
Rubio, the semi-auto snipers were 2 body shots up close and 3 at distance in beta. There is a way to know what effect the damage bug had on them: shoot at stationary targets. WITH the bug they could kill in one body shot.
So yes, it's definitely a nerf. They now perform much like the svu/t88 from BC2.
As for the usefulness of the recon class, I have to disagree. The mobile spawn is great on offense, the motion sensor is great on defense. And when I say great, I mean game-winningly great. I think the motion sensor is underrated and underutilized. Haven't had a chance to play with the other gadgets.
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Post by sljusto on Oct 25, 2011 20:57:16 GMT -5
Personally I find no redeeming fa ctor about the sks. It has a lower ttk across all ranges compared to the 2 initial snipers. The 20 round mag is supposed to make up for that? Rofl. Also, Den, when can we expect the juicy bf3 chart?
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Post by james161324 on Oct 25, 2011 22:36:35 GMT -5
The recon kit is useless in this game. Well, to be fair, at least one person in a squad should plant a mobile spawn before switching to their real class (unless they fixed that). Otherwise yeah, the Recon isn't nearly as useful as the other classes. I'd be okay with 4 body shots to kill at maximum range, if that's the case. I much prefer bolt-action for long range anyway, and either go 4x or lower on semi-autos in close range. Although if it's really true, I'd hate to see the SKS nerfed as a result. It was already a 4 shot kill (I think), and anything more than that would make it worthless compared to a SMG/PDW. I still think the MK11/SVD were fine as is though. A lot of the bashers were just ignorant to the damage bug, and simply assumed that the semi-autos were OP. i agree with that the mobile spawn points are great but besides that there isn't much point to the kit. The snipers are for the most part crap, unless your one of the .0001 percent of people who are just amazing with them.
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Post by prinsmp on Oct 26, 2011 3:07:04 GMT -5
Still have to wait a couple of days before I can play : ( But I am glad to hear Snipers are nerfed. People running around with snipers, acting like they where assaults, was just silly. They should make no scoped snipers, weaker compared to scoped. So with scope 2 - 3 , acog or hard 3-3- or 3-4 (same as assault), but with longer distance damage dropoff
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Post by skittls on Oct 26, 2011 9:36:57 GMT -5
Den, if there is anything I can do to help ease your workload with setting up one of your awesome charts for BF3, let me know. I don't know the details about getting the stats from the game, but I could pick up some of the grunt work. I have plenty of free time.
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Post by novanleon on Oct 26, 2011 11:12:49 GMT -5
My observations from several hours of playing the Recon class last night:
The Radio Beacon (mobile spawn point) is much larger than in the beta, actually consisting of a big box with a tripod-satellite antenna of sorts. Very easy to spot if placed out in the open.
If the player respawns on his own radio beacon point it self-destructs, requiring him to re-set it (this could be good or bad depending on player preference but I prefer it this way over having to pick it up to move it).
The T-UGS (motion sensor) seems useful but it's difficult to determine it's effective range since it doesn't have the strobing sensor waves coming off it like it did in BC2.
I believe the T-UGS remains even if the player dies, but you only get one as far as I'm aware.
This is my general impression of the weapons. Take this with a grain of salt: * Both rifles seem to kill with 3 shots from any range, or 1 headshot from any range (true?) * The SVD seemed to kill with 2 shots at close range while the Mk11Mod0 felt like it always took three shots no matter what. * The SVD defnitely felt like it had more recoil and the scope reticule can be harder to get used to. * The M1911 feels very good, with excellent stopping power, usually taking approx. 4 hits to kill (true?). The clip size is 9 rounds. * The M9 and MP443 felt much weaker, but the much larger clip size (20+) means you can spam like crazy.
Overall, I like the semi-auto snipers a lot, and I appreciate the fact that they're not so overpowered now. I think effective use of the sniper rifles will center around getting headshots, and the bipod will probably be a must-have for any long range sniping, which I love.
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Post by onikage on Oct 27, 2011 3:19:53 GMT -5
^ I agree with your assessment of the weapons, though I'm not certain whether the SVD's apparently higher recoil is real, or if it just looks that way. I suspect the latter. Haven't noticed the SVD killing in 2 shots consistently either. Idk.
They apparently decided that they didn't want people using the sniper rifles "unconventionally", in the way that people would in BC2 for example. The bolt actions have an absurdly short 1hk range, and the semi-auto's don't do well at all in close range compared to other weapons unless you're a headshot machine. And our friend the VSS is conspicuously absent...
Guess I'll just have to mope until I unlock the AS Val.
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Post by volgon on Oct 27, 2011 4:00:07 GMT -5
Anyone else feel like the Assault ARs are killing too quickly? Non-empirical, obvious, but in particular the M416 (M16A3 too, I think) seem to do pretty high damage and have good RPMs to boot. There's been multiple times where I get the jump on an Assault player as an Engineer and they stomp me. Seems like the only Engineer gun that can compete with the raw damage of the ARs is the SCAR, though the A-91 does well also.
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yhzh
True Bro
Posts: 117
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Post by yhzh on Oct 27, 2011 4:15:50 GMT -5
yup, I basically go to hard core when I want to unlock sniper attachments.
Even in hardcore, the bolt actions still need 2 shots at range, but the range is decently far.
I feel like the hardcore sniper rifles are how they should be in core mode.
The recon kit overall just sucks, the gear and the guns are largely second tier.
