markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Mar 9, 2015 12:44:18 GMT -5
I don't know if a page like this has been created. If it hasn't or needs to be updates, maybe this could stickied (if popular opinion agrees) What are some of your best pages for Destiny resources and help? 1. This section of the board, obvz. 2. Bungie.net/legend section... a great place to look at your stats as well as your gear and vault and moving back and forth (the destiny app is also great for this too but the desktop site is nice and big and imho, easier and crashes less) 3. I'm a fan of DestinyDB for "should you buy it" advice when Xur comes around and the Destiny reddit page for some decent info too. 4. When I'm in the mood, and feel like exploring, the Destiny Ghost Hunter page is a nice resource with descriptions, youtube videos, and it keeps track of what you have and what you don't have... gotta get 'em all to get that Grimlore score up up up! 5. A new one for me, DestinyStatus.com does a nice job of keeping track of all your characters and their raid statuses all in one place; desktop puts them side by side, mobile top to bottom 6. Destiny Public Events... so incredibly useful for marks and mats farming... I cried when they brought out the update that screwed all these times up and the site had to be rebuilt. Have I missed any? I'm sure I have, so share share share!
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Mar 9, 2015 13:28:09 GMT -5
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Post by TheHawkNY on Mar 9, 2015 13:30:57 GMT -5
I'd thought about creating a thread like this but hadn't gotten around to it, good call. I like DestinyStatus.com as well, it's useful to see completion data for all of your characters at once. DestinyPublicEvents.com is another one I use. DestinyDB is great, although DestinyTracker and PlanetDestiny both have databases as well. I sometimes prefer the layout of PlanetDestiny's database. To view the data for a particular game, the tool on DestinyTracker is the best I've found, it has much more complete info than what you can find in the PostGameCarnageReport on Bungie.net. With the updates to move items between characters and the vault, they also update the API, opening up opportunities for developers. The best I've seen is Destiny Item Manager, a Chrome extension that shows your inventory for all characters on one screen and allows you to move items between characters much more easily than using the app or Bungie.net. If you play with a computer nearby, definitely check it out. Another option is Packmule, which has an Android app as well as Chrome extension, but I have not tested.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Mar 9, 2015 13:34:17 GMT -5
Thanks Hawk!
I heard about those chrome extensions but didn't include them because 1) not everyone uses chrome, and 2) you can (at least, to me) accomplish the same thing using bungie.net, clicking on an item, and moving/taking it to/from the vault.
But thanks for those... maybe at home, I'll use those extensions
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Post by TheHawkNY on Mar 9, 2015 13:43:51 GMT -5
The extension is way better. Bungie.net loads slowly. If I don't know which character the item I want is on, it can take a long time to find it. Then I have to move it to the vault, then go to the character I want to move the item to, load that page, and then take it. The extension lets you look through all your items at once, click it, tell it where to move it, and you're done.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Mar 9, 2015 13:46:06 GMT -5
The extension is way better. Bungie.net loads slowly. If I don't know which character the item I want is on, it can take a long time to find it. Then I have to move it to the vault, then go to the character I want to move the item to, load that page, and then take it. The extension lets you look through all your items at once, click it, tell it where to move it, and you're done. Imma have to check it out then
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Post by TheHawkNY on Mar 26, 2015 9:53:39 GMT -5
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Mar 26, 2015 11:20:19 GMT -5
Very cool! Thanks for this
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Mar 26, 2015 11:20:53 GMT -5
Yeah I think Bungie really goofed on this one. The descriptions of sights and scopes are vague and misleading. Why oh why didn't they just pop a number in there for the ADS zoom level or even give us a nice little bar for it? I find in this game that I tend to stick everything on the lowest zoom level I can, because at 1080p in a game with few (if any) long range engagements it's just better to have more situational awareness.
Most of the scopes and sights in this game feel like they were designed for a different game and have an unnecessary (and mostly detrimental) amount of zoom applied to them. It makes me wish I could drop them and go iron sights on a lot of weapons without that option... especially sniper rifles.
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wings
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Post by wings on Mar 26, 2015 16:52:27 GMT -5
I suspect Bungie overly cared for PvP with sniper rifles so they gave them a ridiculous amount of zoom so they become harder to handle than they need to be. Normally I wouldn't think that but then we have that dumb scope glare to tell noobs a sniper is scoping in on you, even though the longest sight lines on the maps should make players expect this and not to be spoon-fed where a sniper might be.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Mar 26, 2015 17:16:46 GMT -5
Maybe... which sucks. Because shooting with tunnel vision kinda sucks. I hate feeling like I have blinders on. I can understand needing to balance snipers out a bit, but making them less fun because they are a bit of a pain in the arse to use sounds heavy handed. Yeah yeah yeah snipers should be long range weapons and not useful at close range blah blah. I understand the idea trying to keep their niche focused on long range. The thing is scoping them so strongly doesn't help. For casuals like me they become difficult to use at close or even near mid range without stopping dead and preaiming right on target before scoping. But more advanced players will just railgun and have hardly any detriment.
