Slick
True Bro
Taking the piss
Posts: 1,015
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Post by Slick on Aug 25, 2015 12:01:39 GMT -5
Some background so you know where I'm coming from: I had played about 3 hours of Call of Duty over the last 18-19 months, completely skipped AW. I did for the following reasons: Sledgehammer hid ping, which is simply unacceptable. This was their first game, and wasn't a fan of the weapon unlocking system. Getting the best equipment should not be left to luck. I didn't like the fact 3rd party hardware had such a tremendous advantage due to how powerful boosting was and the need to aim and kill while doing so. When the game came out, it became quickly apparent weapon balance was also borked and so were the updates to weapons. Balancing weapons didn't extend to the weapon variants. Exo zombies felt like a soulless attempt at replicating the success of Treyarch's Zombies franchise and I wasn't a fan of the gameplay I saw.
So now we're gonna talk about BO3. I was already paying attention to the development process, because I hope Grief makes a return, and they're the primary developer of Call of Duty to me. I was honestly surprised a multiplayer beta was even taking place, and was even more surprised when it became free to play during the last three days, so naturally, I downloaded it as soon as I learned of this. I was taken aback by Activision's willingness to go for the beta, so I was expecting a generally good experience.
I primarily played solo TDM and played a few games of Dom and S&D. I leveled to rank 35 before the servers were turned off. I estimate I spent about 13 hours or so playing. I can confidently say that after playing the beta, Treyarch has a great game that's pretty much ready to push out the door. It became apparent this is a demo and not really a beta and was only called one for legal reasons. Treyarch brought back ping information and even provides real-time ping and packet loss information. They get it. The goal should be to provide players more information, not less. Sledgehammer's decision to hide ping was a slap to anyone that cares about their experience while playing.
Movement:I fell in love with the sliding, boosting and wall running mechanics very quickly. They're more controlled and very smooth compared to the very sudden, jagged movement in AW. Boosting upward is also not an instant win in gunfights. Getting kills while wall running is an incredible feeling and so is boost sliding to survive encounters and get kills you otherwise wouldn't have gotten. Just have to be mindful of people that ADS eye candy routes; wall running leaves you exposed and vulnerable. Improvised routes will be a thing. I saw and tried a route that scales the outside edge of the map. Pretty difficult to use, but it will catch people ADS'ing the expected wall running surface by surprise. Using these improvised routes will elevate the skill ceiling a bit higher and will probably see the most use in S&D.
Toward the final few hours I discovered the art of forward slide into bunny hopping funsies to race around corners to kill use mind bulletsers. Fun as hell.
Maps: Forgettable, but not terrible. Nothing very revolutionary but they play differently due to the wall running. You can use wall running to expand possible routes and fly over line of sights. Learn the spots and the routes and you're good to go. I can only speak for TDM and have no idea if the flag positions in Dom or if the bomb sites in S&D are in "fair" positions for competitive play.
Weapons: The weapon balance is better than AW, but you will of course have your tiers of weapons. If any weapon is gonna get the nerf hammer, it'll likely be the M8 assault. Very accurate, kills reliably at range and can shotgun people fairly reliably as well. If it had been in the starting group of weapons, it would have seen its use rise very quickly. Very strong gun. The SMG's were underwhelming except for the Razorback. I used it, the AK, and the pump shotty throughout the entire beta. Attachments I liked were Quickdraw, Suppressor on Razorback, Stock on my AK, and Lasersight and Longbarrel for the Shotgun.
Closing remarks and observations: Flinch is a thing. Getting hit first isn't automatic death, but your odds of winning aren't very good. For this reason, I found Quickdraw to be a must run on Assaults, with Stock being a strong consideration. On the M8, I'd really want to take the Red Dot Sight, but on the AK and its beautiful irons, I had no difficulty sniping slow moving/still players in windows. The recoil made fast moving targets impossible though, which is an ability only the M8 can reliably do. I opted to run Quickdraw and Suppressor on Razorback because it's a more aggressive/faster weapon class that involves more flanking. Giving my position away when I fire a bullet is undesirable for this reason. Lasersight and Longbarrel on the shotgun was the only way I could get it to perform reasonably in point blank situations.
