bradman
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Post by bradman on May 12, 2015 11:18:25 GMT -5
I think MM in raids would lead to a lot of people abandoning raiding altogether because their initial experience would most likely be poor. I'm convinced that is the rationale from Bungie, that end game content participation would drop off with MM.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on May 12, 2015 11:19:24 GMT -5
To add on that last part:
I'm actually a little disappointed in destiny, but that's just because I see the game that it could be. That doesn't change the fact that I enjoyed my time with the game a lot. Nor does it make my arguments less valid. I can easily give you a list full of critism about destiny. The reason I keep replying to your trolling attempts is because I actually have a different opinion than you. Or because I don't want ppl looking at this board to think we lost our ways to formulate arguments to back up our statements. I am not a destiny fanboy, I am a denkirson.proboards fanboy. I want this place to stay the high educated board it always was.
Nevertheless, the game that we got is great and we shouldn't keep complaining about the game we would like to have instead. Providing constructive criticism is another thing altogether, that's fine. But the constant whining and hyperbole has to stop. Hundreds of thousands of people worldwide play these games. Destiny has millions of active players (16 million activated accounts but not all of those will be active), which is a lot for a sci-fi shooter that isn't call of duty and that is only available on consoles. And yet some people have already cemented the "fact" that destiny is a flop into their heads. It's really ridiculous.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on May 12, 2015 11:28:19 GMT -5
I can see your point Mannon. I don't completely agree with it though. The lfg site I use is very very simple. (https://www.destinylfg.net/) All I need to do is the following: Go to www.destinylfg.net/click "post my group" (The following typing only has to be done once! The website saves it and I never change it) type: lvl 32 LFG, looking for a fast run, have all weapons needed choose nightfall or raid you want to play click "save" DONE! the friend requests and party invites flow in. Most of the time I do this while flying to the tower, and by the time I land at the tower, I already have a few invites most of the time! If anything, it is faster/more convenient than in game LFG if you ask me. It literally takes 10 seconds on my mobile phone, and it doesn't force me out of the activity I am doing in game at that moment. (sometimes I am still in patrol finishing a bounty while using LFG to create a raid group) But then again, I can see your point. Some ppl might have great uses for in game LFG. But in all honesty, I don't think that many ppl will use it at this point in time. Not wanting LFG in game in favor of other stuff might be a bit selfish though, and as I don't have much game programming experience, I can't tell how much resources it will cost.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on May 12, 2015 11:35:08 GMT -5
I think MM in raids would lead to a lot of people abandoning raiding altogether because their initial experience would most likely be poor. I'm convinced that is the rationale from Bungie, that end game content participation would drop off with MM. Lol, why couldn't I explain that in just two sentences? Totally agree
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 12, 2015 11:56:51 GMT -5
If it's particularly robust in game LFG could be a good bit of work. However a few really simple versions probably wouldn't take much. I think the simplest is just to have some means or other of turning on LFG and specifying an activity and then having the game do MM in social spaces for you with similar LFG peeps. So basically you say what you want to do and go to the tower and are surrounded with like minded guardians.
I can see how the LFG sites can offer something even more efficient, certainly. But something in game wouldn't take away from that and could benefit a larger population. And a basic version like that probably would be pretty easy to implement with a minimum of resources. It would also add an actual social aspect to the tower.
