markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Apr 22, 2015 10:40:43 GMT -5
Exos are popular. The only niggas that don't like them are the people that post, comment, etc. frequently on the internet. I haven't met a single person in real life that doesn't think AW is the best cod. I have met dozens. All teenagers that I teach, plus some friends in rl
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Post by bucket415 on Apr 22, 2015 11:49:33 GMT -5
Player population and sales prove that COD is in a downward trend. When 90% of the people on the internet dislike something, that doesn't make them "the vocal minority", it makes them a fairly good Gallup poll. COD was most popular as a modern shooter. No space age bullshit.
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Post by kylet357 on Apr 22, 2015 13:15:21 GMT -5
COD was most popular as a modern shooter. No space age bullshit. I almost forgot how modern Black Ops was. In other words, bullshit. It's been most popular as a first person shooter. The setting didn't matter, as Black Ops 1 & 2 proved.
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Will
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Post by Will on Apr 22, 2015 13:49:20 GMT -5
COD being in a "downwards trend" has more to do with A) The new consoles sucking the big one B) There being more competition in the FPS market C) People just getting bored of playing the same game with new artwork, every year 13 years in a row
They are still just reskinning the same old engine. The series peaked in sales at MW3 because MW1 and MW2 were so original and genre-defining. Nothing has really changed since those two games.
Exo suits have nothing to do with the decline of COD, so statements like "AW has kind of killed CoD. Ghosts got it started, this game pretty much ended it." are silly. I guess my point is, it doesn't matter what Sledgehammer released, the game is going to sell quite well by industry standards, but will continue the "decline" from the MW3 peak. There is no way to change that.
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Will
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Post by Will on Apr 22, 2015 14:01:12 GMT -5
And the polls indicate something, but never what they intend do.
For example, if they were to run a poll about SBMM, I can guarantee that the results would overwhelmingly say that AW introduced SBMM, and it causes 100% of all lag, and it sucks and needs to go, and it means that you only get lobbies with sweaty smart players. What the poll would really indicate is that people just expect more from their connections now, the archaic player-host system is dated and is starting to show it's age. So people jump on the bandwagon of blaming whatever the buzzword of the year is.
If we were to run a poll about the Bal-27 or ASM1 most players would still say they are super overpowered. They are still great weapons after the nerf, but not overpowered. I'm welling to bet none of these players have tried the Ameli Heavy, which is easily by far the best weapon in the game.
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Will
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Post by Will on Apr 22, 2015 14:37:37 GMT -5
Yeah I agree, and I do think map design has a huge impact on it. Atlas Gorge is about 10x more enjoyable than any other map, and plays amazingly with the exo suits.
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Post by iw5000 on Apr 22, 2015 14:58:45 GMT -5
Internet = vocal minority. Always. I've seen some very popular Twitter account by CoD players, (like Nadeshot)..who have tens of thousands of responses. These are mostly all ACTIVE players. And every single poll I saw (about eight or nine of them), all had a minimum of 3 to 1 against exos. Nadeshot's was running like 4 to 1 against.
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bradman
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Post by bradman on Apr 22, 2015 15:05:20 GMT -5
Gotta say, every IRL friend I have who plays CoD hates AW. It's not even debatable. Ghosts made 'em sour, AW made 'em quit.