As for the red glare, I'm fine with it. Lot's of games have done scope glare for sniper rifles, and I'm basically used to it. We are talking about weapons that can 1 hit kill from distances where it may be difficult to see a threat. In other words weapons that can let someone seemingly kill you out of the blue with no warning. It is a little bit of hand holding, sure. But it's basically SOP these days. Besides it doesn't really stop you from killing someone with a sniper rifle. I think it's more to help players feel like they didn't die without any possibility to save themselves, rather than just suddenly being dead. Not in all cases, of course, but it's a thing. It's there to say, "Hey there's a red glare here, didn't you see it? So... yeah your death was your own fault, yanno." It's not as obnoxious as it is in some games.
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wings
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Post by wings on Mar 26, 2015 17:58:49 GMT -5
Yeah but there are not many really long ranged sight lines in Destiny anyway. So snipers get tunnel vision and lose their mini map when scoped (except P&T), then you become a sitting duck for opposition adding into how radar works for them and they can rush you because of no audible footstep sounds from opposition players. I used to snipe a fair bit but, I cannot really be productive to my team because of how the game works so I choose a shotgun instead, especially as I use the Red Death as a primary now. Plus, the armour piercing rounds change, along with the scope glare, means I will just use a rifle with snapshot to decrease ADS time.
You should not need to be given notice that a OHK weapon is about to kill you. Players need to learn how to get good at the game by their own intuition, although the game has permanent radar anyway so that is that of the window. I can't think of any shooter that uses sniper glare myself so either my memory has lost me or it's some spoonfeeding nonsense first person shooters use as I usually prefer third person shooters. You don't get warnings with shotgunners do you? And yes, you can actually try and defend against yourself with those by having audible enemy footsteps, which the game does not have.
I'd be happy for sniper rifles to have lower zoom options, including a red dot sight, unobtrusive irons and an ACOG, if they had more recoil, like the L96 in Black Ops. It's a bit silly giving ridiculous zoom to make them artificially difficult, but then allow follow-up shots with minor amounts of recoil like with the Prudence II rifle.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Mar 27, 2015 8:00:40 GMT -5
The difference between snipers and shotguns is you usually see the guy with the shotgun right before he blows your head off. Snipers tend to come out of nowhere because they are so far away that it's difficult to make out the player models. Thus they become tactical loitering weapons quite easily. The glare is basically an anti camper feature. I'm pretty sure I've seen it in several games, but I can only think of Battlefield at the moment.
As for learning by intuition I'm not down with that. I don't even think it's so much a learning issue as it is just to cut down on frustration, because getting killed by being sniped is something lots of players really hate. I think if they at least have the chance to see where they are being sniped from it's not so bad and that cuts down on players hating on sniping some. The fact that using your scope can give you away means that is just something for you to consider when sniping. It doesn't really hinder sniping all that much but it vastly improves the experience on the other end, even if you do die. I think if they were really about hand holding they'd have visible laser sights as well.
Destiny is really designed to be casual friendly from the get go, so sniper glint makes a lot of sense to me. Just look at how many people bitch about it anytime there's a half decent sniper rifle in a CoD game. I think CoD devs have just decided it's safer to gimp snipers at this point rather than make them viable and balanced but deal with the haters.
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wings
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Post by wings on Mar 27, 2015 8:33:37 GMT -5
People bitch about snipers in COD because they got outplayed by a better player for a lot of times. Players often cannot hack the thought of being outplayed and COD has its fair share of average to garbage players. Last time I played Gears of War a lot and when I went back to COD I got accused of cheating for having too good an aim with an SMG, I mean really. COD actively compresses the skill gap by a lot of game design decisions so I am not sure how good an example it is. And sometimes seeing shotgunners in Destiny can be a bit awkward at times when they run Blink and maps have sharp turns. Sometimes you can keep your distance, but objective placements will force you into very short range anyway. Now I run a shotgun instead of a sniper rifle for Twilight Gap because of B as I cannot shoot through the metal with AP rounds any longer.
I imagine Battlefield applying sniper glare is to appease to COD players who think sniping is too good when they probably couldn't hit a barn door with one. We know EA has a hard-on for getting their shooters to appeal to COD players (e.g. killstreaks in Medal of Honor and Crysis).
Why would you apply an anti-tactical loitering tool on a weapon designed for tactical loitering? At least unobtrusive irons, an ACOG, and a red dot sight would make mobile usage more practical. In addition, speed up the ADS time and have no accuracy to penalty when strafing then. There is no point in equipping a second weapon if it it will get the token kill, especially with the reduction in secondary ammo, as you might as well just play COD then.
