wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jun 4, 2015 12:39:36 GMT -5
Great, thanks to all for the detailed explanations.
The IB bonus is nice. Could not sleep last night due to jet lag so I pushed one of my characters to rank "2.25" with 3 completed IB bounties yet to be turned in. With this guy reaching level 3 to carry his brothers, along with buff becoming more and more effective deeper into the weekly cycle, as well as 2 characters can get benefit more from bounties (since each character have its own bounty track): getting the other 2 to level 3 will take much less time, expect it to be 1/3 or even less than the first for the 2 combined. If I have time I'll rinse and repeat on level 5.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jun 4, 2015 13:16:36 GMT -5
Yeah that's my plan do, but only for two characters since my titan is only level 2. ;3
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jun 4, 2015 13:28:33 GMT -5
For people who are interested in the maths... from reddit
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Jun 5, 2015 3:40:21 GMT -5
Yeah. With armor cores there's just not much point in transferring them since he only sells the one armor item per week. You could transfer then hold the core until the next week to buy a different piece, but then you could just run PoE for that core. Well, my hunter was 34 pretty early (using EL), but the others were not. So when I ran PoE first time with my hunter, I transferred the core to my titan. To get him to lvl up, to make PoE easier on that character. edit: especially if you have a low lvl character like you mannon, this might actually be a great idea. Get your current character up via exotic + EL, because you already have good legendaries there, and give all armour cores to the alts. They could go from blue armour to 42 light armour in a blink. Without even needing any class materials...
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jun 5, 2015 7:25:06 GMT -5
I'm probably going the other way since my main has already spent two AC's to get me up to 33. (First AC was chest but my PvP preferred exotic gear is generally chest so I needed the helmet this week to get those PvP loadouts to 33.)
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 5, 2015 7:43:10 GMT -5
For people who are interested in the maths... from reddit I hope to try this out maybe tonight or tomorrow morning. I played an hour or two last night with my Titan. Go all the bounties done with the buff (even the 10 kill in a row) Got him about 900xp into level 2...so only 1,500 points away from level three (@2,400). So I did about 2,800 pts last night. I'll easily hit level 3 the next session that I play. So if what you are saying is correct, my next Character I use...will only need around 1,900 rep? If so, seeing I got around 2,800 last night, 2nd character should be pretty easy to hit in one session.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jun 5, 2015 8:01:39 GMT -5
I did some math-based planning thanks to this handy IB calculator thing somebody linked on reddit. www.ironbanner.info/Theoretically, playing 10 matches on character 1 today and completing all the bounties, I should hit rank 2 plus be 842 rep towards rank 3. Playing 10 more matches tomorrow under the same conditions, I should hit rank 3 and be 891 rep towards rank 4. At that point both alternate characters should only need 8 matches each with all bounties completed to hit rank 3 plus 814 rep. Sunday I should need 18 matches plus all bounties on character 1 to hit rank 5, and then the alts should only need 6 matches apiece with bounties to get to rank 5. I think it's something like 12 hours total spread across 3 days, which isn't too bad considering I have no other plans whatsoever this weekend. If you're only looking to hit rank 3 on 3 characters you can cut that time almost in half. I think this more or less validates your thought process, IW5K. Once your main hits a certain rank, it's really easy to get your alts there too. That new "catch up" buff is really great!
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Jun 5, 2015 8:31:21 GMT -5
Don't forget that the buff doesnt work for the same lvl. So if your alt is lvl 3,9999 you wont get any bonus from the moment your character got to 3.00000
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jun 5, 2015 8:42:08 GMT -5
Don't forget that the buff doesnt work for the same lvl. So if your alt is lvl 3,9999 you wont get any bonus from the moment your character got to 3.00000 I'm just going by what the calculator says. I'm assuming their numbers are correct, but who knows. If they're off slightly it still wouldn't make much of a difference, maybe a couple extra matches on alts is all.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jun 5, 2015 8:43:25 GMT -5
I hit rank 2 last night though I only made it about 900 XP into it. I think I'll hit rank 3 tonight assuming I have enough playtime. Games did go better than the other night with Hawk where I stunk up the place. Better sleep definitely helps. I don't think things went as well as I hoped, but then I was trying something new for me... figured I'd try using claws and going melee/shotgun. I'm honestly finding shotgun very difficult to be consistent with. I guess it really only works with blink, which is somewhat unfortunate since I prefer sunsinger. But then mixing it up isn't so bad and I was enjoying nova bombing when I was working on Thorn bounty. Radiance is still a pretty cool guy, though.
