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Post by iw5000 on Jun 30, 2015 15:31:39 GMT -5
I would go VoC Witty. Agree with the others. I still haven't done the Fatebringer though.
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Post by hebbnh on Jun 30, 2015 15:39:50 GMT -5
My first two EL weapon upgrades were VoC and Fatebringer. No regrets. VoG weapons are the best. ^^^ This. I guess the way I'd look at is this, Witty. You know Fatebringer and VoC are two of the best PvE guns in the game, and they're going to stay that way until TTK releases. Even then I'd imagine they'll remain relevant for a good while. On the other hand, if you're ascending armor to hit 34 or give yourself more flexibility, you have to be sure it's dang good armor and not something you're going to replace as soon as you get a new PoE or Trials or whatever piece. Plus, even if it's a great armor piece, you'll probably be able to buy armor that's as good or better on day 1 of TTK from a vendor. That's my thought process, anyway.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jun 30, 2015 15:50:37 GMT -5
Sure. Looks like my next weapon EL will be on VoC. As great as Fatebringer is, Fang of Ir Yut is competitive enough to defer that.
Armor wise: level 34 only matters in PoE-34 / PoE-35 / Trials / IB, and it's not like I am going to play a lot of these before August anyway. Once in August, TTK is only 1 month away which will again render all light 42 armor obsolete.
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wings
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Post by wings on Jun 30, 2015 16:21:56 GMT -5
Sure. Looks like my next weapon EL will be on VoC. As great as Fatebringer is, Fang of Ir Yut is competitive enough to defer that. Oracle Disruptor on VoG guns works on the mines in PoE btw.
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 30, 2015 22:45:18 GMT -5
Fang of If Yut is a pretty good gun too, I would imagine that at 365, is a good move too? Arc primary at 365? A lot of maps have Knights, you can't go wrong I would think, having that and the VoC in your inventory.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jul 1, 2015 1:06:36 GMT -5
Fang has very similar setup as VoC. While it is not full auto, IMHO it is more than made up by Third Eye and much longer effective range. In Arc Burn situations it feels liker a mini Sniper Rifle.
That said, I probably will do Fatebringer before Fang, simply because the bigger delta in damage increase.
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Post by qupie on Jul 1, 2015 5:23:40 GMT -5
Personally I think the fatebringer is not as good as many ppl say it is in high level content. It plainly sucks in lvl 35 imho, and it is only okay at 34. VoC is far easier to use imho. The problem is that allot of opponents are not one shot headshot kills, which reduces the effectiveness of hand cannons greatly imho. Would like your guys oppinions on that matter though.
As for armour, it really doesn't matter in ToO, I have gotten to the lighthouse with lvl 33 several times. It is only a 1% damage reduction! Having good armour perks and high int/dis is far more important imho. So I wouldn't spend the EL on PvP armour. Just roll with lvl 33 if you want some different load out.
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 1, 2015 7:35:33 GMT -5
I mostly agree with the above ^^^ the Fatebringer isn't high on my list of guns to upgrade right now. While the jump from 300 to 365 is good, (more bang for the buck), the problem is if I'm not using it that much, there's not much bang.
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wings
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Post by wings on Jul 1, 2015 8:09:53 GMT -5
Personally I think the fatebringer is not as good as many ppl say it is in high level content. It plainly sucks in lvl 35 imho, and it is only okay at 34. VoC is far easier to use imho. The problem is that allot of opponents are not one shot headshot kills, which reduces the effectiveness of hand cannons greatly imho. Would like your guys oppinions on that matter though. As for armour, it really doesn't matter in ToO, I have gotten to the lighthouse with lvl 33 several times. It is only a 1% damage reduction! Having good armour perks and high int/dis is far more important imho. So I wouldn't spend the EL on PvP armour. Just roll with lvl 33 if you want some different load out. And with scout rifles ammo issues will be less of an issue, so no need to go after armour that boosts hand cannon ammo. I'll be using my Fang over Fatebringer when I play 34 PoE today if it's worth using for the Vex small arms round that is. Yeah I used to see a lot of listings on LFG for Trials wanting level 34s only and I'm like "You're going to sacrifice someone being level 33 with a top tier exotic for one level?" Being underlevelled only matters significantly in PvE content. I try to max out my Intellect and Discipline for Vault of Glass because I'm going to need fast cooldowns for relic usage.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jul 6, 2015 13:18:54 GMT -5
Got 3 ELs from this week's IB, and pondering what to Ascend.