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Post by iw5000 on Apr 22, 2015 15:15:10 GMT -5
COD being in a "downwards trend" has more to do with A) The new consoles sucking the big one B) There being more competition in the FPS market C) People just getting bored of playing the same game with new artwork, every year 13 years in a row They are still just reskinning the same old engine. The series peaked in sales at MW3 because MW1 and MW2 were so original and genre-defining. Nothing has really changed since those two games. Exo suits have nothing to do with the decline of COD, so statements like "AW has kind of killed CoD. Ghosts got it started, this game pretty much ended it." are silly. I guess my point is, it doesn't matter what Sledgehammer released, the game is going to sell quite well by industry standards, but will continue the "decline" from the MW3 peak. There is no way to change that. You couldn't be more wrong Will imho. On just about everything you said. Point 1. Exos have " nothing" to do with the decline? Good lord, come on. That's to bold of a statement. Fvck it. No. That might be the single most ridiculous comment I have EVER heard on this message board. Exos have chased off tons of people. Just my own personal friends list with my clan, well over fifty to sixty people quit playing, citing reasons that included (partially and in entirety) due to Exos. I can give you 15 names from this very board. I've ALSO talked to dozens and dozens of other clan leaders, best clans in the world. All of them, almost every single one i have talked too, has seen similar results. Yes, new consoles split stuff up, but exos played a HUGE part of it. People don't feel it's CoD, and the Exos helped chased people away. All that's debatable is the pct. Point 2. your original premise is wrong. There is no guarantee anywhere that the game HAD TO decline after MW3. Not every game hits a peak, then dissolves into a zero sales model. See all the EA sports titles. They stablized. For the record, it's disputable it even declined after MW3. BO2 sold more initially than MW3. And both sold between 26 to 29 million, with accurate figures being hard to come by. The game wasn't in decline though, with BO2. BO2 did very well. Where the game really took a first huge hit was CoD Ghosts. For all the reasons that have been talked about. Tired genre, campy, maps to big, nothing really new, etc... This is where the game took it's first big decline. Ask yourself. Were people really tired of CoD? Or were people upset with Ghosts? There is a subtle difference there, that helps better define IF this CoD game was actually in a decline. My contention is that the game wasn't necessarily in a decline, UNTIL the camp'ish, no new streaks Ghosts came out, which was hated. Food for thought there.CoDAW? It sold worse than Ghosts initially, and anything after that is guessing, because Activision and SH have gone to great lengths to not say a single freaking thing on sales, keeping everything hush hush. In fact, they even went to the extraordinary measures of fvcking hiding the lobby population numbers for the first time ever. Seriously, we can't even say this game is doing well now, when the company itself is hiding stuff like that. Furthermore, I've seen the clan numbers, also backed by BeachHead's twitter comments, that numbers are way down from even last year's low numbers. The game is in a freefall, worse than last year. AW is selling worse than Ghosts. A game that sold poorly compared to the others. How can Exos not be a factor? Point 3. The only other FPS competitor out there now for CoDAW was Destiny. That's it. And it couldn't have taken that many players. At least no more than what BF did years before, which sold comparable numbers. So there isn't more FPS competition these days. In fact, there was probably less this past fall and winter. Point 4. People may be getting bored with the same 'reskinned' game, but AW was completely different. This isn't a reskinned CoD Ghosts. AW is different. So that point you make has no basis either. This is a new game. Props to SH for trying. But reality is, this exo stuff didn't take root. The game couldn't even keep the players Ghosts had and chased off quite a many diehard fans. I've seen this. That said, I'm sure it picked up a lot of fans of the exo stuff. New blood. But it's a fact that for every one of them, there were many more who hated it.
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fpsdredd
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Post by fpsdredd on Apr 22, 2015 19:15:56 GMT -5
AW is a different game than the previous CoDs we've known. Spawning and player routing seems to defy logic at first. The answer for me was quite simple, brute force it with many hours logged. Now it's just like the other CoDs with the exception that the depth of the game is less (my opinion).
People hating on Exos is expected to a degree since it is something new.
