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Post by RageHulkSmash on Nov 19, 2012 4:43:16 GMT -5
So far, I like Black Ops 2 more than I originally anticipated. But there was always something specific about this game I didn't like but didn't really know what it was. I think I finally found out what it is I hate about BO2, it's the fucking UAV. I've been playing CoD games since MW2 and I know UAV has been in all of them. Never have I felt this way about the UAV in any previous CoD game.
BO2 vs. MW3 UAV
In MW3, there were many factors why the UAV was balanced/underpowered. Here are the main ones I can think of:
1) Multiple Strike Packages: Many players used specialist instead of uav. 2) Assassin: This was overused and could be obtained through specialist. 3) Blind Eye Pro: While not popular, a silenced lmg class with BEP could easily take out UAVs with minimal bullets. I abused this.
Now, compare to BO2. Here's the bullsh!t we have instead:
1) Only one "strike package": Everyone has access to UAV for just one killstreak slot, making it a popular choice. 2) Ghost: Unlocked at level 55 or use a prestige token. This only works WHILE MOVING, limiting the playstyles/tactics that benefit from it. 3) FMJ: Is this even working correctly? I did some private match testing and it took 50 bullets from the Mk48 w/ FMJ to take out a UAV. 50 lmg bullets could destroy a pavelow in MW3.
On top of that, here's some more wtf:
4) UAV Assists: the UAV now gives assist points to lead into more scorestreaks. 5) Counter UAV: CUAV costs 600 points vs 350 points for UAV. In previous games, CUAV was only one more kill (100 points) than UAV. 6) Scorestreaks: It's easier to get scorestreaks here than it was getting killstreaks in previous games (in some gamemodes). All assists and objectives will give points now.
This is ridiculous. It's like the enemy knows exactly where you are at all times unless you strictly play that silenced rusher spec with ghost. I'm one of those players that absolutely hates it when the enemy knows where I am in ways other than physically seeing my character model on their screen, so I feel compelled into using ghost and silencers. The problem is, I don't always enjoy rushing like a maniac and like to play defensively from time to time.
The one good thing that came out of BO2 is the black hat working against UAVs. But it's not enough to warrant the UAV balanced imo. Other than that, BO2 did a damn fine job making UAVs overpowered.
I know some people think that the overabundance on UAVs are because the game is new and people haven't really tried other killstreaks yet, but I disagree. Never has the UAV been this powerful in previous games. I'm betting that a few days/weeks down the line, most of the players will still be using UAV as one of their scorestreaks.
Imo they should increase the score cost of UAV and/or remove the moving requirement of ghost. They should definitely look into FMJ though, that's such bullshit.
Does anyone else feel the same sentiments as me on the UAV? Or am I just over-reacting?
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Nov 19, 2012 4:44:53 GMT -5
I felt the same exact way, until I spent a prestige token on geist bro.
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Nov 19, 2012 4:50:28 GMT -5
I felt the same exact way, until I spent a prestige token on geist bro. Oh that was the first thing I did when I prestiged. And I still feel the same way about UAV lol.
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Post by Indy_Bones on Nov 19, 2012 5:05:23 GMT -5
I see less UAV's so far in BO2 than I did in MW3, that was basically a constant UAV stream due to the support class making even shocking players able to get rewards.
A CUAV SHOULD be more expensive than a normal UAV because it counters an infinite amount of UAV's whilst it's up there, so in actual fact it becomes more and more effective, the more UAV's the enemy toss up there.
I have no issue with players wanting to flank or use similar tactics, but by using Ghost etc to do this, then unfortunately this creates the double edged camp sword where it also allows people to sit in dark corners and stay off the mini-map as well.
I'd rather die to a rusher who's using his weapon and KS reward to it's strengths, than to someone who's sat motionless for most of the game until you happen to walk in the room and be unfortunate enough to be checking the other 3 corners as he nails you from the 4th...
UAV's can also be EASILY taken down with not only Launchers, but also the BH PDA (and weapon fire if needed but I wouldn't recommend it however...), so how many MORE counters as well as being able to add Ghost (even if diluted somewhat) into the mix do you genuinely want ffs?
As for UAV assists, yes, that's an extra 10 points towards another reward, so for anything massively tangible you need 10-20 assists or more from one and if you DO get these then it means your TEAM is doing well and killing everyone!
If scorestreaks are easier to achieve than before, why are so many players saying the complete opposite and that the higher rewards are too tough to get consistently? I think they're on a par with BO1 tbh, and easier than MW3 (mainly due to the horrific spawning) but not as easy as MW2.
