mdnl
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Post by mdnl on Aug 9, 2010 11:59:55 GMT -5
Looks smooth and visually great but man.. explosive crossbows in MP?
Knife launcher - seriously?
Remote control kamikaze car - seriously?
Probably going to be another game designed for ADHD kiddys...
Let's get back to gunplay....
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Den
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Post by Den on Aug 9, 2010 12:18:23 GMT -5
Things that aren't generic hitscans which will lend to far more diverse encounters and tactics - seriously?
YES, SERIOUSLY.
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mdnl
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Post by mdnl on Aug 9, 2010 12:19:44 GMT -5
You might think like that but all I see is frustrations and smashed controllers.
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Aug 9, 2010 12:28:59 GMT -5
I gotta say, the game looks a lot "cleaner" than MW2.
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Den
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Post by Den on Aug 9, 2010 12:38:09 GMT -5
Crossbow = Semtex Spetsnaz Knife = Throwing Knife RC4 = Indoor Predator Missile
Two of those need direct line of sight just like a gun. The other one is apparently a Killstreak useful in the mostly indoors or covered environments that Predators are near useless for.
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Aug 9, 2010 12:54:39 GMT -5
What is that replying to?
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Den
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Post by Den on Aug 9, 2010 13:22:23 GMT -5
What is that replying to? "Knifegun - seriously? RC bomb - seriously? Exploding arrow - seriously?"
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mdnl
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Post by mdnl on Aug 9, 2010 13:30:01 GMT -5
My point was that the games these days are just becoming gimmicks.
All that stuff might be fun for a second but it will becoming really annoying.
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Post by Aphoristic on Aug 9, 2010 13:37:23 GMT -5
It's not a gimmick, it's variety. Guns aren't the only weapons in wars (sure some of it isn't typically seen but who cares?)
Can't wait for the full reveal... Will vehicles return?
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Post by mrboo2501 on Aug 9, 2010 13:38:33 GMT -5
Re RC, it's too early to get irked by it. We don't know what the stipulations are for it (e.g., timer length). Personally, I'm very much interested - I've been very pleased with the COD franchise...I've gotten tons of value to dollar return on COD4, WaW and MW2 (of course I haven't really calculated it). And kudos to COD for attempting to evolve with every next game edition - I'd rather have that than a more static title franchise. Can't wait for the full reveal... Will vehicles return? I thought heard that vehicles were back in. I also heard that kills earned from kill streaks no longer count towards your next kill streak count.
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Post by Aphoristic on Aug 9, 2010 13:48:53 GMT -5
Okay number should be right this time:
The first gun shown ADS in .2 seconds (6 frames at 30 FPS means 1/5 of a second). Definitely not Sleight of Hand Pro unless the gun takes .4 seconds to aim which would put it up with LMGs and Snipers...
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Post by fenrir on Aug 9, 2010 13:54:03 GMT -5
Hey, I'll give them a chance. I'm with the other bros. MW, WaW, and MW2 have issues. That hasn't stopped me from putting an ungodly amount of time in them having fun with my buds. Variety is good. If anything, that was a problem that I had with WaW. With the exception of the M1 Garand and PTRS, all the sniper rifles were the same (excluding tiny fire rate differences, iron sites, and in-scope recoil animations). So were the SVT, Gewher (spelling?), and M1 Carbine. So were the Thompson and Type 100.
I like shooting dude as much as the next guy (sniper by choice), but I'm going to spend the next 12 months playing BO. Variety gives me something else to play with, and (more importantly) it makes me constantly adapt to the changing strategies of my opponents. That's fun to me, even if I don't use a lot of the new toys.
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Post by red on Aug 9, 2010 14:11:57 GMT -5
There's a couple of things I noticed.
- The first gun looks like a 552 SIG Commando with Bling (RDS and Silencer) - That gun also has the person clan tag inscribed on the gun - The RDS has a smiley face - MP5K with Suppressor - Camera Spike may be a perk and not a killstreak as there is no kills in the match - Explosive Bow - Akimbo knifes, one being a ballistic knife. Might take secondary weapon slot - An AUG, not sure which one, but the little picture does not have a foregrip - Fully Auto FAMAS - RC Bomb car - Guy has a RPG on his back (0:59) - Sniper Rifle looks like a Arctic Warefare (L96 Sniper Rifle) - Look at the snipers UAV, some sort of motion sensor?
