hyperion
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Post by hyperion on Dec 15, 2012 19:27:49 GMT -5
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Dec 15, 2012 19:42:28 GMT -5
If this is true it would explain a great deal. This directly contradicts what Vondy said about the matchmaking algorithm ("connection is king"). I'm aware that proximity and ping are very positively correlated. That being the case, though, why bother? Geography means nothing with respect to game quality outside of its influence on connectivity. Sorting by connectivity last (even after "general skill" LOL! asasa is going to get a kick out of that) is pants-on-head retarded.
Ping+bandwidth->proximity->skill makes 2353236% more sense.
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Slick
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Taking the piss
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Post by Slick on Dec 15, 2012 19:45:56 GMT -5
Thanks for the link.
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Post by bm01 on Dec 15, 2012 21:39:52 GMT -5
It's good to have an official confirmation that skill is used by the matchmaking system, even outside of league matches. I mean, Twitter is nice and all, but still. I'd like to know which values are used however. Level? SpM? Anything else?
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wittyscorpion
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All warfare is based on deception.
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 15, 2012 22:03:48 GMT -5
First of all, thanks a lot to OP for sharing the link. It's good to have an official confirmation that skill is used by the matchmaking system, even outside of league matches. I mean, Twitter is nice and all, but still. I'd like to know which values are used however. Level? SpM? Anything else? I seriously doubt that they will release very detailed information in this regard. Too much information would provoke more practices of "playing" the system. That said, it is my speculation that SPM is the dominant factor for measuring skills, due to the following reasons: 1) Although not ideal, SPM is a decent indicator; 2) SPM works across game modes; 3) When checking "lobby scoreboard", the players are sorted by SPM by default; 4) When playing TDM solo, I check lobby scoreboard all the time: my TDM-specific KDR is ~ 1.5, usually the highest in the lobby; my TDM-specific SPM on the other hand is ~150, usually in the bottom 3 of the lobby. SPM has gotta be a much more important factor in matchmaking. Because otherwise I should have been matched against much stronger opponents and in no way possible to get a KDR that is significantly bigger than 1.0.
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GoHarvard
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It's not that serious.
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Post by GoHarvard on Dec 16, 2012 0:32:02 GMT -5
TDM KDR is 2.16 and SPM is 269. I'm pretty much always at the top of the lobby leaderboard and rarely get matched up with people above 2.0 or even above 1.5.
9 out of every 10 games everyone else in the lobby is in the 0.8 to 1.2 KDR range. SPM numbers vary too much, so that can't be part of the criteria either. If there is SBMM, it doesn't work well.
This is how it is when I play solo or with a group.
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Dec 16, 2012 5:43:52 GMT -5
TDM KDR is 2.16 and SPM is 269. I'm pretty much always at the top of the lobby leaderboard and rarely get matched up with people above 2.0 or even above 1.5. 9 out of every 10 games everyone else in the lobby is in the 0.8 to 1.2 KDR range. SPM numbers vary too much, so that can't be part of the criteria either. If there is SBMM, it doesn't work well. This is how it is when I play solo or with a group. You are just lucky as f uck then.
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Dec 16, 2012 7:19:18 GMT -5
TDM KDR is 2.16 and SPM is 269. I'm pretty much always at the top of the lobby leaderboard and rarely get matched up with people above 2.0 or even above 1.5. 9 out of every 10 games everyone else in the lobby is in the 0.8 to 1.2 KDR range. SPM numbers vary too much, so that can't be part of the criteria either. If there is SBMM, it doesn't work well. This is how it is when I play solo or with a group. My experience is pretty similar to his. The way it seems to work in BOII is your average opponent is more likely to be competent than in previous games, but that's about it since 1.2-3 or so seems to be the most common upper-quadrant KDR range per lobby. It makes sense, really; if the game is prioritizing connection and your stats or whatever are significantly above average, the game's going to have a harder time finding similarly-skilled players that it can reasonably shove into your lobby.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Dec 16, 2012 8:16:54 GMT -5
...the game isn't prioritizing connection, though (according to the article). It's prioritizing proximity. Related but definitely not the same.
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Dec 16, 2012 8:26:13 GMT -5
True and an important distinction, although my point is the same. The matchmaking attempts to find close-by lobbies presumably because the ping's lower (even though it'd make more sense to me to just search by ping in the first place...), which drastically reduces the skill pool for the system to draw on. What's left is the best of a limited selection.