It really is not hard to allow private matches and explore the maps to tell which weapons will dominate in which areas and adjust accordingly. Bots can then be used to help with combat practice. Destiny still shows you a killcam when you are killed anyway so it's not like I am expecting people to be MLG.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Mar 27, 2015 9:08:39 GMT -5
I don't think snipers are necessarily designed for tactical loitering. Sniping can be tactical loitering and synergizes with it, but you can and should be changing positions after every kill or cluster of kills unless you are holding down a key sightline on a choke point.
Private matches and bots would be nice, but I don't think you can rely on those. Many players will want to jump strait into PvP and stay there throughout the entire learning curve... and why not? Bots usually wind up teaching players bad habits because they will dumb down the bots until they are dumb enough to be fun to play, but then that doesn't give them any real practice to prepare them for real matches and lets players develop and reinforce bad habits. By the time they do start playing real players they have a lot to unlearn. Bots also won't be as creative as real players and won't use all the tactics real players do... especially in a game with such diversity in the equipment and loadouts. Private matches are great for getting a good headstart on learning maps so you aren't totally disoriented, but tell you little about spawns and you still have to see it live to get the flow of the map and to see in practice multitudes of common tactics you probably haven't thought of. You still need the core game to have a learning curve and not merely a vertical cliff.
Besides, I just don't see what's so wrong with sniper glint and requiring snipers to have a small amount of extra risk. So you don't get to snipe with absolute impunity from some hidden position. Oh I guess snipers may have to actually think about their defense, and move around to respond to players trying to counter snipe or flank them. That sounds like a positive thing to me. Sure in Halo you didn't have sniper glint. But you did have a giant vapor/smoke trail all the way back to your position every time you fired a shot. Shooting a sniper rifle gave your exact position away to everyone in the area. In Destiny shooting doesn't have the trail, but anyone in the general direction you're aiming can see your position if they happen to look your way. Bit of a trade off, but I'd say Destiny's version is stealthier than Halo and yet snipers have the same hits to kill and I think less recoil.
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Post by iw5000 on Mar 27, 2015 10:21:24 GMT -5
People bitch about snipers in COD because they got outplayed by a better player for a lot of times. Players often cannot hack the thought of being outplayed and COD has its fair share of average to garbage players. Uh, no. People 'bitch' about snipers in CoD because snipers tend to be THE worst team players in the game. If you are playing solo, get stuck with some snipers on your team, it's almost dead certain they won't be capping, planting or doing anything constructive to help the team. They'll just be working odd sightlines in obscure spots, trying to get a few kills that tend to be meaningless to how the game plays out. The above doesn't even take into account, the long history of CoD sniping people,...tending to be the aholes who play the game for the purpose of doing trickshots. Yeah, that didn't do anyone any favors either. And do people get upset when being killed by a someone sniping? Maybe? But it's almost never due to a skill gap difference. If there is anger, it's more a function that most people sniping are fags who work obscure spots, just waiting to get a few meaningless kills. The fact that this fag just waiting 60 seconds there, lying prone, just to get one kill. Yes, that is annoying I suppose. But their 'kill' had nothing to do with actual skill, just patience to wait and a willingless to be worthless to the team.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Mar 27, 2015 11:32:04 GMT -5
This is why I don't favor sniping with impunity. Now I used to do some pretty sneaky campy sniping back in TF2, but for one thing the environments were sparse has hell and there was no prone. You couldn't lay down in grass and blend in. If you wanted to be sneaky you had to get out of people's common line of sight, usually above or below them, and use shadows and cover. And even then you had to not give yourself away with your big red dot about the size of a basketball. (I loved finding clever ways to hide the dot. Skybox was easiest if you were shooting low to high. Usually just poke it around the corner from where you expect people to come out if you have the opportunity. Sometimes you could hide it in water. My favorite was if there was a red light or button I could just aim for that and it would blend in to the already present glow sprite... even more hilarious when it was a button and people would walk up to it then have their brains splattered all over it. heh) In modern games the environments are far too messy to rely on normal visual identification at actual sniping distances so I think resorting to glint or some sort of beams or tracers is fully justified.