I fully agree that at times the UAV seems overused/spammed, but there are counters to it if you want them, but the key issue there is that too many players are unwilling to run these counters and would rather whine about UAV's instead.
I run a launcher on virtually all my classes (knife and sniper aside), yet how many teammates do I see with them? Virtually none, but they're quite happy to moan about 'endless' UAV's over voicecom however...well equip a launcher and deal with them then!
I don't feel that you have to rush in BO2, and I do think that tactical loitering has been dealt a blow as well which is exactly what most of us wanted. It's all about adapting new playstyles and being willing to accept that things that may have worked before, don't anymore and we can either moan incessantly about them or suck it up and move on.
This isn't a dig at you either Sycthe, simply an observation that a large % of the playerbase would rather moan than do something constructive and make changes to the way they play...
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Evan950
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Post by Evan950 on Nov 19, 2012 5:13:57 GMT -5
fmj does not increase damage. it only increases penetration. also, you can easily shoot down uav's with launchers and such, then build up to counter and there you go.
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bravo2zero
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Post by bravo2zero on Nov 19, 2012 5:59:02 GMT -5
fmj does not increase damage. it only increases penetration.. I thought FMJ increased damage against killstreaks and turrets?!
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Nov 19, 2012 6:01:40 GMT -5
fmj does not increase damage. it only increases penetration. also, you can easily shoot down uav's with launchers and such, then build up to counter and there you go. They added Blind Eye Pro to FMJ in BO2. "Increased material penetration and damage against enemy scorestreaks." @indy_Bones: Fair enough . In MW3 and BO1, I used assassin/ghost on pretty much all my classes so I didn't care about UAVs. In this game, I feel like a headless chicken running around with ghost but I could just be getting a bad streak of unlucky.
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Evan950
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Post by Evan950 on Nov 19, 2012 8:12:38 GMT -5
fmj does not increase damage. it only increases penetration. also, you can easily shoot down uav's with launchers and such, then build up to counter and there you go. They added Blind Eye Pro to FMJ in BO2. "Increased material penetration and damage against enemy scorestreaks." @indy_Bones: Fair enough . In MW3 and BO1, I used assassin/ghost on pretty much all my classes so I didn't care about UAVs. In this game, I feel like a headless chicken running around with ghost but I could just be getting a bad streak of unlucky. woops, my bad. i was questioning myself on that one. i've never hovered over the attachment
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 19, 2012 8:48:05 GMT -5
I know some people think that the overabundance on UAVs are because the game is new and people haven't really tried other killstreaks yet, but I disagree. Never has the UAV been this powerful in previous games. I think there are two issues that related to a UAV, when comparing it's effectiveness to MW3 1) Getting one, compared to before... and 2) it's effect once on. 1) As far as getting a UAV, it's a bit harder to get one. At the game start, a person playing Domination in MW3 could put up a UAV with one kill....3 pts. (cap, cap, kill). Now, one needs an extra kill in BO2, 375pts (3.75 kills). Getting a cap, cap and kill only nets a person 350pts, or 3.5 kills (50pts, 200pts, 100pts). So ONE more kill is needed to get a UAV in BO2. Getting two kills in a row is much more difficult than getting just one kill. This means less UAV's. Are more people using UAV's, due to the lack of Specialist? Probably. But with that, Support isn't in BO2. In MW3, a ton of players ran with Support and it was a guaranteed 100% UAV. A blind person could get one. Now? Once a game gets going, past the start in Dom, it's MUCH MUCH harder in BO2 to string together 3 kills in a row, let alone 4 kills (375pts) If anything, I would venture a guess....all things equal and taking into consideration the facts above.......less UAV's are being put up now than before. Hardly anyone is stringing together four kills in a row. At least no where near as many before. But like you said, with Ghost locked so deep in the list, Ghost actually nerfed in it's power....that might be affecting those who rely on it a lot more
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 19, 2012 8:59:53 GMT -5
Iw5k I'd honestly say that getting a uav in dom is less frequent than other game modes because of the infrequency of actually capping objectives (comparatively) and that getting offence and defense kills aren't as common since most players distance themselves from the objective. Maybe demo is harder. Idk I haven't played it. Well...we are in a total agreement. I came to the same conclusion above when I put on my thinking cap. And your point is right, a good one....flags aren't being capped quite as much in Domination these days. More people are head-glitching for kills...AND...more people are just waiting for the reset at the end of the round. Why bother to go cap a flag in the last minute and risk dying, especially if one have a few pts in a row. People are waiting for the new flag reset after halftime. A person will get a free 50pts, and potentially another 200pts with the B flag (although most killwhores avoid B like the plague) And i know for me.....once the game is playing....it is a night and day difference between getting three kills in a row on MW3 (which was pretty easy) versus getting four kills in a row on BO2. I have nothing to base this on, but i would venture a guess there are 30 to 40% less UAV's up in the air now. It just came to me. A big problem right now in Domination. I think the problem is one of a perceived threat MANY, many many many players feel completely naked without their Ghost perk. They are scared. Don't know how to move around without it. So even though the threat to them has been reduced (less UAV's up), they are feeling the effect more.
