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Post by flatulentmonkeys on Dec 16, 2015 16:04:10 GMT -5
Communities will always bitch. Doesn't mean they don't have a leg to stand on. Contradicting arguments can both be laced in truth.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 16, 2015 16:19:13 GMT -5
This is hilarious. Last title the community bitched about too much SBMM. This title, they are bitching about not enough SBMM. I wouldn't be surprised if the matchmaking code is exactly the same. People aren't complaining about "not enough SBMM" for BO3. They are complaining about badly implimented team balancing in BO3 that needs to be tweaked or reworked. No one is asking for the annoying SBMM from AW.
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wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
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Post by wings on Dec 16, 2015 16:22:54 GMT -5
This is hilarious. Last title the community bitched about too much SBMM. This title, they are bitching about not enough SBMM. You mean the same community that overly favours CQC to the extent we have pillow feet and near-permanent radar in Black Ops 2 but shotguns cannot OHK beyond an inch? And then they complain about quicks copers in Black Ops 2, and then moan that snipers are tactical loitering too much in Ghosts?
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banana
True Banana
Zoro > Law
Posts: 1,577
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Post by banana on Dec 16, 2015 16:27:05 GMT -5
Ideally you want the lobby to balance so that the teams are: - Team A: 1,3,5,8,10,12 - Team B: 2,4,6,7,9,11 It's more complicated then that imo. What if: #1 has 2000 spm #2 has 1500 #3 has 1499 #4 has 1000 #1 + #3 = 3499 while the other team has 2500 In that scenario #1 + #4 and #2 + #3 would be best. 3000 vs 2999 It'd be best to have the averages as close as possible. Then I guess Treyarch could track how close the average game is to see if SPM is even a good metric to use
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ookjawa
True Bro
Needs more shotgun.
Posts: 192
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Post by ookjawa on Dec 16, 2015 18:26:49 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, Dan Bunting discussed this a bit in one of the pre-release Friday developer videos. He mentioned that connection is king when building lobbies, but that SBMM is used for team balancing. The in-lobby SBMM definitely seems to create a more harsh divide than past Treyarch CoDs; my friend and I (both above average players) have played very few games without at least two of the bottom three players in the lobby on our team. Whether this is a good or bad thing is a different conversation, but it's certainly noticeable.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 16, 2015 23:52:41 GMT -5
Ideally you want the lobby to balance so that the teams are: - Team A: 1,3,5,8,10,12 - Team B: 2,4,6,7,9,11 It's more complicated then that imo. What if: #1 has 2000 spm #2 has 1500 #3 has 1499 #4 has 1000 #1 + #3 = 3499 while the other team has 2500 In that scenario #1 + #4 and #2 + #3 would be best. 3000 vs 2999 It'd be best to have the averages as close as possible. Then I guess Treyarch could track how close the average game is to see if SPM is even a good metric to use Trying to just average everything out is exactly what is causing the team balancing issues in the first place. You shouldn't give the best player 3 of the 4 worst players.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 18, 2015 9:26:50 GMT -5
My quick thoughts:
- Here we go again. SBMM
- I think it's easy to feel what Driftor is feeling, because playing solo in CoD sucks. Completely blows. It's easy to get bad impressions.
- With that said, I can easily throw my hat into the ring here too. I get the feeling of bafflement. Take this very morning. I played a few games this am. My first game of TDM. No parties in the lobby. Game ends. I go 22-9 and was feeling great. My team lost by like 35 kills though. I looked the scoreboard. I'm fourth prestige. The other five guys on my team hadn't prestiged yet. The other team? Five of the six players were 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 5th and 4th. Obviously, that's not going by KD or SpM, but the end results can't be ignored, in terms of skill. My entire team went dEEEEEEp negative (3-12, 4-16, etc...) So, how the fvck was that MM calculated on that ONE game? How was it possible to form that lobby?
- Someone mentioned this above, but it drives me NUTS how Treyarch's lobby balancing system deliberately juggles the lineups so that people can't see who is on there team. The lobbies start to form, countdown hits, and then very often, the lobby will reshuffle the deck right before the game begins. My hunch is this is deliberate, so people can't cherry pick lobbies.
- Throw this in too. The lobbies are supposed to show any parties, by use of the grey bar. I will say this, I feel this feature doesn't always work. I have seen many of groups in lobbies, but not linked by the grey bar. I often also see one person with a grey bar. One person group? Huh? Or is there a few others, and the grey bar link is broken?
- This wouldn't be hard to test. Especially in TDM, and if the pre-match lobby leaderboards are actually working. The boards show both SpM and KD.
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Post by lustindarkness on Dec 18, 2015 12:09:41 GMT -5
It feels to me that the team balancing may be a bit wonky sometimes but mostly works. But playing solo I do get better connections. When in a party I get more skipping / teleportation.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Dec 18, 2015 14:51:40 GMT -5
Shut up mouse. You had a sub 1KD in BLOPS2. This style of SBMM lobby shuffle only benefits you.
PS:Also you're a mouse.