I'm also not having much luck with my grenades. I dunno why exactly. They used to seem so powerful, but now I whiff more than half of them. I think I got in bad habits with fire and forget axiom bolts. Firebold do somewhat the same thing, but require a bit more nuance to ensure a line of sight from the grenade impact to the target. I sort of feel like playing Voidwalker has damaged my Sunsinger PvP play. heh heh I've been trying to use firebolts more to use them as a tool to win gunfights, but that's not working out really well. Basically it takes so long to throw a grenade it's only worth doing if behind cover. Unless you like post mortems. Otherwise just better off shooting.
I need to experiment more. I haven't used my vestyian dynasty in IB yet either. I kinda want to try that. It seems pretty strong in PvE and I've heard sidearms are decent in PvP. Mebbe tonight, despite the shotgun bounty I picked up. ;3
At rank 3 maybe I'll drop the EL to my Hunter to get them up to 32 and then hit the IB on them. I may try to take my Warlock to rank 5 later this weekend as well, but I haven't even started my Hunter. Too much else to do with NF, PoE, Weeklies, Exotic bounties, ect... heh It's all eating into my IB time and I've barely completed any bounties, but that's okay. I'm not complaining, more like grateful to have the problem of having too many things to do. heh
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jun 5, 2015 8:50:25 GMT -5
The calculator should be right. Really it only matters that you have one front runner at a time and don't work the highest rank with multiple characters at the same time, or else you're robbing them of XP bonus. In other words get char A to 3 then B to 3. At this point it doesn't matter which one you pick to get to 4, just that you stick with it until you hit 4 as neither character will get rep bonus if they are the same rank.
Hmm... Considering this if getting my Hunter to 3 goes well it may be worth going to 5 on them instead of my Warlock, because the Warlock already has armor. My Hunter also needs the IB armor piece so they can get all the rep bonuses.
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 8, 2015 9:59:25 GMT -5
I did some math-based planning thanks to this handy IB calculator thing somebody linked on reddit. www.ironbanner.info/Theoretically, playing 10 matches on character 1 today and completing all the bounties, I should hit rank 2 plus be 842 rep towards rank 3. Playing 10 more matches tomorrow under the same conditions, I should hit rank 3 and be 891 rep towards rank 4. At that point both alternate characters should only need 8 matches each with all bounties completed to hit rank 3 plus 814 rep. Sunday I should need 18 matches plus all bounties on character 1 to hit rank 5, and then the alts should only need 6 matches apiece with bounties to get to rank 5. I think it's something like 12 hours total spread across 3 days, which isn't too bad considering I have no other plans whatsoever this weekend. If you're only looking to hit rank 3 on 3 characters you can cut that time almost in half. I think this more or less validates your thought process, IW5K. Once your main hits a certain rank, it's really easy to get your alts there too. That new "catch up" buff is really great! yes. It was pretty easy. My results I guess kind of verify that. I did both my Hunter and Warlock last night. Both of them are now Level 3, and a couple hundred points towards level 4. Started around 6pm ET, hour break for dinner, and then quit to watch GoT for 90 min...and then wrapped up at midnight. So, doing the math, I am going to say maybe ...maybe 90 minutes to 2 hours per character? Just a guess. At 10/15 min per game, that's like 9 to 10 games per character. It was pretty easy. I didn't complete all the bounties. I will say this. I had fun playing with people a few days ago. Solo last night? The actual gaming enjoyment of playing all the above games solo kind of sucks though. No surprise here with my thoughts (so bootlickers, stop reading)...Iron Banner experience still blows. Most people not capping flags. Uneven connection. To many d-bags doing nothing but working on 10-kill bounties and other non-objective playing goals. Lots of people quitting. The game not always giving a full team until a min or two in. I watched my Warlock get disconnected/logged out of the servers twice, in games I was winning (30 min of lost time). I'll also add this. Saw this on my Hunter and Warlock. Level difference DOES matter. I could count DOZENS of examples where I shot or grenaded someone, and watched them have a sliver of health life, and then kill me. Being two levels below (I was at 32) did make a difference. It easily cost me 3 to 4 kills per game. EASILY. And again, as I have pointed out to many times to count, I find this completely stupid. Bungie giving in to a bunch of whiners who feel that because they have logged more hours on this game, they deserve to get better results when playing IB. I find this very typical of today's "Everyone get a Trophy" mentality. But I now have three characters to level 33, so I guess that's good. The pain was minimal. Have to now decide whether i'll play tonight, and push for more Etheric Light at IB level 5 on each character. One should be doable, two characters is possible I suppose. Not sure about three.
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bradman
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Post by bradman on Jun 8, 2015 10:30:36 GMT -5
Was there a question that level matters in IB? I assumed it always did.