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Post by Aphoristic on Aug 9, 2010 14:20:54 GMT -5
ADS Times (estimated, to the nearest .05): Gun 1 (RDS, SMG?) - .2 seconds Gun 2 - .25 seconds Crossbow - .25 seconds Ballistic Knife - .1 seconds (maybe .05, it's fast) Gun 3 (FAMAS?) - .25 seconds Gun 4 - .25 seconds Gun 5 - .25 seconds Sniper - .4 seconds
The Crossbow and Ballistic Knife appear to be launchers, both seeming to require you to ADS to fire them.
The first gun appears to be an SMG, with the quicker ADS time.
Edit: Turns out all the guns are the same one just customized to look different (except the obvious one like the FAMAS). The only difference is that the Red Dot Sight appears to have made ADS faster. This actually makes Red Dot Sights somewhat more useful since irons are just as accurate...
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acidsnow
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Post by acidsnow on Aug 9, 2010 17:18:41 GMT -5
So far the game looks good. ...But it looks JUST like MW2, but with new swag. My hype for BOps is probably 1/5th what it was for MW2. Treyarch doesn't know how to innovate at all, their only purpose is to imitate. Too bad IW is dead Treyarch had one chance to prove that they are a good developer, and the failed hard with W@W (total MW1 clone), and it looks like they're taking the same road with BOps.
Treyarch, if you're reading this, just remember that most of us gamers don't respect you; we just use you for your [semi-original] games - just as you use us for our cash.
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mdnl
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Post by mdnl on Aug 9, 2010 17:24:01 GMT -5
So far the game looks good. ...But it looks JUST like MW2, but with new swag. My hype for BOps is probably 1/5th what it was for MW2. Treyarch doesn't know how to innovate at all, their only purpose is to imitate. Too bad IW is dead Treyarch had one chance to prove that they are a good developer, and the failed hard with W@W (total MW1 clone), and it looks like they're taking the same road with BOps. I can't see how WAW was anything like MW1.
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acidsnow
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Post by acidsnow on Aug 9, 2010 17:32:01 GMT -5
I can't see how WAW was anything like MW1. Then you didn't invest enough time into MW1 (or maybe W@W), or maybe you aren't very observant. ...There was little difference between W@W's design philosophy and MW1's. And claiming otherwise is fail, because even though they tried to bring in vehicles and other design decisions, they failed to deliver anything of quality and substance (other than dogs) - tanks were imba, and the bolt actions' were garbage; the only improvement over MW1 was in the level designs (and just barely). Everything else was carbon copy, even in the single player they copied 80% of MW2's ideas - and just regurgitated it back to gamers.
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mdnl
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Post by mdnl on Aug 9, 2010 17:44:08 GMT -5
Because you don't like the bolt actions they are fail?
My most used guns where probably the unscoped bolt actions...
The games where not as similar as you are making out, both had good points and bad points.
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Post by chyros on Aug 9, 2010 17:59:07 GMT -5
So far, the gun modells (stupid word filter) suck, the gun sounds suck, the reloads that they didn't lift off of MW2 suck, the voice actors suck, the killstreaks I saw sucked (seriously, a killstreak that makes kills at three kills? Care package again? Seriously? Stupid missile? Useless camera?), 40-30 assault rifles with no recoil AGAIN - SERIOUSLY?! Everything I saw in the vid utterly disgusted me. In fact, it made me sick to my stomach.
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Post by raraavis on Aug 9, 2010 18:19:11 GMT -5
Den put it as succinctly as possible.
While skepticism is prudent, it seems Treyarch's strategy has matured and their efforts will mean a more subtle game because it takes some creative risks, risks that they didn't take to the greatest degree in World at War and that fact ultimately kept it as an average game rather than transforming it to an exceptional one. To put it in meta-game terms, if you have two evenly matched opponents in a contest, the ones who learns from their mistakes and transforms them into opportunities (or at least minimizes his weakness) will succeed--from what we've seen so far, Treyarch is consciously grooming itself to be that player. Given that Call of Duty gameplay falls at the intersection player perk, weapon and the ability to read the map and launch or counter kill streaks, the inclusion of weapons that help navigate the indestructible and relatively mundane environments in a new and exciting way seems promising.