On a separate note: Personally I don't even know what "have all weapons needed" really means. heh I have several weapons both legendary and exotic... but how would I know what ones are "needed"? If that's what you gotta do to get the invites then li'l ol' level 31 me probably wouldn't fare so well. I also think I'm more representative of players that would benefit most from in game LFG. We're talking about a higher proportion of casuals who probably don't go to Reddit or other sites, maybe don't even watch youtube videos, and only know what to do in a raid if they have actually run it before with their friends. In other words, mostly people who don't engage with Destiny outside of the game it-self. Personally, I'm only an honorary casual, due to time constraints. Clearly since I do read this board and Reddit I'm not completely in the same boat, but I know there are people who are and I feel bad for them if they don't have a lot of friends that play.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on May 12, 2015 12:08:11 GMT -5
That LFG tower is actually a great idea! Didn't think of that. Something like this (just stealing your idea here without any shame ) Set destination to tower press triangle/y for LFG mode choose activity fly to tower and meet ppl who want to play that activity The tower should probably be ~ 12 player max to avoid complete clusterFoxtrots, especially of ppl are using mics. As soon as you have a full fireteam for your activity, you should be automatically kicked to orbit. A part of the tower should probably be closed off to avoid ppl from staying there without the need to LFG. Only vault, bounty, cryptarch and postmaster should be available I think. That there is a great idea, which will probably not cost much resources at all.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 12, 2015 12:45:30 GMT -5
I'd rather not close off areas since people might well have Tower business to do while there. The automatic kick to orbit for a full team seems like a decent nudge to clear people out to make room for more LFG guardians, it should have a fairly long timer, though. In case guardians are still taking care of tower business. I'd say give them 60 seconds to finish up what they're doing and get ready. That's a lot of time, but it really wouldn't hurt much to have that full team hang around the extra 60 seconds.
You could have each area of the tower have it's own voice channel to cut down on cross chatter. By default you should switch to fireteam voice instead of public when you accept an invite as well. You'd have to opt back to public. Since you really only need the leader in public for recruiting that should help keep chatter down as well. Given the instancing by activity and preferably also by difficulty, it shouldn't get too bad in there. If it's a problem some other limits could be put in place I suppose.
Definitely just wanna keep it simple, though.
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Post by iw5000 on May 12, 2015 13:02:45 GMT -5
I think MM in raids would lead to a lot of people abandoning raiding altogether because their initial experience would most likely be poor. I'm convinced that is the rationale from Bungie, that end game content participation would drop off with MM. Well seeing how only like 15% of the people who played destiny have raided...how well would you say Bungie's current direction is going? Best part of the game, and most of the player base hasn't used it.
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bradman
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Post by bradman on May 12, 2015 14:34:00 GMT -5
Less than 10% have equipped an exotic weapon. How well is that going? I'm only theorizing intent. I probably would only have raided using MM if it was there. I would have reached the conclusion that it blows.
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Post by iw5000 on May 12, 2015 15:34:14 GMT -5
Less than 10% have equipped an exotic weapon. How well is that going? Different topic and mostly irrelevant. One can use whatever gun they wish when accessing the game. Right. I know you are theorizing. But your 'fear' of more people leaving Raiding if MM is allowed is irrational. People who have friends to group up with, nothing will change for them, if a MM option was put on the menu (play with a group, solo, or have a MM option) So you would be unaffected. And the other 85% of the people who haven't raided yet? Maybe they now give a shot, if there's an easier way to get into it. And you know what? Even if their experience isn't good, they fail, it doesn't work out...at least they got a taste of things. It might inspire them to try a little harder. Maybe group up with some other people. Find better people. If you want Destiny to stick around, it's in your best interest to have everyone trying all parts of the game. I can't believe I am even debating this with some of you people. How some of you like 'fear' people having an opportunity. You have nothing to be scared of. Why be scared? Are you worried that your accomplishments will be lessened? If you have groups you do Raids with, they wouldn't be affected if an open MM menu option was presented. It's just giving people options.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 12, 2015 16:15:18 GMT -5
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qupie
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Post by qupie on May 13, 2015 5:29:33 GMT -5