Sunday was a bad day to play due to server issues. Other than it, connectivity was acceptable to good. The beta has won me over, this is a great Call of Duty, and I'm only pondering if I want an xbone and a copy to play there or just stick with the PS4. I'd give my beta experience a 9/10.
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Aug 25, 2015 12:12:58 GMT -5
Sunday was a bad day to play due to server issues. Other than it, connectivity was acceptable to good. The beta has won me over, this is a great Call of Duty, and I'm only pondering if I want an xbone and a copy to play there or just stick with the PS4. I'd give my beta experience a 9/10. Slick: thanks for the detailed review. Glad to see that you are at least considering getting an XONE. Enjoyed playing with you and Post Mortem during BLOPS2 days, and hopefully you can join us We will let you know how the connectivity experience is like on XONE. Bros like Pegasus Actual plays on both platforms, so I trust him to give an impartial assessment on platform comparison.
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tooros
True Bro
Pony Stark
Posts: 1,306
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Post by tooros on Aug 25, 2015 13:34:38 GMT -5
To be fair: the ps4 had good connections for me. Only when the dedi's were off was it flaky, or during the multiple updates. 'Played with TheHawkNY last night and we both commented on how well it played over the Atlantic. I don't think it's possible to reliably judge during a hammered, updating, code limited demo.
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Aug 25, 2015 13:47:42 GMT -5
To be fair: the ps4 had good connections for me. Only when the dedi's were off was it flaky, or during the multiple updates. 'Played with TheHawkNY last night and we both commented on how well it played over the Atlantic. I don't think it's possible to reliably judge during a hammered, updating, code limited demo. Sure. And XONE/PC beta probably will get new builds that hopefully addressed some top connectivity issues discovered from PS4 beta, making it an unfair comparison. However, for bros who are trying to decide which platform to pick, this beta is the only way to have a direct comparison. We will have to take it for what it is worth.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Aug 25, 2015 14:48:07 GMT -5
How does the new black fedora(hat) differ from it's BLOPS2 counterpart?
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Post by lackingdamage on Aug 25, 2015 15:24:28 GMT -5
How does the new black fedora(hat) differ from it's BLOPS2 counterpart? Only played the PS4 version could be nerfed on xbone or PC version. Put it this way the black hat is now even better and can steal anything. You want that air streak just hack it Want that UAV just hack it Want that just hack it 6 seconds of your time you can steal anything.. Certain ones require two black hats to take it.
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Post by sleepy on Aug 25, 2015 16:11:10 GMT -5
I thought most of the perks were pretty weak. The only ones that really do something worthy are flak jacket, tac mask, and awareness.
This is coming from someone that played Dom for the most part.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Aug 25, 2015 16:39:21 GMT -5
I forgot to throw Opportunistic Vulture on my Vesper class after I unlocked it. Oh well, I guess I'll grind that out on Xbox so I can get a proper spray n pray going this weekend.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Aug 25, 2015 16:48:05 GMT -5
I forgot to throw Opportunistic Vulture on my Vesper class after I unlocked it. Oh well, I guess I'll grind that out on Xbox so I can get a proper spray n pray going this weekend. Use a shotgun.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Aug 25, 2015 17:11:56 GMT -5
I did.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Aug 25, 2015 20:37:28 GMT -5
So far I've only tried the KRM.....what a piece of shit. They literally took the 870, gave it a shitty fire rate, and then made it LESS consistent. And driftor is dead wrong about the mobility helping things. You move slow as molasses so good luck getting close enough to 1hk someone.
What especially pisses me off is that I had so much fun with the tac19 sledgehammer. That shotgun actually had a consistent 1hk range, especially after the buff it got. And the movement of AW actually helped with using it. You could slide and IMMEDIATELY start sprinting again, unlike BO3 where there is this dumb delay. Jumping and mantling in AW was quick, unlike in BO3 where it's slow and cumbersome.
