DLC Spoiler Thread

[iw5000]

Dec 17, 2014 0:36:43 GMT -5 iw5000 said:

Dec 17, 2014 0:33:41 GMT -5 hebbnh said:

No there's just the one there. We got to the 2nd chest with the characters we cheesed the bridge with and just swapped our other charcters in to grab it as well. That seemed easier and more efficient than trying to speed run the shrieker/thrall hallway two more times on the other characters.

oh ok, no worries.

To help other people, here's a better video

1. Tried to show more of the lamp-boost route. Where to run and where to plant your grenade for cover. Drop it where I do, it effectively blockades all the thrall, and then gives you plenty of time to get on the launch rock. The clip also shows the correct foot position. Foot goes 12" behind the the crack on the floor.

2. What rock to stand on when shooting the ogre. You can get on this rock, while at darkness x 10. No big jump needed. This is key, in the event you goof up somewhere and trigger the thrall. If you are NOT on the rock, (after triggering the bridge to form), the thrall will swarm you. Get on the rock, off the ground, they go away. Key point to remember.

3. The big jump on the 2nd part, the Bridge. This is the trickiest jump to make on this cheat. The video shows where to land, but the key is to ever so slightly arc leftward while in the air, almost aiming for the left wall that is jutting out before you land.

for witty

[Dumien]

So today I had the pleasure of taking some of my lower level friends through the first two drops using some fun lamp launching combined with some sick Helm of Saint 14 titan punching action. For the second part I decided not to do the (admittedly cool) warlock jump cheese, but instead be a badass sword dancing titan and fight ALL THE THINGS.

The only missing part in terms of video is killing the first sword breaker. I used two rockets + a sticky grenade + 4 staggering shots from my shotgun. These links are me practicing before the drop ferries.

[hebbnh]

Nice vids! That reminds me -- I thought had a hilarious vid of me Death from Above fisting Phogoth in the face at the end of the Nightfall yesterday, and the damn thing didn't record right. I got 29 seconds of me dodging and going to the menu screen to make sure it was set up right, and then it cut off 2 seconds before I actually launched the super. Fucking piece of shit!

[wittyscorpion]

FYI: Bungie said the following in their tweets:

If you are playing Crota's End, we are watching. And, we're thinking about Hard Mode!

It sounds to me that the design of hard mode is not set in stone yet, and info they collected from how we play normal will alter how hard mode is presented in significant way.

[wittyscorpion]

Dec 16, 2014 18:19:47 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

Also, Nechrochasm explained: planetdestiny.com/evolving-murmur-necrochasm/, and the mystery around Husk of the Pit analyzed (starting point to get to Necrochasm): planetdestiny.com/husk-of-the-pit/

I have acquired "Husk of Pit", somehow: xboxclips.com/WittyScorpion72/2674dd5a-57e4-4440-9132-da3f3d19e3bc

What did I do? I went on some patrol missions, killed Blades of Crota a few times, went back to the Tower, got summoned by the postmaster, and to my pleasant surprise the weapon is there. I never thought that I would be this happy to see a white weapon

Now I have more incentive to grind Eris ranks! need to hit rank 3 to turn this white piece of crap into a legendary with a cool name: Eidolon Ally. It can then turn into Nechrochasm with the "Crust of Crota", a material only dropped by CsE hard.

Weapon progression: Hust of Pit -> Eidolon Ally -> Nechrochasm

[hebbnh]

The entire raid has now been soloed. Level 32 required for the final phase.

[iw5000]

I think his path on the 1st phase is the hard way. Lamp post launch is much easier. And on the 2nd phase (Bridge), that isis made to difficult too. It's 10x easier just jumping the ledges and then sniping the enemies on the other side. No reason to do what he did.

I briefly messed around the 3rd phase solo, ...never occurred to me to jump on the pillars to shoot out the 2nd shrieker (I have killed the first). That looked easy and I'll have to give it a try. The problem is there is no loot at the end of this phase, so no real incentive now.

The 4th phase. It looks like what he did, it may require a Hunter and it's invisibility perk. I'm not sure if a non-invisible character could get around the map like that, trigger the Wizards to come out, and not have all the Knights also triggered. Thoughts?

[hebbnh]

I'm not really sure on the 4th phase, at least doing it legitimately (if you can call soloing a 6-man event legitimate lol) like this guy did. I think the wizards would be doable, but having to get back into those rooms to kill the shriekers would be tough with so many enemies to dodge around. Titan bubble could help. Warlock self-rez might not do enough for you though. If nothing else, this section can be cheesed by all 3 classes as far as I know, if you have to go that route.

