One-Off Destiny Questions

[mannon]

I think these are also meant to be sort of preparation for the raid in a way, or at least a step towards it from the other mission types.

[psychlon]

Oct 15, 2014 9:58:17 GMT -5 wings said:

Apparantly, going solo means the health of the enemies are lower as they increase by the number of people in te game. Kind of defeating the point. I don't mind joining randoms who sent me a message but I would rather they don't think they can waltz through it like I have seen people try to do. And that was for the Weekly Heroic on Nexus a few weeks ago. I never join game invites alone since I don't know what it is for.

All they have to do is adding a chat, allowing to "tell"/ "whisper" people which is a totally common thing in MMORPG's, or whenever you decide to look for people it should throw you in a list of people looking for the same so you just hook up and go. Right now, conversation options are rare if you don't have some friends playing the game with you.

[wittyscorpion]

Oct 15, 2014 11:20:13 GMT -5 psychlon said:

Oct 15, 2014 9:58:17 GMT -5 wings said:

Apparantly, going solo means the health of the enemies are lower as they increase by the number of people in te game. Kind of defeating the point. I don't mind joining randoms who sent me a message but I would rather they don't think they can waltz through it like I have seen people try to do. And that was for the Weekly Heroic on Nexus a few weeks ago. I never join game invites alone since I don't know what it is for.

All they have to do is adding a chat, allowing to "tell"/ "whisper" people which is a totally common thing in MMORPG's, or whenever you decide to look for people it should throw you in a list of people looking for the same so you just hook up and go. Right now, conversation options are rare if you don't have some friends playing the game with you.

Just to be clear: Bungie already said that they are working on improvements along these lines, i.e. a) relax on matchmaking restrictions, and b) offer more chat options. Expect to see these changes to come out no later than December.

[mannon]

LFG support would be great and far more social than the current matchmaking for strikes.

[markopolo]

Oct 15, 2014 11:39:37 GMT -5 mannon said:

LFG support would be great and far more social than the current matchmaking for strikes.

amen.

And make it so that whenever you start up a group, that it is supported by voice chat too!

[TheHawkNY]

They don't want you playing with random people every time you play. They want you playing with the same people every time you play. It makes the game more enjoyable, and drives continued engagement.

[mannon]

LFG support would be good for meeting people. I think they could set it up so that all it does is help you put together a fireteam. Once in a fireteam you have voice and can do whatever you want it's just a regular fireteam.

[TheHawkNY]

There are other ways of meeting people. For example, online forums of like-minded people.

You guys realize that we have PS4 DenBros online almost 24/7 that would be happy to jump in a match with you, right?

[mannon]

Players shouldn't be expected to go outside the game, though. The same reason why there should be an in game grimoire, and not everybody has a clan like we do. I usually don't.

[markopolo]

Oct 15, 2014 14:11:04 GMT -5 TheHawkNY said:

There are other ways of meeting people. For example, online forums of like-minded people.

You guys realize that we have PS4 DenBros online almost 24/7 that would be happy to jump in a match with you, right?

I know....

But mannnon is right: a COD style voice when joining a PUG or a LFG menu that one can open up to join (DDO style only because that's really the only MMO I've played) would benefit Destiny tremendously.

[mannon]

I'd settle for an LFG tag you put over your head with maybe a one word description of what you want to do, then you could roam around the tower or patrol and meet up with people. Though I'd prefer to also have an LFG search as well to help you hook up without having to rely on Detiny randomly putting you into the same instance of the same location.

[wittyscorpion]

All of the ways we mentioned are great ways to get players party up: Bungie.net groups, forums like this, LFGs, etc.

However, many of us (which are already way more social than the average crowd) have to play without a party from time to time. The point here is that the game should make matchmaking (or other ways to make LFG easy) an option, and let the players themselves decide whether and when they want to take advantage of that, or opt to party with friends.

As it stands right now, players without party are forced to play the missions solo. Clearly Bungie does not want that to happen either, otherwise they won't be busy patching cheese spots.

