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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2014 13:20:43 GMT -5
Hi, I'm Ray Bingo. Have you checked out my bait shop?
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 11, 2014 13:24:16 GMT -5
I dunno about that. Console market is huge and they mostly don't really know or care what's going on with PC which is not as true of the PC market, though I think there's also more PC gamers with consoles than there are console gamers that play PC games. Having said that I think Destiny appeals more to Halo and Borderlands fans than CoD. But if that game is only on one console (PS or XB, it doesn't matter) it is pigeonholing itself. Take me for example: I don't have, and have no plans to get, an XBox One so I could give a shit about anything Titanfall related. It could be the best thing to the FPS genre since whatever... it could revolutionize gaming as we know it... it won't make me shell out 500 to buy a second system. Titanfall is totally irrelevant to me. All because it's console exclusive to the Xbox. Now, if it came out on PS4, I would have bought it already. But it isn't, so unless I'm at a friends house and they have it, I'll never play it. Any game franchise that wants to dethrone the COD franchise has to be available to all systems, nextgen and current gen and handheld. You have to keep in mind, the next title holder doesn't necessarily have to beat 20 million in sales. It is quite possible that no title does mega numbers next fall. Maybe CoD-AW comes out and only does 2 million on all systems (in 24hrs), rather than the 6 to 8 with MW3/BO2. Maybe it gets a muted reaction from the fans. That would only put it on pace to hit like 4-5 million in 2014.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jun 11, 2014 13:33:38 GMT -5
If the throne is determined by the number of competitive MP players playing the game, I think that CoD AW should still be able to win. Destiny is trying to blend story, exploration, co-op and competitive MP to maximize its attraction to all shooter fans, which CoD AW crowd is dominated by competitive MP. Also, CoD's MP is going to be much more attractive to new shooter players than Destiny, which is still trying to make the gun play part largely skill based.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jun 11, 2014 13:40:47 GMT -5
But if that game is only on one console (PS or XB, it doesn't matter) it is pigeonholing itself. Take me for example: I don't have, and have no plans to get, an XBox One so I could give a shit about anything Titanfall related. It could be the best thing to the FPS genre since whatever... it could revolutionize gaming as we know it... it won't make me shell out 500 to buy a second system. Titanfall is totally irrelevant to me. All because it's console exclusive to the Xbox. Now, if it came out on PS4, I would have bought it already. But it isn't, so unless I'm at a friends house and they have it, I'll never play it. Any game franchise that wants to dethrone the COD franchise has to be available to all systems, nextgen and current gen and handheld. You have to keep in mind, the next title holder doesn't necessarily have to beat 20 million in sales. It is quite possible that no title does mega numbers next fall. Maybe CoD-AW comes out and only does 2 million on all systems (in 24hrs), rather than the 6 to 8 with MW3/BO2. Maybe it gets a muted reaction from the fans. That would only put it on pace to hit like 4-5 million in 2014. COD could release a 4 bit, piss poor super NES-esque sound, graphics, and playability staring two monkeys throwing poop at one another, and it will still sell 10+ million under the COD banner (COD: Primate Warfare) The competition isn't against COD, rather, it is COD... as in Which of the 3 developers of COD games will produce the best selling COD game? Titanfall, BF, etc etc are all fighting for the scraps from IW, Sledgehammer, and 3Arc's table
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jun 11, 2014 13:47:32 GMT -5
Just for the record, mannon did a misquote above. The sentence highlighted is not my words Sorry your quote was nested and I didn't delete enough, Fixed it.
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 11, 2014 13:49:58 GMT -5
Marco,
I hear you.
I just think this year, we might see a real drop. There is CoD fatigue out there. Activision knows it. The developers know it. If you are currently playing the game, you see it in the player base. The 'future' aspect thing might revitalize the franchise, but I think there is a better chance of it killing interest (60/40?) Enough to see the 'wait in line' shit not happen next November. Like start there. And from there, if that doesn't happen, the urgency to buy isn't there. And then like only 1 to 2 million in the first 24 hours, rather than 8 million. That happens, the next game isn't hitting 15 million. It might drop below.
if the game sales trend has gone from 30, to 25 to 21 million units sold....why not continue dropping to say ten million?