I already have Black Hammer and VoC ascended. The next one will be Fatebringer for sure. After that the priority is less clear. Found Verdict is the leading choice so far. Completely undecided on the next: Fang is a great choice, but I want to see if there is another one with 300 damage that is worth upgrading first.
Any suggestions? Maybe Corrective Measure? Although not stellar, it is a solid weapon to have in Void burn situations due to the large mag size and significant better chance to get heavy ammo.
Also, what non-raid legendary weapons are worth ascending, if any?
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wings
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Post by wings on Jul 6, 2015 13:33:20 GMT -5
Also, what non-raid legendary weapons are worth ascending, if any? Pre-HoW Jolder's Hammer, which has Field Scout and Surplus on it.
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 6, 2015 13:56:36 GMT -5
Got 3 ELs from this week's IB, and pondering what to Ascend. I already have Black Hammer and VoC ascended. The next one will be Fatebringer for sure. After that the priority is less clear. Found Verdict is the leading choice so far. Completely undecided on the next: Fang is a great choice, but I want to see if there is another one with 300 damage that is worth upgrading first. Any suggestions? Maybe Corrective Measure? Although not stellar, it is a solid weapon to have in Void burn situations due to the large mag size and significant better chance to get heavy ammo. Also, what non-raid legendary weapons are worth ascending, if any? I ended up leveling up my Party+1 shotgun to 365. It had a God roll set up, so I figured why not. The extra few % couldn't hurt in things like Iron Banner.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jul 6, 2015 14:01:52 GMT -5
That brings up a question I have: how does the damage number work in IB and ToO? Is it worth ascending a weapon for PvP purpose?
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 6, 2015 14:07:13 GMT -5
That brings up a question I have: how does the damage number work in IB and ToO? Is it worth ascending a weapon for PvP purpose? I have no clue. But people are trying to tell me one bullet makes a difference on things like Radiant Skin. If that is true, it makes that much of a difference a couple times a game when you pop a 15 sec super..... ....why wouldn't leveling up a shotgun you use the entire 10 min game, pushing it's damage up 10% not be helpful? This is all dumb anecdotal evidence here, but I saw a lot of one-shot Party+1 NON-kills happen early in the IB week. Point black, no kill. A bit away, no kill. Slightly off-center, no kill. Two or three of these a game. So I leveled it up. It sure seems like I am getting fewer of them now. At most one a game. That seems worthwhile to me. Edit. I have been playing IB at level 33 all week. Most of the above missed shots were against level 34's. While the IB stat-sheet says the one level difference is insignificant (under 0.1%), and I shouldn't notice a difference, I'm not so sure I believe them. If it is say 1 to 2%...then this certainly helped me. Edit 2 - I do want to do my Black Hammer soon. But...it seems like I will get much less benefit and use from doing so. In the above shotgun example, this is something I use every game, in situations that can make a difference between kill/dying. Playing against people. The Black Hammer? 99% of the time I am using this gun, it's far off sniping off some stationary dumb AI monster. That is where the BH best shines. 10% more damage would certainly help there, but will I really even notice it? Probably not. I'm not in any danger of dying, so all this 10% means is me having to shoot say 11 sniper shots rather than 12. Not really any benefit.
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Post by hebbnh on Jul 6, 2015 14:15:14 GMT -5
I'd agree with IW there. On a shotgun you could see some difference in pellets required to kill at 331 vs 365, where being slightly off target at 365 could still net a kill where at 331 wouldn't. It's certainly not going to hurt anything. Don't waste it on a non god-tier roll though.
On a sniper rifle it's probably not as necessary. Headshots are still going to 1SK regardless if it has enough impact to kill through a revive shield. There might be some scenarios where 2 body shots won't kill at 331 vs a radiant skin warlock or something, but since you should be going for headshots anyway it shouldn't make much difference.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jul 6, 2015 14:50:43 GMT -5
If I have more EL than I care about, I would not give a fuss about it. But since for the time being EL is in very short supply for me, I want to prioritize carefully.