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Post by beavenge on Jun 8, 2015 10:37:34 GMT -5
This time around it seemed like there were a lot of people running max armor builds, leading to many Tripmine sticks that did not earn a kill (the Ram FTW). Probably due to the Trials of Thorn, though it's nice to see some change in the meta.
losing gun fights because of level difference / time played definitely sucks, though that's more of "catering to the hardcore" than the Oprah rewards program. The first week of HoW, Hebbnh Thebb and I did Trials as 32s/33s and went 9-2, and I'd assume they'd keep the level ramping similiar between Trials and IB (unless I missed that somewhere). I'd say the Iron Medallion for a loss is the door prize, but a smart move on Bungie's part cause that stopped most of the failbears GG'ing after 1-2 minutes. Quitting is definitely still an issue. Doing IB as a 32 hurt, 33 was definitely better, and 34 was great. It honestly doesn't take that much time to get to 34, though.
Personally, I feel that PoE and ToO are a higher priority than IB since both PoE and ToO give you Etheric light, a chance to obtain/buy MAX (not IB gear you have to spend Etheric light on that also doesn't have Heavy Ammo for Boots) light level gear, and seem to take less time than grinding out the IB with 3 characters. I didn't get much time with the catchup buff, though. Something about no AC and the room I game in being a balmy 86 F without the 46" TV, console, and PC on.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jun 8, 2015 11:00:05 GMT -5
Yes, higher level and attack values have always mattered in Iron Banner and have always been advertised as such. It is literally the reason Iron Banner exists and is a limited time event. For level and attack normalized PvP there is Crucible which is available 24/7.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jun 8, 2015 11:02:25 GMT -5
FWIW, Bungie tweeted out something regarding the new level advantage stuff in PvP. Some of the comments below the graphs explain things a bit more. TL;DR: There's really not much level difference at all except in a few very specific circumstances. I ran as either a 32 or 33 the entire time, and only thing I really noticed was that shoulder charging a level 34 enemy as a 32 Titan wasn't an insta-kill. Otherwise, grenades and melees did slightly less damage, and that's about it. I'm inclined to agree with Beavenge, in that you're probably seeing a lot more people running max armor builds (worth an extra 9-11 health points depending on class), and a lot of people are actually paying attention to what builds and guns they're running thanks to Trials where that stuff is pretty important. Trials has expanded the knowledge of the general playerbase quite a bit, I think.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jun 8, 2015 11:26:48 GMT -5
I noticed a few sticks that didn't kill and a couple of players that needed an extra hit or burst. A good number of those were Rams, many others were titans. The only hunters that were hard to kill were mid super blade dancers which kill me 19 out of 20 times no matter what I do. I don't know how they do that. I always die instantly when I super. That or I can't even get to an enemy before it runs out. Good times.
Seems like a lot of teams are splitting up on heavy ammo. We'll get like 2 enemies at our heavy and even though there's 4 of us they slow us down dealing with them. As soon as they're dead and we're picking it up we take a rocket up the arse. Actually getting heavy ammo and being able to use it feels much more difficult lately, probably due to more educated players via trials and improved Crucible.
The shotgunners are real, and I don't know how they pull off their voodoo, because that shiz don't work for me. Maybe I just need to be a titan then shotgun opens up... I don't know. As is about about my best outcome is when I run around then me and somebody trade kills with our shotguns. Rarely... I'll actually get a kill and live...
The Lag is real too. I never really had much trouble with lag but this time around there was quite a bit. Players taking little or no damage, then me dying, players running in a strait line taking no damage then disappearing. Stuff... I still enjoyed some of this Iron Banner, but not as much as in the past and on my hunter it was actually painful...
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jun 8, 2015 11:39:12 GMT -5
The shotgunners are real, and I don't know how they pull off their voodoo, because that shiz don't work for me. Maybe I just need to be a titan then shotgun opens up... I don't know. As is about about my best outcome is when I run around then me and somebody trade kills with our shotguns. Rarely... I'll actually get a kill and live... What shotgun are you running, and what perks does it have?
