Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Apr 26, 2015 4:50:42 GMT -5
I actually seriously want a supernatural CoD since we're quickly exhausting "near future". Like, a Foxtroting thirty foot tall demon that runs around Foxtrots shit up instead of a helicopter streak. It's cool, new, more visceral, and also it's more engaging since it's something on the ground running around and all up in your grill. We actually kinda had this in the final Zambie DLC for BO2. Except instead of demons it was giant robots. And the supernatural bits were the 4 elemental staves...but you could totes fuse them together like the power ranger you always wanted to be and you know it. Nah. Don't try to out-titanfall Titanfall. Stick to what CoD has been good at. Super tight controls. Boots on ground. Relatively fast PvP action. Counterstrike but with ADS and a few more game modes. Yup. Edit: to talk a bit more about why I don't like AW... the side strafe. On this forum I have talked many times about one of my all time favorite games. Gunz: The Duel. Matrix style shooter..blah blah blah. It was an awesome game. It had wall running...very much titanfall controls but with swords, a few more guns, a solid PvE, and no titans. It also had air strafing. I feel it was used strongly in GtD because you had all this awesome interaction with walls. The play space was built for that air dashing. That does not feel like the case in AW. My gripe with AW is the restrictiveness that the small maps inflict upon you. It really can't take full advantage of a full movement system. Not to make this a titanfall vs. Cod debate.....buuuuut. Titanfall would GREATLY benefit from an air strafe. Why? Because the maps and general game design is built around the idea of freedom of motion. The maps are not claustrophobic. The verticality of the maps can actually be taken advantage of because of the ability to interact with walls.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2015 7:14:12 GMT -5
Arguing with ignorant children is annoying. I can buy a brand new $2200 Rifle Dynamics AK47 today. Its certainly a modern weapon. Its apparent that neither of you have any real knowledge of firearms, other than what you just looked up on Wikipedia. Wouldn't you consider the war in Afghanistan a modern war? Guess what? Al-qaeda uses all AK variants, Dragunov sniper rifles, FALs, M16s and many others. Beat it kids. Stop calling those things AK47. They aren't. You can probably find AK47s in the museum. All AKs in service are usually AKM, AK74, country specific (RK62/95, Type56/91 etc.), from 100 series or the rarer custom models. BO1 guns are the first iterations of their design. "Same" guns used today are upgraded and "modernized" in a way that doesn't significantly impact their design. Improvements are made on reliability, ergonomics, weight, accuracy etc. BO1 is not a modern shooter because it uses obsolete weapons. There is a big difference between first versions and latest versions. From my own experience, I can say that RK95 is a huge improvement over RK62 despite being the same design. As for the topic, I think Exos were refreshing addition but they didn't quite work in these relatively small maps, because of the issues mentioned by others(Spawns mostly). If they decide to keep Exos, make maps bigger.
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Will
True Bro
K/D below 1.0
Posts: 1,309
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Post by Will on Apr 26, 2015 10:14:26 GMT -5
I actually seriously want a supernatural CoD since we're quickly exhausting "near future". Like, a Foxtroting thirty foot tall demon that runs around Foxtrots shit up instead of a helicopter streak. It's cool, new, more visceral, and also it's more engaging since it's something on the ground running around and all up in your grill. We actually kinda had this in the final Zambie DLC for BO2. Except instead of demons it was giant robots. And the supernatural bits were the 4 elemental staves...but you could totes fuse them together like the power ranger you always wanted to be and you know it. Nah. Don't try to out-titanfall Titanfall. Stick to what CoD has been good at. Super tight controls. Boots on ground. Relatively fast PvP action. Counterstrike but with ADS and a few more game modes. Yup. Edit: to talk a bit more about why I don't like AW... the side strafe. On this forum I have talked many times about one of my all time favorite games. Gunz: The Duel. Matrix style shooter..blah blah blah. It was an awesome game. It had wall running...very much titanfall controls but with swords, a few more guns, a solid PvE, and no titans. It also had air strafing. I feel it was used strongly in GtD because you had all this awesome interaction with walls. The play space was built for that air dashing. That does not feel like the case in AW. My gripe with AW is the restrictiveness that the small maps inflict upon you. It really can't take full advantage of a full movement system. Not to make this a titanfall vs. Cod debate.....buuuuut. Titanfall would GREATLY benefit from an air strafe. Why? Because the maps and general game design is built around the idea of freedom of motion. The maps are not claustrophobic. The verticality of the maps can actually be taken advantage of because of the ability to interact with walls. I love the shit out of GunZ: The Duel. I played it back before there was PvE and everyone was just figuring out how to "fly/wallslash". So many good memories
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Post by noscreenname on Apr 26, 2015 12:21:45 GMT -5
Reveal trailer out. Aw:2 confirmed. Wtf.