End result: a well intentioned decision is now causing the opposite effect of what they were hoping to achieve. Time to face the music. Bungie said repeatedly that they will be closely watching how the games are played and adapt accordingly, this is a good example for them to walk the talk.

[TheHawkNY]

The problem with a really simple matchmaking or LFG system is by making it really easy for people to find a group of random players to play with, you remove any consequences for acting like a complete dipshit. That is not ideal for something that takes a significant amount of time and teamwork. You don't want to be halfway through a Nightfall strike with randoms, get downed, and suddenly see that the players you're paired with have no clue what they're doing before you get sent to orbit. You don't want to get paired with people that don't have mics. You don't want to get paired with players that have mics, but make you wish they didn't. You don't want to get players that will just act like complete imbeciles. And you don't want to get paired with players that will simply leave mid-game without explanation, which they will if there's a simple matchmaking/LFG system, simply because there aren't any consequences. Not having these features gives players incentive to find groups to play with regularly, and having those groups creates consequences for acting like a complete dipshit.

[wittyscorpion]

Oct 15, 2014 16:45:13 GMT -5 TheHawkNY said:

The problem with a really simple matchmaking or LFG system is by making it really easy for people to find a group of random players to play with, you remove any consequences for acting like a complete dipshit. That is not ideal for something that takes a significant amount of time and teamwork. You don't want to be halfway through a Nightfall strike with randoms, get downed, and suddenly see that the players you're paired with have no clue what they're doing before you get sent to orbit. You don't want to get paired with people that don't have mics. You don't want to get paired with players that have mics, but make you wish they didn't. You don't want to get players that will just act like complete imbeciles. And you don't want to get paired with players that will simply leave mid-game without explanation, which they will if there's a simple matchmaking/LFG system, simply because there aren't any consequences. Not having these features gives players incentive to find groups to play with regularly, and having those groups creates consequences for acting like a complete dipshit.

I totally get "there is a good chance that you may get an unpleasant experience from random matchmaking" part. All I am saying is that the players should be given a choice to take that risk, and let us decide whether we want to a) do that, b) play solo, or c) find friends to party with.

If c) is possible, everybody would prefer that. There are circumstances where c) is not possible, in which case I would want to have the option to decide between a) or b). Also, I maintain my position that random matchmaking is one good way for players to find new friends to party with, especially if chat is available.

Another note on matchmaking: while Bungie made sincere effort to make the game playable for friends with big level gap, in reality it is still best played with players at similar level. Even for players who have a lot of friends on their friend list, it may not be easy to find players who are at the similar level, or have not had played daily / weekly missions yet. In that sense, matchmaking is a good complement to get players with similar levels/goals/interests to find each other.

[mannon]

Here's my thing. LFG is not the same as matchmaking in my opinion. A good LFG system should allow you to set your status to LFG and give some brief (one word would do it, maybe select from drop down list) description of what you want to group for, and a good way for people to search other people who have LFG on and match up with like minded and leveled players. At that point you should be able to send a fireteam invite and/or a private message to put together a fireteam.

From here, however, I believe that's all the hand holding it should do. It shouldn't automatically take you into the mission or anything. You have to put the fireteam together and then the leader has to start the mission, and if they want to talk to you first to make sure you're not a total knob then that's how it goes. The whole point is to facilitate social interaction like a dating service, rather than an escort service that skips strait to business.

You could and would still have bad experiences, but it's my opinion that you're more likely to make and keep friends you meet this way than random matchmaking people you can't even talk to while you're in mission anyway. Matchmaking as it is in strikes is all about just filling slots with disposable people you won't talk to and may never meet again. LFG is all about helping you build a network when you don't already have one.

[iw5000]

I think many of you are completely misreading the situation here with allowing randoms as teammates in the Weekly/Nightfall strikes.

Destiny is not CoD.

If there is ONE thing Destiny has nailed perfectly with it's PvE experience that CoD completely whiffs on every year, it's this. Common/shared goals. Players in PvE are just about always working on the same goals, and not only that, there are really no other goals other than what needs done. Some examples. I have joined up with randoms on the harder 'Viper Lv24' strikes many many times, and have not had a single bad experience. And I do mean...not a single one. None. If I die, those randoms come flying over to help out every time without fail. I die, I do the same. It's quite amazing how people will work together, even without voice chat, .....when you both want the same goal (kill the boss). The same thing happens every time I do public events. Randoms will come flying in and immediately help out, not needing a word of direction.