I think it's especially a thing in Destiny with it's slower TTK than CoD. It makes 1HK weapons potentially cheesy. And with the prevalence of special ammo and weapons like Ice Breaker that generate their own it means there have to be some balancing factors.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Mar 27, 2015 12:02:46 GMT -5
Or we could just leave this as a thread about Destiny Resources and not about sniping
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Mar 27, 2015 12:11:03 GMT -5
heh Yeah we got pretty far OT. ;p
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Mar 27, 2015 13:30:29 GMT -5
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wings
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Post by wings on Mar 30, 2015 8:45:44 GMT -5
People bitch about snipers in COD because they got outplayed by a better player for a lot of times. Players often cannot hack the thought of being outplayed and COD has its fair share of average to garbage players. Uh, no. People 'bitch' about snipers in CoD because snipers tend to be THE worst team players in the game. If you are playing solo, get stuck with some snipers on your team, it's almost dead certain they won't be capping, planting or doing anything constructive to help the team. They'll just be working odd sightlines in obscure spots, trying to get a few kills that tend to be meaningless to how the game plays out. The above doesn't even take into account, the long history of CoD sniping people,...tending to be the aholes who play the game for the purpose of doing trickshots. Yeah, that didn't do anyone any favors either. And do people get upset when being killed by a someone sniping? Maybe? But it's almost never due to a skill gap difference. If there is anger, it's more a function that most people sniping are fags who work obscure spots, just waiting to get a few meaningless kills. The fact that this fag just waiting 60 seconds there, lying prone, just to get one kill. Yes, that is annoying I suppose. But their 'kill' had nothing to do with actual skill, just patience to wait and a willingless to be worthless to the team. Explain why on other gaming sites people bitch about being quicksco ped in CQC when it usually results in the death of the sniper? At least in Destiny sniper rifles are secondaries so you can use it for the marginal situations available but you are still better off significantly to run a shotgun. In COD, if you want to snipe you usually have to make do with a mediocre secondary because Overkill is either unavailable or more costly than running an assault rifle. Why do players single out faster ADS time on sniper rifles as being OP when their weapons have a better benefit of it and can kill faster than you can react anyway? Same nonsense with shotguns where everyone runs around at 100mph with their SMGs dropshotting around corners when a shotgun is what ought to be used. But I could probably discover plenty of COD players from moaning about being killed by the Models in MW2, Striker in MW3 and the KSG in BO2 - I'm sure the Activision website has plenty of complaints there. And this brings me to the point of granting snipers lower level zoom attachments, you should get people being more productive to the team with sniper usage because they have zoom levels that cater for the game, not Battlefield. At least that is my intention. In modern games the environments are far too messy to rely on normal visual identification at actual sniping distances so I think resorting to glint or some sort of beams or tracers is fully justified. I think it's especially a thing in Destiny with it's slower TTK than CoD. It makes 1HK weapons potentially cheesy. And with the prevalence of special ammo and weapons like Ice Breaker that generate their own it means there have to be some balancing factors. People should open their eyes more? It's not hard in Destiny to know that you could get sniped capping B on Shores of Time from someone behind the rock at C spawn. I should not be given a heads-up that someone is about to kill me as I should be encouraged to minimise my exposure on likely sight lines instead. If that is difficult, then it is an issue of map design. You say it's cheesy, I'd rather the whole opposition run sniper rifles than face a team of Thorn users and I use the Thorn myself. People running the Ice Breaker in PvP are going without the Vex, The Last Word, Red Death, Patience and Time, Truth, and the Thorn. Also, the reduction in secondary ammo in-game just means people will use gear that buffs ammo and get Field Scout on their guns, which I do anyway because it's good for PvE. I do the same with Jolder's Hammer with Field Scout so I still have ammo left when the next heavy ammo drops is inbound and that is usually because I keep my distance and use the radar to my advantage so the average players panic rush on my arrow/red dot. If I go on consierable killstreaks with a machine gun, there's a good chance that enemy players were not particularly bright in trying to take me out. I've lost count the amount of times players run into my sight line when I'm already ADSing with a machine gun on an objective. There's only so much you should cater for 'balance' to a point when people need to up their game.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Mar 30, 2015 9:01:15 GMT -5
Explain why on other gaming sites people bitch about being quicksco ped in CQC when it usually results in the death of the sniper? rant incomming The problem with railgunners is this: - They are anoying to have as teammate, as IW alreaddy pointed out. They usually go 7-38 - But they are also super anoying to have as opponent. If you get railgund, there is literally nothing you can do about it, because the TTK is super fast. That can be super frustrated in games where killstreak rewards are the holy grail. Now that would be okay if quickscoping would be 100% skill, 0% luck. But winning that gunfight against that railgunner has little to nothing to do with skill on both ends of the firefights. All (or maybe 99.99%) of the railgunners you see in COD rely on luck combined with some timing "skill" (the exact right timing to get most of the aim assist or something). Even though the railgunner only wins 1/5 engagements, you still die 1/5. Now this 1/5 has very little to do with positioning and other factors which normally influence who wins a gun fight, and are greatly effected by some luck factor. It feels like walking into a 1/5 lottery, which is fine when I just respawned, but when on a 9 killstreak? That combined with the fact that COD is all about tactical loitering those killstreaks, leaves railgunners as the most hated players in the game. Other than that, players sending hate mail if you use another weapon to kill the 360 noscope idiots in a game of SnD doesn't help either. Or if I actually switched to a sniper they start whining I "Hard scope". WTF, I use snipers as a sniper, you are the one abusing in game mechanics. Grow up kiddo's. I haven't played COD since ghosts, and only thinking of those moments starts to annoy me again. (another example: some players feel like a badass, because they sent me messages like:
- "you only got that "insert killstreak" because I could not find you/I didn't walk into you". or just a simple: "you suck, bla bla" - me: okay good for you, come and find me - "wanna do 1v1?" - sure
I kill them a few times:
- "whine whine you are using "x". Quickscoping bla bla bla" While we didn't even discuss quickscoping....