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Dumien
True Bro
Black Market Trader
No engrams. Only disappointment.
Posts: 3,292
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Post by Dumien on Apr 26, 2015 12:34:52 GMT -5
I love the shit out of GunZ: The Duel. I played it back before there was PvE and everyone was just figuring out how to "fly/wallslash". So many good memories Dude! obviously might be coincidence because "Will" is pretty common, but back then I played with a guy named Will (his US escaped my mind though) like all the time. My two USs back then were yallareded and RedAllOver.
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pachiderm
True Bro
Chewing some serious leaves
Posts: 647
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Post by pachiderm on Apr 26, 2015 13:29:43 GMT -5
Arguing with ignorant children is annoying. I can buy a brand new $2200 Rifle Dynamics AK47 today. Its certainly a modern weapon. Its apparent that neither of you have any real knowledge of firearms, other than what you just looked up on Wikipedia. Wouldn't you consider the war in Afghanistan a modern war? Guess what? Al-qaeda uses all AK variants, Dragunov sniper rifles, FALs, M16s and many others. Beat it kids. "I spend too much on outdated weapons platforms" FTFY
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Apr 26, 2015 13:38:49 GMT -5
My only wish is that shotguns won't be nerfed around the new movement system like in AW.
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Post by noscreenname on Apr 26, 2015 13:47:26 GMT -5
Driftered said:
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asasa
True Bro
fuck
Posts: 4,255
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Post by asasa on Apr 26, 2015 16:04:43 GMT -5
Why the fuck can't we just have regular Call of Duty? I have more faith in Treyarch to do this well than the other two studios, but I just dont like the idea in general. Infinite sprint? Dumb. No mantle / jump / etc. "no fire periods"? Thats just reducing the skill gap. Now you can brainlessly mantle and spray shit down rather than have to think out the risk/reward (or even do a crouch jump to avoid these issues when possible..)
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Post by lustindarkness on Apr 26, 2015 16:18:14 GMT -5
I'm conflicted, can't decide if I am liking what I see/hear about BO3 or just looking forward to no more AW.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Apr 26, 2015 19:05:34 GMT -5
Why the Foxtrot can't we just have regular Call of Duty? I have more faith in Treyarch to do this well than the other two studios, but I just dont like the idea in general. Infinite sprint? Dumb. No mantle / jump / etc. "no fire periods"? Thats just reducing the skill gap. Now you can brainlessly mantle and spray shit down rather than have to think out the risk/reward (or even do a crouch jump to avoid these issues when possible..) MW2 UMP, Lightweight Pro, Marathon Pro, Ninja Pro. Brainlessly mantle and spray shit down with infinite sprint :/
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Apr 26, 2015 19:13:03 GMT -5
Treyarch will save us from all this future combat nonsense with World at War 2 in 2018, exclusive DLC to Xbox Infinity Holophone version... BELIEEEEEEEVE!
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Apr 26, 2015 19:19:34 GMT -5
Implying infinite sprint is overpowered/cheap.
Well it is Call of Booty where guns have no recoil and 3 hit kill ~ 1000* RPM to the foot across map since CoD4(Except shotguns those suck, buff shotguns DJ Vondercuck). At least MW2 map where more "tacticool".