The above would happen 99 out of 100 times in the Weekly/Nightfall strikes too. That 'random' who is level 28, he's grinded just like you. He's jacked off just like you at the time spent to get shards or other prizes. He/she doesn't want to get 30 min deep into a map and then start goofing around. Hell fvcking no. The goal is shared. Kill the boss. He needs you. You need him. For most of these strikes, you don't even necessarily need the voice chat. Just give the bodies.

Compare the above to CoD. I go into a solo Domination game. I am playing for the goal of getting the 'W'. Does CoD have the same shared goals? No. Of my five random teammates, two will be playing to work their KD ratio. One will be sniping in a corner, cause he's a 'sniper'. One will be working on lean/prone/azzplug/etc. kills for a camo and be worthless. One will working on 250 pistol head shot challenge. Yeah. Six people. All six playing to a different goal and the end result is just horrifically bad garbage gameplay.


I love CoD. But I can't for the life of me, understand why the retards at 3A/IW can't understand the above oh so simple concept of shared goals. Well, that's a bit rhetorical. We all know why. The developers at IW/3A dont' give a fvck about gameplay. They are only into trying to entice as many 14 year old boys into playing the game in as many ways as possible.

[markopolo]

Agreed.

Bungie should steal DDO's LFG method. It's super easy

Step 1: Make a group, and you are the groups leader. You can list what mission you want to do, and what classes you need (destiny might not want the last part) Or you can leave the mission part alone if you don't want to list it
Step 2: Make a comment, like: "Looking to do a quick Devil's Lair Raid" or if you leave the mission open, "Farming for Spinmetal, C&G (ie: come and go)
Step 3: People apply to you, and you can accept them or not
Step 4: You as the group leader, can dismiss people or add people as you see fit. So if someone is being a jackass, you can drop them. If you drop group, the second added person becomes group leader. People can also drop group if they feel the group leader is being a jerk or they want to join another group, or something else happens
Step 5: As group leader, let's say one of you Bro's joins my group and I have no idea what I'm doing... I can pass the leadership to you and you can be leader

Now, I know this a buttload easier when using a keyboard than it is on a console controler... but it can be done. And it's so awesomely disgustingly easy.

[daftpunk]

I want matchmaking on the the Nightfall at least ,i can solo it but it can be tedious , i can understand their thinking on the raid but c'mon Bungie stop trolling solo players with no mates like me...

[markopolo]

What console are you on Daft?

[mannon]

I do want a LFG system similar to above, but for Destiny I think it should be streamlined and simplified. Rather than saying you're doing a specific strike or mission I think it should just be generalized down to the basics such as "Patrol", "Story Mission", "Strike", "Heroic Strike", "Weekly Nightfall", ect... Maybe with a one word modifier to it so you can add things like "farm", "events", "speedrun", or such but I'm not sure that's necessary. The exception would be raids which should specify exactly which raid. And maybe you should be able to specify which planet or leave blank.

I think rather than specifying what classes the group is looking for I'd rather see it broken down into roles and a min/max level range. I think with Destiny classes aren't pigeonholed quite as much as you'd expect in an MMORPG so it makes more sense to be flexible there.

It doesn't need to be terribly detailed, just simple and quick to help you find a group and get going set yourself to LFG and let them find you. Destiny is already so complex that if it's not intuitive and easy to use hardly anybody will bother.

[wittyscorpion]

From my point of view the implementation can be quite straight forward:

1) add traditional matchmaking for daily missions and weekly missions, level gated. E.g.: for a 22 story mission, only lvl 20+ are allowed;

2) Raid is tricky and I am fine without matchmaking. I do have an idea of supporting a matchmaking at fire team level: you must have a fire team of 3 with appropriate levels (say 26+ for normal and 28+ for hard) to participate in matchmaking, and the system will pair fire teams up to form the 6 player group. This will make it considerably easier to organize Raid, as you only need to find 2 friends to party up, instead of 5;

3) Allow players to opt into chat on all of the above.