Seriously, what the fuck. No wonder they did a tiny stealth buff during the beta. The only hope is that after a few weeks of data comes in it becomes obvious that the shotguns are severely underpowered and they get buffed to BO2 levels.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Aug 25, 2015 21:04:23 GMT -5
and they get buffed to BO2 levels. Holy moley never thought I'd hear that. We're at the point in Booty Calls where BLOPs2 shotguns are relatively good. What a world.
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Post by RainbowCrash on Aug 25, 2015 21:09:15 GMT -5
I won't jump to conclusions too quick but I feel like there are some major optimization issues in the PC version. I have a GTX 660 with 3GB vram, 16G ram, and an amdFX8350, which i thought was pretty decent hardware and I'm getting some really bad studdering on relatively low settings. I was able to max out settings with high frames on BO2 no problem, I updated my drivers today too. Something also really weird with the mouse look but that might just be because of the studdering its honestly unplayable for me right now.
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Post by volgon on Aug 25, 2015 21:15:04 GMT -5
I won't jump to conclusions too quick but I feel like there are some major optimization issues in the PC version. I have a GTX 660 with 3GB vram, 16G ram, and an amdFX8350, which i thought was pretty decent hardware and I'm getting some really bad studdering on relatively low settings. I was able to max out settings with high frames on BO2 no problem, I updated my drivers today too. Something also really weird with the mouse look but that might just be because of the studdering its honestly unplayable for me right now. Same here. My system is about 2 years old now (770 + 4670 + 8gb RAM) and the studdering is unreal. Constant 200 fps on BO2. Not sure if you're getting it too but everything looks really blurry to me, even when I turned textures on Extra/Ultra/whatever the highest option is.
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Post by RainbowCrash on Aug 25, 2015 21:25:03 GMT -5
I won't jump to conclusions too quick but I feel like there are some major optimization issues in the PC version. I have a GTX 660 with 3GB vram, 16G ram, and an amdFX8350, which i thought was pretty decent hardware and I'm getting some really bad studdering on relatively low settings. I was able to max out settings with high frames on BO2 no problem, I updated my drivers today too. Something also really weird with the mouse look but that might just be because of the studdering its honestly unplayable for me right now. Same here. My system is about 2 years old now (770 + 4670 + 8gb RAM) and the studdering is unreal. Constant 200 fps on BO2. Not sure if you're getting it too but everything looks really blurry to me, even when I turned textures on Extra/Ultra/whatever the highest option is. I had that at first too, for some reason it sets the resolution scaling to .50 by default, making it look like ps3 graphics. change the scene scaling to 1.0
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 4:30:57 GMT -5
I won't jump to conclusions too quick but I feel like there are some major optimization issues in the PC version. I have a GTX 660 with 3GB vram, 16G ram, and an amdFX8350, which i thought was pretty decent hardware and I'm getting some really bad studdering on relatively low settings. I was able to max out settings with high frames on BO2 no problem, I updated my drivers today too. Something also really weird with the mouse look but that might just be because of the studdering its honestly unplayable for me right now. Same here. My system is about 2 years old now (770 + 4670 + 8gb RAM) and the studdering is unreal. Constant 200 fps on BO2. Not sure if you're getting it too but everything looks really blurry to me, even when I turned textures on Extra/Ultra/whatever the highest option is. They said they haven't done any optimization yet and that it will be better by launch but it runs like straight ass right now. I'm on an i7 with a 670 and I had to crank everything down to low along with using a really low res (1024x768). With my FPS capped at 125 I get 100ish FPS but that doesn't take the stuttering or some of the weird mouse issues the game has into consideration. Also the water near the B flag on Evac just absolutely tanks my FPS. Ignoring the asstastic performance the game is reasonably fun but my biggest gripe are the map sizes. I thought the maps in Blops3 would actually be bigger compared to Blops2 maps due to the new movement but they feel either just as small or even smaller. Evac and Hunted are just barely large enough to not feel extremely cramped but Combine is an absolute pain to play. Getting kills on that map doesn't feel rewarding at all and taking that one wall run on the side of the map pretty much puts you into the other teams spawn. I really doubt the rest of the maps will be much different but I hope these maps are the smaller maps of Blops3. Also the ADS sensitivity on the snipers is unnecessarily fast. I'm actually sort of unsure if this is a bug since every other gun that I've used that isn't a sniper feels just fine when ADS'ing.