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 8, 2015 11:40:49 GMT -5
This time around it seemed like there were a lot of people running max armor builds, leading to many Tripmine sticks that did not earn a kill (the Ram FTW). Probably due to the Trials of Thorn, though it's nice to see some change in the meta. losing gun fights because of level difference / time played definitely sucks, though that's more of "catering to the Touch Football" than the Oprah rewards program. The first week of HoW, Hebbnh Thebb and I did Trials as 32s/33s and went 9-2, and I'd assume they'd keep the level ramping similiar between Trials and IB (unless I missed that somewhere). I'd say the Iron Medallion for a loss is the door prize, but a smart move on Bungie's part cause that stopped most of the failbears GG'ing after 1-2 minutes. Quitting is definitely still an issue. Doing IB as a 32 hurt, 33 was definitely better, and 34 was great. It honestly doesn't take that much time to get to 34, though. Personally, I feel that PoE and ToO are a higher priority than IB since both PoE and ToO give you Etheric light, a chance to obtain/buy MAX (not IB gear you have to spend Etheric light on that also doesn't have Heavy Ammo for Boots) light level gear, and seem to take less time than grinding out the IB with 3 characters. I didn't get much time with the catchup buff, though. Something about no AC and the room I game in being a balmy 86 F without the 46" TV, console, and PC on. To be fair...if a person hasn't had time to group up with people...it's almost impossible to get to level 34. That's me. My playtime has been real spotty due to life stuff going on. I can't do ToO and PoE solo. So I can't get the shit needed to get to level 34 then.
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 8, 2015 11:44:14 GMT -5
There's really not much level difference at all except in a few very specific circumstances. I ran as either a 32 or 33 the entire time, and only thing I really noticed was that shoulder charging a level 34 enemy as a 32 Titan wasn't an insta-kill. Otherwise, grenades and melees did slightly less damage, and that's about it. I'm inclined to agree with Beavenge, in that you're probably seeing a lot more people running max armor builds (worth an extra 9-11 health points depending on class), and a lot of people are actually paying attention to what builds and guns they're running thanks to Trials where that stuff is pretty important. Trials has expanded the knowledge of the general playerbase quite a bit, I think. from my end again... I just know I have seen A LOT of situations where I have been weakening opponents down to their last little bit of health, but not killing them. I am assuming they would be dead, or at least under prior conditions. But from the looks of your chart, ...the level difference wouldn't explain what I saw last night. Perhaps it is armor differences.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jun 8, 2015 11:46:58 GMT -5
Swapped between Felwnter's Lie and a Matador. I'd have to look at the perks to remember them all. Fel has range for aiming Mat has tighter spread for aiming, and both have other assorted perks and some range modifiers. Still a pain in the ass. And frankly... not as easy to hit people with as you'd think. Problem is you really have zero time to line up a shot once you get in range. You need to already be lined up as you get in range, or else you're dead to their shotgun since other players apparently other players can always hit me whether I slide, juke, jump, or even if they had no idea I was coming around that corner... it doesn't matter. They will 1HK me immediately, before I get a chance to even line up a shot most of the time. So I rush my shots and fire over their heads half the time, and the other half I'm dead on but die first.
I'm exaggerating, but that's how it feels. I think I'm gonna have to play regular Crucible shotgun only just to practice.
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 8, 2015 11:51:28 GMT -5
If I have ammo, I pretty much only use the shotgun. Run around the map and play to that weapon. It's an instant kill. Hug corners and blast away. Avoid anything beyond 15' or so. Most all of the maps, the ammo crate drop allow me to do this.
I guess this works. I'm kind of average at Destiny PvP. I probably average around a 1.2 KD, and maybe 13 to 14 kills a game. My biggest weakness is that I tend to lay back kind of often, if we get two flags. I'll wait up to hold the spawns, and this lowers my kill counts. It's ok, I like getting the win and not having to get lower pts is worth it.
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wings
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Post by wings on Jun 8, 2015 15:52:39 GMT -5
To be fair...if a person hasn't had time to group up with people...it's almost impossible to get to level 34. That's me. My playtime has been real spotty due to life stuff going on. I can't do ToO and PoE solo. So I can't get the shit needed to get to level 34 then. I'll play Trials with you. It's better to play with people on your friend's list than LFG due to one no-show basically stops the event from taking place. FWIW, Bungie tweeted out something regarding the new level advantage stuff in PvP. Some of the comments below the graphs explain things a bit more. TL;DR: There's really not much level difference at all except in a few very specific circumstances. I ran as either a 32 or 33 the entire time, and only thing I really noticed was that shoulder charging a level 34 enemy as a 32 Titan wasn't an insta-kill. Otherwise, grenades and melees did slightly less damage, and that's about it. I'm inclined to agree with Beavenge, in that you're probably seeing a lot more people running max armor builds (worth an extra 9-11 health points depending on class), and a lot of people are actually paying attention to what builds and guns they're running thanks to Trials where that stuff is pretty important. Trials has expanded the knowledge of the general playerbase quite a bit, I think. Yeah I've seen that happen. It's funny to see hosts on LFG ask for level 34s only for Trials. I mean that would mean me wearing Radiant Dance Machines and PoE gear, which would be inferior to being level 33 and using Achlyophage Symbiote and Iron Banner gear. Level requirement is much more critical in PvE really last I heard. I'd probably bring my Titan down from 34 to 33 to use the Helm of Saint-14 in PoE depending on the circumstances.
