hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 30, 2014 12:38:09 GMT -5
Something else to keep in mind, iw5000, is that they've already said for the next Iron Banner that they're planning a change to allow the Iron Banner armor to hit 30 light, making it equivalent to the VoG raid gear. There will be a grind to rank up to be able to buy it I'm sure, and I guess they may not be selling the piece you need when you need it, but there will be other ways to get to 30 eventually. Witty makes a good point about the new raid gear probably having more light as well. That doesn't excuse the current problems with the RNG lottery by any means, but there's at least hope that it may be better soon. |
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 30, 2014 12:49:08 GMT -5
iw5000: to answer your questions and address you concerns: 1) the new raid: I fully expect it to be opened at level 28, for following reasons: a) 28 can be reached without RNG (so is 29), and 2) VoG opened up at level 26, 4 levels below cap; That would help ease some of my concerns, but you are still missing one key point. The current 'normal' VoG raid on level 26, has level 28 enemies on it at the end during the Gatekeeper and Atheon stage. Level 25, 26, & 27 have serious penalties going on. If a new Raid comes out starting on level 28, that means enemies at level 30 will be at the end. This means I (and many others) still stuck in the Random Loot Hellzone, are being penalized. Remember this. Originally, with the VoG, you did NOT need Raid gear to get to the equalizing point, where you avoided damage penalties. One could get to level 28 with regular gear you could buy openly and have no penalty while doing the normal Raid. If the new raid goes as you say, (Lv 28), those of us in Random Loot Hellzone are going to be penalized. Again...I pay $20 for a new Raid, only to be told I am at a penalty when playing it? That sucks. It will be like getting a new Raid, but it's only on 'Hard' mode for me. That's rough. And other people we know, below you and I? They are screwed. They haven't even begun the endless VoG looting lottery wheel yet. If doing two to three VoG raid runs a week for weeks and weeks right now...doesn't get me regular Raid gear, why would we assume getting higher level gear would be easier? Not trying to be a smart-azz there, just wondering if you know something or read something that hinted the process was going to be changed? I've got almost 24 hours of raiding already put in, without any gear whatsoever. Is something better with this new raid? Halo, CoD....the experience is different. I can not play the game for months, and then jump right in and play on equal terms with my friends. Destiny? The best parts of the game, the raiding, require one to keep up with the front of the pack. At some point, if you don't keep up, fall behind....it's going to be a lonely place trying to do raids. |
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wings
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Post by wings on Oct 30, 2014 12:53:31 GMT -5
Just ranked up New Monarchy to rank 2 with my Hunter and got nothing, so there may be some coding that gives diminishing returns for those who rank up more than one faction per character. So even no-lifers get punished. So I purchased my favourite cloak, Strength of the Pack, from The Speaker earlier than planned. I don't think I've ever gotten anything for hitting rank 2 with any faction with any character. I thought rewards started at rank 3. I was awarded armour for reaching Vanguard Rank 2 for all three of my characters and reaching rank 2 for the Future War Cult for my Titan. |
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 30, 2014 12:58:52 GMT -5
Something else to keep in mind, iw5000, is that they've already said for the next Iron Banner that they're planning a change to allow the Iron Banner armor to hit 30 light, making it equivalent to the VoG raid gear. There will be a grind to rank up to be able to buy it I'm sure, and I guess they may not be selling the piece you need when you need it, but there will be other ways to get to 30 eventually. Witty makes a good point about the new raid gear probably having more light as well. That doesn't excuse the current problems with the RNG lottery by any means, but there's at least hope that it may be better soon. Again, what I said to Witty. If I can't win the right Raid gear playing the VoG lottery wheel game.....why would I assume the odds will be better with the new Raid? As far as Iron Banner. I don't have any trust with this. I hope you are right, but why would we think Bungie will fix the process? Bungie apparently feels a player should average three hours a day playing, to be able to get the good stuff (Raid gear). Until that changes, my guess is this Iron Banner route is just going to be another endless time-grinder of playing dozens and dozens of Crucible games, ...all for the 'chance' of getting the right piece of gear. I already went through the Crucible Rep leveling stuff, to get to level 3. It took FOREVER. Now I have to repeat this again? Ughh. |
