probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Mar 8, 2016 2:37:52 GMT -5
So if you ADS and strafe while not moving your aim, you don't suffer any recoil penalties (except maybe autoaim pulling your crosshairs a little bit)? Nope. In the given case, you're neither being helped nor punished by this mechanic, even when your aim is being pulled purely by aim assist.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Mar 6, 2016 12:29:55 GMT -5
If by recent memory, you mean a year, then yes this is one of the better CoDs between this and AW. Your logic is faultless.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Mar 4, 2016 17:08:55 GMT -5
convergeRate and divergeRate are near 1 but not necessarily greater or less than 1? i.e. convergeRate could be less than 1 for better recoil stability, but some guns could have a convergeRate greater than 1 making recoil harder to control? The recoil in this game feels like it has a lot of variance compared to previous games. The VMP and KN-44 can suddenly jerk at times. I assume this cannot be a function of this recoilControl mechanic, but I wonder if other aspects of the recoil mechanic has changed. I can see that minimum magnitude in this game is higher than in AW or Ghosts, so maybe that's sufficient to change the behavior of recoil. Now that Marvel4 has these numbers in his raw data spreadsheet, I can tell you that the divergeScale is always less than or equal to one and that convergeScale is greater than or equal to one. (Note that we inverted the meaning of "converge" and "diverge" since I opened this thread. And the Pharo is a major exception, with a convergeScale of 0.15.) Thus, fighting to control your weapon never makes your recoil worse, and giving in to it can never make it better (excepting vertical GunKick, which is the exact opposite). I've received no indication from Marvel4 that new recoil variables are at play in the weapon files. The only comment I can make is that many weapons in this game have significant adsSpread. The handguns, shotguns, SMGs and LMGs all have very significant adsSpread, which would introduce some variance into the player's accuracy. Perhaps that is what is responsible for what you are experiencing.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Mar 4, 2016 16:32:37 GMT -5
Wish we had recoil plots. Recoil plots are tasty. mmmmm... data... I'm getting there....
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Mar 3, 2016 23:55:22 GMT -5
In most patch notes released for Black Ops III, some weapons have had their "ability to control recoil" either reduced or increased. No notion of "control" has ever been known to be part of the recoil model in Call of Duty, and so this phrasing indicates that a change to the recoil model has occurred in Black Ops III. Indeed, that is the case: Marvel4 and I have discovered a new recoil mechanic and the variables that govern its behavior. In short, this mechanic causes the player's recoil to either be dampened or exacerbated depending on the direction they are turning at the moment they fire a shot. (I recommend reading my recoil post - just the basics - before continuing.) The mechanic affects both ViewKick and GunKick - but not equally, as we'll explain soon - by scaling the drawn velocities by a factor depending on whether the player is looking into or away from a kick, or not at all. In the latter case, no scaling is ever applied. In the previous two cases, the scaling is given by two weapon statistics called kickOpposedInputScalar and kickAlignedInputScalar. Henceforth, they will just be called opposedScalar and alignedScalar. They are both decimal (floating-point) numbers that are positive and tend to be near 1.0 for most weapons. The mechanic, like almost all other recoil mechanics, is applied independently to the yaw and pitch coordinates. How these are applied to a given dimension can be broken down into three primary cases: - If the player is not turning (with respect to the given dimension, either yaw or pitch), no scaling is applied.
- If the player is turning in the positive direction and receives a positive kick, or is turning in the negative direction and receives a negative kick, the kick is scaled by the alignedScalar.
- If the player's turning direction and received kick are of opposite sign, the kick is scaled by the opposedScalar.
In plain English: when you are "fighting" the kick, your kick is scaled by opposedScalar, and when you're giving in to the kick, it is scaled by alignedScalar (with one exception noted below). In the above cases, "positive" and "negative" are with respect to the ViewKick coordinate system (positive is left/up, negative is down/right). Looking up or down to the 85 degree pitch limit to lock your view does not affect the mechanic; as long as look input is provided, one of the two scalars will be applied. Also, any change in view due to aim assist does not count as "turning" for the purposes of this mechanic. Interestingly, this mechanic is technically bugged. Note that the mechanic uses ViewKick-based coordinates in determining which scalar to use. This causes a problem for GunKick, as with GunKick the pitch coordinates (down is positive, up is negative) are the exact opposite of ViewKick. When a player is looking up (positive look direction) and receives a downward (positive) kick, the player is fighting the recoil and we expect the opposedScalar to be applied to the given kick. However, because the signs of these two quantities match, the alignedScalar is applied instead. Put simply, when the player is fighting a vertical GunKick kick, the game actually applies the alignedScalar scalar, and vice-versa. The discovery of this mechanic sheds light on the meaning of the patch notes with regard to "recoil control." To achieve higher "control", the opposedScalar and the alignedScalar can be decreased. Edit: Changed the meaning of "diverge" and "converge" to be relative to the kick rather than the original point of aim/center of the viewport. Changed "rate" to "scale" in the variable names, as nothing is changing over time. [Not relevant.] Also, a bunch of other corrections. Edit: Replaced variable names with the real names.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Mar 3, 2016 18:04:09 GMT -5
These questions regarding the adsRecoil mechanic prompted Marvel4 to do some testing on my behalf, testing that almost perfectly confirms what I stated before. Here are the results that Marvel4 has confirmed: - The adsRecoil mechanic does not affect gunkick.