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jun 11, 2014 13:54:22 GMT -5
I definitely expect to see some shifts and some real competition to CoD in the next few years. Especially with the next gen consoles out as they open up room where everyone is trying to out nextgen each other, and CoD hasn't been innovative as a franchise for a while, (not that it's needed to be).
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wings
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Post by wings on Jun 11, 2014 13:57:30 GMT -5
Marco, I hear you. I just think this year, we might see a real drop. There is CoD fatigue out there. Activision knows it. The developers know it. If you are currently playing the game, you see it in the player base. The 'future' aspect thing might revitalize the franchise, but I think there is a better chance of it killing interest (60/40?) Enough to see the 'wait in line' shit not happen next November. Like start there. And from there, if that doesn't happen, the urgency to buy isn't there. And then like only 1 to 2 million in the first 24 hours, rather than 8 million. That happens, the next game isn't hitting 15 million. It might drop below. if the game sales trend has gone from 30, to 25 to 21 million units sold....why not continue dropping to say ten million? Yeah I saw this on the Activision forums. 50,000 people used to post there, now it's just a ghost town.
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 11, 2014 14:00:37 GMT -5
I definitely expect to see some shifts and some real competition to CoD in the next few years. Especially with the next gen consoles out as they open up room where everyone is trying to out nextgen each other, and CoD hasn't been innovative as a franchise for a while, (not that it's needed to be). Speaking for myself, I don't want CoD to make drastic leaps to become a new game like Halo or Borderlands. I love the core formula it uses. Very grounded, reality (for a video game) based FPS squad combat, in which you can play with friends. Add new tweaks every year, mix it up a little, add new maps, I am happy. What is tiring me of the game is the that the developers are still relying on the same sales 'hook' game after game. Make thirty different game modes but in reality have a not-so-secret real meta game going on, ..... the "Snipe, KD & Quit (if you have a bad game) Game" It just gets exhausting. I suppose that's what makes the game popular, but with each CoD game cycle, I am getting bored faster with it.
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 11, 2014 14:02:53 GMT -5
Marco, I hear you. I just think this year, we might see a real drop. There is CoD fatigue out there. Activision knows it. The developers know it. If you are currently playing the game, you see it in the player base. The 'future' aspect thing might revitalize the franchise, but I think there is a better chance of it killing interest (60/40?) Enough to see the 'wait in line' shit not happen next November. Like start there. And from there, if that doesn't happen, the urgency to buy isn't there. And then like only 1 to 2 million in the first 24 hours, rather than 8 million. That happens, the next game isn't hitting 15 million. It might drop below. if the game sales trend has gone from 30, to 25 to 21 million units sold....why not continue dropping to say ten million? Yeah I saw this on the Activision forums. 50,000 people used to post there, now it's just a ghost town. the only real material thing that is keeping CoD Ghosts alive right now is Clan Wars. Clan Wars has to account for over half, if not more, of those people who are still playing. And Beachhead studios is doing their best to kill that (I should be fair, they do try very hard and have open communications, but their efforts continually seem misplaced)
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jun 11, 2014 14:05:53 GMT -5
Marco, I hear you. I just think this year, we might see a real drop. There is CoD fatigue out there. Activision knows it. The developers know it. If you are currently playing the game, you see it in the player base. The 'future' aspect thing might revitalize the franchise, but I think there is a better chance of it killing interest (60/40?) Enough to see the 'wait in line' shit not happen next November. Like start there. And from there, if that doesn't happen, the urgency to buy isn't there. And then like only 1 to 2 million in the first 24 hours, rather than 8 million. That happens, the next game isn't hitting 15 million. It might drop below. if the game sales trend has gone from 30, to 25 to 21 million units sold....why not continue dropping to say ten million? Because there's no precedent for that. Can you think of any annualized title that saw a sales decrease of over 50% from one year to the next? As for CoD fatigue, perhaps that applies somewhat to the multiplayer, but it's unlikely that it extends to the single player. They probably drive close to 10 million sales on the single player alone.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jun 11, 2014 14:08:39 GMT -5
Yeah I saw this on the Activision forums. 50,000 people used to post there, now it's just a ghost town. the only real material thing that is keeping CoD Ghosts alive right now is Clan Wars. Clan Wars has to account for over half, if not more, of those people who are still playing. And Beachhead studios is doing their best to kill that (I should be fair, they do try very hard and have open communications, but their efforts continually seem misplaced) What? Clan Wars takes place once every 2-3 weeks. Are you saying that half of the people playing only do so during Clan Wars?
