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Post by MoopusMaximus on Jul 21, 2012 6:58:34 GMT -5
Perks are not hard coded. Few parts are immutable. Most of their script is modifiable and can be overwritten by new versions of the .gsc files they are within. Completely new perks can be made and existing ones can be changed. For example, look for the COD4 mod "Obscurity". While making dramatic changes would require lots of testing for compatibility / stability issues and the closed systems that are consoles probably having their own extra layer of possible issues, most suggested changes in this thread are not impossible. Would you mind telling me the location of the perk .gsc's? I've downloaded the mod-tools yet I don't see any scripts containing them. Edit: Nevermind. It's _class.gsc. |
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Tyzerra
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Post by Tyzerra on Jul 21, 2012 7:09:40 GMT -5
After grinding my MSR to gold over the past 3 days it really gave me an insight as to how easy it is to insta-kill anyone who comes near you with quickdraw...
If there is going to be a change to sniper ADS times, then here's what I propose:
- Default scope has 0.35s ADS time
- ACOG scope has 0.3s ADS time
- Thermal, variable scope have 0.4s ADS time
^ Where quickdraw does not affect snipers.
I doubt this will happen and also we really need to stick to perks in this thread...
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Jul 21, 2012 7:20:17 GMT -5
Why on earth would you think Snipers need to be nerfed in any way?
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cmck
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Post by cmck on Jul 21, 2012 7:25:40 GMT -5
^Because long range weapons shouldn't have similarities with what a shotgun is capable of. Not only do we have an instakill hipfire smg to mimic shotguns, but the long range weapons can duplicate them too. Its not exactly what is supposed to happen.
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Tyzerra
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Post by Tyzerra on Jul 21, 2012 7:27:06 GMT -5
They're way better at close range than they should be. I was winning <10m gunfights against shotgun users with my MSR. I should NOT be able to do that, regardless of player skill.
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Tyzerra
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Post by Tyzerra on Jul 21, 2012 10:36:43 GMT -5
Very true, I never thought about it like that. Maybe that's why they're pretty focused on making the DLC maps as big as they are.
Anyway, getting back to perks, I think we've nearly reached a good consensus. We need just one true bro (megaqwerty, TipYourMedic, etc) to add one final post with the changes we all nearly agree on. Once that's been done we can tweak each one to what we 100% agree on and send it off. We need to act fast if IW are gonna take our suggestions.
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Jul 21, 2012 11:37:08 GMT -5
That's because shotguns are total sh it though. Quickscoping has never been too gamebreaking. And the main reasons sniping sucks in this game is the fact that the maps are tight as hell, limiting the number of good sniping spots and making him very vulnerable to flanking. So getting rid of their "leap of faith" option really fu cks them har dcore. QFT. If you think Sniper Rifles are comparable in effectiveness to SMGs at close range, then I don't know what to tell you. And I can't buy into the argument that a weapon should be a ineffective at a certain range "regardless of player skill." A railgunner has 1 shot to kill you. If he's good enough to hit that shot, he deserves the kill. If he misses, that should be an automatic kill for you. Considering most weapons have TTKs in the .25 second range, you really have no excuse if he manages to get a second shot off. Spamming semi-automatic snipers at close range can beat out shotguns, but that's more a reflection of how underpowered shotguns are than anything else. Proper strength shotguns, which we'll hopefully have after the balance patch, should not and would not have such problems. |
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Post by Marvel4 on Jul 21, 2012 12:26:33 GMT -5
Assassin - I'm for moving some immunities away but what about nerfing where it really hurts....bullet damage, make AS users have a global damage dropoff (or dropoff sooner) that way with the silencer attached it almost feels like the old stealth vs stopping power days. Or to be a bit more kind to AS users start them with reduced health (in core). That way the AS user has to be super-mindful of grenades, cars, barrels streaks, etc. because they will die faster. WTF. Stop nerfing Assassin. We need a counter to bullshit and cheap support streaks. Changes like this would make it completely useless. Only the immunity to Thermal Scopes should be removed, because those already have enough disadvantages (except on the fucking L86, but it should be rebalanced anyway). |