I chose BH first because 1) I think damage upgrade is way more important in PvE than in PvP (after all, Destiny is mainly a PvE game for me), and 2) I want more DPS on bosses for speed on high end PvE activities. With Gjallarhorn taking over the exotic slot from Ice Breaker, BH is the best choice DPS wise. Had I not gotten a Gjallarhorn, I would have picked Hunger of Crota first; After DPS, I prioritize 300 damage weapons over 331 damage weapons because while latter are still pretty usable in Nightfall and PoE, the former feel a bit too weak (relative to its potential).
It is unclear to me whether PvP shotties are worth it yet. While they are great in PvP, their RoF (among other things) is not ideal for PvE use, and I probably won't have time to play any PvP until at least next IB. Of course, if the extra damage is noticeable in IB and ToO, I would definitely want to update them. That's why I would like to understand the PvP effect first. I was under the impression that the extra damage does not mean much in PvP, but I could be completely wrong.
Looks like my order is probably BH -> VoC -> Fatebringer -> Found Verdict -> Corrective Measure (hold off on this one until there is a good reason, like a Void Burn NF). There is another reason for this weird looking list: I did not spend much time with VoG weapons so make them 365 damage can give me extra incentive to use them more often.
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 6, 2015 15:18:31 GMT -5
I don't have many EL either Witty. I'm in a similar situation like you.
And I am planning on doing the BH soon, but prioritized the Party+1, as I was using it the entire past week in IB. Might as well level up something I am using all the time. That's at least how I saw it. BH will be nice too when I get to it, but right now, the Ice Breaker is close enough until I start getting some extra EL
As far as whether it's worth it in the IB? I would like to know too. From my end, anything we are discussing with it is nitpicking around some ridiculous edges. I'll talk out of my ass here and say leveling the Party+1 to 365, gets me one more extra kill a game if I am lucky? Maybe the average is 0.75? Instead of going 15-14, maybe I go 16-13? Who knows? It can't hurt me though, I am sure of that.
for what it's worth, shotguns seem to work pretty well in PvE too.
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Post by wings on Jul 6, 2015 15:19:14 GMT -5
It is unclear to me whether PvP shotties are worth it yet. While they are great in PvP, their RoF (among other things) is not ideal for PvE use, and I probably won't have time to play any PvP until at least next IB. I use a 365 Found Verdict in PvP over my 365 Secret Handshake. Also the Found Verdict is good when fighting Qodron as I can break the shield without the Jailbraker bonus with a second or two to spare.
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Post by tooros on Jul 6, 2015 15:22:16 GMT -5
I've done (in order) Fatebringer VoC Word of Crota (So one primary of each element)
Blackhammer Secret Handshake (solar) Found Verdict (arc) Swordbreaker
Praedyth's Revenge next.
After that. Not sure yet.
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Post by qupie on Jul 7, 2015 6:30:24 GMT -5
Also, what non-raid legendary weapons are worth ascending, if any? Pre-HoW Jolder's Hammer, which has Field Scout and Surplus on it. Any LMG or sniper with field scout is a great one imho, that is easily the best perk which you cannot get anymore for PvE. As for PVP, imho you should not ascend anything for PvP. I still use a 335 shotgun and rocket launcher.
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 7, 2015 6:42:59 GMT -5
Pre-HoW Jolder's Hammer, which has Field Scout and Surplus on it. Any LMG or sniper with field scout is a great one imho, that is easily the best perk which you cannot get anymore for PvE. As for PVP, imho you should not ascend anything for PvP. I still use a 335 shotgun and rocket launcher. What can it hurt, by ascending a shotgun? It has to do a little bit of good. It's giving you 10% more damage. Are you saying you have read, or know of some stats, that show it does no good?
