hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jun 9, 2015 9:22:03 GMT -5
Shotpackage is top tier because there is a range cap. Once you get to that cap the only way to further your OHK range is by shot package. That is why it is tier 1. That is also what that thread states. There are tier 1 perks for every three. Range is actually not splitting hairs, it is really important. If you and your opponent see eachother, the one with the range boost can fire first. The only exception is when you blink very agressively imho. Than ROF/Full Auto MIGHT be more conveniend. I Always loved my found verdict, absolutely raped with it. But with the addition of Fellwinters Lie a few months ago (which I couldn't get) I started to lose ALLOT of shotgun fights, because there is that longer OHK thanks to long range combined with shot package. www.reddit.com/r/CruciblePlaybook/comments/37auty/house_of_wolves_shotgun_reforge_megathread/edit: You will not regret upgrading the VoC. I might actually prefer it over FB!! I think we're on the same page regarding the ideal perkset, qupie. My point is that IW's current roll is about as good as it gets without being perfect, and is certainly still very good. Any rerolls of this setup are much more likely to be worse than to be better, so I think it makes sense to stick with this one until he gets another PC+1/Matador to drop and then roll for perfection on that one if IW is so inclined.
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 9, 2015 9:22:38 GMT -5
If you and your opponent see eachother, the one with the range boost can fire first. Not to split hairs, but out of curiosity... won't the guy with 'snapshot' be the one who fires first? That's what I have on my gun now. ...and heb...yeah, if I get a second one down the road, i'll use that one to mess around re-rolling. But looking at that table/link you gave, there are a lot of options. The odds of getting a perfect roll, seem pretty low.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jun 9, 2015 9:24:54 GMT -5
Snapshot fires first and loses to the guy with rifled/reinforced barrel because rifled/reinforced has higher max range. Outside of that scenario, you're basically even. If you can close that distance without getting killed first, you may even have an advantage since you can aim and fire sooner.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jun 9, 2015 9:28:10 GMT -5
The odds of getting a perfect roll, seem pretty low. They're very low. Heh...don't ask me how many motes I've blown rerolling sniper rifles and rocket launchers and still haven't gotten a roll I'm happy with. At least my Judgment only took 3 tries to hit perfection LOL.
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 9, 2015 9:30:34 GMT -5
Barrell - 1 in 8 Tier 1 - 1 in 8 Tier 2 - 1 in 4 Tier 3 - 1 in 2
doing the above in my head, that seems to be well over 1 in a 100 chance of getting a God roll.
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 9, 2015 9:32:42 GMT -5
Snapshot fires first and loses to the guy with rifled/reinforced barrel because rifled/reinforced has higher max range. Outside of that scenario, you're basically even. If you can close that distance without getting killed first, you may even have an advantage since you can aim and fire sooner. But like you mentioned, how many people will have that God-roll setup? I am going to have to not only come across that situation maybe 1x a game, but then also have that situation be against the person who has that god roll setup. At best, only 1 in 20 people might have it. I'm talking a bit out of my ass here, but it would seem this is something that is only going to affect me one time a night.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jun 9, 2015 9:41:33 GMT -5
That's pretty much the same conclusion I came too, IW. For regular crucible or Iron Banner I doubt it'll ever be an issue. For Trials, I don't know. I make it a habit to inspect people's weapons when flying into a match, and most loadouts are very solid. People that take Trials seriously seem to try to eke out any advantage they can, so I wouldn't be surprised to see more and more god rolls there. Even then, is it going to be that big of a difference? Eh, probably not any more than lag/connection which is totally out of your control already.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jun 9, 2015 9:43:15 GMT -5
For those who have a 4th horseman.... sorry Xbros....
I have been sacrificing range on it, for the sake of reload speed. Is that a decent strategy? I've been doing well with it (slide up to wolf target, unload a clip, jump away, reload in air, repeat until dead)
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 9, 2015 9:44:58 GMT -5
That's pretty much the same conclusion I came too, IW. For regular crucible or Iron Banner I doubt it'll ever be an issue. For Trials, I don't know. I make it a habit to inspect people's weapons when flying into a match, and most loadouts are very solid. People that take Trials seriously seem to try to eke out any advantage they can, so I wouldn't be surprised to see more and more god rolls there. Even then, is it going to be that big of a difference? Eh, probably not any more than lag/connection which is totally out of your control already. Speaking of lag. I was playing games last night, where the action seemed to be 1 to 2 seconds behind. It was ridiculous. God awful. I also came across some new glitch people are doing. Where they force themselves into walls and are immune. Have you seen this? I saw this about a dozen times last night. Not sure what the point is, but I couldn't kill them.
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Post by livingonluck on Jun 9, 2015 9:46:38 GMT -5
I think only Judgement VI is crucial to get range bonus because it's already about a meter behind the other 3.
If my memory serves me - the range cap is 40, and my estimation is that about every 10 points of range beyond what the weapon defaults with increases the effectiveness by about a meter. So all this talk is about 1-1.5 extra meters. Certainly worth it if all you're sacrificing is stability. But shouldn't totally drive you crazy if you're happy with the other perks.