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sh58
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Post by sh58 on Nov 19, 2012 9:06:24 GMT -5
They aren't a problem.
1)Use ghost (can use the default skorpion class if you haven't spent a prestige token on it or haven't prestiged/got to level 55 yet)
2)launchers.
3)black hat PDA
4) counter UAV
If the spam gets bad, you are guaranteed points to your scorestreak (75 is it?). The only danger is getting shot while taking them out.
All scorestreaks are easily countered except dogs, which luckily are hard to attain.
That being said UAV gives you pretty darn good bang for your buck compared to things like the hunter killer. Maybe I suck but I get quite a lot less than 1 kill per use for that piece of crap
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sh58
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Post by sh58 on Nov 19, 2012 9:09:38 GMT -5
Regarding Dom, I like to play the objective but haven't tried to cap b too often. For me, it's cos I don't know the maps well enough yet. With the b flag there are often tricks to make it easier to cap, or at least knowing all the positions where people can kill you from. Every time I try to cap b I get shot from somewhere unexpected. I guess I could keep trying to cap it and would learn fairly quickly all the spots but it seems a quite painful process
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 19, 2012 9:10:12 GMT -5
That being said UAV gives you pretty darn good bang for your buck compared to things like the hunter killer. Maybe I suck but I get quite a lot less than 1 kill per use for that piece of crap Yep. My hunch the ROI (return on investment) in a Hunter Killer is less than a UAV. A UAV, especially in GW, is almost a 100% lock on getting at least 50 to 70pts. Sometimes more. Right now, I don't think the HK (ie, paper airplane) is getting those points.
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 19, 2012 9:16:32 GMT -5
I think roi is absolutely useless when gauging anything but kills. Just talking from a pure points standpoint. If a UAV gives me an average of 72 pts per use, while a paper airplane gives me 47pts on average......AND when you consider ease of use of a UAV (don't have to move out in the open, etc..), and others can share in the benefits of a it.... It makes the selection of the SStreak a no brainer. s
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 19, 2012 9:24:42 GMT -5
True, but what if that paper airplane kills that guy about to fire a smaw at you while you're planting a bomb? I think the particilar strength of that killstreak is that it gets a kill without your input. I'm still trying to figure out how to manipulate it. You wanna see something funny though? Throw it while under the deck on hijacked it finds its way to the surface. Agree. I have been experimenting with it. I'll use it guard the B flag even when I can't see the flag. Someone goes to cap the flag, just toss the p.a. up in the air and usually it will drop on B. The problem? 1/2 of the time, it goes somewhere else. The other half, someone else kills the people on the flag. The p.a. is then wasted.
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 19, 2012 9:42:24 GMT -5
Look at it this way. Pts scored shouldn't be viewed as a Return on Investment for yourself....but for the TEAM.
A UAV nets a player usually 40 to 50pts. That's the ROI for yourself. But the ROI for the team is absurd. Those 50pts I got, translate into 500pts for other people. Their kills get them 100pts. That's a total of 550pts off of one UAV.
A paper airplane, it's getting at best one kill for you. And that's what? 10 to 20pts? And the team gets nothing with it.
550 > 20 ...if i am seeing this correctly.
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Nov 19, 2012 9:49:08 GMT -5
Look at it this way. Pts scored shouldn't be viewed as a Return on Investment for yourself....but for the TEAM. A UAV nets a player usually 40 to 50pts. That's the ROI for yourself. But the ROI for the team is absurd. Those 50pts I got, translate into 500pts for other people. Their kills get them 100pts. That's a total of 550pts off of one UAV. A paper airplane, it's getting at best one kill for you. And that's what? 10 to 20pts? And the team gets nothing with it. 550 > 20 ...if i am seeing this correctly. The paper airplane can be used to destroy enemy killstreaks, you just have to aim at them.