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jun 11, 2014 14:14:37 GMT -5
Marco, I hear you. I just think this year, we might see a real drop. There is CoD fatigue out there. Activision knows it. The developers know it. If you are currently playing the game, you see it in the player base. The 'future' aspect thing might revitalize the franchise, but I think there is a better chance of it killing interest (60/40?) Enough to see the 'wait in line' shit not happen next November. Like start there. And from there, if that doesn't happen, the urgency to buy isn't there. And then like only 1 to 2 million in the first 24 hours, rather than 8 million. That happens, the next game isn't hitting 15 million. It might drop below. if the game sales trend has gone from 30, to 25 to 21 million units sold....why not continue dropping to say ten million? I don't actually think there'll be a drop... or at least that big of a drop 1. Nextgen systems with nextgen graphics with nextgen sound will allow developers to create beautiful, faster, intense games that we haven't seen yet. This alone will sell games 2. I think the COD fatigue was because, and be honest: they were getting to be the same old game, just hacked up and tossed with a new sauce. But with AW, COD has the actual chance to push the envelope with new aspects of the game. For example, a lot of people complain about the same old maps with the same old shape with the same old 3 routes... now imagine with this game, that the map is 100% playable. For example: don't like that there's a building in the way? Use your boosters to jump to the top of the building and snipe from there? Hell, throw in an element of parkor where buildings can be climbed? Imagine a MP motorcycle killstreak that allows you and a buddy to drive around, with your buddy in the sidecar gunning people down? These are all things that a new, nextgen system can give developers, and really take MP to the next level where players are no longer confined by the maps, but rather, use every part of the map to their advantage 3. I really think Ghosts got effed over, particularily by Sony and the next gen console release. I knew a lot of people who normally would have bought the game the first few hours it was released, and waited until the new system came out. Yes, I know there was the $10 upgrade that people could do to upgrade from PS3 to PS4... nevertheless, BO2 and MW3 never had people use the excuse that they were waiting for the new console to come out. 4. I know a lot of people will disagree with me here, but I think Ghosts was a very groundbreaking/innovative game for the COD series... unlocking high level weapons, perks, and killstreaks at a low level because you had the points to do so.... breaking down perks into a massive number.... actions while moving (reloading while sprinting or sliding and shooting) Ghosts (again, my opinion) did a lot of new and exciting things to spice up the COD franchise, and I can see a lot of these innovations being stables of the future COD MP games. But innovative/ground breaking games sometimes sell very well, and sometimes, do not. And it takes time to appreciate the effect it had. I think history will judge Ghosts as one of the best COD games of all time, for the direction it has given the COD franchise. I think future COD games will reap the rewards of what Ghosts has done and not have to pay the price that Ghosts did.
