|
|
Post by llednik on Jul 14, 2012 0:00:52 GMT -5
Didn't shadowrun support pc/xbox cross compatibility?
|
|
|
|
Post by Pegasus Actual on Jul 15, 2012 18:48:45 GMT -5
Calling kb/m more cumbersome for button usage is insane. Equipment usage? Really? I have that bound to one of the two thumb buttons on my mouse. How is that more cumbersome than taking my thumb off the left thumbstick, completely giving up my ability to move until I manage to mash the d-pad and get back?
With a standard kb/m setup your hands/fingers are ALWAYS in position to move forward, move backward, aim, ADS, fire, and jump.
On console, want to go crouch, jump or change weapons? Well, I guess you won't be needing to turn or aim for a little while little buddy! Actually, on console that issue is so annoying that for changing weapons I actually curl my index finger back over to hit the button. Now that's cumbersome.
And yes, as was mentioned, there are devices with thumbsticks for movement that you can use with the Xim. I have a G13, which has a thumbstick, but it's at an awkward angle so in the end I decided not to use it. CoD is fast paced enough to where it's pretty rare you don't want to be moving at full speed anyway. The only real purpose for it is precision headglitching. I find that crouch-walking is good enough for most slow-walking applications, you easily max out your no-footsteps speed, and it's pretty slow, if you need to hit an exact spot it's pretty easy. Does that advantage compete with the advantage of precision mouse aiming? Not even close.
And yeah, I need an explanation of what rail gunning is, and how a kb/m setup prevents it...
|
|
mmacola
True Bro
the brazilian guy
Posts: 1,995
|
Post by mmacola on Jul 15, 2012 20:50:11 GMT -5
Calling kb/m more cumbersome for button usage is insane. Equipment usage? Really? I have that bound to one of the two thumb buttons on my mouse. How is that more cumbersome than taking my thumb off the left thumbstick, completely giving up my ability to move until I manage to mash the d-pad and get back? With a standard kb/m setup your hands/fingers are ALWAYS in position to move forward, move backward, aim, ADS, fire, and jump. On console, want to go crouch, jump or change weapons? Well, I guess you won't be needing to turn or aim for a little while little buddy! Actually, on console that issue is so annoying that for changing weapons I actually curl my index finger back over to hit the button. Now that's cumbersome. And yes, as was mentioned, there are devices with thumbsticks for movement that you can use with the Xim. I have a G13, which has a thumbstick, but it's at an awkward angle so in the end I decided not to use it. CoD is fast paced enough to where it's pretty rare you don't want to be moving at full speed anyway. The only real purpose for it is precision using mind bullets. I find that crouch-walking is good enough for most slow-walking applications, you easily max out your no-footsteps speed, and it's pretty slow, if you need to hit an exact spot it's pretty easy. Does that advantage compete with the advantage of precision mouse aiming? Not even close. And yeah, I need an explanation of what rail gunning is, and how a kb/m setup prevents it... Kwik Scoping. And I'm alright with curving the index finger, it lets me dropshot with my Default Settings while I aim with my thumb and fire with my middle finger. Unless you're pretty skilled (or change the configurations), knifing or dropshotting with a keyboard is a mess. You will probably not do it right. I've seen many PC gameplays and most of them there is no knifing/dropshotting, which can prove to be a pain against players that are easily able to do so. |
|
|
|
Post by Megaqwerty on Jul 15, 2012 22:02:14 GMT -5
I read somewhere Microsoft tested the idea of having PC and XBOX players play on the same servers. It's possible, but they never did it because in game tests, the PC players DOMINATED the XBOX players like 95% of the time. The controller simply cannot compete with the mouse. Didn't shadowrun support pc/xbox cross compatibility? The article b0xr read was most definitely in regards to Shadowrun where that phenomenon was observed if consoles did not receive aim assist. Unless you're pretty skilled (or change the configurations), knifing or dropshotting with a keyboard is a mess. Don't know if you've ever played Call of Duty on PC, but the default key binds are a joke and I highly doubt anyone but newbs use it purely as is. Some great examples: G for Lethals. Have fun holding that down while moving and aiming. V for Melee. See above. Ctrl for Prone. Because being able to drop to prone while moving and aiming is more important than, I don't know, using grenades. 2 to switch weapons. I, uh, guess this is close to WASD. CoD 4 has some funny ones: 4 for special grenades. 5 for equipment. 6 for killstreaks. Seems legit. The beauty of this scheme however is that you can (and should) completely discard all of this and build your own key binds that you find logical and match your play style, something that is impossible on consoles, save the Wii version. |