On a separate note: Personally I don't even know what "have all weapons needed" really means. heh I have several weapons both legendary and exotic... but how would I know what ones are "needed"? If that's what you gotta do to get the invites then li'l ol' level 31 me probably wouldn't fare so well. I also think I'm more representative of players that would benefit most from in game LFG. We're talking about a higher proportion of casuals who probably don't go to Reddit or other sites, maybe don't even watch youtube videos, and only know what to do in a raid if they have actually run it before with their friends. In other words, mostly people who don't engage with Destiny outside of the game it-self. Personally, I'm only an honorary casual, due to time constraints. Clearly since I do read this board and Reddit I'm not completely in the same boat, but I know there are people who are and I feel bad for them if they don't have a lot of friends that play. I just type this, nobody ever asks which weapons you actually have or checks. I have only had the problem once: I didn't bring my Gjallarhorn to crota normal. two guys started whining I was planning on using a legendary tracking rocket. I simply quit. People who think you need a gjallarhorn for that kind of stuff are the ppl you don't want to play with anyway. five legendary tracking rockets are more than sufficient. Other than that one instance, I think I have done about 25 LFG nightfalls, 10 LFG crota's and 10 LFG VoG Hard modes. And in there nobody asked about my weapons. Hell, half the nightfalls ppl don't even have mics in. I just type it to avoid the question: "do you have good weapons". But really, to answer your question more clearly I will try and write down what (I think) weapons you need to be a valid team member. Nightfall: Try to be lvl 30 at least, I often took lvl 28 through nightfall, but the lower the level the longer it will take to find a fireteam. But as long as you are 30+, you will be okay. At least a special and heavy weapon with the right burn. Preferably legendary, but rare with burn is better than legendary without burn. If you have at least that, you can contribute to the team. A burn primary is a big plus though. VoG Hard: Lvl 30+, icebreaker (for oracles checkpoint), a decent heavy weapon for atheon (preferably corrective measure, TL or SGA). Never use handcannons on oracles, fusion rifles are great against oracles. Crota normal: Any tracking launcher is all you need, icebreaker is great for the first half. That is it. If you have those tools, you are a valid teammate. If somebody says you are missing "x", leave the fireteam, they are scrubs who can't hold their own. Having seen some youtube footage about the raid helps too. And be honest if it is your first run and follow directions. Allot of ppl on LFG love taking virgins through the raid. As far as I know, you have more than sufficient weapons to complete anything up there.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on May 13, 2015 5:32:10 GMT -5
edit: triplepost
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qupie
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Post by qupie on May 13, 2015 6:10:52 GMT -5
edit: triplepost
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Post by iw5000 on May 13, 2015 7:38:41 GMT -5
Crota would be fine with an in-game LFG matchmaking service.
In fact, did it last night with my Titan. I did the weekly with two randoms (MM). No one used their mics. Sent them a message through the XB1 ..."Do a NF?". They both said yes. After some connecting, we formed a fireteam and did the Nightfall. No one talked again. I then thought why not, and sent this..."Do Crota normal?". Both said yes, and we started that. At the bridge section, people started talking. The three of us got to Crota in about 25 min and then unfortunately, one guy had to leave. None of us had GHorns, so that ended that.
Nightfall, Crota.... put it under Matchmaking.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on May 13, 2015 7:45:56 GMT -5
I don't think they will ever put crota in MM and VoG not in MM. That would mean they would have to admit crota is less complicated than VoG. They will never do that.
Other than that, I still think normal MM would be horribly rage inducing at some phases. Especially bridge section and Crota himself. Like bradman said, Bungie will probably never add MM to raids because it will lower the quality of the content in the consumers eyes. And I actually agree with that decisions.
LFG would be welcome though. Just to have some kind of "filter" and means to kick some individuals. Just like the weekly was your "filter". If one of them was AFK, or only had 10 kills at the end, you would probably have not invited him into NF/Crota.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 13, 2015 7:53:00 GMT -5
Sounds like I'm better equipped than I thought. My last only time through VoG I was definitely poorly equipped. The only legendary primaries I had at the time were hand cannons and my Vanquisher AR, all of which were terrible for Oracles. I also did not have Ice Breaker yet or even any legendary snipers, just blues.
Of course I'm a bit weak on NF due to a lack of elemental primaries since I've only run the single raid and got literally no weapons or armor for it. ;3
But I am better off than before. I've got Gheleon's Demise for a scout and I managed to nearly fully upgrade my Red Death in Iron Banner. I've also got a Universal Remote though it's not upgraded.
I'm actually much better kitted out on Specials. My Ice Breaker is nearly maxed out along with my Invective. Plan C needs some work, and Pocket Infinity hasn't even been touched. But I also have several Efrideet's Spears and my Murmur is well upgraded. Also have nearly maxed Felwinter's Lie.