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Oct 30, 2014 13:09:11 GMT -5
Halo, CoD....the experience is different. I can not play the game for months, and then jump right in and play on equal terms with my friends. Destiny? The best parts of the game, the raiding, require one to keep up with the front of the pack. At some point, if you don't keep up, fall behind....it's going to be a lonely place trying to do raids. Because you're a COD vet. I specifically bought Destiny because I don't have to play it every day to learn things. Someone who knows the maps, the weapons, the unlocked higher level goods, and other unpatched exploits of COD will have a vast edge over someone like me who won't be able to game COD every day. I can take a break from Destiny for days and not feel that I am "behind" Granted, I haven't played much of the end game content, but so far, I love what I've seen from Destiny and I am confident I made the right decision to get Destiny over CODAW. While others are playing the new bestponys, I'll still be here |
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 30, 2014 13:12:31 GMT -5
Well, there isn't just a chance at getting the right gear from Iron Banner. The vendor sells a specific piece or two each time. If it's not the one you need, then you don't bother grinding for it. Regarding the Crota's End raid gear, odds may not be any better, but when you do get a piece the light level on it will be higher which would make it a little easier to hit 30 at least. Obviously you'll still have to get them all to hit 32 so no help there. I've also seen some stuff about exotic armor shards and exotic weapon cores in the expansion content, the purpose of which is seemingly to upgrade your existing armor and weapons. So it could be possible to use some of those exotic shards on your current armor and be able to raise the light level that way. All speculation at this point, obviously, but I'm hopeful that improvements are coming.
Or Bungie could totally screw the pooch and leave it as the huge RNGfest we have now.
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 30, 2014 13:16:17 GMT -5
Marco Polo,
You make a good point. And you are right about Destiny.
But here's the thing you are missing. You aren't at the point of approaching the Raiding process yet. You'll have to take my word on this, but the best part of the game is that process. The part where you get to Level 25 to 28, where the good guns start coming in, you do more Nightfalls, and best of all, start the Raids. IMHO, that is the only real reason to play this game. Anyone telling you differently is feeding you bvllshit. EVERYONE loves this stage and no one just 'stops' when getting to it, to play the old way. The thing here is this. You just don't realize it yet. The stuff you are doing now will pale in comparison to the end content. And once you get a taste of it, the earlier stuff you did will become a bit worn and dull.
And that is what makes the VoG Looting game so frustrating. You are completely at the mercy of the Looting Hellzone. At the levels you are at now.....you don't know what this feels like. Early on, there are no restrictions on your progress. You can freely level up by many different ways, and it feels easy and fun. But you will get to the point I am talking about, and when you do, you'll see where I am coming from.
I wish the above wasn't the case. I really don't. I am having fun with this game. But the above, seeing this happening, frustrates me.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 30, 2014 13:47:20 GMT -5
I think that we universally agree that total RNG on Raid Gear is bad design  That said, based on what we saw so far, even the most unlucky players (say Aroc ) can finally reach level 30 after a few weeks of raiding. We are still 5+ weeks from expansion packs, that translates into at least 10 normal raids for you (assuming that you still play Destiny for raid), the odds are good that you will get the Raid Gear you need (you just need 1 more piece). Since raiding itself is fun, doing 2 per week shouldn't be too much of a drag In the worst case scenario, say you are going into the new Raid at level 29. It won't be that different from level 27 going into VoG, which is perfectly playable if you have solid weapons. In short, I am not worried In case I did not make myself clear, one key point that I have been trying to make is this: |
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Oct 30, 2014 13:52:37 GMT -5