Really, Quickscoping is (one off) the cancers which slowly started to ruin COD games for me.TLDR: Snipers are cool, railgunrs are gay This is such bullshit, on those maps there is only a limited number of line of sights, true. But there are also the bigger maps (which are currently DLC/combined arms only). So you say map design is wrong, because snipers actually get some places to hide? lollol. They countered that with the glare, don't turn things around. Snipers should not be restricted by maps only, because then you get that COD railgun bullshit, because there is only like 5 sniper spots per map, somebody needs to camp or railgun. Both not fun to play with/against. I picked up BF_hardline, and it is actually a relief that snipers are actually snipers, who have a choice where to hide. Just like they should, and as it is in Destiny. On topic: Sniper Glare is a very good design choice IMO, as snipers are really really strong on the big maps. Don't know why somebody could be against something like that in games with open maps like destiny (not COD like, where almost every map is a combination of limited x number of roads/sniper spots). This game would become hide and seek without those. EDIT: Lol, that wasn't even on topic I suppose. Sorry polo :-3 Thanks for the helpfull links
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wings
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Post by wings on Apr 3, 2015 3:26:30 GMT -5
Explain why on other gaming sites people bitch about being quicksco ped in CQC when it usually results in the death of the sniper? rant incomming The problem with railgunners is this: - They are anoying to have as teammate, as IW alreaddy pointed out. They usually go 7-38 - But they are also super anoying to have as opponent. If you get railgund, there is literally nothing you can do about it, because the TTK is super fast. That can be super frustrated in games where killstreak rewards are the holy grail. Now that would be okay if quickscoping would be 100% skill, 0% luck. But winning that gunfight against that railgunner has little to nothing to do with skill on both ends of the firefights. All (or maybe 99.99%) of the railgunners you see in COD rely on luck combined with some timing "skill" (the exact right timing to get most of the aim assist or something). Even though the railgunner only wins 1/5 engagements, you still die 1/5. Now this 1/5 has very little to do with positioning and other factors which normally influence who wins a gun fight, and are greatly effected by some luck factor. It feels like walking into a 1/5 lottery, which is fine when I just respawned, but when on a 9 killstreak? That combined with the fact that COD is all about tactical loitering those killstreaks, leaves railgunners as the most hated players in the game. Other than that, players sending hate mail if you use another weapon to kill the 360 noscope idiots in a game of SnD doesn't help either. Or if I actually switched to a sniper they start whining I "Hard scope". WTF, I use snipers as a sniper, you are the one abusing in game mechanics. Grow up kiddo's. 1. The counter to having bad teammates is to play in a party. Job done. Don't have friends? Find some or play FFA. That's why the game mode exists. In addition, using sub-optimal setups mean that you are automatically disadvantaging yourself in-game anyway. Sure, you might not go 7-38 like a quicks coper, but unless you are tryh arding, you are going to be giving away extra kills. 2. TTK including the time it takes to scope in and the hipfire accuracy should mean that they are going to lose. The further away they are, the less likely they are going to kill you. If they got that close to kill you by quick coping they'd have killed you with another weapon anyway. If you want fewer people to quick scope, then having a decent secondary weapon for CQC and fast weapon swap times would actually mitigate the need to quick scope if you don't do it by default, i.e in case swapping swapping weapons. The only time I've quick scoped was in Black Ops 2 because I was caught off-guard and doing anything else meant death. Why was I caught off-guard? Oh pillow feet from enemy players and nerfed secondaries. 3. Search and Destroy has been plagued by those players for years, so I thought you'd be used to it by now. Block messages from everyone but friends if you want. I used to but then if I wanted a serious game mode I'd just play CTF in COD personally. 