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Post by qupie on Jul 7, 2015 6:43:26 GMT -5
I have no clue. But people are trying to tell me one bullet makes a difference on things like Radiant Skin. If that is true, it makes that much of a difference a couple times a game when you pop a 15 sec super..... ....why wouldn't leveling up a shotgun you use the entire 10 min game, pushing it's damage up 10% not be helpful? Sounds like an incredible cheap shot, but I will bite anyway. Weapons seem to be doing only like 1% extra damage, something which is not really notable on shotguns anyway if you look at the damage numbers. The difference between subclass settings are as far as it goes, one bullet is one bullet (which is actually a huge deal with the current meta (=25-33% more shots)). How small the difference is doesn't really matter, it is a choice and we are here to discuss which choice is best (in what scenario) with matching arguments. We are actually here to discuss this kind of things, why even have a discussion in the first place if it is only 15 seconds anyway? Why compare guns if the TTK differences are only 0.1 second. How often is that going to matter? Why even go like a message board like this one which is extremely nitpicky with stats? Indeed, because we like it. Not because it makes us into PvP gods. Whether some valuable resourse is wasted is something completely different from which choice is the best (however small the difference might be).
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Post by qupie on Jul 7, 2015 6:44:40 GMT -5
Any LMG or sniper with field scout is a great one imho, that is easily the best perk which you cannot get anymore for PvE. As for PVP, imho you should not ascend anything for PvP. I still use a 335 shotgun and rocket launcher. What can it hurt, by ascending a shotgun? It has to do a little bit of good. Are you saying you have read, or know of some stats, that show it does no good? Nothing, but as we are discussing which weapons returns the best value for the investment of EL, 335 crucible weapons certainly are not it. I am not saying a 335 is better than a 365. The question was whether it is worth it, which it is not. edit: I saw you edited your post, that 10% is just made up right to make a point? (not meant in a bad way, just really like to know what it actually does) Or do you have any evidence for that? Because I have been looking everywhere for some differences between attack numbers in IB/ToO. From my own experience it doesn't really matter, but of coarse I would love to see some hard data.
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 7, 2015 6:48:54 GMT -5
It wasn't a cheap shot at all. It's a legitimate fair question. Some of you really pushed that Radiant Skin vs Revive thing. And one of the major reasons for that push, was the 10% extra armor the skin gives a person. Allowing someone to have 450 health versus 400 ....over and above the normal 200. Choosing the skin essentially gives 10% more health when popping your super. Some of you were quite vehement in saying this is the best and only option to use (which is fair, strong opinions are good)
If that 10% is worth it that much for us to discuss (maybe it is, maybe it isn't)....how can you discuss that issue......and then just be so quick to dismiss what is a 10% extra damage on something that is literally used the entire PvP game, every time i shoot at someone (331 to 365 on base stats, not sure how it translates to actual damage that shows on character model) Again, this is something that is used the entire game, not just once or twice when popping a super.
That was my point. It's a fair question.
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Post by qupie on Jul 7, 2015 6:50:21 GMT -5
Okay now I can see where you were coming from. The problem is, an 10% attack rating does not translate into a 10% damage increase, it is not even close.
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 7, 2015 7:51:26 GMT -5
Okay now I can see where you were coming from. The problem is, an 10% attack rating does not translate into a 10% damage increase, it is not even close. Two quick thoughts here. 1. You mentioned 'worth' before. The problem is this is a very nebulous concept and gets even more tainted by 'Reddit Goggles'. Let me give an example. Ten gallons a water is worth almost nothing to me where I live, but to someone living over in some parched dry area of Africa, it's value would be immeasurable. And therein lies your problem when you try to say what a gun is worth when leveling. Take the Black Hammer. That might be well worth it...if I was using it these days, but I'm not. I was using the PartyCrasher+1 though, quite a bit. Literally an entire week of Iron Banner playing. To me, even if the actual benefit was miniscule, I got a ton of 'worth' from it as I was actually using that gun all week. And yes, you can reply back that I should think long term, but there is no long term in Destiny. I might stop playing next week. Guns might be rebalanced. I might come across 8 EL's making the whole decision meaningless. So all in all, 'worth' is defined by the 'now'. And last week, that's what was worth it to ME. 2. Regarding base stats. Yes. I know attack rating does not equal damage. This is why I said ..." "331 to 365 on base stats, not sure how it translates to actual damage that shows on character mode" ...and the problem is, I have yet to see anywhere, someone actually put this to the test to determine what exactly it does. I have tested regular crucible. Tested a VoC versus a Saterienne Rapier. Both guns have identical ROF and Impact. My VoC is 365, the Rapier is a 331. What happens in the crucible? Nothing. Both guns do identical damage at 41 per body, 61 per head. So for regular crucible, leveling a gun to 365 does not appear to give any benefits in terms of actually damaging an opponent. So where does that leave us with IB? Who knows. Bungie clearly states that leveling a gun to 365 DOES make a difference. This is clearly written. So let's say my PartyCrasher does 250 damage up to 3m and then drops off to 100 at 6m. My hypothetical OSK is at 5 meters. If 365 does increase the damage by even 3%, ....It would extend my one-hit-kill range to some degree. Maybe extend it from 5 meters to maybe 5.4 meters? An extra foot or two? That might seem pointless, but seeing how I run a shotgun in IB as my primary, I'm getting into probably twenty encounters a game, ...and all those encounters are going to be in that >10m range. So at least to me, that extra half meter might make a difference on a couple of those situations. How is that not worth something? Or back to the other point. If 50 health (1 to 2 bullets)on a three times a game super (30 seconds tops) is a key factor that is worth discussing, how is the above not worthy too?