- The returnRate is correct as described, but it is not applied continuously when the trigger is released. Rather, the game is simply querying if the user is taking a shot within one fireTime of the last. When a shot is being fired, the reduction is increased by reductionRate; if not, the reduction is decremented by returnRate. Thus, a returnRate of 1 necessarily implies that the reduction is completely reset after one fireTime if a shot is not fired.
- The reduction does not apply to the first shot. Consequently, this means that the first shot of each burst from a burst-fire weapon is also not affected, since a time of fireTime + burstFireDelay must pass before the next volley may be fired.
- The Grip works on semi-automatic weapons only when they are fired at the maximum rate. This prevents returnRate from being invoked.
Again, all of this assumes that the core theory is correct, but there's very little now that could be wrong given the evidence.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Mar 2, 2016 21:49:57 GMT -5
I'm a little confused because I think you put some values out of order with respect to their labels? Can you clarify that ... reductionRate - rate at which viewkick magnitudes are scaled as gun continues to fire reductionLimit - maximum viewkick reduction returnRate - rate at which viewkick magnitudes return to nominal while gun is not firing What does it mean that grip sets reductionLimit to 1? You suggested that the HAMR reduction limit of 0.15 means that viewkick can only be reduced by 15%. Doesn't 1 imply a ceiling of 100% viewkick reduction then? Is it necessary that the trigger be held for returnRate not to apply? What if return rate is inactive so long as the gun is being fired near its maximum rate? Yeah, I completely bungled the order of the numbers, which are corrected now in my previous post. ("Respectively" my ass.) You have exactly the right idea regarding the proposed theory. Your idea for how returnRate works is possibly correct but raises a few questions. What would it mean for the gun to fire "near" its maximum rate? At what rate is the reduction being lost between each shot? Per second is too fast for nearly every gun, as even a weapon that fires at only 600 RPM would lose 10% of its reduction before the next shot. Granted it's possible that this is what happens, but from a coding perspective it's much harder than a simple query of "bro, u can fir nao. u fire? no? k u lose x reduction lol."
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Mar 2, 2016 18:56:43 GMT -5
For the grip attachment, what does ADS Recoil Reduction Rate =1 and ADS Recoil Reduction Limit =.075 mean? Unfortunately, there's no hard evidence for how this works exactly. However, we (Marvel4 and I) have a good theory based on the values of these variables in Black Ops II and the apparent fact that the Grip actually works (for automatic weapons; more on this later) in Black Ops III. So there are three variables that govern this mechanic: reductionRate, reductionLimit and returnRate. (I omit the "adsRecoil" prefix for simplicity.) In Black Ops II, every weapon had these values set to 0, 0 and 1, respectively - with one exception: the HAMR, which has values of 0.03, 0.15 and 1, respectively. Now, if you played Black Ops II, you'll remember that the HAMR gradually "settled" over prolonged fire. (This is also partly on account of the decreased fire rate after the sixth shot.) In Black Ops III, as you noted, equipping a Grip sets the reductionLimit and reductionRate to 0.075 and 1. So this is the theory that is consistent with all of these facts (and the names of the variables). For each shot fired, the velocities drawn for the subsequent shot are scaled by reductionRate more than the previous value. So, for example, with the HAMR, the first shot is not reduced at all the second shot is reduced by 3% (corresponding to the 0.03 value for reductionRate), the third is reduced by 6%, etc. This stops when either the player releases the trigger or the reductionLimit is reached. So, with the HAMR, after the sixth shot is fired, the 15% reduction is reached and all shots fired thereafter have their kick reduced by 15%. When the trigger is released, the reduction is reduced at a rate of returnRate per fireTime of the weapon. That's just a fancy way of saying, "if it's time for you to fire another shot but you're not gonna, roll back the reduction by returnRate". With a returnRate of 1, you expect to be back at a 0% reduction the moment you release the trigger, since you lose 100% of the reduction. All this implies two things for the Grip in Black Ops III. First, the Grip provides a 7.5% reduction to viewkick - its simply impossible to tell whether this affects gunkick at all - to every shot except the first. Second, the Grip is broken for semi-automatic weapons, since releasing the trigger is required to fire each subsequent shot. Now, that second consequence is why I have to stress that none of this is confirmed information. It's hard to tell whether the second point really is true, as it's very hard to test its validity directly; the Sheiva has very little recoil and the MX Garand, because of its very random recoil, wouldn't easily signal in a test that the Grip does not work as expected. If the Grip does work for semi-auto weapons, then there's something else going on that we don't understand.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Mar 1, 2016 0:47:41 GMT -5
I take that back: I wish we were GameFAQs.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Feb 28, 2016 19:14:45 GMT -5
Are we GameFAQs now?