Marco Polo, You make a good point. And you are right about Destiny. But here's the thing you are missing. You aren't at the point of approaching the Raiding process yet. You'll have to take my word on this, but the best part of the game is that process. The part where you get to Level 25 to 28, where the good guns start coming in, you do more Nightfalls, and best of all, start the Raids. IMHO, that is the only real reason to play this game. Anyone telling you differently is feeding you bvllshit. EVERYONE loves this stage and no one just 'stops' when getting to it, to play the old way. The thing here is this. You just don't realize it yet. The stuff you are doing now will pale in comparison to the end content. And once you get a taste of it, the earlier stuff you did will become a bit worn and dull. And that is what makes the VoG Looting game so frustrating. You are completely at the mercy of the Looting Hellzone. At the levels you are at now.....you don't know what this feels like. Early on, there are no restrictions on your progress. You can freely level up by many different ways, and it feels easy and fun. But you will get to the point I am talking about, and when you do, you'll see where I am coming from. I wish the above wasn't the case. I really don't. I am having fun with this game. But the above, seeing this happening, frustrates me. I know Destiny isn't a MMO.... but I approach it as, Anywho... I played DDO... and one of the best parts of it was greensteel crafting and dragonscale rune farming. The first was a raid, that you got components to make greensteel weapons and armour (high end loot) I did that raid like nobody's business... I needed 1 component and ran raids twice a day for a month and did not get that componant. I did one mission 50 times a day for a week, and did not get the rune I needed for my armour. I know about the grind. I have the scars. I'll be okay. EDIT: Another thing, because I'm going so slow, I know that there are pitfalls. there are frustrations. There are aggrivations. People are hitting that wall and are getting mad. And I know Bungie will do something about it. So, us slower players, rely on the power gamers to clear out the bugs for us so by the time we hit those frustrations, we hope that Bungie will have nerfed/negated them ;> |
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 30, 2014 13:55:28 GMT -5
To be honest, I am not worried about you lol. I am more concerned if I will make it.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Oct 30, 2014 14:01:28 GMT -5
To be honest, I am not worried about you lol. I am more concerned if I will make it. I believe in you buddy. If you were on the PS4, we could do an intervention or a crisis response situation |
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 30, 2014 14:02:16 GMT -5
I think that we universally agree that total RNG on Raid Gear is bad design That said, based on what we saw so far, even the most unlucky players (say Aroc ) can finally reach level 30 after a few weeks of raiding. We are still 5+ weeks from expansion packs, that translates into at least 10 normal raids for you (assuming that you still play Destiny for raid), the odds are good that you will get the Raid Gear you need (you just need 1 more piece). Since raiding itself is fun, doing 2 per week shouldn't be too much of a drag In the worst case scenario, say you are going into the new Raid at level 29. It won't be that different from level 27 going into VoG, which is perfectly playable if you have solid weapons. In short, I am not worried In case I did not make myself clear, one key point that I have been trying to make is this: I hope you are right. I think Aroc went three to four weeks, with three characters, and most of them he was doing normal and hard mode on all. So that's like 12 normal attempts to complete gear needs. And when you include his Hard mode attempts, that's the equivalent of two normal runs (double the rewards?), that's another 24?So he did the equivalent of 12 to 24 attempts to get his two characters done. I'm working on normal VoG attempt #6 very soon (are you playing tonight?). I don't want to think that I might have to go another six to twelve attempts to complete the last piece of gear. Which doesn't even take into account my second character. Hard Mode is much harder now, it's tough finding people (a few of the lv 30's I know aren't playing as much). That leaves normal mode, and I can only do two attempts a week. If it goes the full twelve attempts, that's six more weeks of waiting. |
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 30, 2014 14:11:31 GMT -5
Yes, I will play tonight. I will update the LFG thread momentarily.
Let's assume the worst, and here is what's going to happen to the most unlucky player:
1) No raid gear of any kind ever. Even with this, he can reach level 29 by: 1 fully upgraded exotic gear = 30 light, + 2 fully upgraded legendary gear = 27 * 2 = 54, + 1 partially upgraded legendary gear of 25 light = 109 => level 29; Granted that would require a lot of shards, many of them wasted, but totally doable without RNG;
2) When the new raid comes, he plays the normal version at level 29, not ideal but totally doable. He now can do at least 1 hard on VoG and 1 normal on new Raid per week, so his odds of getting past level 30 are much better;
3) As we all know, getting one piece of raid gear from a raid is not hard. Say he finally gets 1 from VoG and 1 from the new Raid, that can easily get him over level 30. By then he should be able to do hard VoG in his sleep, keep pounding on the two raids and he will reach level 31 in a reasonable amount of time, enough to play the new Raid at hard difficulty;
For practical purposes, he already unlocked everything. Whether or not to reach level 32 is just a goal itself, not very significant.