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 7, 2015 8:03:41 GMT -5
Also, one other point. If you read my first post in the IB thread the past week, you'll see where I am coming from. I saw a lot of situations where I was just missing one shot kills. Especially so against level 34 players. All my characters the past week were level 33. I was seeing this multiple times a game, where I shot someone in that under-6 meter range with my Party+1...and they stayed alive. A sliver of health left. That was very frustrating. What was I to do? I couldn't just 'level up'. Not an option.
I know what Bungie's charts say. That there is almost no perceptive difference in playing advantages between a level 33 and 34. But that is not true. I'm calling bullshit on it. While I can't be certain that everything I saw was explained by 33 vs 34, ...I did see many instances where my attacks left slivers of health on a higher leveled opponent. Like a Titan grenade sticking, but not killing. But it killing on a level 32 opponent. Levels matter. So having to spend a week playing IB....why wouldn't I try to even out this disadvantage I had, by trying to boost one variable I could control,....the damage on my shotgun.
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Post by hebbnh on Jul 7, 2015 8:23:56 GMT -5
I'd guess some of that issue is probably related to lag. I know I had at least one occasion last night where I rocked somebody point blank with a 331 Matador, and barely took the shield off. I was at level 34 so level didn't matter. I even turned around after shooting knowing there's no way I missed and no way they could live through that. I have enough experience with a 331 Felwinter's which has slightly less impact than my Matador to know that 100%. Then I got shot in the back by that guy and died. The only explanation was that I missed because he wasn't where he actually appeared on my screen. I've started chalking up pretty much everything goofy like up to lag, especially in IB which is even more of a lagfest than normal.
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Post by iw5000 on Jul 7, 2015 8:30:25 GMT -5
I'd guess some of that issue is probably related to lag. I know I had at least one occasion last night where I rocked somebody point blank with a 331 Matador, and barely took the shield off. I was at level 34 so level didn't matter. I even turned around after shooting knowing there's no way I missed and no way they could live through that. I have enough experience with a 331 Felwinter's which has slightly less impact than my Matador to know that 100%. Then I got shot in the back by that guy and died. The only explanation was that I missed because he wasn't where he actually appeared on my screen. I've started chalking up pretty much everything goofy like up to lag, especially in IB which is even more of a lagfest than normal. Yeah, and that's a good point too. This is a 30fps FPS that probably has a low population count, which is going to force laggy situations. I don't think we are on Dedis. So if we have low numbers, god only knows how far we are being dragged to the host. It would be nice if Bungie took the guessing out of this stuff, and just allowed us to test the damage stuff ourselves, like have private lobbies where we could set this up to test.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Jul 7, 2015 8:35:51 GMT -5
Okay now I can see where you were coming from. The problem is, an 10% attack rating does not translate into a 10% damage increase, it is not even close. Two quick thoughts here. 1. You mentioned 'worth' before. The problem is this is a very nebulous concept and gets even more tainted by 'Reddit Goggles'. Let me give an example. Ten gallons a water is worth almost nothing to me where I live, but to someone living over in some parched dry area of Africa, it's value would be immeasurable. And therein lies your problem when you try to say what a gun is worth when leveling. Take the Black Hammer. That might be well worth it...if I was using it these days, but I'm not. I was using the PartyCrasher+1 though, quite a bit. Literally an entire week of Iron Banner playing. To me, even if the actual benefit was miniscule, I got a ton of 'worth' from it as I was actually using that gun all week. And yes, you can reply back that I should think long term, but there is no long term in Destiny. I might stop playing next week. Guns might be rebalanced. I might come across 8 EL's making the whole decision meaningless. So all in all, 'worth' is defined by the 'now'. And last week, that's what was worth it to ME. I completely agree, as witty was asking the question, the answer was mostly directed at him. And reading how little he has, it is not worth it. Hell I think for the most players on this board it is not worth it. I have 22 EL in my vault atm from playing pvp alone, simply because I have no time to figure out what PvE weapons I want to ascend, and I still use 335 level weapons in ToO/IB. I am going to figure out what PvE guns to ascend when I have some time during holiday or something. The way you make the comparison is that an black hammer is useless in PvP, which I agree with. But that is only because you made that acact comparison. One could compare it with ascending a new pair of boots which boost you from 100int/75disp to 100int/100disp, which would be way more effective than ascending a gun from 335 to 375.