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banana
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Post by banana on Apr 22, 2015 20:56:07 GMT -5
How old are your guys' friends? Mine are 14-18 years old
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Post by kylet357 on Apr 22, 2015 22:45:06 GMT -5
How old are your guys' friends? Mine are 14-18 years old Mine are 9 c:
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banana
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Post by banana on Apr 23, 2015 8:54:52 GMT -5
I'm 17 in case y'all didn't know
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Post by iw5000 on Apr 23, 2015 9:46:31 GMT -5
AW is a different game than the previous CoDs we've known. Spawning and player routing seems to defy logic at first. The answer for me was quite simple, brute force it with many hours logged. Now it's just like the other CoDs with the exception that the depth of the game is less (my opinion). People hating on Exos is expected to a degree since it is something new. I've said it before, but it's a two part issue. A lot of people stopped playing solely because of the exos. They didn't work through it, or brute force it like you said. They simply stopped playing. This was the first wave who left. The second wave who left were those who didn't necessarily dislike the exos...but disliked how they were implemented with spawns and smaller maps. The three things combined, have created kind of a crappy game that doesn't resemble older CoD's, where controlling certain points of the map were important. This new AW game, is just fast moving 1v1 jumping-bean battles that roam around the map. That's not CoD. It's more quake/UT like. There's a reason I stopped playing Quake, UT and Halo years ago, and got all into CoDMW1 back in 2007. Because it played like CoD, not those other games. Today? CoD is becoming those other games, and people simply don't want that.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Apr 23, 2015 11:16:15 GMT -5
How old are your guys' friends? Mine are 14-18 years old I have no friends.
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Post by iw5000 on Apr 23, 2015 11:42:54 GMT -5
How old are your guys' friends? Mine are 14-18 years old I have no friends. All my friends are in the 40 to 80 range.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Apr 23, 2015 12:17:20 GMT -5
First of all, I won't say that I "quit" COD...
but that being said
1. One of the biggest reasons why I purchased a PS4 was to play COD (and other games) with better sound/graphics/etc 2. Ghosts is one of my fav CoD's 3. My decision to not buy AW was 50% my dislike of the Exo suits and 50% Destiny
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Post by bucket415 on Apr 23, 2015 13:12:11 GMT -5
COD was most popular as a modern shooter. No space age bullshit. I almost forgot how modern Black Ops was. In other words, bullshit. It's been most popular as a first person shooter. The setting didn't matter, as Black Ops 1 & 2 proved. Those were "modern" dumb ass. Boots on the ground. Weapons that are still in use today around the world. No magic, no lasers, no jetpacks, no bullshit.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Apr 23, 2015 13:20:26 GMT -5
So WWII shooters are modern?
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Post by iw5000 on Apr 23, 2015 13:24:53 GMT -5
Semantics.
Future, modern, past...all just silly words. The issue at play here isn't the description of time, but basically MOVEMENT SCHEME. People aren't disliking the exo per se, but how it moves and interplays with the maps. You could slap the exo system on a WW2 game, and people would still have been annoyed.
And BO2 was about as modern/futurish as any of the CoD games prior to AW. But as Bucket415 correctly pointed out above, it was still 'boots on the ground'. Same movement schemes, that forced the games to play the tried & true CoD style, which is battling for map control/position. BO2 did implement some futurish Kill streaks, like swarms...but that was mostly where it ended. Everything else was essentially "CoD". Probably the biggest innovation of BO2 was the Pick 10.
It's the exo. It's movement. And how it interplays with the maps & spawns.
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fpsdredd
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Post by fpsdredd on Apr 23, 2015 14:01:25 GMT -5
AW is a different game than the previous CoDs we've known. Spawning and player routing seems to defy logic at first. The answer for me was quite simple, brute force it with many hours logged. Now it's just like the other CoDs with the exception that the depth of the game is less (my opinion). People hating on Exos is expected to a degree since it is something new. I've said it before, but it's a two part issue. A lot of people stopped playing solely because of the exos. They didn't work through it, or brute force it like you said. They simply stopped playing. This was the first wave who left. The second wave who left were those who didn't necessarily dislike the exos...but disliked how they were implemented with spawns and smaller maps. The three things combined, have created kind of a crappy game that doesn't resemble older CoD's, where controlling certain points of the map were important. This new AW game, is just fast moving 1v1 jumping-bean battles that roam around the map. That's not CoD. It's more quake/UT like. I agree somewhat. In the 3 lane style map in the past you knew you were safe from 1 lane since your teammates had it locked down. That exists but can change much faster now and players sometimes run by each other. Spawn flips are delicate - if I sneeze wrong I flip em and don't rack up those kills. Revenge kills targeting me happen now, did not happen in MW3 - flanking is done more now. I play a lot by feel, I feel where the enemies are spawning and routing. I can feel that 3 lane map style but it's different slightly. It's new. I HAD to throw hours of gameplay at it to get a sense of it.