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Post by lackingdamage on Dec 18, 2015 15:15:32 GMT -5
Not noticed any difference in terms of teammates only the ping quality is better
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 18, 2015 15:38:44 GMT -5
Shut up mouse. You had a sub 1KD in BLOPS2. This style of SBMM lobby shuffle only benefits you. PS:Also you're a mouse. To be fair, having team balancing that works well (as in doesn't punish the good player by giving him 4 of the worst 5 players in the lobby) can benefit almost everyone because it better allows players to learn to get better while still allowing people to actually feel like they are improving, not worsening connections, and not worsening lobby searching. Picking what lobby you went into based on your K/D (AW's method) removed the aspect of feeling like you are improving, made connections worse, and made finding a lobby worse.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 18, 2015 15:50:14 GMT -5
about 90% of my blops2 career was spent trying to get the game to run at all. i had like 10 fps and havent actually played it since getting majorly into pc gaming so whatevs. i stand by saying everyone should just fuc king get over it If there are ways for Treyarch to improve it they should definitely be implemented. No need to pair the best player in a lobby with the absolute worst 4 players in the lobby. And the whole SBMM complaints for AW were understandable because they led to visibly worse connections and visibly worse lobby searching.
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Will
True Bro
K/D below 1.0
Posts: 1,309
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Post by Will on Dec 18, 2015 17:22:47 GMT -5
And the whole SBMM complaints for AW were understandable because they led to visibly worse connections and visibly worse lobby searching. I disagree with this statement. My connections in AW were far superior to this game. It's all anecdotal. As said above, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't change a darn thing in the matchmaking code between titles.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Dec 18, 2015 18:01:26 GMT -5
The strongest case against SBMM is that Drifty believes in it.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 18, 2015 18:10:10 GMT -5
And the whole SBMM complaints for AW were understandable because they led to visibly worse connections and visibly worse lobby searching. I disagree with this statement. My connections in AW were far superior to this game. It's all anecdotal. As said above, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't change a darn thing in the matchmaking code between titles. The only connection issues I face with BO3 all seem to be related to my XB1's operating system fucking things up and is very rarely related to Treyarch's servers or matchmaking code. Meanwhile in AW connection issues happened regardless of how the operating system is doing, partly because of the matchmaking and partly because of the ingame lag minimum. Also you don't see people complaining about PC version never finding a lobby in BO3 like you saw with AW, which obviously is going to partially be because BO3 is getting more PC players but is also because AW's matchmaking was far inferior to BO3's matchmaking.
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tiesieman
True Bro
mental lagger
Posts: 1,401
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Post by tiesieman on Dec 18, 2015 18:10:57 GMT -5
huh i thought u ppl were cool with drfitor
what happened
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Post by nopington on Dec 18, 2015 18:28:07 GMT -5
many moons ago i discovered the secret to sbmm While I agree somewhat, being good can only get you so far. (Not my image -- it belongs to @notnategibson on Twitter.)
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Post by GodMars on Dec 18, 2015 20:03:38 GMT -5
huh i thought u ppl were cool with drfitor what happened It's an internet forum. You even have to ask?
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Post by lustindarkness on Dec 18, 2015 20:29:25 GMT -5
driftor killed my family and doesnt seed his torrents That's horrible! Not seeding his torrents is unforgivable.
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tiesieman
True Bro
mental lagger
Posts: 1,401
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Post by tiesieman on Dec 18, 2015 20:51:21 GMT -5
who uses torrents its 2015
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Post by GodMars on Dec 18, 2015 21:04:35 GMT -5
who uses torrents its 2015 Most people who file share.
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Will
True Bro
K/D below 1.0
Posts: 1,309
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Post by Will on Dec 18, 2015 21:05:06 GMT -5
What? Torrenting is out? Wtffffff I still torrent everything. What is better?
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Dec 18, 2015 21:06:31 GMT -5
What? Torrenting is out? Wtffffff I still torrent everything. What is better? Buying things.
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banana
True Banana
Zoro > Law
Posts: 1,577
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Post by banana on Dec 18, 2015 23:00:40 GMT -5
huh i thought u ppl were cool with drfitor what happened I still am
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Post by kylet357 on Dec 18, 2015 23:53:35 GMT -5
What? Torrenting is out? Wtffffff I still torrent everything. What is better? Buying things. You say that as if we have money to buy these..."things".
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 19, 2015 14:35:14 GMT -5
Funny how part of this thread was about SBMM and Treyarch ends up adding it to BO3.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Dec 19, 2015 14:47:45 GMT -5
What? Torrenting is out? Wtffffff I still torrent everything. What is better? Buying things. Hey some legal things use torrenting too.
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Post by xFEARtheSHIELDx on Dec 19, 2015 14:58:25 GMT -5
Holy crap, check out the BO3 reddit right now, the ENTIRE FIRST PAGE is nothing but people losing their minds over SBMM, save for one post (out of 25). And that's after adding a sticky for SBMM to clean up the spam, lol
GG, treyarch.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 19, 2015 15:04:01 GMT -5
Holy crap, check out the BO3 reddit right now, the ENTIRE FIRST PAGE is nothing but people losing their minds over SBMM, save for one post. GG, treyarch. Treyarch basically has three paths to pick in response: 1) Do what SHG did and completely deny/ignore all the issues that SBMM causes, which will inevitably ruin the game's popularity in less populated regions and make a lot of PC users stop playing. 2) Remove the recently added SBMM and do nothing else, which would be better than the current issues, but would still just put us back at square one. 3) Remove the SBMM and rework the team balancing to take things like standard deviation into account more, which would fix the current problems and mostly fix the old problems.
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Post by xFEARtheSHIELDx on Dec 19, 2015 15:13:38 GMT -5
I really don't see team balancing as THAT big of a problem. Is it really that hard to party up with one other decent player?
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