Another one will drop soon enough and you can try again on it rather than mess up an "A" roll trying to get "A+".
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jun 9, 2015 10:02:33 GMT -5
Barrell - 1 in 8 Tier 1 - 1 in 8 Tier 2 - 1 in 4 Tier 3 - 1 in 2 doing the above in my head, that seems to be well over 1 in a 100 chance of getting a God roll. Not quite, as the barrel mods have preset places they can roll on the perk tree. You're always going to get either aggressive or soft ballistics as they're the only two choices for that node, for example. The same is true for reinforced/rifled barrel (and smallbore, which increases range but reduces mag size so it may not be as good as those two depending on your preferences). So, if you're rolling strictly for the god roll of aggressive + shot package + reinforced/rifled + LITC/KP/FR/AO1, it's: Aggressive: 1 in 2 Shot Pack: 1 in 8 Rein/Rifled: 2 in 4 LITC/KP/FR/AO1: 4 in 8 I get 1 in 64 out of that. If you open that up to include smallbore, it's 1 in ~43.
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 9, 2015 10:13:56 GMT -5
1 in 43 doesn't sound horrible then.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jun 9, 2015 10:14:45 GMT -5
My Judgment VI god roll (field choke/accurized ballistics + full auto + smallbore + LITC, specifically, with no exceptions) was significantly more unlikely than that -- 1 in 384, actually. It'll have less range and impact than the Felwinter's archtype, but with a much higher fire rate and a 1/3 chance for a massively damage-boosted shot (2/3 chance on double taps which will probably be my modus operandi). It should work extremely well with my Bladedancer set up with blink and max agility to get inside the Felwinter's archtype 1SK range advantage and then punish them with my fire rate and DPS advantage. That's the theory, anyway, LOL.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Jun 9, 2015 10:41:31 GMT -5
I think a shotgun on range cap without any other perks actually outclassed a shotgun with shot package which is not on the range cap. In IB it might not change things that much, but in ToO it certainly will.
Range certainly makes a bigger difference than 331 vs 365 in any pvp game
Your shotgun is okish, but please don't spend your EL there. That is what I am trying to say
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 9, 2015 13:34:23 GMT -5
I think a shotgun on range cap without any other perks actually outclassed a shotgun with shot package which is not on the range cap. In IB it might not change things that much, but in ToO it certainly will. Range certainly makes a bigger difference than 331 vs 365 in any pvp game Your shotgun is okish, but please don't spend your EL there. That is what I am trying to say I'm doing the VoC. thanks
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jun 9, 2015 13:49:27 GMT -5
It does make a certain amount of sense to save EL for perfect reforges when possible, since reforging an ascended weapon results in a loss of the EL used to ascend it.
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 9, 2015 20:29:00 GMT -5
Agree.
I ended up doing the VoC and just used it on a Weekly (lv32) a bit ago. The VoC just destroyed wizards and the weekly, getting it done in like 17 minutes or so.
Ultimately, i think one does get the biggest bang for their buck with these older weapons, as going from 300 to 367 is a huge boost in firepower, rather than 337 to 367 (my numbers might be off). The VoC is also just a great primary to boost up too. It's a scout rifle, with full auto, huge clip that never runs out of ammo and elemental damage (solar). Great combo there. And Wizards tend to be more annoying than knights, as they fly around.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jun 9, 2015 22:33:20 GMT -5
Wait, was there any question about the first two legendary weapons you should ascend? I assumed it went without saying that once you reach level 34, your next 2 etheric light should be spent on VoC and Fatebringer.
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Jun 10, 2015 0:08:32 GMT -5
I finally amassed 4 EL (thanks Hebb and Hebb for the 15 second carry on Nightfall).
Leveled up to 34 and boosted VoC. No regrets. Fatebringer is next. Then Hunger of Crota. I suppose then Blackhammer if anyone ever helps get me one...
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 10, 2015 7:40:55 GMT -5
Wait, was there any question about the first two legendary weapons you should ascend? I assumed it went without saying that once you reach level 34, your next 2 etheric light should be spent on VoC and Fatebringer. I was considering the BlackHammer a tiny bit. As well as the Hunger of Crota. I use those both a ton when trying to finish bosses. Having another +10-15% kick in damage would certainly be something I would benefit from, all the time. When doing solo stuff, both of those above weapons come in much more handy than the VoC.
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 10, 2015 7:41:41 GMT -5
I finally amassed 4 EL (thanks Hebb and Hebb for the 15 second carry on Nightfall). Leveled up to 34 and boosted VoC. No regrets. Fatebringer is next. Then Hunger of Crota. I suppose then Blackhammer if anyone ever helps get me one... I will help Mal. I still like doing Crota, and with extra damage stuff now...even the two of us should be able to waltz right through and finish him now.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jun 10, 2015 8:21:31 GMT -5
I'd be happy to help on some Crota runs as well -- Vault of Glass too if anyone wants to do that (provided we ever get 5 or 6 people on at the same time again, anyway). I don't really need anything from Crota, but maybe I'll luck out and get some armor with more useful rolls than some of the gear I have now. If not I can convert those radiant mats to motes which I'm kind of short on due to rerolling so many weapons at the Gunsmith.