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Feb 25, 2016 21:22:35 GMT -5
Ah, that makes a lot more sense now. Sorry. So Min Magnitude is the phytagoras theorem when you account for Yaw and Pitch recoil value (displacement from center)? Edit: negative viewkick means recoil to right? not left? Yeppers. If the magnitude (read: Pythagorean distance from the origin, Euclidean norm, etc.) of the two drawn velocities is less than minMag, they are both scaled by a constant factor such that their magnitude does match minMag. For example, suppose yaw = 30, pitch = 40, and minMag = 100. Then the magnitude of the two given velocities is sqrt(30^2 + 40^2) = 50 < 100 = minMag. Thus, both yaw and pitched are scaled by factor 2 so that sqrt((30 * 2)^2 + (40 * 2)^2) = sqrt(60^2 + 80^2) = 100 = minMag;
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probaddie
True Bro
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Post by probaddie on Feb 23, 2016 20:06:28 GMT -5
All I know is this thread made me hungry for a burger. /shitpost
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Feb 22, 2016 16:45:52 GMT -5
Ah yes it does. ViewKick has an invisible boundary set to 10 degrees for both yaw and pitch. Does anyone know how to lift this boundary or whether it's possible? As far as I know, that ten degree boundary is hard-coded into the client - it is definitely not a weapon parameter, like gunMaxYaw and gunMaxPitch. The only other possibility is that it's controlled by a hidden cvar, but I don't have the coding chops to dig that deep. The only option at that point, as far as your mod goes, would be to hack the client directly.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Feb 15, 2016 18:54:17 GMT -5
Negative numbers actually mean down/right, not down/left (as explained in the link). Question related to probaddie's long in-depth. Only viewkick is shown on the main sheet of Marvel4's stats. How much of a role does gunkick play? Also, I think v_critical \propto a is a key equation. v_critical describes the maximum value of viewkick that will center back in time for the next bullet, and a is the center speed. If on a certain gun, grip lowers kick such that the gun centers back in time a lot more frequently, then grip is more useful. I say this only because qualitatively the weevil seems to benefit a lot from grip, and it has high centerspeed. 1. The coordinate system is not consistent between ViewKick and GunKick, but you have it right for ViewKick. (With GunKick, both coordinates take the opposite sign with respect to the Cartesian convention.) 2. In Black Ops III, not much. For nearly all weapons, the GunKick velocity bounds (adsGunKick[Yaw/Pitch][Min/Max]) are effectively negligible. The only case I can see them making a slight difference is with the shotguns, and even then only for the Brecci and Haymaker while ADS. 3. You are right that ViewKick is much more sensitive to changes in velocity bounds than centerSpeed changes. Edit: aroo
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Feb 14, 2016 13:13:05 GMT -5
ITT: political
OPINIONS
P
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I
O
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probaddie
True Bro
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Post by probaddie on Feb 13, 2016 20:01:22 GMT -5
Predictions. If I have to hear about Hillary Clinton being a woman one more time I will lose my mind. If I have to hear about how the people bringing up the people bringing up Hillary's womanhood are misogynists one more time, I'm going to lose someone my pachiderm 's mind.
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probaddie
True Bro
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Post by probaddie on Feb 8, 2016 15:14:31 GMT -5
full stats are coming prepare your buttholes I want you to prepare mine for me.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Feb 8, 2016 10:28:20 GMT -5
Both at the same time? My, what a talented elephant he is.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Feb 4, 2016 13:33:05 GMT -5
No, the video is fine. I just meant that as a jab at people blowing their lids in the usual manner over this stuff (see the comments on the video for a taste). You actually read YouTube comments? Yes, for much the same reason I - and most of us - can't avoid looking at a car crash.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Feb 4, 2016 12:04:26 GMT -5
All I learned is that people who whine about netcode in Call of Duty (still) don't understand what they're whining about. Is that guy in the video wrong about something? No, the video is fine. I just meant that as a jab at people blowing their lids in the usual manner over this stuff (see the comments on the video for a taste).