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 11, 2014 14:46:28 GMT -5
I don't actually think there'll be a drop... or at least that big of a drop 1. Nextgen systems with nextgen graphics with nextgen sound will allow developers to create beautiful, faster, intense games that we haven't seen yet. This alone will sell games 2. I think the COD fatigue was because, and be honest: they were getting to be the same old game, just hacked up and tossed with a new sauce. But with AW, COD has the actual chance to push the envelope with new aspects of the game. For example, a lot of people complain about the same old maps with the same old shape with the same old 3 routes... now imagine with this game, that the map is 100% playable. For example: don't like that there's a building in the way? Use your boosters to jump to the top of the building and snipe from there? Hell, throw in an element of parkor where buildings can be climbed? Imagine a MP motorcycle killstreak that allows you and a buddy to drive around, with your buddy in the sidecar gunning people down? These are all things that a new, nextgen system can give developers, and really take MP to the next level where players are no longer confined by the maps, but rather, use every part of the map to their advantage Well, here's the thing. I can imagine the above. Actually, I am playing the above already. It's called TitanFall. Every inch of a MP map is available to use and it's awe inspiring. And fun. Wonder what's on that building over there? Go get on it. That tower? Find a way to climb it. TF does it, while somehow maintaining a pace of action that is solid. CoD is probably going to go in this direction, and do it in a half azz manner compared to what TF did. I agree with that. I mentioned that before. That definitely killed some sales. Agree, but don't agree. Many of those above concepts played into a 'trap' of grinding Ghosts down into a frenzy of watching grass grow. Lean kills, for example. Slowed the game down, getting people to sit and do nothing, for a camo. And many of the above stuff you mentioned, was good, but got overwhelmed by HOW the game grounded down into yet another camp heavy, crapfest of people head-glitching from obscure corners. And as I said, before, CoD Ghosts failed to resolve the ongoing problem of CoD having 25 game modes, but all modes really just being one core meta game..."Snipe, work KD, and quit if you do poorly". It's old. Perhaps.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Jun 11, 2014 14:49:59 GMT -5
Hi, I'm Ray Bingo. Have you checked out my bait shop? I see what you did thar....
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Jun 11, 2014 14:54:49 GMT -5
"knock-off" is so bait-y LOL.
Destiny is going to be appealing to the same crowd that Borderlands does. Give me the random guns. The epic co-op quests. The Grinding. The looting. The Boss battles. Then you get some of the crowd that Cod/Halo pulls in. The bro-dude. The screechy kid. The pro streamer and all his subscribers. Then you get the starwars fans. The alien races. The mysterious "Traveler." The SPACE. The Dark. The Light. Then you get the MMO fan. The customization. the detailing. The immersion. Then you get Game of Thrones fan. The Peter. The Dinklage.
This is either going to blow CoD out of the water or it is going to be one of the biggest disappointments in gaming history.
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 11, 2014 15:01:42 GMT -5
"knock-off" is so bait-y LOL. Is there a better word to describe CoD's current run? Like it or hate it, CoD is the current king of FPSers. For a few years, people talked about when the ever increasing sales increases would end. It ended. Next up? A new game knocking them off. It's going to happen sooner than later. I can't get any type of feel for what Destiny will be like.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Jun 11, 2014 15:08:52 GMT -5
Plenty of FPS games aren't knock offs though... Some aren't even comparable. If they are to be considered knock-offs, then by the same logic CoD knocked off Counterstrike. "Successor" or "spiritual successor" is a phrasing with a more neutral connotation. Witty has a terrific comprehensive thread on Destiny in the "Other games" section of this forum. Edit: Or do you mean...like... "de-throne." I took knock-off as meaning "rip-off"
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 11, 2014 15:31:15 GMT -5
Plenty of FPS games aren't knock offs though... Some aren't even comparable. If they are to be considered knock-offs, then by the same logic CoD knocked off Counterstrike. "Successor" or "spiritual successor" is a phrasing with a more neutral connotation. Witty has a terrific comprehensive thread on Destiny in the "Other games" section of this forum. Edit: Or do you mean...like... "de-throne." I took knock-off as meaning "rip-off" UGHH. Yes. My post was a discussion about whether any of the games I listed (or others people put up), might be the game that finally knocks off CoD from it's current run. Trying to get some info, a feel on where the action might be next fall. Maybe even a side discussion on how exactly long CoD's title run has been too. In theory, it could get dethroned this year (2014), seeing how most of Ghost's sales were in 2013. Can TitanFall catch it? Now I see why the bait pic was put up. I've read Witty's Destiny post. Still not really giving me a good feel for how this game is going to play out. And TitanFall, I am actively playing it these days, more and more. Great, great game.