4. Not sure if quick scoping is abusing any game mechanics, just you don't like it. Get rid of the ability to hipfire, apart from shotguns, then problem solved. I'd rather C4 be planted like it is in Rainbow Six: Siege rather than tossed like a Quarterback in American football (defeating the purpose of a frag grenade) but I don't consider it to be abusing game mechanics there. Plus, the C4 has always been tossed in COD so I would be used to it by now, although Ghosts was my last COD game so I don't know if it has changed. What I meant was that if capping was made far too risky where it was a death trap then that should be changed. I don't play the DLC maps or Combined Arms although I've played on Bastion when it was in the Control playlist. I can only think of one major sniper sight line from A though. Third person shooters don't give sniper glare so it's not exactly a universal concept in 'balance', unlike for example, limited range on shotguns. It's probably thought of as training wheels by third person shooter players. You also have killcams as visual intel and usually maps will offer routes that avoid where snipers post up allowing flanking opportunities anyway.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Apr 3, 2015 3:52:04 GMT -5
1. The counter to having bad teammates is to play in a party. Job done. Don't have friends? Find some or play FFA. That's why the game mode exists. In addition, using sub-optimal setups mean that you are automatically disadvantaging yourself in-game anyway. Sure, you might not go 7-38 like a quicks coper, but unless you are tryh arding, you are going to be giving away extra kills. Very true, but you don't always have the time to team up, sometimes I just wanted to play a few quick games. 2. TTK including the time it takes to scope in and the hipfire accuracy should mean that they are going to lose. Not true, ADS+shoot with sniper is faster then ADS+shoot with other weapons in almost every COD game. The further away they are, the less likely they are going to kill you. While true, this can be said for any weapon If they got that close to kill you by quick coping they'd have killed you with another weapon anyway. Not true, look at the TTK stats again If you want fewer people to quick scope, then having a decent secondary weapon for CQC and fast weapon swap times would actually mitigate the need to quick scope if you don't do it by default, i.e in case swapping swapping weapons. Not true, even in the days of akimbo FMG's, there were plenty of railgunners The only time I've quick scoped was in Black Ops 2 because I was caught off-guard and doing anything else meant death. This is a perfectly fine way to try your luck in my oppinion, but that is not really what most railgunners are doing. Why was I caught off-guard? Oh pillow feet from enemy players and nerfed secondaries. Once I got a decent headset, I finally realized how OP sound was in the MW series. BO2 had very very strong secondaries though.... (fastest TTK other then OHK weapons) 3. Search and Destroy has been plagued by those players for years, so I thought you'd be used to it by now. Sounds like a super valid argument Block messages from everyone but friends if you want. I don't mind messages, there are also nice ppl in this world you know. Some random teammates have become trusted battle brothers over the years, which would have not been possible without it. Other than that, I don't mind some healthy competition. I liked being challenged to 1v1, but only to find out every single guy wants to railgun is just a waste of a game. I used to but then if I wanted a serious game mode I'd just play CTF in COD personally. never played ctf much4. Not sure if quick scoping is abusing any game mechanics, just you don't like it. Quickscoping is using a very small sweat spot in aim assist mechanics, call it what you want Get rid of the ability to hipfire, apart from shotguns, then problem solved. Quickscoping is not hip firing... I'd rather C4 be planted like it is in Rainbow Six: Siege rather than tossed like a Quarterback in American football (defeating the purpose of a frag grenade) but I don't consider it to be abusing game mechanics there. Plus, the C4 has always been tossed in COD so I would be used to it by now, although Ghosts was my last COD game so I don't know if it has changed. Never did use C4 much, I do agree with you thoughWhat I meant was that if capping was made far too risky where it was a death trap then that should be changed. I don't play the DLC maps or Combined Arms although I've played on Bastion when it was in the Control playlist. I can only think of one major sniper sight line from A though. Third person shooters don't give sniper glare so it's not exactly a universal concept in 'balance', unlike for example, limited range on shotguns. It's probably thought of as training wheels by third person shooter players. You also have killcams as visual intel and usually maps will offer routes that avoid where snipers post up allowing flanking opportunities anyway. No idea what you are trying to say here, but having big open maps and scope glare is a design choice, stating that ppl should open their eyes more, or that maps should be re balanced because snipers are not easy visible, only to state that scope glare is lame. Sounds ridiculous. It is a very bad idea IMO to have open maps, very strong snipers TTK wise, and have no glare or other way of balancing.