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Post by SheWolf on Oct 27, 2011 6:18:25 GMT -5
i think recon is fine in SC the way it is. everyone is just used to the overpowerednes of bc2 and the beta. and now, god help us, recons are actually balanced and not machines for easy effordless kills anymore. i refuse to go to hc in order to get my recon unlocks. feels just cheap^^
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Post by novanleon on Oct 27, 2011 8:45:05 GMT -5
After further experimentation in-game, I'd like to revise my previous statements on the recon class and sniper rifles: - I believe the SVD and Mk11Mod0 are both three shots to the body or two headshots (or a headshot and body shot) to kill from any range.
- The SV-98 is two shots to the body or one headshot from any range except very close range, where a single shot to the body will kill as well.
- Also, I think both the SVD and Mk11Mod0 have similar levels of recoil. The perceived higher recoil for the SVD is just visual I think.
- The radio beacon will stay in place until the next time you spawn, regardless of where you spawn. Once you die and re-spawn it will self-destruct, at which time you can re-set it.
- I haven't figured out how to use the SOGFLAM yet.
Overall my impressions of the Recon class and sniper rifles is very positive. The sniper rifles are obviously balanced to be more effective at longer ranges but are workable at closer ranges in a pinch, especially if you outfit them with standard rifles sights and other attachments. The sniper rifles truly begin to excel at long range when you equip them with a bipod. With the bipod deployed these guns become lethal at long range. Without the bipid, the reticule sway makes long range sniping with the semi-autos much more difficult. The SV-98 only needs a headshot so it fares considerably better but the sway still makes it difficult to pull off without breathing.
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Post by sljusto on Oct 27, 2011 9:00:27 GMT -5
Am I the only one finding the bipod redundant? I always use shift to stabilize my aim, and it gives enough time to make the shot. I make 300-400m shots no problem, for sub 200 I just drag shoot.
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yhzh
True Bro
Posts: 117
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Post by yhzh on Oct 27, 2011 10:25:16 GMT -5
I haven't used the bipod with the semiauto snipers, but with the bolt action sniper rifles it hurts more than it helps.
I put it there until I get the straight bolt, which is far superior, and often times I would miss a kill or get killed because I deployed instead of going straight to ADS.
If the bipod gets rid of spread then it could be worth using with the semiautomatic rifles for long shots, but you get the grip first, and grip is always useful unlike the bipod.
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Post by SheWolf on Oct 27, 2011 10:38:06 GMT -5
they sould make it deploy via the attachement key (t) instead of the ads button. on cosoles it's somehow done with pushing the button a little, not all the way. pretty clever.
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Post by Serval on Oct 27, 2011 12:28:33 GMT -5
SVD and MK II Mod 0 are ohk headshots at very close range.
To use the SOFLAM you have to deploy it and then aim with it, once you've pointed at something long enough it gets locked and the rest is up to teammates. You get decent assist points (45 I think) if something you've painted gets disabled/killed (not sure which) and you get 10 points for painting something.
A very important feature of the SOFLAM is that after planting it you can get out of it and then go somewhere else, pull out your SOFLAM again (it will pull out a little PDA thing) and then press fire to take remote control of the SOFLAM.
I think it will automatically designate targets even if you're not using it when it's facing them, but I haven't had that happen.
The SOFLAM also seems to be able to blind people with its targeting laser just like the weapon attachment does.
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sleep
True Bro
Posts: 10,189
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Post by sleep on Oct 27, 2011 14:51:03 GMT -5
i was using the MG in an abrams when a SOFLAM was pointed us it from across the river on seine crossing. it wasn't really blinding in that situation, just kind of like a sniper scope glint except larger and red. it's possible that it was tinting my whole screen red a bit, but it's hard to tell as the color palette is different when you're using a tank mg. either way it had no effect on my ability to see or aim.
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Post by kirbyderby on Oct 27, 2011 15:15:26 GMT -5
I don't think flashlights, lasers would have much of an effect on your vision in a vehicle anyways.
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Post by onikage on Oct 27, 2011 17:05:46 GMT -5
I just keep discovering new things....never knew that you could equip the knife and run around with it in BF3. Not sure if it shortens the execution time of knifing someone, but it seems to.
My favorite recon loadout atm is SKS/holo/foregrip/suppressor. You don't have huge stopping power, but you can cover a door/hallway like a boss, and do well in large firefights where you have time for target acquisition. More of a DM role than a sniper.
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Post by danielzy on Oct 27, 2011 20:43:24 GMT -5
My findings : All assault rifles deal a damage of 25 [4 hits kill] at VERY close range... the damage drop in like 2-3 meters so it will become 5 hits kill.
The minimum damage of all assault rifles seems to be 17 and sometimes [not sure] 16.
The SCAR-H deal a damage of 34 at very close range but got only 20 bullets and low fire rate... All semi-auto snipers do a damage of 34 Minium to 51 Max [at very close range] make them OHK to the head from close distance.
M4A1\M4 seems to do a damage of 25 to 15 minium [again, sometimes 14]
M1911 do a damage of 34 at close range and 13 from distance -.-"
please post accurate details only/
Den, any idea where the stats are and how to read them ?
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Lexapro
True Bro
PSN: Lexa_pro
Posts: 1,066
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Post by Lexapro on Oct 28, 2011 9:26:17 GMT -5
What is the difference between the m16a3/a4 and the m4/a1?
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