For Heavy's I'm not terribly strong. My best MG is a Harm's Way and my most used RL is a Radegast's Fury with tracking. It's the only one I have with tracking, but generally it'll do. I do have an SGA. I have literally never used it so I really need to upgrade it. Gawd it's a pain upgrading exotics! It's not so much that they need a ton of XP as the fact that you have to do them one at a time. At least I made a lot of progress on a few during IB from turning in bounties. I don't normally turn in nearly so many bounties, but I was actually able to complete nearly every IB and Crucible bounty two days in a row. (I always struggle with a few like heavy headshots... I just don't get the heavy ammo enough. I try, but I'm often respawning or just a few feet too far away when they activate it. And a lot of the time I'm on the wrong side of the map and running headlong at the gathered enemy team at their heavy ammo doesn't work as well for sunbro as it does voidbro. heh Though... I could probably still make it work if I'm rocking radiant skin.)
It looks like I'm better kitted for raids than NF. ;3
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Post by iw5000 on May 13, 2015 7:57:33 GMT -5
The weeklies and NF's are on rails. Unless someone is deliberately AFK'ing, anyone can help and people do. As I said days ago, the help% is much higher on that stuff than say the Crucible. These things are easy. Keep moving and shooting. So from my end last night (finding two randoms), I really didn't filter anyone. They were the first two available warm bodies. All I needed was someone to revive me in the NF, as I wanted to play aggressively and get it done fast.
I see your point about not wanting to admita lessor product, but with the new stuff out...what's the big deal? The new stuff isn't even Raids. So that perception is now gone. BoG, Crota, ToS, ...they are all their own unique things. And Crota is essentially an on rails strike. Each section is simply. Abyss? Just run. Bridge? I'll get across the bridge solo, I don't give a fvck what the others do (die, follow me, etc..). Thrallway? Only one way to go. And even Deathsinger. This takes coordination, but it's not rocket science. Our group last night got it in the 2nd attempt. No Ghorns.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on May 13, 2015 8:06:41 GMT -5
For specials you seem to be more than qualified for raids and nightfalls. In nightfalls Icebreaker is awesome if you don't have a good team, as you will need to hang back a bit. Plan C, invective and spears (when you want to use primary/heavy exotics) make it complete. Would not spend to much time leveling pocket infinity if NF and raid are your priority, as you already have invective and icebreaker with solar damage. Seems like you are more than qualified for raids! and also nightfalls IMHO! Primary elemental weapons are great, but not a must have. Esp if you have icebreaker. All I often look for in NF LFG, is a guy who can anchor. Don't really need that extra damage, most ppl running through NF's are powerhouses. All I need are some extra warm bodies to severely reduce the chance of returning to orbit. Generally ppl don't care how much kills you get, as long as you don't play like a dick or idiot everything is good! If you really want those elemental primaries, play VoG normal mode a few times, you will probably get a VoC/AE. Use that harms way and murmur for oracles until you get corrective measure! Using primaries on oracles is the most often made mistake in VoG I think. Another easy way to get elemental primaries are the first two stages of crota hard. The abyss and bridge section do not require any skill and you could be carried through it without even firing a shot. Giving you a very decent chance at a solar AR and arc PR (not THE best elemental primaries, but with burn they both rock in nightfalls). I would advice to at least play crota NM once first though. Because it is actually great fun the first 10 runthroughs. I will hit you up on PSN if I finally have a decent internet connection at home again. I might be able to "carry" you through some stuff to get those elemental primaries
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wings
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Post by wings on May 13, 2015 8:13:51 GMT -5
On normal difficulty the only weapons on either Raid you realistically need are rocket launchers to take out Deathsinger and Crota. You don't need any specific weapons for normal Vault of Glass. If you do not have a rocket launcher with tracking for Crota's End, you just need to readjust your positioning and aiming.
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Post by iw5000 on May 13, 2015 8:21:16 GMT -5
Actually, the Crota weapons are some of the best weapons in the game when fully leveled to 331. Most all of my stuff is done with them. They do everything pretty well as they also match well. They are all mostly elemental legendaries. So they fit with one's exotics nicely. These are the guns people should strive to get. Going off memory...
Oversoul and Fang...work all the time, they are go-to guns, a pulse and scout. Swordbreaker...destroys knights and most everything else ridiculously fast. One of the best PvE shotguns. BlackHammer...THE best boss crushing gun in the game, without a doubt. Hunger of Crota...2nd best launcher in the PvE game. Nuff said there. These five guns will get a person through 95% of the content in this game ridiculously easy.
