mannon
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Post by mannon on May 20, 2015 11:06:20 GMT -5
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Post by iw5000 on May 20, 2015 12:24:24 GMT -5
Yeah there was definitely some not obvious stuff with the Queen's Wrath stuff. But I wasn't talking about that. HoW seems pretty safe to jump into without really costing yourself anything or wasting any time up to the point where you start PoE at least. Beyond that I don't know. But it's enough to get your feet wet. Then again as far along as you are you'll probably want to grind up to PoE as quickly as humanly possible and probably won't care about anything else except maybe NF and ToO. I am not going to have as much time, this go around. Not because of work (my job is easy), or other games (i have pretty much quit all my Clan stuff with CoDAW) but just due to getting into other things with summer here. Putting my time into my grappling stuff, sent my registration papers in for a number of events this summer. So I hope this DLC goes well. My personality doesn't take to well with half ass stuff. If I feel I am falling behind in getting stuff, cant' get certain things, i'll just quit. I don't want that though. Destiny is the only video game I am playing now. :-(
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Post by iw5000 on May 20, 2015 16:32:26 GMT -5
Ok...i just squeezed in some time. I started the story mission with my Titan.The first mission wasn't really new map, just a path leading back to the archon priest in reverse. Then i have to go to Venus and get 200 shanks or something? Really? This shit is the DLC? Ok...Did that, then the bounty disappeared, to be replaced by bringing x number of stolen 'shiplins' back to Variks. I killed some stuff, but no description of what this is. Nothing is registering. So what do i kill? I don't feel like looking it up online, so that's it for me tonight ...I'm bored. Not impressed so far.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on May 20, 2015 16:56:10 GMT -5
Ok...i just squeezed in some time. I started the story mission with my Titan.The first mission wasn't really new map, just a path leading back to the archon priest in reverse. Then i have to go to Venus and get 200 shanks or something? Really? This shit is the DLC? Ok...Did that, then the bounty disappeared, to be replaced by bringing x number of stolen 'shiplins' back to Variks. I killed some stuff, but no description of what this is. Nothing is registering. So what do i kill? I don't feel like looking it up online, so that's it for me tonight ...I'm bored. Not impressed so far. IIRC, that part explicitly states to kill fallen vandals and loot fallen chests while on Venus for the ship links. Every vandal you kill drops 4 of them. It took like 5 minutes while I was doing something else already anyway. Fairly straightforward honestly, just highlight the mission or bounty or whatever in your menu screen and it tells you exactly what to do.
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Post by iw5000 on May 20, 2015 17:31:11 GMT -5
Ok...signed back on.
Yes. II did the 200. Then the bounty says 'Bring stolen Shiplinks to Variks on the reef - incomplete" ...but when i take it to him, nothing happened. The bounty sits there and says 'incomplete' "Gone to the Ground - check with Petra. I go to her, nothing happens. It's like a circular loop.
If i go back to Venus, it just shows it as incomplete, with nothing more to kill.
Ok...i'm going back to cutting grass.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on May 20, 2015 18:20:04 GMT -5
Ok...signed back on. Yes. II did the 200. Then the bounty says 'Bring stolen Shiplinks to Variks on the reef - incomplete" ...but when i take it to him, nothing happened. The bounty sits there and says 'incomplete' "Gone to the Ground - check with Petra. I go to her, nothing happens. It's like a circular loop. If i go back to Venus, it just shows it as incomplete, with nothing more to kill. Ok...i'm going back to cutting grass. This is going to sound stupid, but when you go to turn the bounty in, are you sure you're pressing A to accept and not B to go back?
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Post by iw5000 on May 20, 2015 18:27:15 GMT -5
Ok...signed back on. Yes. II did the 200. Then the bounty says 'Bring stolen Shiplinks to Variks on the reef - incomplete" ...but when i take it to him, nothing happened. The bounty sits there and says 'incomplete' "Gone to the Ground - check with Petra. I go to her, nothing happens. It's like a circular loop. If i go back to Venus, it just shows it as incomplete, with nothing more to kill. Ok...i'm going back to cutting grass. This is going to sound stupid, but when you go to turn the bounty in, are you sure you're pressing A to accept and not B to go back? I'll check later tonight if i can get back on. And no, nothing is stupid when it comes to this game and me :-(
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qupie
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Post by qupie on May 21, 2015 3:05:36 GMT -5
Ok...signed back on. Yes. II did the 200. Then the bounty says 'Bring stolen Shiplinks to Variks on the reef - incomplete" ...but when i take it to him, nothing happened. The bounty sits there and says 'incomplete' "Gone to the Ground - check with Petra. I go to her, nothing happens. It's like a circular loop. If i go back to Venus, it just shows it as incomplete, with nothing more to kill. Ok...i'm going back to cutting grass. This is going to sound stupid, but when you go to turn the bounty in, are you sure you're pressing A to accept and not B to go back? LOL. This took me a few minutes as well. I was like, what the hell? I just visited her? like three times already?? It is new in destiny to have press a/x after a bounty, so that was kinda weird. Apparently I always pressed b/o. It was explained at the bottem of the screen though after I looked for it, I was just to much in a rush to kill some stuff I guess... Also the nightfall, we wiped three times on the same part, just because I wanted to see what was next . As I only had a few hours of game time. All in all this is what strikes should look like IMHO, great fun and no cheesing. Prison of elders was fun as well, I wiped more in lvl 28 mode than 32 mode in the end, I like to blame that to being rusty . Got an (ascended) plan c out of the chest, and a "her mercy". Cool hand cannon with icarus and some other nice perk. The problem with this acending gear is though, that I never see me really using any other hand cannon than fatebringer... I love the fact that old weapons got relevant, but it also sucks at the same time... All these great new weapons, which are not as good as the stuff I already have PoE is better than crota imho. You actually have be in there and manouvre/kill asap, otherwise you will simply die. Want to try the 34 and 35 challenges, but I feel like I need some practice first (and some internet...). There is actual skill required there (at least until somebody finds a cheese and everybody starts using it, because .... uhm, I really don't know, they think it is more fun???)