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Post by Marvel4 on Jul 21, 2012 12:47:10 GMT -5
While the bullet damage loss is a god awful idea, I still think that moving the immunity to HBS and Portable radar to dead silence. Well, I guess that wouldn't be too bad. But I think the Portable Radar is too powerful. Then why not have overkill give your primary 2 proficiencies? Imagine: Assault Rifles + Kick, Extended Mags, and Silencer SMGs + Kick, Range, and Rapid fire LMGs + Kick, Silencer, and Thermal Sniper Rifles + Impact, Focus and whatever it is people use on Sniper Rifles Shotguns + RANGE, DAMAGE, and Extended Mags Overkill with Specialist killstreak Players would love it. You'd be extra deadly from the start, a "Stopping Power" for the new generation. But you have to sacrifice the stealth you've grown so accustomed to taking for granted. I think It's just good enough to make you consider the trade off but not enough to be gamebreaking. It feels like the perfect solution. THIS. I suggested this before and I still think it's a good idea. Also, you should be able to use two secondaries instead of two primaries if you want.  |
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Post by 3nder on Jul 21, 2012 12:56:31 GMT -5
If we really want to nerf Assassin, which I'm against nerfing it since I believe that it is actually the most gun on gun perk in the game (you don't know where I am, and my gun is simply my gun, but do think some of the abilities can be taken away.
Move Thermal immunity to Blind eye, as most KS have a thermal view and BE users would get full immunity to that. This also buffs thermal and differentiates thermal scope from marksman.
Move CUAV immunity to Recon. This is the perk dealing with the spotting of enemies, how doesn't this make more sense?
Move HBS invisibility to Dead Silence, since I assume the fictional HBS uses the sounds of hearts or something yeah.
Emp immunity could go to blast shield for keeping your gun attachments unaffected and maybe the HUD doesn't get taken from Recon.
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Tyzerra
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Post by Tyzerra on Jul 21, 2012 16:54:41 GMT -5
Overkill:
I guess the 2 proficiencies option with Overkill wouldn't be too bad. At first I was a little worried about how it would behave whilst on Specialist Bonus, but then I realised that you'd be gaining the extra proficiency on Spec Bonus anyway - so there's no problem there. Maybe giving Overkill Pro the "add 2 proficiencies to each weapon" will be a nice fix after all then.
HBS/PR Immunity:
I'm still up for moving HBS or PR immunity to Dead Silence. It needs one or the other to help with splitting up Assassin. If you feel that SitRep fits that role better than Dead Silence, then give the PR immunity to SitRep instead. You're already seeing the PR anyway so it's not that much of a benefit that you can hide from it too. It just helps with splitting up Assassin.
CUAV Immunity:
Personally, I don't have a problem with CUAV's. However, if you guys do think it needs a counter due to it being in Support, then I'm really liking Recon giving you the CUAV immunity. Actually gives it a continuous purpose as opposed to just tagging people.
Marksman:
I DEFINITELY think they should take Stability and merge it into Marksman. It would really make the perk worthwhile and would give huge benefits to particular guns like LMG's, M16, etc while still giving other guns a benefit too. I really, REALLY think this needs to go ahead!
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Post by Marvel4 on Jul 21, 2012 16:57:48 GMT -5
I DEFINITELY think they should take Stability and merge it into Marksman. It would really make the perk worthwhile and would give huge benefits to particular guns like LMG's, M16, etc while still giving other guns a benefit too. I really, REALLY think this needs to go ahead! They won't remove things from the game and add it to perks. |
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Tyzerra
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Post by Tyzerra on Jul 21, 2012 17:04:29 GMT -5
Wishful thinking I guess  |
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Post by 8bitasplode on Jul 21, 2012 18:16:16 GMT -5
I wonder how OP the LSW would become if overkill gave players SMG speed.