The others Crota guns? Don't use them as much anymore, but they are really solid. Abyss Defiant, ..great on Wizards. Word is a great handgun and it's void. Song and Light, ... I don't use them that much, would say they are mostly just ok.
You have the above Crota guns, especially the first group, you really don't need any other weapons in this game when matching up with your exotic core group. I would say the following Exotic guns are what everyone should strive to have, this core group: Ghorn (I don't have this one), IceBreaker, Thunderlord, & Thorn. Those four are all you need. The other exotics are specialty guns: MIDA (running stuff), Bad JuJu (killing masses quickly, impress friends), Red Death (PvE), Truth (PvE), Suros (PvE) and Last Word (PvE) (don't give a shit about the others)
That's all you need. VoG guns? At 300, their usefulness outside of the VoG is a bit limited, except for the handgun. All the other hundreds of legendaries? All will get the job done, but none really can top the above list.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 13, 2015 8:34:42 GMT -5
I think Bungie actually has, indirectly, admitted that CE is less complex than VoG. They talked about having different design goals and a different approach. It was never intended to simply recreate what they did in VoG. In theory it was supposed to be more of an action experience. I don't know how that panned out exactly since I haven't done anything there other than grab the first chest and be molested by thrall. I don't think it panned out as planned, at least, not for experienced teams. It seems like when people went in for the early spoiler free runs CE was pretty epic, and then as people figured it all out it didn't hold up and for Hard Mode they mostly just made it grindier or something... I'm just summarizing my impressions from what I've read, though.
Anyway, I'm also fairly certain Bungie was keen to take a different focus with CE for the same reasons HoW has this new arena thing instead of a new Raid. I think VoG took a massive amount of man-hours to tweak and even now it still has glitches and bugs that haven't been addressed.
I don't think Bungie has completely abandoned this kind of content, but I think they probably want to streamline their own process for creating it and maybe make a more robust and standardized toolset for it. And I think they also would really like to get paid for it. My suspicion is that the tweaking and retweaking of VoG went through so many iterations that it ate a pretty big chunk of budget and they just couldn't devote those kind of resources for TDB and HoW, much less the development time it-self since they were on a schedule.
Hopefully they have been working on a new VoG style raid to put in the comet at least. If so that alone is probably reason enough to get it. If not then it better have a full on new world to explore or something.
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Post by iw5000 on May 13, 2015 8:40:00 GMT -5
I think your impressions are mostly spot on.
Crota is a hybrid Raid, more of a Strike type of Raid. Right now, all the buzz with it mostly revolves around seeing how fast one can do it solo, or how much they can gimp themselves with weapons. That's all Crota is now. So allowing MM on it, wouldn't hurt things in one bit.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 13, 2015 8:55:04 GMT -5
Of course 300 attack weapons are about to get new life. *holds TDYK close and squeezes*
Also I think you meant Red Death (PvP)... because that thing's amazing in Iron Banner, and presumably regular Crucible as well. Forgot to mention I have Bad Juju, but it's got almost zero XP so the only thing it does is full auto.
Sadly I missed Thunderlord. I didn't even login that week... Too much BS at work. Hell I didn't even play this weekend... had to work. Oh well, I've been waiting for HoW as my main excuse for getting back in anyway.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on May 13, 2015 9:04:46 GMT -5
I agree crota is more of a prolonged strike, but I do think you are underestimating things.
You said this:
Who is to say you are the first guy to grab the sword? there is a good chance other ppl grab it before you. Or nobody might stand on the totems and your team wipes time after time. What if ppl on the other side don't wipe or cross the bridge? How long will you wait untill you are just full of it and back out? Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is hard. Because it is not. And I am also not saying these kind of problems will occur every time, but they will once in a while. And they will make ppl sick of the raids. Something which has to be avoided. The difference between raid and strike is that it needs some clear agreements, which can only be made through communication or experience. There will be players in MM without both, and you can't kick them. They will drag the whole experience down. That is why Bungie never put MM in the raids, and they really shouldn't either.