|
|
|
Post by CRAZ33 G on Jul 16, 2012 9:59:43 GMT -5
Disadvantages Left/Right movement and equipment usage more cumbersome Inability to rail gun Care to elaborate? People have no difficulty doing these on PC. So my understanding to rail gun is that you need to squeeze the ADS trigger (on xbox controller) to start the zoom-in process and get the cross hairs partly lined before firing before full ADS. Using a mouse button there is no gradual ADS, it is either all or nothing. You can sort of do it but not like pros, or maybe its just my lack of practice. Secondly on a xbox/ps3 controller your left/right index fingers are generally lay on the grenade/equipment LB/RB buttons, therefore you can press them instantly plus you can still use your thumbs to strafe and turn. Using a keyboard and WASD, I generally bind Q and E to equipment/grenade, therefore when moving my index or third finger I lose the ability to turn in strafe/move one direction, plus there is a millisecond delay in moving to that key. Additionally when using 1/2/3 binded to change weapon / killstreaks I can't always hit the right key without looking and sometimes die whilst doing this. I have lost games or killstreaks over this but being old skool find it hard to change my habits...... I believe you can get a nunchuck controller for the other hand which would be the optimum setup but haven't looked into this yet. |
|
|
|
Post by illram on Jul 16, 2012 11:51:08 GMT -5
Maybe it was hand size/not using some fancypants gaming keyboard/whatever but no matter what key binds I tried, even with thumb buttons on my mouse, it was uncomfortable to use the full range of stuff I can do easily on a controller. For instance with the thumb buttons on my mouse, when I would use them to nade or knife, (a) they were close together so sometimes I would press the wrong one and (b) their position made it such that by moving my thumb, I lost a good handle on the mouse and could not aim it as well when my thumb moved to press them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Megaqwerty on Jul 16, 2012 13:45:25 GMT -5
So my understanding to rail gun is that you need to squeeze the ADS trigger (on xbox controller) to start the zoom-in process and get the cross hairs partly lined before firing before full ADS. Using a mouse button there is no gradual ADS, it is either all or nothing. There is no gradual ADS for anyone on any console: it is always all or nothing. Console users receive aim assist, but that is regardless of what controller they use, be that Dualshock or mouse. Using a keyboard and WASD, I generally bind Q and E to equipment/grenade, therefore when moving my index or third finger I lose the ability to turn in strafe/move one direction, plus there is a millisecond delay in moving to that key. Mouse buttons solve virtually all the control issues you bring up. Offhand, I have equipment, melee, and switch weapon on my mouse. There is a millisecond delay to move your index fingers up from the triggers on a controller up to the bumpers. Additionally when using 1/2/3 binded to change weapon / killstreaks I can't always hit the right key without looking and sometimes die whilst doing this. I have lost games or killstreaks over this but being old skool find it hard to change my habits...... Default key binds suck. A lot. |
|
mmacola
True Bro
the brazilian guy
Posts: 1,995
|
Post by mmacola on Jul 16, 2012 19:58:14 GMT -5
There is a millisecond delay to move your index fingers up from the triggers on a controller up to the bumpers. Hm? Middle finger. No delay at all (good for them throwing knives) |
|
|
|
Post by Megaqwerty on Jul 17, 2012 11:27:52 GMT -5
Most people don't use a controller like that. You can also use a claw grip for ready access to the face buttons (given the complaints regarding knifing, this is apparently highly desirable), but it's highly unergonomic.
Mice buttons are ergonomic, but do require that you purchase your own mouse rather than just using the one that came with your computer.
|
|
mmacola
True Bro
the brazilian guy
Posts: 1,995
|
Post by mmacola on Jul 17, 2012 11:50:48 GMT -5
Most people don't use a controller like that. I disagree. This is how people do the "silenced shot" trickshot, so it's not that uncommon. It really helps. |
|
|
|
Post by Pegasus Actual on Jul 17, 2012 16:44:28 GMT -5
The silenced shot? Really? I had to look it up on YouTube, but I can say with confidence that I haven't seen it once in 400+ hours of MW3 gameplay.... and I watch most of my killcams.
But let's say you do use a console controller in that way, each index and middle finger covering a trigger, a thumb on each stick... so that gives you 6 buttons. The thumbstick buttons are of limited use, you can only use them for clicks that don't need to quickly repeat, or a click and hold. The others are fairly versatile. That's six buttons total If you need to press any other button on the controller, varying degrees of travel are required for your thumbs, abandoning important. movement controls.