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wings
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Post by wings on Apr 3, 2015 4:53:08 GMT -5
Sound is OP now? In a game that has uses a lot of visual intel, including real-time wallhacks usually referred to as Doritos? Then you have red squares over enemies when using a player controlled streaks, cameras as a tactical piece of equipment, constant placement on the mini map upon firing your weapon unless you equip a suppressor, killcams etc. May be I'm the only one thinking this, but if you start spoonfeeding your players a lot of visual aids in tracking targets, they will want to be spoonfed audible ones too - look at how COD has developed over the years, from the killcam and thermal in COD4 to the Target Finder in Black Ops 2. Anyone can run around with an MSMC without being heard and do well. I'm fine with reducing audible sounds, but less mobile weapons should be made more mobile as a result, otherwise it is an indirect nerf. I'd hate to have navigated the maps in Black Ops 2 using a machine gun without Adjustable Stock, and going without a launcher can be risky, so having a good secondary is ideal. Black Op2's secondaries were overall pretty strong but, with them costing the same amount as a primary, the nerfs to the pistols may be seen as unwarranted. ADS+shoot sniper = 0.4s (usually, more in Ghosts IIRC), ADS+shoot AR = 0.3s. Sniper rifles kill instantly assuming the correct OHK multiplier is on target, and ARs kill in about 0.1-0.3s within their minimum kill range, which is your most likely range at being railgund. So I don't know if I have missed anything as I haven't had much sleep for a few days (punishment for doing 600 fusion rifle kills in one day I guess). Also, if COD didn't promote run and gun so much I'd probably see fast ADS times for sniper rifles more of an issue. I was actually surprised Destiny allowed Snapshot to be available for sniper rifles since TTK is higher for ARs in that game, but then they made the Vex Mythlocast have one of the fastest TTK and have the strongest aim assist too anyway. As for the messages, I agree, but if the bad ones bother you that much then that is the only choice. Just ignore them. It's not like they're going to harm you physically. Anyone can be a keyboard warrior. You should play CTF more. The only reason I didn't play it much in Black Ops 2, apart from the forced max prestige to unlock everything, was the scoring method. If it was kept the same from MW2 (same as MLG for BO2), I would have played more. You won't get many railgunners there. Your biggest issue would be players drawing out the game needlessly for killstreak mongering, like in Demolition and Sabotage. What I'm saying is that on the big open maps where snipers post up, just navigate the map where you are unseen. I haven't played all the maps on all game modes (I should play some Salvage for the Grimoire as that is back) but I find it very easy to use all the cover to run around with my shotgun on the maps I usually play. The scopes usually have a lot of zoom, so going unseen should be made easier and the scope glare will probably get snipers to have snappier reflexes anyway. You're not going to want to dragscope staying scoped for too long only to be picked off by a Red Death user, speaking as a Red Death user myself. I'll play the Combined Arms maps when I get round to it as it would make a change from being killed by a shotgun (although their OHK range is fine for me)
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Apr 3, 2015 5:32:41 GMT -5
Sound is OP now? Jup Buy a decent headset, it really really feels like cheating after playing 5 years without. In a game that has uses a lot of visual intel, including real-time wallhacks usually referred to as Doritos? Then you have red squares over enemies when using a player controlled streaks, cameras as a tactical piece of equipment, constant placement on the mini map upon firing your weapon unless you equip a suppressor, killcams etc. May be I'm the only one thinking this, but if you start spoonfeeding your players a lot of visual aids in tracking targets, they will want to be spoonfed audible ones too - look at how COD has developed over the years, from the killcam and thermal in COD4 to the Target Finder in Black Ops 2. I never had a problem with target finders, and never used cold blooded. The thing completely screws up your periferal vision, and costs a attachment slot + point. It was a noob helping tool, which only limited their learning curve in the end IMHO Anyone can run around with an MSMC without being heard and do well. If you say so I'm fine with reducing audible sounds, but less mobile weapons should be made more mobile as a result, otherwise it is an indirect nerf. So mobility balanced with effective range/magazine size/aim assist range is not enough? I always did better with an AR personally. And as SMG's can ADS walk without much penalty anyway, I really don't see your point. loud footsteps only makes mobile weapons stronger I'd hate to have navigated the maps in Black Ops 2 using a machine gun without Adjustable Stock Adjustable stock master race, and going without a launcher can be risky, so having a good secondary is ideal. Black Op2's secondaries were overall pretty strong but, with them costing the same amount as a primary, the nerfs to the pistols may be seen as unwarranted. What nerfs? I always bought the KAP for my AR classes, it was a steal IMHO. Comparing a primary with a secondairy as both costing one point is useless, as you can't have two primaries for two points. ADS+shoot sniper = 0.4s (usually, more in Ghosts IIRC), ADS+shoot AR = 0.3s. Sniper rifles kill instantly assuming the correct OHK multiplier is on target, and ARs kill in about 0.1-0.3s within their minimum kill range, which is your most likely range at being railgund. So I don't know if I have missed anything I am sorry bro but I think you did, ttk of AN94 was 0.192, ADS was 0.25 so that is more than the 0.4 of sniper rifles as I haven't had much sleep for a few days (punishment for doing 600 fusion rifle kills in one day I guess). Also, if COD didn't promote run and gun so much I'd probably see fast ADS times for sniper rifles more of an issue. I was actually surprised Destiny allowed Snapshot to be available for sniper rifles since TTK is higher for ARs in that game, but then they made the Vex Mythlocast