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Post by RainbowCrash on Aug 26, 2015 7:06:29 GMT -5
I managed to get a solid 60 fps by scaling back to 720p and that made the game feel smooth and playable. Actually having fun now. I wont sweat it too hard knowing 3arch acknowledges that the game isn't optimized yet and it will be better by launch I hope.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Aug 26, 2015 9:10:50 GMT -5
and they get buffed to BO2 levels. Holy moley never thought I'd hear that. We're at the point in Booty Calls where BLOPs2 shotguns are relatively good. What a world. The thing is though the 870 was consistent enough and fired fast enough that it was good. Even the tac19 sledgehammer was good. The BO3 pump has MW3 firerate with predamage consistency. Two things either or would help the shotguns immensely: - increasing shotgun movement speed by 10% - increasing shotgun range by 20%
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Post by TheHawkNY on Aug 26, 2015 9:23:57 GMT -5
Holy moley never thought I'd hear that. We're at the point in Booty Calls where BLOPs2 shotguns are relatively good. What a world. The thing is though the 870 was consistent enough and fired fast enough that it was good. Even the tac19 sledgehammer was good. The BO3 pump has MW3 firerate with predamage consistency. Two things either or would help the shotguns immensely: - increasing shotgun movement speed by 10% - increasing shotgun range by 20% Neither of those address the real problem, which is that hipfire accuracy is abysmal, and you can't rely on it even at ranges where you should be able to. The hipspread is abysmal, even with laser sight. Boosting the movement speed and range only exacerbate the problem of terrible players getting lucky shotgun kills, which was the problem with the 870 in the first place. Make it so you aim on a target within range and it kills, don't make it so it's still a crapshoot but you come around corners even faster and fire without looking so it takes no skill to use.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Aug 26, 2015 9:57:55 GMT -5
870? Consistent? Ahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha That thing could get hitmarkers inside small rooms. Seriously go into a private match with a sniper with the CPU and start measuring out 25 feet, which is what it measures in. That's its 50 damage range. Now measure out 37 feet. That's where it's 10 damage starts, and stays at up to 54 feet, where it then drops off to nothing. Long barrel was absolutely necessary to make it good, and that barely helped. The 50 damage gained 4 feet in range and then dropped off over 14 feet instead of 12. I've said it before I'll say it again. The Stakeout from BO1 is more consistent, and overall a better shotgun,than the 870.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Aug 26, 2015 10:13:39 GMT -5
870? Consistent? Ahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha That thing could get hitmarkers inside small rooms. Seriously go into a private match with a sniper with the CPU and start measuring out 25 feet, which is what it measures in. That's its 50 damage range. Now measure out 37 feet. That's where it's 10 damage starts, and stays at up to 54 feet, where it then drops off to nothing. Long barrel was absolutely necessary to make it good, and that barely helped. The 50 damage gained 4 feet in range and then dropped off over 14 feet instead of 12. I've said it before I'll say it again. The Stakeout from BO1 is more consistent, and overall a better shotgun,than the 870. I agree. I'd take the Stakeout with Steady Aim over any shotgun in BO2 or either one we've seen in BO3. I'd also take the Olympia over the KRM. Really hoping they put in a double barrel.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Aug 26, 2015 11:05:25 GMT -5
The thing is though the 870 was consistent enough and fired fast enough that it was good. Even the tac19 sledgehammer was good. The BO3 pump has MW3 firerate with predamage consistency. Two things either or would help the shotguns immensely: - increasing shotgun movement speed by 10% - increasing shotgun range by 20% Neither of those address the real problem, which is that hipfire accuracy is abysmal, and you can't rely on it even at ranges where you should be able to. The hipspread is abysmal, even with laser sight. Boosting the movement speed and range only exacerbate the problem of terrible players getting lucky shotgun kills, which was the problem with the 870 in the first place. Make it so you aim on a target within range and it kills, don't make it so it's still a crapshoot but you come around corners even faster and fire without looking so it takes no skill to use. The thing is that from my experience I was able to get consistent hipfire 1hks with the sledgehammer with laser sight, AR, and extended mags, in spite it having a massive hipfire spread of 6.8. Why? Because it had a 2 pellet kill range of 375 units and was a 4 pellet kill past that. Meanwhile we don't know what the 2 pellet kill range of the KRM is, but it sure isn't even close to 250. And the problem is exacerbated by the fact that the KRM now shoots as slow as an MW3 shotgun. I do agree that reducing the base hipfire spread would help too though. It would also make it more skill based. And yes, Alex, the 870 was definitely much more consistent compared to MW3 shotguns and the stakeout. There's a reason the 870 with laser sight and long barrel is more fondly remembered by many shotguners than the stakeout. And again, for those times that you got a hitmarker with the 870, you could shoot again very quickly and not worry that you just used up half your ammo. If the KRM had better spread and an easier time getting people within that 2 pellet kill range it would be so much more usable.