Let's go with a conservative kb/m setup... you have WASD on movement, and your wrist doing mouse look. That leaves two dedicated button pressing fingers on your left hand... and on the right you have mouse 1, mouse 2,, mousewheel click (which falls into that more limited void like the thumbstick clicks). Even if that's all you have, you're already at five, but then I'll have two thumb buttons that I can hit without moving my thumb, just flexing different muscles in it, i can also bind mousewheel up and mousewheel down to stuff like killstreak cycle/use, my keyboard hand pinkie can easily cover two buttons, in my case sprint and prone, so I'm already up to ten buttons that I can use without impacting my ability to move with WASD and aim with the mouse. And of course I also have access to QRTFCZ quite easily with only giving up strafing. On a mouse/keyboard setup I have access to more buttons than I'd ever need for a CoD game.
I'm just not seeing it. Dropshotting and knifing are fine with a keyboard, certainly nothing on the level of curving your index finger back over the top of the controller. As a counter-example of annoying but useful techniques, I very rarely see people jumping around corners on console, where as on PC it's a borderline plague. Why? Because on PC you can jump and aim at the same time... on console you lose all ability to aim right at the crucial moment where you are trying to track the corner with your crosshairs...
|
|
mmacola
True Bro
the brazilian guy
Posts: 1,995
|
Post by mmacola on Jul 17, 2012 16:55:58 GMT -5
Watch this clip. In only 30 seconds of video, you will see 4 persons jumping (and most trickshots use the middle finger on the trigger btw)
Given my limited PC game experience, I can tell that the Grenade button can't be on the keyboard, since it will be a pain to cook it while moving. It's now on the scroll and it's that where it will be. Any button assigned to Q or E will be hard to press while strafing. And as a simple observation, you can't walk slowly on the keyboard. It's all or nothing. Thumbs can give different levels of speed. With thumbs it's also easier to strafe, since you don't really need to change where you are looking for to go in multiple directions, against a keyboard setup in which you are locked to 8 direction (N, S, E, W, NE, NW, SE, SW). Sure, these are not a big deal, but it's worth noting.
|
|
|
|
Post by Megaqwerty on Jul 17, 2012 18:20:30 GMT -5
Watch this clip. In only 30 seconds of video, you will see 4 persons jumping (and most trickshots use the middle finger on the trigger btw) Given my limited PC game experience, I can tell that the Grenade button can't be on the keyboard, since it will be a pain to cook it while moving. No one uses a bunny hop to any effect in that video though. Looks like you're not bad with the Spas however. Grenade can be on the keyboard, but you are absolutely correct in that you must be able to move, aim, and hold down the key. I use Ctrl for this reason. |
|
cmck
True Bro
Hit him again!
Posts: 1,752
|
Post by cmck on Jul 17, 2012 19:55:46 GMT -5
I can hit jump with minimal effort on a controller due to resting my thumb on the outside edge of the stick which is where its comfortable and I can set my index finger in between the two triggers so I can hit either or at any time.
|
|
wwaa
True Bro
PC / PS4 / X1
Posts: 2,086
|
Post by wwaa on Jul 18, 2012 3:24:32 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by prinsmp on Jul 18, 2012 9:43:57 GMT -5
Man, just use a Splitfish, Fragnstein or Aimon. Seems way more relaxt, playing without a keyboard.
|
|
|
|
Post by llednik on Jul 18, 2012 15:04:34 GMT -5
Anyone who thinks that a keyboard limits a player in any way that is an actual disadvantage is wrong. You say that a thumbstick has the ability to give varying degrees of movement speed? I say that tapping a key at different speeds provides the same effect. A keyboard prevents bunny hopping/dropshotting? nonsense, it makes them both easier. Bunny hopping can easily be done with full control of your aim the whole way through.(scuff controllers and possibly razer onzas allow this to) Drop shotting is easier as well because I don't have to put pressure on to my thumb stick which for some(not all) make it harder to aim. Panic knifing? Easily accessible via thumb button on the mouse. If you found m/kb to be cumbersome and limiting then it was either your own inability or just low quality equipment.
|
|
|
|
Post by Megaqwerty on Jul 18, 2012 16:47:34 GMT -5
First time I played Call of Duty on an Xbox, I saw LS to sprint and said, "Fuck this shit."