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wings
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Post by wings on Oct 30, 2014 15:04:18 GMT -5
To be honest, I am not worried about you lol. I am more concerned if I will make it. Gunsmith is selling rare fusion rifles now btw. |
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Post by Dumien on Oct 30, 2014 16:47:14 GMT -5
It's no secret that I put in 272 hours before I got "everything I wanted."
At no other time in my life will I have this much time to dedicate to a game lol...This is a very rare occasion.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 30, 2014 17:07:17 GMT -5
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 30, 2014 17:27:39 GMT -5
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Post by psychlon on Oct 30, 2014 22:07:52 GMT -5
Loot: I prefer randomness for various reason and the guy in the vid explained it perfectly. The only adjustment to be made is smart loot on raids.
Trade: doesn't work, or atleast not with a market in place. Items become cheap in a heart beat and looking at how many people flinch about Xur.. a trade market would take it to a whole new level. Unlike other games... you can use items across characters, they aren't bound to the character you find it with and that's a huge plus.
Gamble: engrams is a gamble and looking at Xur, you are giving him valueable coins for a chance on something.
T-rating: all the rant about how the game was simplified to attract a younger audience, Destiny was never to be a niche game for some people, they always wanted to attract a large crowd.
Gutting: story and content.... how about them working today on content in 1-2 years time instead of content for the near future? Obviously they haven't been very smart with what they were saying, unlike for example Bioware... it seemed they talked about things they have/ will have in place and yet anything before launch is a trial. Stuff which doesn't work as it should, shouldn't be launched. Launching with too many different things only increases the chance of something not working. Looking at Diablo 3, that's exactly what has happened and these guys had years upon years of metrics and experience from World of Warcraft and still didn't manage. The story isn't very strong at its current stage and yet apart from playing through it, I'm just a bystander. I don't have to do any decisions which would affect future events and or my self.
Keeping with the flow: I think Destiny has a very minor amount of time required to get a raid ready character. We are talking days here and everyone gets loot on all corners all the time. I think it's more frustrating for people seriously involved rather than for me for example... leveling 3 characters simultanously. The game is not running away if you don't login for a week and given how many games require daily involvement... that's fantastic.
DLC/ Expansion: The word expansion is usually a large quantity of content. Like a new planet with new missions, strikes, new classes and such. Handing over 1 new strike and some new loot is nothing more than a DLC.
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Post by psychlon on Oct 30, 2014 22:15:18 GMT -5
I don't think I've ever gotten anything for hitting rank 2 with any faction with any character. I thought rewards started at rank 3. I was awarded armour for reaching Vanguard Rank 2 for all three of my characters and reaching rank 2 for the Future War Cult for my Titan. can't remember this... loot for reaching a rank? I bought all legendaries so far and I'm at rank 3. |
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 31, 2014 7:49:03 GMT -5
Done. That's where I stopped reading. Hey Harold, go fvck yourself. No amount of twisting and contorting is going to make people think you had it planned this way. Your plot sucks. Accept it. We all know it. Now go move off of that silliness and fix the stuff that needs fixed. |
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 31, 2014 7:55:49 GMT -5
Yes, I will play tonight. I will update the LFG thread momentarily. Let's assume the worst, and here is what's going to happen to the most unlucky player: 1) No raid gear of any kind ever. Even with this, he can reach level 29 by: 1 fully upgraded exotic gear = 30 light, + 2 fully upgraded legendary gear = 27 * 2 = 54, + 1 partially upgraded legendary gear of 25 light = 109 => level 29; Granted that would require a lot of shards, many of them wasted, but totally doable without RNG; 2) When the new raid comes, he plays the normal version at level 29, not ideal but totally doable. He now can do at least 1 hard on VoG and 1 normal on new Raid per week, so his odds of getting past level 30 are much better; 3) As we all know, getting one piece of raid gear from a raid is not hard. Say he finally gets 1 from VoG and 1 from the new Raid, that can easily get him over level 30. By then he should be able to do hard VoG in his sleep, keep pounding on the two raids and he will reach level 31 in a reasonable amount of time, enough to play the new Raid at hard difficulty; For practical purposes, he already unlocked everything. Whether or not to reach level 32 is just a goal itself, not very significant. RE #3 Not to be a negative nancy, but we don't all know that Witty. I looked at my sheet this morning, updating it after last night's back to back VoG's. I have now gone SIX normal VoG's in a row without getting Raid gear. I have also done 1.5 Hard Raids without any gear too. So that's 7.5 trips through the VoG IN A ROW....with being shutout. I'm going to disagree. It is hard to get gear. And getting the right gear, it requires a simply ridiculous amount of play time. An amount that goes FAR beyond what any casual player can handle. |