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Post by Marvel4 on Jul 21, 2012 19:46:39 GMT -5
Another idea: Move the reduction of fall damage from Dead Silence to Extreme Conditioning.
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Jul 21, 2012 20:00:30 GMT -5
Another idea: Move the reduction of fall damage from Dead Silence to Extreme Conditioning. Excellent idea. On the same topic, make it if you fall with dead silence, you don't make the "oops break my leg" noise |
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Post by 8bitasplode on Jul 21, 2012 22:18:35 GMT -5
It wouldn't. It's entirely a long range weapon, speed doesn't benefit it as much as it does a close range gun. AND they have to give up quickdraw. True, I just figured that low movement speed was one of the things that helped keep the LSW from being too good post-patch. Moving fall damage immunity from DS to EC would be pretty interesting. I'm not familiar with the DS/Sitrep balance so I am curious as to whether or not DS is still superior to Sitrep. |
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Jul 22, 2012 0:27:05 GMT -5
Another idea: Move the reduction of fall damage from Dead Silence to Extreme Conditioning. Excellent idea. On the same topic, make it if you fall with dead silence, you don't make the "oops break my leg" noise Thats fair, but it should still make considerable noise. |
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Post by quickbuck on Jul 22, 2012 3:44:42 GMT -5
Move Thermal immunity to Blind eye, as most KS have a thermal view and BE users would get full immunity to that. This also buffs thermal and differentiates thermal scope from marksman. Move CUAV immunity to Recon. This is the perk dealing with the spotting of enemies, how doesn't this make more sense? Move HBS invisibility to Dead Silence, since I assume the fictional HBS uses the sounds of hearts or something yeah. Emp immunity could go to blast shield for keeping your gun attachments unaffected and maybe the HUD doesn't get taken from Recon. I would go for that, sound like good moves. And also move Portable Radar immunity to Dead Silence. Let Assassin keep Marksman immunity. |
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Post by Marvel4 on Jul 22, 2012 4:20:23 GMT -5
Assassin should keep the CUAV and EMP, unless they make them Assault Killstreaks.
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Jul 22, 2012 5:31:43 GMT -5
I don't think anything should be immune to CUAV, but that's just me. My proposed Blind Eye would simply highlight them on the map so they're easier to shoot down.
Thermal Immunity moved to Blind Eye sounds great and makes sense
HBS Immunity moved to Dead Silence sounds perfect too (Old school Ninja). Then you can still have your full stealth setup (BE, Ass, DS) but each individual piece is more vital. Also, having just assassin won't give you 90% stealth coverage like it did before but still covers the most common means of detection. Although we might see an increase in Thermal use (which I'm fine with) and HBS use (ehhh...).
That leaves it with:
-Immunity to UAV, AUAV and PR
-No red name or crosshair (unless Marksman'd)
-Immunity to EMP
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Post by linkinito on Jul 22, 2012 7:10:26 GMT -5
Does anyone like my idea of giving DS Pro the ability to not "inform" the enemy when acting on an objective?
In Dom: The enemy doesn't hear "we're losing A/B/C" when you're capturing one of these points alone. However when you're finished they see the point as captured by the enemy, with the usual "we've lost A/B/C" sound.
in CTF: The enemy doesn't hear "they've taken our flag" when you take the flag. However you are still marked with the flag (should be countered with Blind Eye "a la Ghost" in BlOps?).
In Sabo, Demo, S&D: You don't make any beep sounds when planting/disarming the bomb.
Because you can have every stealth perk and equipment, but the enemy is still informed in some way that you are acting on an objective.
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Post by -3055- on Jul 22, 2012 7:21:13 GMT -5
It's not a bad idea except for the fact that it's not usable in some gamemodes, like team deathmatch, and that just doesn't go with the heart of the cod series.