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Post by kylet357 on Aug 26, 2015 12:06:01 GMT -5
To be honest, I much preferred the MW3 shotguns than the Black Ops 2 shotguns. Better hipfire, damage, range, pellet count (USAS-12 and KSG-12), etc. The only thing the BO2 shotguns have on the MW3 shotguns is the amazing ADS spread. Even According to the MW3 and BO2 stat charts, the SPAS-12 was more consistent than the R870 up to 493 units (of which it was a four pellet kill without damage). And then there's also the case of the Specialist reward, which will give you Range even if you have Damage on your shotgun already. So, that 30-14 damage with 400-700 units range SPAS-12 is now a 42-19 damage with 500-875 units of range SPAS-12. So, taking all of this into consideration, the MW3 SPAS-12 outclasses the R870. As does the KSG-12 and Model 1887.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Aug 26, 2015 12:16:10 GMT -5
And yes, Alex, the 870 was definitely much more consistent compared to MW3 shotguns and the stakeout. There's a reason the 870 with laser sight and long barrel is more fondly remembered by many shotguners than the stakeout. And again, for those times that you got a hitmarker with the 870, you could shoot again very quickly and not worry that you just used up half your ammo. No, it wasn't. The 870 being remembered more fondly than the Stakeout comes down to the fact the Stakeout wasn't the best shotgun in BO1, but the 870 was (outside the KSG, but that's really it's own category). Which should tell you something because the Stakeout was better than the 870. I love how you had to add the caveat of "using half your ammo" because that's the only problem with the Stakeout, especially because the rate of fire was practically the same between the 870 and Stakeout. The 870 was not consistent. Sure it was slightly, ever so slightly, better at close range. Because it only required two pellets and the giant spread made it ensure you would hit your target. But I don't use shotguns at such insignificant ranges, did you ever bother to figure out 25 feet is in game? If I'm using a shotgun that has a rate of fire of anything less than 4 shots a second, I want good consistent one hit kills, the 870 did not do that, because outside of that minuscule 50 damage range, it was an inferior shotgun in every single way...except ammo capacity.
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Aug 26, 2015 14:01:00 GMT -5
Any PS3 bros remember the 13 pellet KSG and the 13 pellet USAS? Those things still got hit markers somehow, even with damage. Two things either or would help the shotguns immensely: - increasing shotgun movement speed by 10% - increasing shotgun range by 20% Instead of that, how about we give the shotguns an absurdly tight hip spread and ADS spread? On top of that, give each shotgun 12 pellets. But that 110% movement speed does sound pretty nice. Dem balance fantasies before the fucking game is even out.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Aug 26, 2015 14:53:48 GMT -5
They really should look towards pellet count as a way to balance shotguns. Bf4 recently did that, and the shotguns are actually usable in short to medium ranges because of it. Their 870 does 11.2 damage up to 25 meters and drops off to 5.6 damage at 50 meters and had 19 pellets and the spread isn't atrocious.