So while I agree that worth is a subjective measure, I know how much you guys have more or less, and that's why I can actually make that assessment. So if somebody with limited time asks whether it is worth it to ascend their shotgun for PvP, I wholeheartedly say no, and know that is the right answer. To use your example: I can assess how much that gallon of water is worth, as long as I know where you live. It is not as if I am not able to make such an assessment from a distance. I didn't even bring up the "worth" btw, I only responded to it because somebody asked about it... so direct your goggles argument in another direction please.
The second part as worth is subjective in crucible as well, you make a valid point, the problem is, I am willing to argue it makes NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL. As far as I know, lvl 335 on lvl 34 vs 365 on lvl 34 doesn't make a difference at all. Even if it did make a difference, it would be really really small (like 1%) The problem is that 1% damage difference (very) rarely actually makes a difference, especially with shotguns. The good shotguns in destiny do 23/24 damage. Players have 200 health. That means that even IF your 335 shotgun get only 22/23 damage because your weapon has a lower attack rating, this doesn't alter the number of pallets you need to kill, save from some very small and almost only theoretical distances. IF it even makes a difference. The only thing bungie said about attack levels is that a lower level player CAN still be great thread IF they have high attack level guns, and from my experience, that is the only way it actually matters, if you underleveled. Shotguns are a very hard way to test this stuff because of the range drop off, but I tested my thorn in ToO and a 335 and 365 thorn did the same amount of damage per hit and per DoT tick.
So imho one CAN assess if it is worth it, and one can even call it worthless.
2. Regarding base stats. Yes. I know attack rating does not equal damage. This is why I said ..." "331 to 365 on base stats, not sure how it translates to actual damage that shows on character mode" ...and the problem is, I have yet to see anywhere, someone actually put this to the test to determine what exactly it does. I have tested regular crucible. Tested a VoC versus a Saterienne Rapier. Both guns have identical ROF and Impact. My VoC is 365, the Rapier is a 331. What happens in the crucible? Nothing. Both guns do identical damage at 41 per body, 61 per head. So for regular crucible, leveling a gun to 365 does not appear to give any benefits in terms of actually damaging an opponent. So where does that leave us with IB? Who knows. Bungie clearly states that leveling a gun to 365 DOES make a difference. This is clearly written. So let's say my PartyCrasher does 250 damage up to 3m and then drops off to 100 at 6m. My hypothetical OSK is at 5 meters. If 365 does increase the damage by even 3%, ....It would extend my one-hit-kill range to some degree. Maybe extend it from 5 meters to maybe 5.4 meters? An extra foot or two? That might seem pointless, but seeing how I run a shotgun in IB as my primary, I'm getting into probably twenty encounters a game, ...and all those encounters are going to be in that >10m range. So at least to me, that extra half meter might make a difference on a couple of those situations. How is that not worth something? Because it probably doesn't increase the damage at all! Or back to the other point. If 50 health (1 to 2 bullets)on a three times a game super (30 seconds tops) is a key factor that is worth discussing, how is the above not worthy too? And it doesn't compare to the benefit 50 extra health can give you, especially because that is a choice between two options (which are always interesting, how small the difference is) compared to a choice between spending a rare currency and keeping it.
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