:0-:16: As mentioned, bling commando in TDM mode creeps up on enemy player approaching a "spike cam"--notice the camera view replaces the map and that the player character who deployed the camera is not illuminated. Notice the exit wound is displayed in the camera view as well. This reinforces the inclusion of cold-blood or UAV jammer. Call signs return but are, unfortunately, more muted in tone and color. The rank icons for 1-70 appear to be identical to MW2. The red dot sight seems restrictive and awful like an Tar 21 RDS unlike the default, Famas-like rail sights that appear later.
There's some glass breaking almost as soon as he opens fire at :10 that I don't know how to interpret.
:17-:30 We see the RC car ("RC Bomb ready for launch") replaces UAV as third kill streak--could this mean the omission of UAV altogether in favor of the dual scouting and demolition functionality of the RC car and requiring more finesse with kill streaks in general? The commando returns and we see that weapons boast fuller, more universal camo than in MW2, virtually all over the weapon, including coloring the sights. The crossbow is the player's secondary here but doesn't seem to list the total ammo count, it simply shows 1/1 even after reload. Moreover, the sightless crossbow like the RDS commando seem to have absolutely no magnification in ADS. Care package returns at four kills and five appears to be a reworked predator ("Archangel ready for arming") that reappears in the penultimate scene.
The most important insight here is that the map now has a grid based overlay with pairings of letters and numbers--instead of calling out "sniper ridge" on Afghan, you can just say C3 for example.
My impression from the first two scenes is that reloads take longer and that reload cancel may be less practical as the ammo counter doesn't change until what seems like very late into the reload animation.
:30-:34 This episode contains a number of subtle touches, starting with the ranged attack of the ballistic knife followed by the quick followup into the back stab and their two associated bonuses "Skewer +50" and "Backstabber +50". Notice how the knife is sheathed only after the second attack and how the two different attacks also have two different icons in the killfeed. Compare tis to how default knife and tac-knife both displayed the same kill icon in MW2. The dead players drop an MP5 and an AUG but these have been confirmed elsewhere.
:35-:42 We see an automatic Famas with erratic recoil. Thus far we've seen what look like stun or flash grenades and Semtex but here we see a frag and what may be a smoke grenade or C4. The dimensions of the care package and its fall behavior seem the same but the helicopter delivering them is now some species of Chinook flying rather slowly rather than the impossibly fast Sparrow of MW2--could this mean the helicopter has a small window for offense or utility beyond the drop? Also notice the icon denoting the package doesn't appear even after 1-3 seconds.
:42-:52 Arctic commando shows off default irons. The player seems to throw a Semtex and the killfeed shows a generic skull suggesting an environmental or indirect kill. I suspect the helicopter firing first from the right and then the glass ceiling are the vital point suggesting either improved AI and aggressive behavior from the single prop helicopter or a player controlled one with more leverage as far as positioning and orientation. Its impossible to tell if the player has god mode via console, I think it unlikely, but the helicopter either inflicts virtually no meaningful damage or the intermediate damage states have no UI or some mix of the two.
:55-:59 RC car takes two corners, through glass and detonates, seems to have a subtle boost effect like a aerial predator. The curious part is the Archangel missile that is already in flight when the RC car initially comes into focus--it could be the game's answer to an aerial predator as we see it make two sharp turns around corners and even continues off screen without detonating even after the RC car has reached its victims. Could is suggest kill streak synergies? Both kill streaks suggest there will be nowhere to hide as they not only navigate rooms with ease but with speed and accuracy.
1:00-1:06 Three SOG battle in another view of the map we see earlier with the missile launch--the two players in the foreground have distinct backpacks very suggestive of OMA. We see the explosive aftermath of a strafing run kill streak with relatively enormous almost volumetric explosions and smoke--Modern Warfare's precision air strike is by comparison, effervescent.
1:06-1:11 SV98 head shot followed by the third shot of the Archangel with its now familiar fluid turning behavior.
1:12-1:23 The big reveal is native capture and light editing support and that, presumably, has transformed a nine minute game into the 1:25 clip we've just watched. If this feature actually is part of the PC I'll be surprised as we are after all watching Xbox play and control prompts to hide HUD, record, capture screenshots and accelerate footage. Although there is a tease of a full multiplayer reveal September 1st, when finalizing the promotion we are shown the final details of the clip and it declares "FREE FOR ALL on Launch Aug 5 2010 8:51".