[iw5000]

Dec 18, 2014 11:05:45 GMT -5 hebbnh said:

I'm not really sure on the 4th phase, at least doing it legitimately (if you can call soloing a 6-man event legitimate lol) like this guy did. I think the wizards would be doable, but having to get back into those rooms to kill the shriekers would be tough with so many enemies to dodge around. Titan bubble could help. Warlock self-rez might not do enough for you though. If nothing else, this section can be cheesed by all 3 classes as far as I know, if you have to go that route.

I thought what he did in the 4th phase was very legit. He used invisibility to the max, to 1) trigger out the wizards, 2) avoid a massive spawning of knights and enemies, and 3) then sneak past those that did spawn, to sneak in for killshots on the Shriekers. There's no way a Warlock or Titan could replicate that result. Is there?


That's all also completely legit too imho. He's not using boundaries of the map (2nd phase) or quirks in the mechanics (lamp launch) to trick the enemies spawns. He's using the invisibility mechanic, which was put into the game.

I really can't believe Bungie didn't do this by design. If they were caught off guard by all of these things, they have some really dumb testers.

[hebbnh]

A Titan or Warlock might be able to take out one side entirely first, then trigger and kill the wizard on the other side. After that they'd probably have to lure all the knights and acolytes remaining back to the other side to be able to make a run at the shrieker. That might work. A Titan with Helm of Saint-14 could put a bubble down in one of the doorways to blind the mobs while they take care of the shrieker, go back in the bubble to dodge the shrieker's death blast thing, then have free reign to DPS the Deathsinger. Once she starts the Liturgy of Ruin thing, she just sits in one spot for 30 seconds. If you can hold out long enough, that's more than enough time to kill her. I'll bet you could make it work one way or another, it would just require a little more luck than with a Hunter.

Yeah, I agree with you that's it's totally legitimate, but I'm sure some (read: Bungie) would beg to differ. I'm sure they'll patch some things sooner or later to make solo runs impossible. Then again, maybe this was intended. It gives them an excuse not to implement matchmaking for raids if anyone that wants to can do them solo, provided they're skilled/geared up enough. The lamp launch would've been a ton easier and faster. Bridge sniping is much easier and completely risk free. His method does seem a lot faster than sniping though. Of course, he could have gotten across the gap without even bothering to build the bridge if he wanted to -- it's not that hard. I think doing everything legitimately was the whole point.

[iw5000]

Looking at his times, it might have been faster. He did stage 1 in 9:00 min, and then did stage two in 5:00 min. 14 min in all.

I sort of timed my 3rd character's run, it was somewhere between 15 to 20 min. But I think if I tried to go fast, I might be able to get it to below 15 min.

[mannon]

Let the CsE solo speedrunning begin! ;3

[wittyscorpion]

I haven't had time to study the raid solo strategies you guys put out here yet, Weekly/Nightfall/Eris ranking up are taking higher priority, and after that I'll grind IB first. Most likely will have time to try this out on Sunday.

Question: to solo the first 2 parts, which class should I start first? I assume Warlock?

[thebb22]

I actually found the first part to be easiest with the Titan. Stand on a rock and throw up your bubble while the ogre shoots at you at the end. The bridge will be built by the time your bubble runs out. From there it's just a dead sprint.
As for part two, the Warlock is easiest to get to the sniper perch, but that can be done with a Titan as well.

[iw5000]

I spent many times doing with my first character, to test out all the nuances and stuff. Then did it straight through with the 2nd and 3rd. IMHO, the Ogre is the easiest part of Phase 1. Just get on that rock I have shown in my video, look towards the lamp post off in the distance...and then fire at the Ogre when he appears. Two rocket shots will weaken him a lot, a third will finish (or a few sniper shots). There really is no reason at all that the Ogre should even fire back. He shouldn't have time. Watch my video. He goes down fast. I saw that on at least five test examples. The only reason the Ogre will get a shot off, is IF you misfire on at least three to four rockets.

Remember to resist the urge to jump off the rock IF the Ogre does fire back. You go off that rock, the Thrall will be on you within 5 to 10 seconds.

I would say Hunter is the easiest on Phase 1....but that said, once you get the lamp launch timing down, it doesn't matter what you use. It's easy. If I worked at bungie, was part of the team that designed that part of the Raid, I would be pissed off at how easy people are soloing it.