I went ahead and spent some of my etheric light on Vision, Fatebringer, Found Verdict, and Black Hammer last night. I'd forgotten how ridiculously good the VoG weapons are after not using them for so long.
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 10, 2015 8:37:35 GMT -5
I forgot one can convert Radiant Energy to motes of light. I have close to 200 Radiant Energies. I probably should do something with them.
Where does one convert them?
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jun 10, 2015 8:47:27 GMT -5
The speaker does shard/energy conversions. You'll only see the conversions if you have the required stuff in your inventory.
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 30, 2015 7:48:46 GMT -5
My Judgment VI god roll (field choke/accurized ballistics + full auto + smallbore + LITC, specifically, with no exceptions) was significantly more unlikely than that -- 1 in 384, actually. It'll have less range and impact than the Felwinter's archtype, but with a much higher fire rate and a 1/3 chance for a massively damage-boosted shot (2/3 chance on double taps which will probably be my modus operandi). It should work extremely well with my Bladedancer set up with blink and max agility to get inside the Felwinter's archtype 1SK range advantage and then punish them with my fire rate and DPS advantage. That's the theory, anyway, LOL. Did that ever work out? Doing the above tactics? I can buy the the Judgement from NM. I was curious to see if that was effective, and worth the effort.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Jun 30, 2015 8:13:02 GMT -5
The big drawback from smallbore + full auto is the reserve ammo though. You will get very little ammo per box. I think it is save to assume:
Do you use blink? look for a shotgun with full auto + luck in chamber Don't you use blink? Look for a shotgun with shot package and anything you like as 2nd perk.
Max range is always a big huge ass pre, although quick draw could be nice if you are really close to the range cap (if you really only use shotguns as a last resort, but you should probably get better map knowledge over time so you wont need that)
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jun 30, 2015 8:48:16 GMT -5
My Judgment VI god roll (field choke/accurized ballistics + full auto + smallbore + LITC, specifically, with no exceptions) was significantly more unlikely than that -- 1 in 384, actually. It'll have less range and impact than the Felwinter's archtype, but with a much higher fire rate and a 1/3 chance for a massively damage-boosted shot (2/3 chance on double taps which will probably be my modus operandi). It should work extremely well with my Bladedancer set up with blink and max agility to get inside the Felwinter's archtype 1SK range advantage and then punish them with my fire rate and DPS advantage. That's the theory, anyway, LOL. Did that ever work out? Doing the above tactics? I can buy the the Judgement from NM. I was curious to see if that was effective, and worth the effort. Haven't actually tried it yet, lol. I've been running TLW and Her Benevolence and sniping almost exclusively since I got one to drop from PoE a couple weeks ago. It came with a near-perfect roll right out of the box (shortgaze, hidden hand, snapshot, and unflinching) so I figured I might as well put it to use. On the few occasions where I did run a shotgun, I went with Matador or PC+1 as I god-rolled those too and wanted to see how they performed compared to Felwinter's. If you've got the marks to spare and don't need/want anything else (like the Dead Orbit launcher which is already set up perfectly for PvP, armor better suited for PvP, etc), I don't think you can go wrong. You can roll it like I did, or you can shoot for the standard Felwinter's tier roll (aggressive, SP, Rifled, and whatever 4th perk you like) for something which will cap range and have slightly less impact than Felwinter's but double the fire rate, which might be good for 6v6 gametypes. Lots of options on Judgment. I guess something like that might be too similar to what you already have though.
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 30, 2015 9:17:53 GMT -5
I have tons of marks on all three characters. I'll get the dead orbit launcher.
I guess i will experiment. I was just looking for something to amuse myself with.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jun 30, 2015 14:20:09 GMT -5
After getting all of my 3 characters to 34, I spent my first weapon EL on Black Hammer. Still a big fan of Ice Breaker more than BH, but with Gjallarhorn taking away the exotic slot I do need a 365 dmg weapon at secondary slot. I have only 1 EL left and haven't made up my mind on where to use it yet. Fatebringer and VoC are high on the list, but with decent output from Fang of Ir Yut (which I like more than Fatebrinder due to Third Eye, bigger mag, and big zoom scope to act as a mini sniper rifle in Arc Burn situations) and Abyss Defiant, it's a tough decision for me to spend this last EL , because I may also need to spend it on an armor piece to gain more freedom in loadout configuration. Would have been a no brainer if I can play PoE regularly to earn Armor Core and/or EL...
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Jun 30, 2015 14:35:34 GMT -5
My first two EL weapon upgrades were VoC and Fatebringer. No regrets. VoG weapons are the best.
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