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on May 21, 2015 5:51:45 GMT -5
Some thoughts and rambles on my PoE experience.
Oh man....my 2 buddies and I just 6 hour brute forced the hardest challenge HoW has to offer (yet... more on that later). We tackled level 35 PoE and got some sweet rewards from the big chest at the end in addition to some armor/weapon cores and etheric light. Make absolutely sure you save at least one key if you intend to beat level 35. I got the PoE ship, shader, emblem, and a shotgun ONLY from that chest. Normally the chest gives you a random queen's weapon OR if it is the first big chest you open during the week you get a random exotic in addition.
The queen's gear can be rerolled at the gunsmith. The PoE gear... cannot. There are some crazy perks like getting faster cooldowns when facing hive/vex/fallen/cabal. Very useful for not just PoE. Better yet this gear is max damage or light level straight out of the box. No need to even level it up for the perks. Boom. Light level 42. So that stuff is cool. I got the assault rifle that I didn't really like, but I got a PoE machine gun that stuns fallen captains.
I'm liking this experience...I call it a raid because whoever designed PoE is very smart and developed the first Procedurally generated raiding experience. It might be a "raid lite" experience...but the last fight certainly felt like I was in a raid. Each little level at 34+ felt like a neat challenge that we had to figure out. This DLC in general feels like a "raid tutorial" since the majority of Destiny players have never touched a raid. Note the cool story mission that teaches you a particular raid mechanic. PoE also eases people in to the autodeath mechanic and has an announcer tell you why you are auto dying. Neat. The upgrades are intuitive. Rerolls are nice. Etheric light is great for the same reasons I said we needed transmogrification. The story is good. The characters are good. Bariks sounds awesome. I'm a fan. Some of my friends that quit Destiny are now "back" and looking forward to "year 2."
The level that bungie got stuck at...was particularly enjoyable to master. Hive. Arc Burn. Lots of things to defend. Turns out we just had to split up for the mines, learn spawn point, and coordinate supers.
The last boss on 34 was tough until we figured out that defender titans are very strong vs it and warlocks can use the "angel of light" perk to get some extra hang time. Throwbacks like the Vision of confluence also come in handy.
I'll talk 35 now. Turn away if you are concerned about spoilers.
My buddies and I blew through the first 3 rounds pretty fast. We were careful. No Deaths. The 4th round was tough as it involved a ton of super buff captains with a "special weapons are preferred." Every other weapon type was nerfed. On the second and third round an "eliminate the target" tanky captain would make a mad dash from a gate to the objective. On the second round he would be the first thing to spawn so would could burst him down with icebreakers. On the third round he would spawn slightly after the beginning. This seemed to be impossible with the sheer amount of captains spawning in... I should mention that captains seem to have gotten a slight buff with their shrapnel launchers. Basically we couldn't focus down the target and we would panic wipe. We ended up winning because I got the silly idea to use an unupgraded (but ascended) invective and a blindy bubble on the captain's eventual spawn point. We waited it out and I got about 80% of the captain's health off. My friends finished it off and I got out of there as I was pretty surrounded.
The next round was the 1st boss and it was actually pretty tricky for me. On my titan I use the no primary/infinite heavy ammo glitch. I have the downside of using no primary/exotic heavy/forced to use icebreaker/invective(temporarily) in exchange for infinite heavy ammo. Normally this is great (and some personal revenge for having 1600 hours of play time with no gjallarhorn drop, but the main perk of concern on this one was "primary weapons are preferred." My ascended icebreaker/hunger of crota were super weak. The boss is a servitor with just a ton of shrapnel captains and sword captains spawning in. Since the fallen arena is so large, we utilized a plan from the previous level where we would spread out and run laps around the edge. The enemies would congregate in the middle due to pathing and we could take turns picking them off... During this fight... instead of picking off enemies... we would take pot shots at the boss. At the end of the 10ish minute fight we had only killed three enemies (including the boss).