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sh58
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Post by sh58 on Nov 19, 2012 10:22:21 GMT -5
Not quite right because some kills would have occurred anyway. You would have to count the assist points + the extra kills that were dependant only on he UAV. + I suppose the kills the opposition didn't get because they stopped waking into a trap when they realised there were enemies hiding.
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Post by -3055- on Nov 19, 2012 10:27:41 GMT -5
Guys. Launchers. I got so much exp and already a gold launcher off of those cute uavs.
But they are annoying. Agreed.
Wait a few months. Get used to it. Give people time to get used to it. They might change up their killstreaks (I won't)
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Nov 19, 2012 10:35:14 GMT -5
Hunter Killers are also pretty easy to dodge. I don't have jedi reaction speed and I die probably 40% or less of the time the HK targets me. I think they are going to get worse the more familiar the playerbase is with them.
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 19, 2012 10:40:33 GMT -5
Not quite right because some kills would have occurred anyway. You would have to count the assist points + the extra kills that were dependant only on he UAV. + I suppose the kills the opposition didn't get because they stopped waking into a trap when they realised there were enemies hiding. Ok...fair enough. But you really can't measure that. Yes, some of those kills would have happened anyways, but some wouldn't have. So let's say half? If my UAV gets me six assists, I can attribute three kills to others? So that's 350pts for the team (and that still doesn't take into account the intangibles, like the other team not playing as aggressive as a UAV is up) The paper airplane? At most it's 20pts. 350 team pts > 20pts for the team.
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GoHarvard
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Post by GoHarvard on Nov 19, 2012 12:17:56 GMT -5
6) Scorestreaks: It's easier to get scorestreaks here than it was getting killstreaks in previous games (in some gamemodes). All assists and objectives will give points now. ^1:37 -- Not as easy as those support streaks in MW3. The lesser ScoreStreaks are easy to earn on here, I'll agree with you there. However, I haven't seen many of the Streaks above the DragonFly (w/e it's called) unless they are from a care package.
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 19, 2012 12:38:45 GMT -5
LMFAO ^^
Awesome.
I'm going to slightly disagree with the above though. If one is starting from scratch, you now need four kills for a UAV (375pts in BO2), not three (3pts in MW3) That's considerably harder. Less UAV's and 25% harder to get. On the flip side, one now at least gets some stacking points when you do get one.
And without support in this game, a sizeable part of the CoD community isn't able to spam UAV/C-UAV/AdvUAV anymore. That will also reduce UAV's down considerably.
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Post by Indy_Bones on Nov 19, 2012 12:42:47 GMT -5
And without support in this game, a sizeable part of the CoD community isn't able to spam UAV/C-UAV/AdvUAV anymore. Thank fuck for that as well
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 19, 2012 12:54:51 GMT -5
Hunter Killers are also pretty easy to dodge. I don't have jedi reaction speed and I die probably 40% or less of the time the HK targets me. I think they are going to get worse the more familiar the playerbase is with them. Trophies hard counter them too.
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Post by Falufa on Nov 19, 2012 12:56:07 GMT -5
Switch UAV and CUAV on the score requirement list. Let UAV restore radar against CUAV so it isn't useless against CUAV spam.
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Nov 19, 2012 12:59:43 GMT -5
You guys don't get it. Yes you can shoot down UAVs. But in order to do so, you first have to find it. And, you won't be moving fast enough to stay off radar. And the SMAW isn't suppressed.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 19, 2012 13:01:19 GMT -5
I love the second launcher so much right now... It nets me so many free points (both medal and initial scorestreak building). Combined with scavenger and tactical equipment...it is entirely possible for me to get all of my killstreaks with only one kill.
Smaw works too...but I swear I can hear the tears fall from the enemies eyes when I shoot down two of their "hard earned" UAVs.
P.S. Mousey is right. UAVs and CUAVs are so very easy to find in this game. The are the giant planes that have a big "shoot me" sign emblazoned on the side.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 19, 2012 13:04:15 GMT -5
^^ edited.
I have been using the smaw more recently.
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Nov 19, 2012 13:04:34 GMT -5
it takes less than a second to find uavs in the air You must be a lucky one. UAVs are always behind some building and shit when I look for them. Yes, even on hijacked. And it takes more than a second to lock onto a UAV.
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