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 31, 2014 9:02:53 GMT -5
iw5000: I totally agree with how frustrating the current system is. Last night while you got shut out again, I got another set of gloves for my Hunter that I don't need, and another set of boots for my Warlock that I don't need. Flip those around and I'd have a level 30 Hunter and a level 29 Warlock right now instead of them still being stuck at 29 and 28. At least I finally got my cool cloak and sparkly arm band thing! That being said, our usual Thursday night group is routinely clearing the normal raid in two hours or less. With 3 characters you're looking at probably 6 hours max per week spent raiding, which doesn't even come close to qualifying as a ridiculous amount of play time in my book. Obviously the time spent will change if you're doing it on hard, but you're also doubling your gear chances too so that makes some sense. I think this is going to be even less of an issue starting next week with the CoD:AW release. I can see a lot of people jumping on Destiny solely to raid and maybe do nightfalls or heroics, and then spending the rest of their time playing CoD. That will help Destiny feel less like a grind, and more like a nice change of pace from the constant CoDing. Also, for me at least, the fun I'm having running raids is far outweighing whatever frustrations I have with the loot system. After I logged off last night, I wasn't thinking about how annoyed I was with the drops I got, I was thinking about how much fun our two successful Atheon fights were, with us overcoming all the glitches and winning anyway. Oh, and pushing you off the ledge in the jump puzzle was pretty fun too, LOL! Oh, and Witty getting lost in the maze for the umpteenth time. Brightness at 2? LOL!!!
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Oct 31, 2014 9:06:32 GMT -5
I think that Witty's point was simply that even if you don't get any raid gear from VoG you should still be able to achieve a level where you can play VoG on hard and Raid#2 on Normal and with the ability to play two raids a week instead of just one the gathering of raid gear should be easier, rather than harder. It will still require the play time and luck, but you'll be able to do more of it and if you do get some gear from Raid# 2 it'll probably have more light.
Personally I don't see this as an issue. Raid gear is the top tier end game content gear and you don't even really NEED it for anything. Of course it's a RNG reward. That's how all the big MMO's that Bungie borrowed so heavily from hand out the rarest high end items in the game. They generally drop as some random loot from a high end boss in a raid dungeon that requires an entire guild to farm for hours and hours just for a small chance of it dropping, and even then often only one set drops and everybody has to wait their turn and roll for it.
Raid gear is mostly a prestige item at this point. Yes it is functional and is the only way to get to level 30 ATM, but there isn't any content that's really gated off from you at level 29, and I believe even one piece can get you to 30. I understand that you're frustrated with the game, but it sounds like you need a break from it.
I don't qualify Destiny as an MMO, but it borrows a lot from them, and game design decisions that you don't agree with and don't favor you is pretty much par for the course as well. In all honesty Destiny is about 1000% more approachable than the average MMO I've played. You really think this level of grind and RNG is a this big deal then you'd have ragequit WoW, EQ, SWG, or pretty much any MMO I've ever played. Now I'm not saying your frustration is unjustified. RNG loot can be very frustrating, and it would be nice if there was a smarter system to it somehow. All I'm saying is that Bungie is just imitating bits and bobs from other games and this type of thing is neither new, nor novel. Is it a way to artificially inflate the difficulty and time investment for end game content... well, yeah. It always has been. But it's also working. Hopefully Bungie will change it to a smarter system at some point, but at least now we are getting a new raid and that could help with the process.
Anyway, take a break, man. Chill out and go play some Ghosts to get your CoD headglitching, dropshotting, camper slaughtering skills warmed up for AW. Or if you do play Destiny, try some other goal so you can just have fun with it. You can always come back.