As for assassin:
Cuav has no counter. BECAUSE YOU CAN SHOOT IT DOWN EXTREMELY EASILY.
Emp is lowered to 30 seconds, has no counter.
Heartbeat sensor is hidden by blind eye, simply because it's an equipment, and portable radar is hidden by dead silence, because it track footsteps. I would say make sitrep pro blind to it like black ops, but that perk is already the king.
EC no falling damage: yes. overkill two proficiencies: yes.
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Post by linkinito on Jul 22, 2012 7:26:20 GMT -5
It's not a bad idea except for the fact that it's not usable in some gamemodes, like team deathmatch, and that just doesn't go with the heart of the cod series. As for assassin: Cuav has no counter. BECAUSE YOU CAN SHOOT IT DOWN EXTREMELY EASILY. Emp is lowered to 30 seconds, has no counter. Heartbeat sensor is hidden by blind eye, simply because it's an equipment, and portable radar is hidden by dead silence, because it track footsteps. I would say make sitrep pro blind to it like black ops, but that perk is already the king. EC no falling damage: yes. overkill two proficiencies: yes. Well some perks are also not usable in H-core: Recon & Assassin in its basic form. You have no killstreaks in Drop Zone which makes Hardline useless. It's to give more love to DS in objective-based modes, which of course wouldn't remove it's primary function: no footstep sounds. Would make it more tactical and stealthy. Btw Stinger and Blind Eye Pro+LMG ftw. |
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Post by quickbuck on Jul 22, 2012 7:53:58 GMT -5
I'm good with overkill having two proficiencies.
But I don't think that should be instead of overkill either moving at the speed of the faster weapon or moving at the speed of the weapon in hand. The primary purpose of overkill should be to use two very different weapons: Sniper or LMG with SMG or Shottie being the prime examples. At the moment that is broken because there is very little advantage over just using an MP as your secondary. Overkill should be about giving you a more versatile class, not just more powerful guns.
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Jul 22, 2012 11:49:25 GMT -5
Then that is it. You can't be fully stealth + combat 3rd perk. If you want to be fully stealth, it's Blind Eye, Assassin and Dead Silence.
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Jul 22, 2012 12:32:39 GMT -5
Exactly. If you use Sitrep, you can be detected by HBS. Fair.
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Tyzerra
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Post by Tyzerra on Jul 22, 2012 13:13:27 GMT -5
Why doesn't someone make a perks chart with all the changes highlighted like we have for the weapons? Once we've all compromised on the perks in a simple chart like the weapons are, the info will be clear and easy to read, ready to grab some attention from IW.
Seems only logical to me.
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Post by ipwn on Jul 23, 2012 5:10:27 GMT -5
My suggestions:
Blind Eye: add invisibility to thermal scopes (moved from assassin); Pro version: Tags also UAV, Advanced UAV, Counter UAV on the radar and flashes them red on screen for easier targeting (sitrep-like)
Scaveneger Pro: Refills one Lethal and one tactical you had equipped ONLY if the corpse had any unused.
Assassin: Remove Immunity to CUAV (Move to Sitrep?); Remove immunity to EMP (moved to Blast Shield); Remove immunity to Heartbeat Sensor (moved to Dead Silence).
Overkill: add Movement speed based on the active weapon at all times. Overkill pro: add spawn with 2x lethal and 2x tactical equipments.
Blast Shield: 40% resistance to explosives and 80% resistance to flash/stun grenades; Blast Shield Pro: 50% Health damage max received from explosions (cars/barrels, Predator Missiles, Stealth Bombers, Airdrop Traps, Reaper missiles, AC-130 missiles, IMS, Precision Airstrike), 50% resistance to EMP (killstreak).
Dead Silence Pro: Add immunity to Heartbeat Sensor.
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Jul 23, 2012 5:15:33 GMT -5
So what is your Assassin Pro? No red name? Seems kinda weak. It is a red perk, after all.
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