I had played with a classic controller on the Wii, but that assigns sprint to a face button since that controller lacks L/R 3.
|
|
mmacola
True Bro
the brazilian guy
Posts: 1,995
|
Post by mmacola on Jul 18, 2012 19:15:04 GMT -5
Anyone who thinks that a keyboard limits a player in any way that is an actual disadvantage is wrong. You say that a thumbstick has the ability to give varying degrees of movement speed? I say that tapping a key at different speeds provides the same effect. A keyboard prevents bunny hopping/dropshotting? nonsense, it makes them both easier. Bunny hopping can easily be done with full control of your aim the whole way through.(scuff controllers and possibly razer onzas allow this to) Drop shotting is easier as well because I don't have to put pressure on to my thumb stick which for some(not all) make it harder to aim. Panic knifing? Easily accessible via thumb button on the mouse. If you found m/kb to be cumbersome and limiting then it was either your own inability or just low quality equipment. Yeah it's low quality. I don't use my pc for gaming, so I don't have the fancy equipment like thumb button on my mouse. A friend of mine, however, has one of those custom mouses and he says if you don't use it, you're screwed. His have like 3 thumb buttons + sensitivity buttons on the top. I prefer to buy a controller really. Much more comfortable. My aim is pretty good as well (especially now that I've disabled Vibration for a more steadier aim), will show video later. |
|
|
|
Post by Megaqwerty on Jul 19, 2012 11:12:23 GMT -5
Black Ops PC officially supports Xbox controllers so there you go. No aim assist though, so, uh, there you go.
|
|
|
|
Post by aidsaidsaids on Jul 24, 2012 5:53:00 GMT -5
Didn't shadowrun support pc/xbox cross compatibility? Yes, it did. Xbox got aim assist, PC did not. It's pretty fair, given the mechanics of that game. |
|
Spitfire
True Bro
Buff the Juggernaut!
Posts: 67
|
Post by Spitfire on Jul 25, 2012 11:10:10 GMT -5
Is aim assist enabled on PC whilst using a gamepad/controller? I saw a player yesterday who prefered using one while on PC. He went 1/34.
|
|
cmck
True Bro
Hit him again!
Posts: 1,752
|
Post by cmck on Jul 25, 2012 15:39:20 GMT -5
No aim assist on PC no matter what. It supports the xbox controller as far as I can remember mega saying, but it won't give it the benefits it has with consoles. Maybe if you try to adjust aim bot to be less perfect so it feels like consoles it could work, but that sounds like a lot of work that can't be done unless you know what you're doing.
|
|
|
|
Post by Megaqwerty on Jul 26, 2012 15:41:29 GMT -5
Maybe if you try to adjust aim bot to be less perfect so it feels like consoles it could work, but that sounds like a lot of work that can't be done unless you know what you're doing. As far as I know, you set the degrees of tolerance under which the aim bot will snap to targets when firing. That wouldn't replicate aim assist in any way. Halo 2 PC gave aim assist to Xbox controllers and I believe that move pissed off much of the PC community. |
|
slowriot
True Bro
Lift Your Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven
Posts: 821 
|
Post by slowriot on Jul 26, 2012 18:08:00 GMT -5
you dont want aim assist either way.. also, why would you use an xbox controller over the ps3 controller on the pc? both work just fine, and the ps3 controller works with bluetooth. any pc game that uses a mouse and keyboard can use a ps3 controller, even if it is not natively supported by the game. dont handicap your accuracy for no reason.
its all about the deadzone.
|
|
|
|
Post by aidsaidsaids on Jul 30, 2012 14:56:20 GMT -5
The xbox controller is the most ergonomic masterpiece of this generation. I don't know about all that, but it beats the living shit out of the ps3 controller. |
|
cmck
True Bro
Hit him again!
Posts: 1,752
|
Post by cmck on Jul 30, 2012 15:00:00 GMT -5
No Ps3 controller wins.
|
|
|
|
Post by ElysMustache on Aug 1, 2012 15:16:34 GMT -5
The xbox controller is the most ergonomic masterpiece of this generation. I don't know about all that, but it beats the living doo-doo out of the ps3 controller. My response to the terrible ergonomics of the PS3 controller. Duct tape, toilet-paper tubes, and athletic tape:  My attempt at a Franken-controller was much more ambitious, as well as ultimately more ill-fated:  The lengths I felt necessary to go are more indicative of my hatred for the PS3 controller than any words I could share with you. |
|
|
|
Post by llednik on Aug 1, 2012 16:40:24 GMT -5
I'm guessing a dremmel tool.
|
|
|
|
Post by ElysMustache on Aug 1, 2012 21:32:14 GMT -5
What the hell did you try to take that thing apart with? Mostly a Saws-all (reciprocating saw). Used needle-nosed pliers to gut what was left. It almost worked. But the heat lamp I used to cure the JB Weld faster melted some plastic bits on the aftermarket PS3 controller. |
|