Mindless rushing got you shredded by foreheads shooting no recoil dwarf star bullets 1000 yards out in previous CoDs. But this new trend is of no cover arena shooting lead trigger fingering with the ASM1/PDW/FAL (AW/BLOPS2) steams my beans to no end.
Give me getting ganked by mind booletz any day over being zerged rushed by SMGs with FREE 50+ magazines in a wide open map while my shotgun only has enough shells for one person.
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Lexapro
True Bro
PSN: Lexa_pro
Posts: 1,066
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Post by Lexapro on Apr 26, 2015 20:27:50 GMT -5
From every video I've seen from people who have actually played the game, they describe the "thrust jump" as nothing like the exo jump/boost mechanic. In fact, it sounds like almost exactly the opposite: whereas exo boosts would give you a sudden burst of speed before cutting your momentum, this boost jump sounds like you gradually build up speed and height. There's no ground pounding or dashing so there's no get out of jail free card; if you're going up in the air, you better have a good reason for it. I believe vonderhaar described it during his interview with TmarTn on #TheRace stream as essentially being a replacement for ladders. This fits in with their new "guns up" design philosophy where you are able to aim and shoot through all forms of movement including wall running, power sliding, mantling and even swimming. Ladders have historically always made anyone using them an easy target, especially when they made noise or were placed in the open.
The aforementioned interview (which also includes Mark Lamia) was actually quite enlightening and gave me some renewed faith in Treyarch's approach. Superficially, the new movement systems do sound very similar to AW Exo-movement. But listening to Vonderhaar describe the desire for 3-lane maps (which we know 3arc is good at making) and keeping action "in frame", I really believe that they understand the gameflow flaws that arose from exo-suits and small maps and will not succumb to the same pitfalls. I see it as a refinement of what Exo-abilities perhaps tried and failed to achieve: making CoD faster and more dynamic without sacrificing important gameplay elements of map control and player positioning. Everyone who has played the game has said that 90% of gunfights are on the ground and I see no reason not to believe them.
I do have some concerns about the specialists and their special weapons and abilities but those can be tweaked and balanced. I have heard that both dead silence and awareness are in the current version of the game and that also raises some red flags. Still, I think this new movement system is a good foundation that everything else like the maps, weapons and perks and scorestreaks can be designed around. I have faith in Treyarch and I feel many of kneejerk reactions (which I don't expect from this community) are unfounded.
EDIT: I thought this video summed it up well:
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Post by GodMars on Apr 26, 2015 22:43:24 GMT -5
If I want to play Titanfall or Destiny, I'll play them. I play CoD for a reason, and what I saw in AW and am seeing with BO3 isn't it.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Apr 26, 2015 22:44:01 GMT -5
Never thought I'd say this but DJ Vondercuck needs to go back to the BLOPS1 map design.
Inb4 there are 15 Nuketown 2069 maps.
PS: Thank you sweet Geebus for Dead Silence and hope it's better than Exo-Mute.