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 31, 2014 10:31:33 GMT -5
iw5000: I totally agree with how frustrating the current system is. Last night while you got shut out again, I got another set of gloves for my Hunter that I don't need, and another set of boots for my Warlock that I don't need. Flip those around and I'd have a level 30 Hunter and a level 29 Warlock right now instead of them still being stuck at 29 and 28. At least I finally got my cool cloak and sparkly arm band thing! That being said, our usual Thursday night group is routinely clearing the normal raid in two hours or less. With 3 characters you're looking at probably 6 hours max per week spent raiding, which doesn't even come close to qualifying as a ridiculous amount of play time in my book. Obviously the time spent will change if you're doing it on hard, but you're also doubling your gear chances too so that makes some sense. I think this is going to be even less of an issue starting next week with the CoD:AW release. I can see a lot of people jumping on Destiny solely to raid and maybe do nightfalls or heroics, and then spending the rest of their time playing CoD. That will help Destiny feel less like a grind, and more like a nice change of pace from the constant CoDing. Also, for me at least, the fun I'm having running raids is far outweighing whatever frustrations I have with the loot system. After I logged off last night, I wasn't thinking about how annoyed I was with the drops I got, I was thinking about how much fun our two successful Atheon fights were, with us overcoming all the glitches and winning anyway. Oh, and pushing you off the ledge in the jump puzzle was pretty fun too, LOL! Oh, and Witty getting lost in the maze for the umpteenth time. Brightness at 2? LOL!!! Don't get me wrong, I had a lot of fun last night, some of the best raid fun yet. Last night is why I don't want to take a break. And that's what concerns me. If I go another four or five weeks with getting nothing, I will be left behind as people I play with will be at 30,31 and 32, doing the next cool Raid in Dec. I will be the weak link stuck on level 29, taking 40 to 50% damage nerfs to my guns trying to keep up with people. I'm starting to get the feeling that is a real possibility. I've gotten some feedback from other people on how many raids/hours they have attempted to finally finish off their gear needs, to get to 30, and it could in theory be another three to four weeks of attempting (if I go with two characters). If the five to ten people I play with all get to level 31, 32....and I am on 29 still, I will probably most likely quit playing. I don't want that. That would bum me out. Hopefully I am wrong here. I am starting to consider breaking down my level 13 Titan, and making a third Warlock. So as to triple my chances. Seriously considering it this weekend. |
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 31, 2014 10:36:10 GMT -5
I think that Witty's point was simply that even if you don't get any raid gear from VoG you should still be able to achieve a level where you can play VoG on hard and Raid#2 on Normal and with the ability to play two raids a week instead of just one the gathering of raid gear should be easier, rather than harder. It will still require the play time and luck, but you'll be able to do more of it and if you do get some gear from Raid# 2 it'll probably have more light. Personally I don't see this as an issue. Raid gear is the top tier end game content gear and you don't even really NEED it for anything. Of course it's a RNG reward. That's how all the big MMO's that Bungie borrowed so heavily from hand out the rarest high end items in the game. They generally drop as some random loot from a high end boss in a raid dungeon that requires an entire guild to farm for hours and hours just for a small chance of it dropping, and even then often only one set drops and everybody has to wait their turn and roll for it. Raid gear is mostly a prestige item at this point. Yes it is functional and is the only way to get to level 30 ATM, but there isn't any content that's really gated off from you at level 29, and I believe even one piece can get you to 30. I understand that you're frustrated with the game, but it sounds like you need a break from it. I don't qualify Destiny as an MMO, but it borrows a lot from them, and game design decisions that you don't agree with and don't favor you is pretty much par for the course as well. In all honesty Destiny is about 1000% more approachable than the average MMO I've played. You really think this level of grind and RNG is a this big deal then you'd have ragequit WoW, EQ, SWG, or pretty much any MMO I've ever played. Now I'm not saying your frustration is unjustified. RNG loot can be very frustrating, and it would be nice if there was a smarter system to it somehow. All I'm saying is that Bungie is just imitating bits and bobs from other games and this type of thing is neither new, nor novel. Is it a way to artificially inflate the difficulty and time investment for end game content... well, yeah. It always has been. But it's also working. Hopefully Bungie will change it to a smarter system at some point, but at least now we are getting a new raid and that could help with the process. Anyway, take a break, man. Chill out and go play some Ghosts to get your CoD using mind bullets, dropshotting, camper slaughtering skills warmed up for AW. Or if you do play Destiny, try some other goal so you can just have fun with it. You can always come back. That's not my mentality to take a break. It would only eat at me if I put the game away for a week or two. Unfinished business, you know? I can't operate like that. My frustration isn't with the actual 'playing'....that has been fun. Especially now that i have backed off the crucible and have been raiding more. The frustration has been with the being shut out now 7.5x in a row, and the thought that this may continue, screwing me over and leaving me behind others. In my mind, I need this gear to keep having fun down the road. |