This is probably why many people feel Public matches are more difficult than League (outside of the top tier)... less players means less effective SBMM.
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tiesieman
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mental lagger
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Post by tiesieman on Dec 16, 2012 8:29:01 GMT -5
True and an important distinction, although my point is the same. The matchmaking attempts to find close-by lobbies presumably because the ping's lower (even though it'd make more sense to me to just search by ping in the first place...), which drastically reduces the skill pool for the system to draw on. What's left is the best of a limited selection. Don't get this at all either. Not only is location a fool-proof method of finding good pings (I'd say the actual game shows that) but it seems a hell of a lot more complicated on top of that
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Dec 16, 2012 8:34:13 GMT -5
True and an important distinction, although my point is the same. The matchmaking attempts to find close-by lobbies presumably because the ping's lower (even though it'd make more sense to me to just search by ping in the first place...), which drastically reduces the skill pool for the system to draw on. What's left is the best of a limited selection. Don't get this at all either. Not only is location a fool-proof method of finding good pings (I'd say the actual game shows that) but it seems a hell of a lot more complicated on top of that It's a good method, but not perfect. You still get hosts with bandwidth problems (sister on netflix at the same time, whatever) and your tinfoil hats that mask their locations out of paranoia (I've been matched with people in Tokyo. WTF). Simply sorting by connection seems simpler, and would remove those corner cases.
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bluespark
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Post by bluespark on Dec 16, 2012 10:19:09 GMT -5
Not only is location a fool-proof method of finding good pings [...] You still get hosts with bandwidth problems (sister on netflix at the same time, whatever) and your tinfoil hats that mask their locations out of paranoia (I've been matched with people in Tokyo. WTF). Simply sorting by connection seems simpler, and would remove those corner cases. This. Plus I would imagine sorting by location taking much less time than sorting by connection. Which is probably why it's the first step - to eliminate a multitude of options in the matter of half a second. If it were connection first, we might be waiting 5x or 10x as long to find a match.
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GoHarvard
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It's not that serious.
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Post by GoHarvard on Dec 16, 2012 13:51:21 GMT -5
Right. They are probably more concerned with speed of MM vs quality of MM. If they did a better job at evening things out with the 'lag compensation sorcery' I'd have no problems with that.
I guess they geolocate us by IP to figure out what region to group us in.
I'm in CA and sometimes play with a buddy in GA. Even if I'm party leader MM can end up using him for search criteria. In either case it gets wacky afterward. If we get a GA area lobby that is looking for players...because I'm from CA it can start filling up the lobby with CA players. This sucks for them because they have a high ping to the host. I see this happen every day, the lobby/match becomes mixed with east and west players.
It's also happened when a friend from the UK joined mid-match. Once the match ended a few players left and new UK players were placed in it. This happened on MW3 and BO1 also.
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tiesieman
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mental lagger
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Post by tiesieman on Dec 16, 2012 14:02:45 GMT -5
So I saw mr vonderhaar put something along these lines on twitter "I don't really care that you have 30ms ping to a speedtest server across the street"
but that's essentially what their whole "connection > all" thing comes down to. finding a host as close to your street as possible.
I really hate matchmaking systems :/
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Dec 16, 2012 14:23:18 GMT -5
So I saw mr vonderhaar put something along these lines on twitter "I don't really care that you have 30ms ping to a speedtest server across the street" but that's essentially what their whole "connection > all" thing comes down to. finding a host as close to your street as possible. I really hate matchmaking systems :/ Vondy has said on multiple occasions that connection quality was the most heavily weighted factor in the search algorithm. Either he's playing damage control or we have another case of the right hand not knowing what the left is doing.
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Dec 16, 2012 14:26:29 GMT -5
Yeah, proximity being the first factor is probably an effort to keep matchmaking times down.
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Dec 16, 2012 14:37:41 GMT -5
The skill filtering shouldn't be any surprise... Before resetting and manipating my skill stats I was a 1.5 KD and CONSTANTLY got matched up with parties full of 1.7 to 2.5 KD players. I got sick of it and began commuting chronic suicide every game, now I always get lobbies full of bads, and the game is a lot more fun. Just gotta remember to get a few of those 0-100 games every day
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Slick
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Taking the piss
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Post by Slick on Dec 16, 2012 14:40:16 GMT -5
So I saw mr vonderhaar put something along these lines on twitter "I don't really care that you have 30ms ping to a speedtest server across the street" but that's essentially what their whole "connection > all" thing comes down to. finding a host as close to your street as possible. I really hate matchmaking systems :/ Vondy has said on multiple occasions that connection quality was the most heavily weighted factor in the search algorithm. Either he's playing damage control or we have another case of the right hand not knowing what the left is doing. I love a good Bush moment.