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Post by n1gh7 on Jun 11, 2014 16:02:54 GMT -5
Plenty of FPS games aren't knock offs though... Some aren't even comparable. If they are to be considered knock-offs, then by the same logic CoD knocked off Counterstrike. "Successor" or "spiritual successor" is a phrasing with a more neutral connotation. Witty has a terrific comprehensive thread on Destiny in the "Other games" section of this forum. Edit: Or do you mean...like... "de-throne." I took knock-off as meaning "rip-off" UGHH. Yes. My post was a discussion about whether any of the games I listed (or others people put up), might be the game that finally knocks off CoD from it's current run. Trying to get some info, a feel on where the action might be next fall. Maybe even a side discussion on how exactly long CoD's title run has been too. In theory, it could get dethroned this year (2014), seeing how most of Ghost's sales were in 2013. Can TitanFall catch it? Now I see why the bait pic was put up. I've read Witty's Destiny post. Still not really giving me a good feel for how this game is going to play out. And TitanFall, I am actively playing it these days, more and more. Great, great game. You need to play the Destiny Beta. Pre-order the game and you get access. Starts July 21 on Xbox.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jun 11, 2014 16:22:34 GMT -5
Oh, yeah, open beta is another thing I like about Destiny. Totally open, no need for mysterious sign up process, just preorder and you are in. It is totally risk free because if you don't like the beta you can just cancel the preorder. To make things even cooler, you don't even need a next gen console to play beta if you are not ready to commit to next gen yet. You can prerorder on PS4, but play the beta on X360.
If the game turns out to be a big disappointment for you, just play it free during beta for a few days and move on to other games.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Jun 11, 2014 16:25:49 GMT -5
That, in and of itself, is a huge statement of confidence from the developers. "Money-back guarantee" (that is totally what it is) is pretty much unheard of in the video game industry.
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kittymulcher
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Post by kittymulcher on Jun 11, 2014 19:17:28 GMT -5
FPS as a genre will get worn out. The cod killer will be the switch to other game genres.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Jun 11, 2014 20:07:55 GMT -5
The Co-op experience has really been kicking off. Good point.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Jun 11, 2014 20:36:39 GMT -5
I highly doubt FPS as a whole is going anywhere. And we've already seen many other genres are doing just fine. Most gamers overlap in terms of which genres they play. In fact FPS games are growing quite well even with other games growing in popularity.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2014 20:44:52 GMT -5
FPS isn't going anywhere anytime soon, but if/when it does nobody will miss it. Even then we've seen genres like Roguelikes get back up from the grave and haul ass. Anything can happen.
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infidel
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Post by infidel on Jun 12, 2014 8:45:08 GMT -5
Marco called it. The game that will kill COD is COD.
It seems to me that the sales of any new COD directly correlate to the popularity of its predecessor, not the quality of the actual new game itself. After all, we don't really know how good a game is until we've bought it and played it extensively.
Considering that Ghosts is certainly not very popular with many fans of the series, I expect AW to sell even less. The fact that AW is really pushing the futuristic envelope, which turns off many longtime hard core fans, like myself, will only worsen sales.
To me, AW isn't really COD. They should have dropped the COD moniker altogether, but they know it will generate a significant amount of sales on the name alone.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jun 12, 2014 8:56:23 GMT -5
To me, AW isn't really COD. They should have dropped the COD moniker altogether, but they know it will generate a significant amount of sales on the name alone. Can you clarify why AW isn't really COD?
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jun 12, 2014 8:57:21 GMT -5
Still seems like CoD to me. A few fancy tech things don't necessarily change all that much. It doesn't look all that futuristic to me hell BO2 had cloaking and shit. I see this as just another iteration, especially with the title Advanced Warfare. It is as much CoD as Cod4 was when it was the first Modern Warfare. They sensed that there was WWII shooter fatigue and tried something different, it paid off that time quite well. This time, who knows.
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 12, 2014 9:40:16 GMT -5
I don't agree with the whole premise that AW-CoD isn't CoD. That's kind of silly thought. BO2 was in the near future too. Swarms? VSATs? Hunter Killer's? One week of MP playing and no one put a second thought into that stuff. I think what is throwing people off right now, is the movement I think. The jumping. People equate that power jump with Halo/TF, which then freaks them out.
Here's the thing, it's silly to think that way.....but if enough people feel that way, it gets enough traction, then the effects (less sales) will be real
I don't remember anyone whining when CoD went from WW2 to the modern era.
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