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Post by thefuzzychickensz on Aug 9, 2010 19:01:54 GMT -5
Why are they always giving the FAMAS these bogus sights?
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Post by Aphoristic on Aug 9, 2010 19:30:48 GMT -5
I decided to go frame by frame to learn a bit about the guns...
Commando (Gun Shown with many customized versions) Fire Rate: .085 Rate of Fire: 700 Shots to Kill: 5, however it may just be lag and only be 4. ADS Time: .25 (.2 RDS) Clip: 30 (90 Reserve, Unknown Max Reserve) Normal Reload Speed: 2.5 (1.9 Cancel) Empty Reload Speed: Unknown
FAMAS (Gun shown that looks like the FAMAS) Fire Rate: .06 Rate of Fire: 1000 Shots to Kill: 4 or 5, it's very hard to tell with the recoil. ADS Time: .25 Clip: 30 (Unknown Reserves, but at least 181 max) Normal Reload Speed: Unkown Empty Reload Speed: Unknown (2.2 Cancel)
Sniper (Only Sniper shown) Fire Rate: 1.2 Rate of Fire: 50 Shots to Kill 1 (headshot, upper chest?) Clip: 5 (15 Reserve, Unknown Max Reserve) Reload Speeds: Unknown (Clip Reload)
Ballistic Knife ADS Time: .15 (May just be a delay between shoting and firing, not ADS) Shots to Kill: 1 Clip: 1 (1 Reserve, Unknown Max Reserve) Reload Speed: ~1.6 (.45 Cancel)
Crossbow Explosive Tip Explosion Delay: 1.5 Shots to Kill: 1 ADS Time: .25 Clip 1 (1 Reserve, Unknown Max Reserve) Reload Speed: Unknown (2.45 Cancel)
Going Frame by Frame can teach you a lot... Only gun I'm not sure of is the Ballistic Knife's uncanceled reload as it cuts right where you think it would end... Also for comparisons sake. The RoF of the Commando appears to be the same as the original AK-47 in CoD4 or the RPD in CoD4, and the FAMAS seems to be similar to the Vector in MW2's RoF.
The Sniper appears to have the slowest rate of fire of any sniper in CoD. The FAMAS appears to kill much faster than the Commando, but has definitely more recoil. And lastly the appears to decrease the ADS time.
Things change, so there's no guarantee these numbers are final, nor that my accuracy is perfect.
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Post by snakex on Aug 9, 2010 23:16:25 GMT -5
perhaps no more misaligned red dots?
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Post by Aphoristic on Aug 9, 2010 23:41:18 GMT -5
We can hope no more misaligned anything. It's a rather cheap way to balance a gun IMO.
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Post by dconnorz on Aug 9, 2010 23:49:19 GMT -5
Where are the flamethrower shotguns I was promised?
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acidsnow
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Post by acidsnow on Aug 10, 2010 3:44:11 GMT -5
If the RiotShield and BlastShield aren't in BOps, I'm gunna be a sad panda I can play for hours as a Rioter... In fact, I racked in 4 sold hours yesterday: it's just too satisfying to dominate as a Rioter.
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xeros612
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Post by xeros612 on Aug 10, 2010 17:21:54 GMT -5
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Post by das147369 on Aug 10, 2010 20:15:53 GMT -5
From what I've seen online the game takes place in 1968, in fact Treyarch is not supposed to take the setting past the Viet Nam era or else it would be part of the Modern Warfare brand and a violation of the agreement with Activision.
And yet here we see the Steyr AUG, the SPAS 12(other vid), and the FAMAS??? All were in MW2, and all of which were not even in production until later than 1977 and thus would barely even be on the drawing board in 1968?
Yes Spec Ops get access to prototypes and what not but this is about as realistic as playing a WW2 game where the Allies are armed with thermal scoped M4 carbines and the Axis is shooting at you with laser sighted G36s while F35s and Apache gunships fly around.
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Den
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Post by Den on Aug 10, 2010 20:39:45 GMT -5
Black Ops takes place over several decades, starting from 1968, jumping to 1980 and on.
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Post by fenrir on Aug 10, 2010 20:58:09 GMT -5
I'm curious to see how they handle that with multiplayer. I mean, it's obvious that OpFor isn't going to have stealth bombers, but we go along with it. Not sure how they can do a modern arsenal in the 60s, but hell, I'll give it a go.
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