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bradman
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Post by bradman on Jun 8, 2015 18:04:31 GMT -5
Welp, that's level 5. Got my EL and bought the Gheleons' with the crazy good roll.
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Post by livingonluck on Jun 9, 2015 7:39:59 GMT -5
I considered doing the same thing since i don't really use my 3rd character; but was going to do it to keep getting the guaranteed queens key/1st time PoE exotic drop over and over.... Just can't convince myself the grind is worth it.... Oh I hadn't thought of that. The story missions are short, so if you can play HoW stories and not bother with the vanilla content then I guess that could be tempting. It takes less time than running Vault of Glass with some of the guys I join, ha. Has it been confirmed that the first exotic chance is guaranteed? I know this is an old question - but I deleted my alt Titan after taking his through the level 28 Prison of Elders and getting an exotic.... Finally got the alt i replaced him with (warlock) to 20 last night. Threw some gear on him to make him 33; crushed the HoW storyline.... Then took him into level 28 Prison of elders.... Got Thunderlord at the queen's chest. So that's 4 for 4 on exotics on first queen's chest for each character... and you can delete your characters and start all over and it'll reset the "guaranteed exotic" ..... I might start doing this weekly...
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 9, 2015 7:41:48 GMT -5
Had all three characters to level 3...and then got one of them to level 5. But that last part was a real slog, taking two to three hours of grinding. I got the EL, but not sure if the cost was worth it. Crappy lag, bad gameplay and just overall shitty IB stuff. Doing that last night, makes me pretty much hate this game right now, and not want to play it lol.
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wings
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Post by wings on Jun 9, 2015 8:14:44 GMT -5
Oh I hadn't thought of that. The story missions are short, so if you can play HoW stories and not bother with the vanilla content then I guess that could be tempting. It takes less time than running Vault of Glass with some of the guys I join, ha. Has it been confirmed that the first exotic chance is guaranteed? I know this is an old question - but I deleted my alt Titan after taking his through the level 28 Prison of Elders and getting an exotic.... Finally got the alt i replaced him with (warlock) to 20 last night. Threw some gear on him to make him 33; crushed the HoW storyline.... Then took him into level 28 Prison of elders.... Got Thunderlord at the queen's chest. So that's 4 for 4 on exotics on first queen's chest for each character... and you can delete your characters and start all over and it'll reset the "guaranteed exotic" ..... I might start doing this weekly... So you do not have to do any of the vanilla story line? I might look into this more but I do like having one of each character and I am only doing it for the Gjallarhorn. I would probably do this in replace of the Raids but I might be after the boots as I deleted some a while back.
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Post by livingonluck on Jun 9, 2015 9:08:29 GMT -5
You have to do the main storyline to unlock the reef, then the HoW storyline to unlock PoE (you don't have to do any of the Dark Below).
It took me a total of 9 hours and 10 minutes to level my character from 1-20, and then to beat HoW expansion. Over time I could probably crunch that down to 6-7 hours as I've learned you can just run through most missions without even killing mobs (until the end boss/mob fight) and that only about 2/3 of the missions are necessary to progress the storyline. Worth it? Guess it depends on how much time you have.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jun 9, 2015 9:44:19 GMT -5
You have to do the main storyline to unlock the reef, then the HoW storyline to unlock PoE (you don't have to do any of the Dark Below). It took me a total of 9 hours and 10 minutes to level my character from 1-20, and then to beat HoW expansion. Over time I could probably crunch that down to 6-7 hours as I've learned you can just run through most missions without even killing mobs (until the end boss/mob fight) and that only about 2/3 of the missions are necessary to progress the storyline. Worth it? Guess it depends on how much time you have. And as I learned, you have to do the 28 to unlock the 32. On all characters. I know, I'm an idjit
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wings
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Post by wings on Jun 9, 2015 11:29:19 GMT -5
You have to do the main storyline to unlock the reef, then the HoW storyline to unlock PoE (you don't have to do any of the Dark Below). It took me a total of 9 hours and 10 minutes to level my character from 1-20, and then to beat HoW expansion. Over time I could probably crunch that down to 6-7 hours as I've learned you can just run through most missions without even killing mobs (until the end boss/mob fight) and that only about 2/3 of the missions are necessary to progress the storyline. Worth it? Guess it depends on how much time you have. Well I guess if I want to get the Stranger's Rifle and the Khvostov back, then would be a time to do it.
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