[mannon]

Lobby chat should probably be on by default for raid. Definitely second fireteam matchmaking. That makes a lot of sense to me.

[iw5000]

Oct 16, 2014 13:46:00 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

From my point of view the implementation can be quite straight forward:

1) add traditional matchmaking for daily missions and weekly missions, level gated. E.g.: for a 22 story mission, only lvl 20+ are allowed;

2) Raid is tricky and I am fine without matchmaking. I do have an idea of supporting a matchmaking at fire team level: you must have a fire team of 3 with appropriate levels (say 26+ for normal and 28+ for hard) to participate in matchmaking, and the system will pair fire teams up to form the 6 player group. This will make it considerably easier to organize Raid, as you only need to find 2 friends to party up, instead of 5;

3) Allow players to opt into chat on all of the above.

for what it's worth, regarding finding people.

We wanted to do the Clan bonus/achievement thing last night for HSV1, with the VoG. Get this achievement clan thing done. Bluntz bailed on us ....so Aroc went into some type of online search thing, and then found two players who wanted to help. It only took a few minutes to find them. Both guys older (families, kids, etc..), really nice guys who hadn't done the VoG yet. So the joined the clan. Amazingly enough, the six of us all meshed together very well and we ended up getting it done pretty easily, with the only real issues being new tactics we needed to learn on the 2nd stage (after it had been patched), and a few time warp glitches that had nothing to do with our mistakes with Atheon. Point to all of this is it apparently is already pretty easy to find people to do things like the VoG, if you don't have a full squad. We did it.

[wittyscorpion]

Yes, there are many LFG places on the web now, and Raid organization is no longer difficult with more and more people hitting level 26+ and has experiences in playing Raid. Matchmaking is not necessary, and I suspect that my idea of fire-team-level-matchmaking is not easy to implement.

Bungie already said that they are working on improving social related features. I am sure that they will come up with something decent soon enough.

[iw5000]

Oct 16, 2014 15:40:11 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

Yes, there are many LFG places on the web now, and Raid organization is no longer difficult with more and more people hitting level 26+ and has experiences in playing Raid. Matchmaking is not necessary, and I suspect that my idea of fire-team-level-matchmaking is not easy to implement.

Bungie already said that they are working on improving social related features. I am sure that they will come up with something decent soon enough.

It took Aroc no more than minutes to find both guys. The only wait was getting them into the clan.

[tooros]

Does elemental damage have any positive effect in PvP at all? I'm guessing no but.....

[wittyscorpion]

Oct 18, 2014 4:30:05 GMT -5 tooros said:

Does elemental damage have any positive effect in PvP at all? I'm guessing no but.....

It would be very surprising if they do.

However, this does raise an interesting thought: what if the armors can have elemental strengths/weaknesses, say in Destiny v2?

That would make up some hilarious fights in Crucible, and force players to coordinate with each other

[wittyscorpion]

Q: what does a multi-colored enemy level mean?

Yesterday I ran into some level 26 praetorians with my level 22 character on Venus Patrol, and none of my arsenal can make a dent to them. This makes sense because I was told that 4 levels above = 100% immunity. I was curious to see that these guys' level indicator of 26 are multicolored, does this mean that they are immune to me?

[malgato]

Oct 19, 2014 9:39:21 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

Q: what does a multi-colored enemy level mean?

Yesterday I ran into some level 26 praetorians with my level 22 character on Venus Patrol, and none of my arsenal can make a dent to them. This makes sense because I was told that 4 levels above = 100% immunity. I was curious to see that these guys' level indicator of 26 are multicolored, does this mean that they are immune to me?

Witty, you were at the entrance to the Vault of Glass! The Praetorians are the giant pains-in-the-ass of the raid. They are sort of Minotaurs on steroids. They have void shields, so you need void damage to do work on them. Not sure about the multi color level indicator, though.

[malgato]

Huh. I watched your video clip, Witty. I have never seen that before.