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Feb 3, 2016 20:50:55 GMT -5
All I learned is that people who whine about netcode in Call of Duty (still) don't understand what they're whining about.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Jan 28, 2016 8:31:01 GMT -5
2 + 5i
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Jan 3, 2016 11:59:55 GMT -5
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Dec 28, 2015 23:41:53 GMT -5
Yahtzee!
qX5ApZiN16d186
Edit: close enough.16d186·0d0
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Nov 17, 2015 23:49:10 GMT -5
(Photo of me) Does this look like probaddie? ☑ Yes ☐ No I know I'm awesome and everything, but the stalking has to stop, people.
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probaddie
True Bro
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Post by probaddie on Nov 17, 2015 1:54:45 GMT -5
Im not as cognizant about the current situation concerning Marvel and BM here... could someone enlighten me fully so that I can properly give my 2 cents concerning the issue? All I know is that BM's stats are wrong, he demands money for those wrong stats, and he refuses to admit such. Concerning Marvel, all I know is that he is the "man behind the numbers" or so, the guy providing them... and spending a great deal of time getting them. I appreciate this greatly, but whatever else I should know, could someone provide me? What's the relation between Marvel and BM, if there is one at all. What is Marvel's current situation. Etc... With people talking left and right about Marvel, I'd appreciate someone telling me what I should know. Not to toot my own horn, but you can check out my last post in this thread.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Nov 17, 2015 0:33:48 GMT -5
A Poem by Probaddie
Pineapples. Prickly pineapples. Poignant prickly pineapples. My eyes are open.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Nov 17, 2015 0:16:49 GMT -5
I really don't care about anything else in your post, Hollywood, but this irks me. (Not you, specifically, just this notion): I have nothing against Marvel but da mn Marv... I hope this debacle was all worth it to you. I'd be less upset had you sold it all to at least someone who was competent. I'm not sure how people - on these forums and in the wider Call of Duty community - imagine ripping stats from the game works. Generally, they can be forgiven for not knowing; not everyone has the aptitude and the patience to learn how to do pull stats from a game, much less understand the process. But from first-hand experience, I do. I've helped Marvel decipher megabytes of compiled data - intractable streams of hex - in fast files. I've helped him work out which data correspond to which variables using nothing but knowledge of the game's mechanics and sound inference. Furthermore, imagine having to do all this anew when each game is released. Mechanics change or are altered, new data formats employed, all serving to mangle the location of the data so that each game presents a new puzzle to solve, one which requires dozens of hours of painstaking analysis. It takes nothing less than a Herculean effort to produce statistics from compiled data, to say nothing of the time needed to collect and present the data in cleanly presented spreadsheets. I've watched Marvel sink hundreds of hours of his life into his work, work he has done for well over three years now. For you. For free. I watched as unscrupulous Youtubers - I specifically exclude Drift0r from this charge - stole Marvel's work and used it in their videos to make themselves rich, without so much as a passing remark of gratitude. I also watched as Marvel was banned from Advanced Warfare for putting a donation link in the OP of the Stats thread. (Yes, he was banned from Advanced Warfare and yes, that is why Sledgehammer Games gave him that ban. Do not ask me how I know this; you will not get an answer.) Now tell me: would any of you in Marvel's position stand for this? Would any of you allow yourselves to be repeatedly exploited, to allow others to make a profit off of your hard work? Any of you who think that Marvel should have simply kept his head down and continued to create spreadsheets while being taken advantage of are either irredeemably stupid, unabashedly selfish, or lying. Was this the best way for him to free himself from this exploitation while still doing what he loves to do? I think so. I encouraged him to do this. And before anyone tries to point out that I've not monetized my recoil plots: save it. You already know that's beside the point. What I choose to do with my work is neither here nor there. The notion that Marvel owes this community his time and effort is disgusting. Maybe some of you were not acutely aware of Marvel's situation; as I said, that can be forgiven. Some of you, rather than pouting like children, have endeavored to find the stats on your own; good on you, and good luck. But to any of you who can't get over the fact that you won't have your spreadsheet until February and feel entitled to attack Marvel for not providing you with a service you have no actual right to: piss off. Better yet, go learn hexadecimal, download a hex editor and a fastfile extractor, open up the game files and see how far you get with that - come back when you find something useful.
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probaddie
True Bro
You're triggering my intelligence
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Post by probaddie on Nov 16, 2015 20:44:18 GMT -5
>BASEWEAPON >Hidden
My intelligence is completely triggered right now.
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probaddie
True Bro
You're triggering my intelligence
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Post by probaddie on Nov 15, 2015 11:34:03 GMT -5
The amount of entitlement in this thread is startling. Or not. People are just learning the lesson of what happens when you take something for granted. Mr Black market trader. I'll give you this here doge named Probuddy who's in almost mint condition for shotgun nerfs. Your depravity knows no bounds.
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