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hebbnh
True Bro
Cacodemon expert
Posts: 2,688
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 31, 2014 11:17:11 GMT -5
I hear ya IW, and I'll be in the same boat if I'm unable to get more gear for my characters before the expansion drops. I don't get the impression that any of the guys we regularly play with are going to leave anyone behind though. Dumien still shows up to help us on normal raids even though he just as easily could run hard 3 times a week and call it good. Plus if the new raid works like the VoG does, you won't really be in that bad of shape at 29 anyway -- you'd be the equivalent of a 27 in the VoG, and we've consistently been able to get through that just fine with a mix including multiple "underleveled" characters. Aroc even went through as a 25 a couple times and didn't have that much trouble other than getting one-shotted by hobgoblins in the Atheon part. Sure, that makes things a little tougher, but it's something that good strategy and teamwork can overcome without that much trouble.
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Post by givemelight on Oct 31, 2014 11:19:55 GMT -5
I think that Witty's point was simply that even if you don't get any raid gear from VoG you should still be able to achieve a level where you can play VoG on hard and Raid#2 on Normal and with the ability to play two raids a week instead of just one the gathering of raid gear should be easier, rather than harder. It will still require the play time and luck, but you'll be able to do more of it and if you do get some gear from Raid# 2 it'll probably have more light. Personally I don't see this as an issue. Raid gear is the top tier end game content gear and you don't even really NEED it for anything. Of course it's a RNG reward. That's how all the big MMO's that Bungie borrowed so heavily from hand out the rarest high end items in the game. They generally drop as some random loot from a high end boss in a raid dungeon that requires an entire guild to farm for hours and hours just for a small chance of it dropping, and even then often only one set drops and everybody has to wait their turn and roll for it. Raid gear is mostly a prestige item at this point. Yes it is functional and is the only way to get to level 30 ATM, but there isn't any content that's really gated off from you at level 29, and I believe even one piece can get you to 30. I understand that you're frustrated with the game, but it sounds like you need a break from it. I don't qualify Destiny as an MMO, but it borrows a lot from them, and game design decisions that you don't agree with and don't favor you is pretty much par for the course as well. In all honesty Destiny is about 1000% more approachable than the average MMO I've played. You really think this level of grind and RNG is a this big deal then you'd have ragequit WoW, EQ, SWG, or pretty much any MMO I've ever played. Now I'm not saying your frustration is unjustified. RNG loot can be very frustrating, and it would be nice if there was a smarter system to it somehow. All I'm saying is that Bungie is just imitating bits and bobs from other games and this type of thing is neither new, nor novel. Is it a way to artificially inflate the difficulty and time investment for end game content... well, yeah. It always has been. But it's also working. Hopefully Bungie will change it to a smarter system at some point, but at least now we are getting a new raid and that could help with the process. Anyway, take a break, man. Chill out and go play some Ghosts to get your CoD using mind bullets, dropshotting, camper slaughtering skills warmed up for AW. Or if you do play Destiny, try some other goal so you can just have fun with it. You can always come back. That's not my mentality to take a break. It would only eat at me if I put the game away for a week or two. Unfinished business, you know? I can't operate like that. My frustration isn't with the actual 'playing'....that has been fun. Especially now that i have backed off the crucible and have been raiding more. The frustration has been with the being shut out now 7.5x in a row, and the thought that this may continue, screwing me over and leaving me behind others. In my mind, I need this gear to keep having fun down the road. Cheer up iw5000 - Some of us aren't even far enough along to be in a position to be left behind. (Just hit level 20 on my Titan). Level 28 seems far enough away that I can imagine being left behind by those like yourself who may get left behind!  |