I have had this in LFG once as well, somebody who just didn't understand and had no mic. I really felt bad for it but we agreed to kick him after ~15 minutes of him: not wiping while cheesing/activating the bridge and wiping via totems/Not killing the swordbearer when we tried to do it legit and he was the only one left on the starting side. If that happens with MM. You are done. You can back out and find a new team and run it from the beginning again... Because you will never ever get past that part. And there are more moments like that in the raid. That is the big difference imho and the reason simple MM without structure/filter/vote for kick will not work and make the raid experience worse in the end.
On the weapons, the abyss defiant and oversoul edict are not that great IMHO. VoC, Fatebringer and Fang or Ir yut all outclass it IMHO. That being said, they are still super great for nightfalls if you don't have another elemental primary. Swordbreaker is greatly overvalued imho. There is nothing it can do any other (void) shotgun can't do. Don't stress to get it! The bigger beauties in there are: Hunger of crota (Rocket with tracking + cluster) Black Hammer (Great non exotic sniper for bosses) Word of crota is great for the void damage. The only void alternative is the AE, which is not very good. It is not really great though, just the best void option out there ATM, and might be outclassed if HoW has a decent void primary. Fang of Ir yut is the best long range arc primary, and is only second to the (semi-OP) fatebringer up close.
LMG is crap imho, really needs field scout or surplus. Light of the abyss is actually really good, but fusions are not that great anymore and murmur does both arc and solar so that saves space. I still use one though.
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Post by iw5000 on May 13, 2015 9:04:51 GMT -5
Of course 300 attack weapons are about to get new life. *holds TDYK close and squeezes* Also I think you meant Red Death (PvP)... because that thing's amazing in Iron Banner, and presumably regular Crucible as well. Forgot to mention I have Bad Juju, but it's got almost zero XP so the only thing it does is full auto. Sadly I missed Thunderlord. I didn't even login that week... Too much BS at work. Hell I didn't even play this weekend... had to work. Oh well, I've been waiting for HoW as my main excuse for getting back in anyway. Yeah, the red death was a typo. PvP. That's pretty much the gun I used exclusively in the last IB with my newer Titan. Red Death, Feltwinter Lie and Jolders. I do think that's a top tier grouping. I would also include the Truth RL in that mix too, but if I use it in the Heavy slot...I need to find a non-exotic in the Primary. Can't say I have found one that beats the Red Death yet. Bad JuJu is just an amusement gun. Like I said, impress randoms in a ROC strike by lighting up extra supers. That's pretty much all it enables you to do well, when killing easy shit. But it's just mediocre for anything else. I wouldn't worry about it, I rarely use mine. Wouldn't worry about the ThunderLord either. It's nice to have for the extra beatdown ability it gives, but is certainly not a game changer.
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Post by iw5000 on May 13, 2015 9:15:19 GMT -5
I agree crota is more of a prolonged strike, but I do think you are underestimating things. You said this: Who is to say you are the first guy to grab the sword? maybe other ppl grab it before you. Or nobody might stand on the totems and your team wipes time after time. What if ppl on the other side don't wipe or cross the bridge? How long will you wait untill you are just full of it and back out? Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is hard. Because it is not. The difference is that it needs some clear agreements, which can only be made through communication or experience. There will be players in there without both. For the occasional time that happens (1 in 5?, 1 in 8?)..i'll just back out and find a new group. I would already have a checkpoint. No worries. Drag it down? For who? The 5% of the player base that already has groups to use? They would never use the feature. So nope. The 1/2% of the players who run it solo? Again, they wouldn't use this feature. No again. And would it be the 85% of the player base that isn't doing it now? Not likely. They aren't running it now. How can they be annoyed or be dragged down? The only people who could be 'dragged down' would be those who would actually NEED the MM feature to achieve their stated goal (get raid armor, get the DS lottery wheel shot, etc..). And they couldn't be drug down, but they would be there using this feature, because they need it. Having that chance, is better than no chance. I'm not sure why you don't understand this. You don't need to protect people. People aren't doing it now anyways. And there is no sacred holy bungie image to protect. The Crota raid has already been humiliated. Not really. I have a checkpoint, I just start over. And if it can't be checkpointed (coding wise), the Crota raid is fast. I can be back at the bridge in what? four minutes with a new team lol? Come on. Seriously. I would rather spend 20 minutes and retry three teams of randoms, than spend an hour banging my head against the wall on the DeathSinger, because my character can't do it.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on May 13, 2015 9:15:39 GMT -5
Agreed, bad juju is not really needed for anything. It is one of the most fun weapons to play with as a voidwalker though...