It would make them viable at both close range and near the end of their range but still actually require you to aim.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Aug 26, 2015 15:58:41 GMT -5
The central parameter is pellets to kill density. For example, a 100x1 (damage times pellets) shotgun with 0 spread is, assuming infinite player skill, is better than a 1x100 shotgun with any amount of spread because the former is more dense.
All else equal, less spread creates a more powerful weapon, but also makes the gun harder to use, particularly in close quarters against other weapon classes with much higher rates of fire.
My solution: high pellet count, high hip spread, tight ADS spread. MW2 shotguns had around 5 spread. 10 spread (i.e. same as R870) would allow easy hip fire kills, especially against subs. Because 10 spread is approximately four times larger than 5, such a shotgun would four times as many pellets, or 32.
And then we consider the ranges mentioned by Mousey: point bank, mid, and long.
I believe all shotguns should deal 100 damage per pellet at point blank to counter melee and subs. However, the length of this range should be short. For example, it would be around 128 units for a pump and then decrease as fire rate increases. A full auto would have a pathetic small 100 damage range. Hip fire is a guaranteed kill in this range.
Mid range: a pump would deal around 13x32 damage from 128-500 units. This is equivalent to 50x8. At this range, hip fire can still kill, but usually not in a single shot. With a tight ADS spread, however, like 2 or less, the pump can reliably one shot throughout the entire range.
Long range: 500-800 units. Pump damage: 7x32. Hip fire is completely ineffectual. However, one shot ADS kills can theoretically be obtained throughout the entire range. Assuming perfect accuracy, most cases will require two shots to kill, with the occasional three shot. A two shot kill in this range has a TTK nearly fourfold any other weapon class.
Just lower the damages for higher fire rate guns.
Summary: RPM: 90 Damage: 100-13-7 Range: 128-500-800 Pellets: 32 Hip Spread: 10 ADS Spread: 2 ADS In: 150 ms ADS Mobility: 80%
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Aug 26, 2015 16:04:59 GMT -5
Mousey
Well that's why I think they need both lower spread and higher pellet count. That's why I point out BF4. They have tiny spread, hipfiring while moving with a shotgun is 1.75. They also have anywhere from 12 pellets on the fastest semiautomatic shotgun to 21 pellets on the slowest pump action shotgun.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Aug 26, 2015 18:06:22 GMT -5
But I don't use shotguns at such insignificant ranges, did you ever bother to figure out 25 feet is in game? If I'm using a shotgun that has a rate of fire of anything less than 4 shots a second, I want good consistent one hit kills, the 870 did not do that, because outside of that minuscule 50 damage range, it was an inferior shotgun in every single way...except ammo capacity. 300 units or 7.6 meters isn't that insignificant. Especially when you have numerous CQC areas on a map. It's the same 2 pellet kill range as the tac19 without AR and that gun has notable hipfire 1hk range. The stakeout had 370 units of 3 pellet kill range and past that you can't expect to get a hipfire 1hk. The stakeout and 870 both had hitmarker ranges of 650, so that 300 units is essentially half the range of the shotgun. And with long barrel it becomes 350. So yeah I'd say it was consistent for about half of its range, unlike the KRM which seems to be consistent for a shorter range.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Aug 26, 2015 21:44:23 GMT -5
I absolutely can expect OHK from more than 3 pellets, with decent spread. 2/3 is my rule of thumb, in which the 5 pellet kill of the Stakeout is greater than the 10 pellets of the 870. You ignore that the 870 is a 10 pellet kill at 451 units. Whereas the Stakeout's 5 pellet to kill lasts until 523 units. And yes, 25 feet is insignificant. That's the area of Hijacked overlooking C flag. That's 43 feet or 516 units. That's past the 10 pellets range on the 870, with long barrel. That is just over the 2 pellet kill range on the balcony overlooking B flag. From the corner to the wall just inside the door. So you're right, it is consistent, consistently bad in 90% of typical range engagements.
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