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Post by brutalonslaught on Dec 16, 2012 16:45:09 GMT -5
People with a ping of more than 15 shouldn't be allowed to play online and be told to play the campaign.
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Slick
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Taking the piss
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Post by Slick on Dec 16, 2012 16:46:47 GMT -5
People with a ping of more than 15 shouldn't be allowed to play online and be told to play the campaign. Don't feed the obvious troll.
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Post by brutalonslaught on Dec 16, 2012 16:49:05 GMT -5
What's wrong with that? The higher your ping over 15 the lower percentage of skill required to play the game. I.e. a ping of 30 means 5% skill, 95% connection.
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Slick
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Taking the piss
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Post by Slick on Dec 16, 2012 18:30:05 GMT -5
I guess that means 99.8% of call of duty games are entirely based on luck, the .2% remaining are games played at lan events. My first hop from the modem is about 10 ms, not everyone is blessed with a FTTH connection, and won't be for probably 60+ years from now. Also, until everyone is on fiber, this restriction means you would have a very small if not non-existent pool of players to play. This is not a practical means of matchmaking, and you wouldn't be able to play with most of your established friends.
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asasa
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fuck
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Post by asasa on Dec 16, 2012 21:03:31 GMT -5
People with a ping of more than 15 shouldn't be allowed to play online and be told to play the campaign. lol 15ms. Good luck with that one. Also, SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST SKMM DOES NOT EXIST
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GoHarvard
True Bro
It's not that serious.
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Post by GoHarvard on Dec 17, 2012 0:34:10 GMT -5
The skill filtering shouldn't be any surprise... Before resetting and manipating my skill stats I was a 1.5 KD and CONSTANTLY got matched up with parties full of 1.7 to 2.5 KD players. I got sick of it and began commuting chronic suicide every game, now I always get lobbies full of bads, and the game is a lot more fun. Just gotta remember to get a few of those 0-100 games every day ...
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 17, 2012 8:24:49 GMT -5
Not one single person asked the only question that needed to be asked, in regards to the article's section on.............
"Filter by broad skill range. "
Has this existed in prior Treyarch and IW games? And to what extent?
If so, and it has existed to roughly the same extent...then all these people making excuses for doing worse, and throwing games to they can play easier people, has reached new heights of absurdity.
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Dec 17, 2012 8:31:25 GMT -5
Huh. My KD is around 1.4 and my W/L is 0.61, and I get matched with baddies on both teams, one swell guy on the other team and the occasional swell buddy on my team, which led to some pretty ridiculous stomping such as 100-24 KC game.
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Post by otisman666 on Dec 17, 2012 11:43:47 GMT -5
First off, thanks for the link. Interesting read.
I was always under the impression that the SBMM was based on w/l. This makes sense to me at least. I have a low SPM and a dismal k/d, but I rarely lose games (Hardpoint, HQ, Dom). Yet ever lobby I enter, I am always on the bottom of the leaderboard (and I mean EVERY LOBBY).
Finally, I wonder what they use to determine "region"? I am almost positive they are pulling it from the IPs, which I don't think often times these are correct. Not all IPs assign Static IPs, so their lists are constantly changing.
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asasa
True Bro
fuck
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Post by asasa on Dec 17, 2012 11:54:23 GMT -5
Not one single person asked the only question that needed to be asked, in regards to the article's section on............. "Filter by broad skill range. "Has this existed in prior Treyarch and IW games? And to what extent? If so, and it has existed to roughly the same extent...then all these people making excuses for doing worse, and throwing games to they can play easier people, has reached new heights of absurdity. That has been asked before. Of course we can't get an answer, but the backlash and responses from David pretty clearly indicate that it has been changed. What is absurd is that you continue to try to downplay this.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Dec 17, 2012 11:55:24 GMT -5
What is absurd is that you continue to try to downplay this. Your avatar is absurd. The world is not going to end in 2012.
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