It CAN be very powerfull in some parts of the game if more ppl use it. I did the abyss part with 6 bad juju's once. It is a blast!
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qupie
True Bro
Posts: 12,400
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Post by qupie on May 13, 2015 9:26:34 GMT -5
I agree crota is more of a prolonged strike, but I do think you are underestimating things. You said this: Who is to say you are the first guy to grab the sword? maybe other ppl grab it before you. Or nobody might stand on the totems and your team wipes time after time. What if ppl on the other side don't wipe or cross the bridge? How long will you wait untill you are just full of it and back out? Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is hard. Because it is not. The difference is that it needs some clear agreements, which can only be made through communication or experience. There will be players in there without both. For the occasional time that happens (1 in 5?, 1 in 8?)..i'll just back out and find a new group. I would already have a checkpoint. No worries. Drag it down? For who? The 5% of the player base that already has groups to use? They would never use the feature. So nope. The 1/2% of the players who run it solo? Again, they wouldn't use this feature. No again. And would it be the 85% of the player base that isn't doing it now? Not likely. They aren't running it now. How can they be annoyed or be dragged down? The only people who could be 'dragged down' would be those who would actually NEED the MM feature to achieve their stated goal (get raid armor, get the DS lottery wheel shot, etc..). And they couldn't be drug down, but they would be there using this feature, because they need it. Having that chance, is better than no chance. I'm not sure why you don't understand this. You don't need to protect people. People aren't doing it now anyways. And there is no sacred holy bungie image to protect. The Crota raid has already been humiliated. Not really. I have a checkpoint, I just start over. And if it can't be checkpointed (coding wise), the Crota raid is fast. I can be back at the bridge in what? four minutes with a new team lol? Come on. Seriously. I would rather spend 20 minutes and retry three teams of randoms, than spend an hour banging my head against the wall on the DeathSinger, because my character can't do it. You seem to be the one not understanding. The point somebody else was trying to make on this page about the % of exotics equiped, those 85% don't exist anymore. Anybody who never used an exotic by this time, is not playing the game anymore, or are at least not ready to play the raid. There are still people who are just getting this game, and would love the see what the raid is all about. If their first experience in there is awefull, they will say: "raid is awefull, I will not try again". Now if they don't have MM to find that bad first experience, they might try something like LFG later, or might try and actively find a raid group through messages or something. A player who is convinced raids are awefull because of a bad first experience will never do that. So at least that population will not benefit from MM raids. (like somebody already stated above was the case for him) I don't think checkpoint would work well with matchmaking, but that is only guessing. It will severely reduce the number of possible matches. And I am not protecting anybody. Just trying to get the most out of this game. Like said before.
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Post by iw5000 on May 13, 2015 9:28:01 GMT -5
On the weapons, the abyss defiant and oversoul edict are not that great IMHO. VoC, Fatebringer and Fang or Ir yut all outclass it IMHO. That being said, they are still super great for nightfalls if you don't have another elemental primary. Fang is better. Overall. But the Oversoul Edict can be very immensely useful on NF's and Weeklies that have Hive. It has a feature which shoots through Knight's black shields. Like on this week's NF. Especially towards the end. Every single Knight will toss up a 3 second shield as soon as you hit it with damage. You then lose time waiting, or have to rush the knight with a shotgun (as the Knight will run away) The Oversoul helps here. It destroys the knight before the shield even comes down. Immensely helpful. The Fang, Vision and Fatebringer do not have this feature. The Vision is also solar damage. Agree, not worth stressing to get it, but if you are normal Crota mode a few times a week, it will most likely drop into your lap. Drop rates are high for it. So that said, if you got it, why not use it. And if you do, it just crushes Knights. Especially the sword bearer knights on the Crota raid (Bridge and Last stage). Both of these parts are time sensitive sections. Having a gun that takes out a swordbearer in seconds, is much better than a slower gun. So yeah, maybe situational usefulness here..so from that standpoint, it's not urgently needed. But regardless, it's still powerful. It will work on other stuff just as well.
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