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 31, 2014 11:28:31 GMT -5
A couple of quick notes: 1) mannon: you need 3 pieces of Raid Gear to reach level 30, one of them must be boots because there are no exotic equivalent. You can get to level 29 with 0 but it will cost you a lot of shards to upgrade the new-raid legendary pieces that will eventually be thrown away (well, you can still use them for PvP, so not a 100% complete waste); 2) iw5000: you still have 5 weeks before the expansion pack drops, during which time the other players can only be 1 level above you 3) I also think breaking down your third character and replace it with another warlock is a good idea. With AW coming in 3 days, clan war placement the week after next week, and the first clan war at the end of the month, you won't have much time leveling up your Titan. Might as well turn it into another Warlock to significantly increase your odds of reaching 30. I have (pre) accepted the fact that I won't be level 30 when the expansion comes out. I'll have all 3 of my characters at level 28 by the end of this week, Hunter at level 29 by the end of next week if Xur can stop selling Warlock chest pieces. That's good enough for me to get ready for raid #2. Then with some luck when doing raid #2, get a raid gear to get me past 30. |
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Post by psychlon on Oct 31, 2014 23:19:29 GMT -5
I think that Witty's point was simply that even if you don't get any raid gear from VoG you should still be able to achieve a level where you can play VoG on hard and Raid#2 on Normal and with the ability to play two raids a week instead of just one the gathering of raid gear should be easier, rather than harder. It will still require the play time and luck, but you'll be able to do more of it and if you do get some gear from Raid# 2 it'll probably have more light. Personally I don't see this as an issue. Raid gear is the top tier end game content gear and you don't even really NEED it for anything. Of course it's a RNG reward. That's how all the big MMO's that Bungie borrowed so heavily from hand out the rarest high end items in the game. They generally drop as some random loot from a high end boss in a raid dungeon that requires an entire guild to farm for hours and hours just for a small chance of it dropping, and even then often only one set drops and everybody has to wait their turn and roll for it. Raid gear is mostly a prestige item at this point. Yes it is functional and is the only way to get to level 30 ATM, but there isn't any content that's really gated off from you at level 29, and I believe even one piece can get you to 30. I understand that you're frustrated with the game, but it sounds like you need a break from it. I don't qualify Destiny as an MMO, but it borrows a lot from them, and game design decisions that you don't agree with and don't favor you is pretty much par for the course as well. In all honesty Destiny is about 1000% more approachable than the average MMO I've played. You really think this level of grind and RNG is a this big deal then you'd have ragequit WoW, EQ, SWG, or pretty much any MMO I've ever played. Now I'm not saying your frustration is unjustified. RNG loot can be very frustrating, and it would be nice if there was a smarter system to it somehow. All I'm saying is that Bungie is just imitating bits and bobs from other games and this type of thing is neither new, nor novel. Is it a way to artificially inflate the difficulty and time investment for end game content... well, yeah. It always has been. But it's also working. Hopefully Bungie will change it to a smarter system at some point, but at least now we are getting a new raid and that could help with the process. Anyway, take a break, man. Chill out and go play some Ghosts to get your CoD using mind bullets, dropshotting, camper slaughtering skills warmed up for AW. Or if you do play Destiny, try some other goal so you can just have fun with it. You can always come back. That's not my mentality to take a break. It would only eat at me if I put the game away for a week or two. Unfinished business, you know? I can't operate like that. My frustration isn't with the actual 'playing'....that has been fun. Especially now that i have backed off the crucible and have been raiding more. The frustration has been with the being shut out now 7.5x in a row, and the thought that this may continue, screwing me over and leaving me behind others. In my mind, I need this gear to keep having fun down the road. You would go for weeks without an item (no weapon no materials) when a normal raid season started. Your fear of being left behind is pure assumption and another raid could totally get you to 30. Stop caring so much about the loot and more on the time spent with friends. |
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Dumien
True Bro
Black Market Trader
No engrams. Only disappointment.
Posts: 3,292
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Post by Dumien on Nov 1, 2014 1:17:33 GMT -5
Also we need to get hard raids going shortly if you guys want raid helmets... if you dont get raid helmets you are forced to have an exotic helmet...not very good for warlocks.
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