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Post by iw5000 on Apr 23, 2015 14:37:24 GMT -5
Well, here's the thing. I have put in the time too, grinding to get a feel. And I do agree, after a while, it starts to make sense. But regardless of how much of a feel one gets with AW....
....it's still not the same old CoD. Which involved battling for map control. All the great CoD games in the past, when I think about domination games with maps like Interchange (MW3), Bootleg (MW3), Overflow (BO2), Plaza (BO2), to name a few...they all involved hard fought battling for map control, which then enabled a team to then branch out to control the spawns. A step by step strangulation of the other team. Yes, flanking was there, but within reason. The game felt like it had some element of 'tactics' in play. A process. Get this point. Get mid-map. Set up. Defend. Strangle them in their spawn. Tactics.
AW? What really are the tactics? There are no tactics for map control. The only real tactics in that regard is to bust one's ass jumping as fast as possible to where you think the opponents will be (which is ever shifting by the second) and then engage (and win) in as many 1v1 jumping/boosting/strafing fights as you can get, remembering to turn around and goes opposite every possible chance, as someone will be behind you in seconds. Rinse and repeat. Where you are on the map, is mostly irrelevant.
I know what SH was thinking. Ghosts was slow. Campy. To big of maps. Dull streaks. Same sh1t, different skin. So SH set out to 'fix' this, and then went full on HAM doing it. But not only fixing what they thought was the problem, but also killing how CoD the game itself plays. Nice try. But imho, it failed.
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Post by iw5000 on Apr 23, 2015 15:37:34 GMT -5
I'm going to add something to the above.
Prior CoD games, the maps had personalities. The maps felt alive. A map like Interchange on MW3, every spot on the map felt like it had some significance in the flow of a game.
AW? There's no importance to anything on the maps, or things on the maps. I've played every AW domination map 100x over. I can't think of a single spot that is like worth anything to control (and not worth controlling, due to flipping spawns) Everything in the game just bounces and flows right over everything. The battlefield is basically the 'air'...not any features on a map. And that's blah.
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fpsdredd
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Post by fpsdredd on Apr 23, 2015 17:05:44 GMT -5
I'm going to add something to the above. Prior CoD games, the maps had personalities. The maps felt alive. A map like Interchange on MW3, every spot on the map felt like it had some significance in the flow of a game. AW? There's no importance to anything on the maps, or things on the maps. I've played every AW domination map 100x over. I can't think of a single spot that is like worth anything to control (and not worth controlling, due to flipping spawns) Everything in the game just bounces and flows right over everything. The battlefield is basically the 'air'...not any features on a map. And that's blah. MW3 is still my favorite, it was almost the total package.
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Will
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Post by Will on Apr 23, 2015 17:08:23 GMT -5
I know what SH was thinking. Ghosts was slow. Campy. To big of maps. Dull streaks. Same sh1t, different skin. So SH set out to 'fix' this, and then went full on HAM doing it. But not only fixing what they thought was the problem, but also killing how CoD the game itself plays. Nice try. But imho, it failed. By the time Ghosts came out and there was feedback from it, AW was already 2+ years into development. I highly doubt that exo's were not introduced until that stage.