[wittyscorpion]

Dec 18, 2014 14:08:14 GMT -5 iw5000 said:

I spent many times doing with my first character, to test out all the nuances and stuff. Then did it straight through with the 2nd and 3rd. IMHO, the Ogre is the easiest part of Phase 1. Just get on that rock I have shown in my video, look towards the lamp post off in the distance...and then fire at the Ogre when he appears. Two rocket shots will weaken him a lot, a third will finish (or a few sniper shots). There really is no reason at all that the Ogre should even fire back. He shouldn't have time. Watch my video. He goes down fast. I saw that on at least five test examples. The only reason the Ogre will get a shot off, is IF you misfire on at least three to four rockets.

Remember to resist the urge to jump off the rock IF the Ogre does fire back. You go off that rock, the Thrall will be on you within 5 to 10 seconds.

I would say Hunter is the easiest on Phase 1....but that said, once you get the lamp launch timing down, it doesn't matter what you use. It's easy. If I worked at bungie, was part of the team that designed that part of the Raid, I would be pissed off at how easy people are soloing it.

As I mentioned earlier: Bungie is watching how players are doing CsE on normal, taking notes and incorporate them into hard mode design. It is a smart move to have hard launch a month after normal: they will see many interesting exploits they want to patch so they can make hard truly "hard".

I don't think that raid designers care that much about how fast players beat normal, and whether it can be done solo or not. From their point of view, it is like "undressed" rehearsal of hard , bride can do it alone, groom does not need to show up. The hard mode however, is a "pride" thing and I am sure that they don't like they way how VoG got cheesed. For CsE they definitely want to be better prepared.

[hebbnh]

Witty, your post got me thinking about what they might do to make hard mode, well, hard. On phase 1, obviously lamp launching has to go. I could also see them forcing someone, or multiple people possibly, to stand on the plate the whole time to activate the bridge. That prevents one person from jumping up on a rock, sniping the ogre, and just standing there doing nothing while the bridge builds. Those changes at least seem logical, but they wouldn't prevent a Hunter from staying invisible the whole time, and they also wouldn't prevent a Titan with Saint-14 from bubble-blinding the plate area, similar to the video Dumien posted in another thread. I'm not sure what else they could do. Maybe make it so if one person goes down, the whole team wipes, similar to the Gorgon's Maze? That'd certainly be a challenge!

For phase 2, I can't come up with much. Maybe force having all 6 players cross the gap before the ogres will spawn in? What happens if somebody goes down on the starting side and can't be revived? Insta-wipe? That seems like a bit much. Maybe 3 or 4 players have to get across? Add a debuff called "bane of the bridgeless" so you can't cross without at least forming the bridge? That makes it a little harder I guess, but we've already seen that can be done solo.

[wittyscorpion]

Dec 18, 2014 15:56:09 GMT -5 hebbnh said:

Witty, your post got me thinking about what they might do to make hard mode, well, hard. On phase 1, obviously lamp launching has to go. I could also see them forcing someone, or multiple people possibly, to stand on the plate the whole time to activate the bridge. That prevents one person from jumping up on a rock, sniping the ogre, and just standing there doing nothing while the bridge builds. Those changes at least seem logical, but they wouldn't prevent a Hunter from staying invisible the whole time, and they also wouldn't prevent a Titan with Saint-14 from bubble-blinding the plate area, similar to the video Dumien posted in another thread. I'm not sure what else they could do. Maybe make it so if one person goes down, the whole team wipes, similar to the Gorgon's Maze? That'd certainly be a challenge!

For phase 2, I can't come up with much. Maybe force having all 6 players cross the gap before the ogres will spawn in? What happens if somebody goes down on the starting side and can't be revived? Insta-wipe? That seems like a bit much. Maybe 3 or 4 players have to get across? Add a debuff called "bane of the bridgeless" so you can't cross without at least forming the bridge? That makes it a little harder I guess, but we've already seen that can be done solo.

I'll let game developing professionals handle patching exploits, and community exploit artists to invent more creative exploits afterwards

Below are to entertain myself:

1) For the first part, they can do the following:

a) remove lamp post launch;
b) add more enemies to the bridge building phase in a way that requires a lot of fire power to complete;
c) add a debuff to disable special abilities on the plate;

For phase 2: the easiest way is to mark zones on the beginning side of the bridge as restricted (so upon reaching them players must turn back within 4 second count down). The more correct fix is probably not to spawn orges until the right conditions are met.

IMHO: they can just keep the phase 1 soloable after removing lamp post launch, by leaving it as a fun and challenging solo activity, at least for normal. They should focus on fixing phase 2 to make it work as intended.

Also, I am pretty sure that they will add things that don't exist in normal to make our life much more difficult, similar to how they added "detainment shield" to VoG hard.