have one of the fastest TTK and have the strongest aim assist too anyway. My point was that meeting a railgunner is like playing russian roulette, while you won't die most of the time, it is extremely annoying in a game where kill-streaks are half the fun. Snipers kill faster, so when they get that lucky shot, there is nothing you can do. As for the messages, I agree, but if the bad ones bother you that much then that is the only choice. Just ignore them. It's not like they're going to harm you physically. Anyone can be a keyboard warrior. They don't really bother me, hell, about every messages makes my day. Being accused of being a cheeter is great when you don't, just like a GG or a wanne team up is cool. What I hate is that every healthy competition in form of a 1 vs 1 all of a sudden was about quick scoping, even though both players used other guns in the game where the messages started... Which is baloney You should play CTF more. The only reason I didn't play it much in Black Ops 2, apart from the forced max prestige to unlock everything, was the scoring method. If it was kept the same from MW2 (same as MLG for BO2), I would have played more. You won't get many railgunrs there. Your biggest issue would be players drawing out the game needlessly for killstreak mongering, like in Demolition and Sabotage. Sounds good, but I won't be playing COD for a long time I think. I bought a PS4 and all my COD games are on 360, and when I play on my 360, it will ALWAYS be titanfall >>> COD. Maybe if the next COD will be good I will buy it for PS4. What I'm saying is that on the big open maps where snipers post up, just navigate the map where you are unseen. I haven't played all the maps on all game modes (I should play some Salvage for the Grimoire as that is back) but I find it very easy to use all the cover to run around with my shotgun on the maps I usually play. The scopes usually have a lot of zoom, so going unseen should be made easier and the scope glare will probably get snipers to have snappier reflexes anyway. You're not going to want to dragscope staying scoped for too long only to be picked off by a Red Death user, speaking as a Red Death user myself. I'll play the Combined Arms maps when I get round to it as it would make a change from being killed by a shotgun (although their OHK range is fine for me) Glad to see another player who doesn't thinks shotguns are OP in destiny, I don't always play objective games in Destiny, your logic seems right about objective games, but TDM was already littered with enough snipers back in the day when the big maps where in the normal rotation.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Apr 3, 2015 9:26:22 GMT -5
So AN94 has 0.192+0.25=0.442 TTK vs 0.4 for sniper railgunner assuming they can get the 1HK. 0.042 seconds advantage doesn't sound that great to me considering he is to be taking hits the entire time. That means he has to maintain his aim through the flinch and visual distractions and manage to get the 1HK. If he lands a shot on a 2HK area then he's dead. If he's slow he's dead. If the AR see's him first he's dead. If the flinch kicks in at the right time and throws off his shot he's dead. If he overcompensates for the flinch he's dead. All the while playing a style that doesn't particularly work out well if you make mistakes.
Now I'm not saying quickscoping is the epitome of CoD skill... it isn't. It's not that hard with the right weapons in the right games. But complaints about it seem pointless to me. AR's offer a far simpler means of killing people and are more forgiving of mistakes and sloppy aim. If there is a noob weapon in CoD it is the AR, hands down. *shrug*
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Apr 3, 2015 13:36:17 GMT -5
I am not saying it is harder at all. What I am saying is that a (big) part of it is a lottery. Which can be annoying as hell in a game like cod, both as friendly and enemy
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Apr 3, 2015 15:19:54 GMT -5
I can kind of see that because it's largely all or nothing, but I still see every encounter as a bit of a lottery unless somebody has the jump on the other person. I think it's just that when it happens vs another AR or an SMG you have to take several hits before you die and because they kill you incrementally you get some feedback that you may be loosing the fight before you actually die. With a quickscoping sniper you are automatically winning the fight until you're dead, and that's the first clue that you've lost it. There's not feedback, just result. It's still a contest of both luck and skill, but without that feedback losing the encounter feels like you got cheated, even if they had you dead to rights.
It's kind of like how some players hate the smartpistol in Titanfall even though it has a worse TTK than pretty much everything in the game, is largely countered by cloaking, and has almost no long range capability due to the aimed fire damage nerf. But people don't like getting killed by it so it must be bad, right?
Also... personally I think killstreaks are way out of hand, and they have always pissed me off anyway. Why? Because even when I was quite good and often getting 3 or 3 KD games I still wasn't getting the high killstreaks. Killstreaks don't encourage you to kill more than you die, they encourage you to not die at all costs. I find the KS system frustrating these days, especially now that I've played Titanfall and to some lesser extent Destiny. I think the days of CoD being my #1 multiplayer game are over.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Apr 3, 2015 16:02:59 GMT -5
Regarding sniping in Destiny - it's not really feasible to buff because of how unbalanced some of the maps are. They are defensive weapons, and are already strong enough that a team determined to hold down an area like the B-C spawn on Shores of Time can use them to do so.
The scope glare is necessary to make the game not annoying. It also is not really a large detriment to snipers when used correctly. At proper distance, an enemy will not be able to engage and kill a sniper without using a sniper rifle themselves. It allows skilled opponents to know that they need to find cover; however, it gives unskilled opponents the stupid belief that they can and should engage the sniper, and leads to them running back to their death repeatedly.
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