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Post by iw5000 on Apr 27, 2015 7:28:46 GMT -5
The aforementioned interview (which also includes Mark Lamia) was actually quite enlightening and gave me some renewed faith in Treyarch's approach. Superficially, the new movement systems do sound very similar to AW Exo-movement. But listening to Vonderhaar describe the desire for 3-lane maps (which we know 3arc is good at making) and keeping action "in frame", I really believe that they understand the gameflow flaws that arose from exo-suits and small maps and will not succumb to the same pitfalls. I see it as a refinement of what Exo-abilities perhaps tried and failed to achieve: making CoD faster and more dynamic without sacrificing important gameplay elements of map control and player positioning. Everyone who has played the game has said that 90% of gunfights are on the ground and I see no reason not to believe them. I do have some concerns about the specialists and their special weapons and abilities but those can be tweaked and balanced. I have heard that both dead silence and awareness are in the current version of the game and that also raises some red flags. Still, I think this new movement system is a good foundation that everything else like the maps, weapons and perks and scorestreaks can be designed around. I have faith in Treyarch and I feel many of kneejerk reactions (which I don't expect from this community) are unfounded. EDIT: I thought this video summed it up well: Great post ^^^ This is what I have been saying. I watched Driftor's video. At least right now, it seems like Treyarch understands what makes CoD, be CoD. It looks like they are trying to ramp up gameplay speed, make less tactical loitering, but achieve this goal WITHOUT sacrificing map control elements. AW tried to solve it by simply making most of the gameplay be in the air. Treyarch seems to be doing it by using the infinite sprint, and also making the auto-mantle feature. Keep the 'boots on the ground', but make the gameplay on the ground more dynamic. At least for now, I like it. All these things encourage movement and don't penalize a player for getting around the map. But they do it in a different way than AW. All good so far. My one small concern is this power boost slide that can go on for 10, 20, 30+ feet. Is this going to be an animation? Where I see someone coming at me, they initiate a slide (animation?), and then basically become impervious to fire? I hope not. We'll see on the wall running. I'm a bit skeptical.
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Lexapro
True Bro
PSN: Lexa_pro
Posts: 1,066
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Post by Lexapro on Apr 27, 2015 13:39:26 GMT -5
I heard there are only a few portions of each map that actually have traversable walls; you won't be able to do it just anywhere, or even if you could, it won't be particularly viable. It's not a focus like it was in Titanfall.
My concern is more with the power-slide. I don't think you will be invulnerable while doing it, but it seems that it would be the ideal way to get into gunfights. It sounds like you'll be able to move quickly and ADS while maintaining a minimal profile, like a free Stalker that works while crouched. I don't see a reason not to go around every corner like this and I would prefer not to have a game where everyone is just constantly sliding around on their knees.
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Post by bucket415 on Apr 27, 2015 13:56:13 GMT -5
Arguing with ignorant children is annoying. I can buy a brand new $2200 Rifle Dynamics AK47 today. Its certainly a modern weapon. Its apparent that neither of you have any real knowledge of firearms, other than what you just looked up on Wikipedia. Wouldn't you consider the war in Afghanistan a modern war? Guess what? Al-qaeda uses all AK variants, Dragunov sniper rifles, FALs, M16s and many others. Beat it kids. "I spend too much on outdated weapons platforms" FTFY Outdated? Even with all the tech out there, there isn't a more reliable, less maintenance required, rifle you can buy.
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Post by bucket415 on Apr 27, 2015 14:47:42 GMT -5
Arguing with ignorant children is annoying. I can buy a brand new $2200 Rifle Dynamics AK47 today. Its certainly a modern weapon. Its apparent that neither of you have any real knowledge of firearms, other than what you just looked up on Wikipedia. Wouldn't you consider the war in Afghanistan a modern war? Guess what? Al-qaeda uses all AK variants, Dragunov sniper rifles, FALs, M16s and many others. Beat it kids. Stop calling those things AK47. They aren't. You can probably find AK47s in the museum. All AKs in service are usually AKM, AK74, country specific (RK62/95, Type56/91 etc.), from 100 series or the rarer custom models. BO1 guns are the first iterations of their design. "Same" guns used today are upgraded and "modernized" in a way that doesn't significantly impact their design. Improvements are made on reliability, ergonomics, weight, accuracy etc. BO1 is not a modern shooter because it uses obsolete weapons. There is a big difference between first versions and latest versions. From my own experience, I can say that RK95 is a huge improvement over RK62 despite being the same design. As for the topic, I think Exos were refreshing addition but they didn't quite work in these relatively small maps, because of the issues mentioned by others(Spawns mostly). If they decide to keep Exos, make maps bigger. Everyone in the industry uses AK47 to designate 7.62x39 and AK74 to designate 5.45x39. Everyone also knows they are variants.
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Will
True Bro
K/D below 1.0
Posts: 1,309
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Post by Will on Apr 27, 2015 16:16:23 GMT -5
"Every map will be 3 lane with no more than 2 levels of elevation"
Oh, fuck off.