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Will
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Post by Will on Apr 23, 2015 17:09:00 GMT -5
I'm going to add something to the above. Prior CoD games, the maps had personalities. The maps felt alive. A map like Interchange on MW3, every spot on the map felt like it had some significance in the flow of a game. AW? There's no importance to anything on the maps, or things on the maps. I've played every AW domination map 100x over. I can't think of a single spot that is like worth anything to control (and not worth controlling, due to flipping spawns) Everything in the game just bounces and flows right over everything. The battlefield is basically the 'air'...not any features on a map. And that's blah. Atlas Gorge bruhhhhhhhhh
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Post by bucket415 on Apr 23, 2015 19:21:34 GMT -5
So WWII shooters are modern? Almost. You said Black Ops. BLOPS weapons still in military use across the world today: MP5K AK74U Uzi M16 Commando / M4 Famas AUG Galil FAL AK47 Dragonov L96A1 I'd call that pretty modern.
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Post by kylet357 on Apr 23, 2015 19:51:58 GMT -5
So WWII shooters are modern? Almost. You said Black Ops. BLOPS weapons still in military use across the world today: MP5K AK74U Uzi M16 Commando / M4 Famas AUG Galil FAL AK47 Dragonov L96A1 I'd call that pretty modern. lol >"AK47" >"modern" You are aware what that '47' means, right? The Browning 50. Cal machine gun is still in use today too, and that was made in 1921. Does that mean it's still modern? What about the M1911? Over a hundred year old design, still used. Definitely modern, right? No, it's not. Just because something is still used today, doesn't mean it's modern. Literally, the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Hell, the countries that do use the guns you listed are trying to replace them now.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Apr 23, 2015 20:48:32 GMT -5
So WWII shooters are modern? Almost. You said Black Ops. BLOPS weapons still in military use across the world today: MP5K AK74U Uzi M16 Commando / M4 Famas AUG Galil FAL AK47 Dragonov L96A1 I'd call that pretty modern. I never said anything about Black Ops. M1911 is still used today The Ithaca Model 37 is still used today The Walther P38 is still used by Germany The MG3 used by Germany is based off the MG42 M2 Browning is still used today All bolt action rifles use either the Mauser or Lee-Enfield system from the 19th century. The Mosin-Nagant is still in use today. Just because it's still used in the real world, doesn't make it "modern" The Ak47 was developed at the very end of WWII, The M14 and FAL were both developed after WWII seeing entry into military service in 1954 and the FAL being initially designed in 1947. The UZI was designed in 1948 and the M16 was designed in 1956. Also the AK47 and Commando aren't in use anymore, just saying. If you want to argue about standard warfare vs futuristic warfare, fine. But lumping the Cold War and post-Cold War together as "modern" is egregious, especially when mentioning weapons created just shortly after WWII, and ignoring WWII weapons that are still being used today. EDIT: Also, after the last trailer they just released today makes me excited for BO3, even if it's just because I like 3arc's campaigns.
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Post by iw5000 on Apr 23, 2015 21:10:15 GMT -5
I know what SH was thinking. Ghosts was slow. Campy. To big of maps. Dull streaks. Same sh1t, different skin. So SH set out to 'fix' this, and then went full on HAM doing it. But not only fixing what they thought was the problem, but also killing how CoD the game itself plays. Nice try. But imho, it failed. By the time Ghosts came out and there was feedback from it, AW was already 2+ years into development. I highly doubt that exo's were not introduced until that stage. I would agree with you on that. But who's to say SH didn't tighten up the maps. Reduce spawns. Speed up/tweak the exo's to move faster. Give more lift. Make the initial boost even faster. Who knows what else to give a bit more aggressive gameplay to AW. Surely they were seeing the feedback from Ghosts in early December, a full 11 months before release. By January they would have had to been aware of all the feedback coming in. At that point, they would have still had 7 months before they even debuted the multiplayer, which i think was in July, in a German Expo. Seven months is a lot of time to tweak the MP.
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