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Apr 27, 2015 16:48:39 GMT -5
I can't wait for everyone to bitch about 3 lane maps again!
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Apr 27, 2015 16:54:47 GMT -5
3 lane maps are great when SH isn't involved.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Apr 28, 2015 13:44:34 GMT -5
"Every map will be 3 lane with no more than 2 levels of elevation" Oh, Foxtrot off. At first it bothers me but honestly BO2 was so much less of a clusterfuck than AW. AW's movement makes it way better than any previous CoD but the map design was too vertical with too many places to get shot from. I hope they don't dial back the crazy too much, but it did need dialing back.
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Post by bucket415 on Apr 28, 2015 13:53:34 GMT -5
If the maps are like COD4 or MW2 or BLOPS1, they will be good. If like latter games, terribad.
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Post by hard1ine on Apr 28, 2015 16:54:42 GMT -5
Exos arent inherantly bad. SHG is. Probably the most sensible thing you've ever posted. It's funny how everyone is so quick to toss this game under the bus when a completely unrelated and incompetent developer failed with the same kind of idea.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Apr 28, 2015 17:25:41 GMT -5
AW's movement makes it way better than any previous CoD but the map design was too vertical with too many places to get shot from. If Perplex is any indication, the problem is that the maps aren't vertical enough.
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Post by -3055- on Apr 29, 2015 7:53:10 GMT -5
Comeback is a shitshow
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Post by illram on Apr 29, 2015 11:02:23 GMT -5
"3 lanes" can be good and bad. A good 3 lane map allows variety for each lane. For instance one lane is CQC, one lane is mid-range, maybe one lane is more wide open and can be sniped. Criss-crossing to each lane to change your route across the map also is an opportunity for combat variety and interesting map design choices.
In my not so humble opinion most of the best maps across all the COD's were 3 lane maps that followed this formula.
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Post by illram on Apr 29, 2015 11:48:32 GMT -5
I agree with all that. A good choke point should only be held via good teamwork, and too many ways to change between the 3 lanes is confusing. A good map should let a player have some idea of the "safe" side and the "not safe" side, even if this is dynamically changing throughout the game. This leads to more strategy and more fun. (This is not to say a map that encourages total pandemonium is "bad," it's just not something you want in a bunch of maps. One Rust or Dome in a rotation is fine.)
Balance is important though. While a good map has some predictability a bad map, for example, lets a single player control a portion of the map too easily. I think something almost every COD has tried to do is also avoid creating premium invulnerable tactical loitering/overwatch spots. Any overwatch area usually has more than one entry, or more than one line of sight angle on the overwatch position so you cannot just claymore a single door or peek out a single window and be safe. But go too far and just eliminate any sort of overwatch area and you create a non-fun pandemonium map conducive to a single playstyle, which is boring. A good map should encourage use of the entire map in a non-objective mode (in an objective mode you can obviously force people to use the whole map).
The simple formula of 3 lanes and a long path connecting all of them works well, for example you identified rundown, which is a great example of a classic 3 lane with a very simple transverse--a moat. People use that whole map because each lane has different advantages. Overgrown did the same thing. Each of these maps had some variety in each lane. You can run and gun your way around rundown with a shotgun or you can sit and snipe, or you can play a "normal" assault rifle type game and look for mid range engagements. Overgrown leaned more towards sniping but it still had variety. Contrast this to Hardhat where everyone is pushed towards the middle of the map, where all the action always is. The other "lanes" are mostly just used to flank the action in the middle rather than being centers of action in themselves and these lanes are fairly vanilla mid-range combat areas. For instance on Hardhat the area overlooking the "C" flag, there is a tarp blocking a long line of sight down to the other side. Dumb. One single long sight line for sniping would not be too powerful right there and would lead to more variety and maybe more action in that area. (People love revenge killing snipers). But MW3 map designers seemed hell bent on over balancing each map to the point where we got mostly 1 or 2 dimensional maps.
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