More on the boss in a bit.
Edit:
The last boss had us stuck for 4+ hours. As it should be. Solar burn. Boss has a giant solar gun and multiple stages. I had done my research before hand. from 100%-50% health he takes reduced damage unless you kill his invisible servitor and get a 20 second buff that lets you do normal damage. At 50% health he will take normal damage regardless but he summons bombs that you need to defuse AND he introduces a negative effect to a character on your fireteam. That character will die in 30 seconds unless he/she passes it on to another guardian. Once passed you cannot receive the effect for 30 seconds. This ensures that you cannot swap it between just two guardians. You need to have a third (A->B->C->A->B->C). All this while he fires these one shot cannons at you and adds spawn in. At 25% health he spawns in more bombs. Yay. The fallen arena also happens to be the biggest and have the biggest distance between bombs. More yay. The strategy we found online seemed solid. kill a servitor. Drop bubbles. Burn him down with g-horns before the adds spawn in. Shoot all rockets. Sit in bubbles. Pop heavy. Finish him. One team got him down in 40 seconds. Another in 30. The problem? All those teams had 3 ghallarhorns.
That bit is the negative of this fight. I really felt that this fight was too reliant on having one gun drop for you. On near successful attmmpts we had to wait 10 minutes between tries. 5 to pop new heavy. 5 to wait for the next cooldown to reset. That was long and tedious. If you don't burn the boss down...the adds will get you with their solar burn shrapnel launchers. We agreed that we didn't know if this was even possible with arc burn. The fight is also fairly inconsistent since the boss just teleports everywhere. In a corner? He doesn't care. He wants your corner. I felt bad because many times we got him to 10-20% health. If I had the G-horn instead of the hunger of crota...he would have died.
But we persisted. And He finally went down. We were giddy as we trotted from bomb to bomb. All the adds despawned after he died. It felt like a true victory lap.
Btw... my group is the first I've ever seen that beat him WITHOUT 3 ghallarhorns. I'm pretty happy. I'll have to upload the video to youtube or something.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on May 21, 2015 7:06:28 GMT -5
Sad to see the Gjallar is this good once again in end game material. Up to lvl 34 it didn't really seem needed. (Other exotics are way better in other stages). I am beginning to feel like they should simply nerf the gjallarhorn into oblivion. (or simply buff every weapon and enemy with 175% damage/health, so players can't whine)
Gjallarhorn at this moment just gives bungie two options:
1. Make everything extremely hard, because gjallarhorn 2. Make everything balanced on other heavies, and have players with gjallarhorn be king.
I am glad they start to shift to option 1 with all these horns around, but still, it is a sad thing for gun balance.
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Post by iw5000 on May 21, 2015 7:16:47 GMT -5
Sad to see the Gjallar is this good once again in end game material. Up to lvl 34 it didn't really seem needed. (Other exotics are way better in other stages). I am beginning to feel like they should simply nerf the gjallarhorn into oblivion. (or simply buff every weapon and enemy with 175% damage/health, so players can't whine) Gjallarhorn at this moment just gives bungie two options: 1. Make everything extremely hard, because gjallarhorn 2. Make everything balanced on other heavies, and have players with gjallarhorn be king. I am glad they start to shift to option 1 with all these horns around, but still, it is a sad thing for gun balance. I still don't have one, and reading Dumien's post about the Ghorn (the last few sections)... kind of takes a bit of the wind out of my sails. Why am I doing this? Grind to get to the (supposed) best part, top level, and only find out, once again, that the Ghorn people rule in a five hour bullet sponge contest. And I think that's a bit dismissive to say people are whining, who don't have it. End game content, what I paid for, ..can be a night and day different experience based on having this ridiculously OP gun. See all the Crota solo stuff. If you had it, you could solo 100% easier. Here we are with the new DLC, and it may be the same story again. ...ok, everyone who has a GHorn can now tell me to shut up, and that it's not overpowered, blah (it's random!!) blah (I don't use my four Ghorns anyways), blah(play better!!!).
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qupie
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Post by qupie on May 21, 2015 7:34:32 GMT -5
Sad to see the Gjallar is this good once again in end game material. Up to lvl 34 it didn't really seem needed. (Other exotics are way better in other stages). I am beginning to feel like they should simply nerf the gjallarhorn into oblivion. (or simply buff every weapon and enemy with 175% damage/health, so players can't whine) Gjallarhorn at this moment just gives bungie two options: 1. Make everything extremely hard, because gjallarhorn 2. Make everything balanced on other heavies, and have players with gjallarhorn be king. I am glad they start to shift to option 1 with all these horns around, but still, it is a sad thing for gun balance. I still don't have one, and reading Dumien's post about the Ghorn (the last few sections)... kind of takes a bit of the wind out of my sails. Why am I doing this? Grind to get to the (supposed) best part, top level, and only find out, once again, that the Ghorn people rule in a five hour bullet sponge contest. And I think that's a bit dismissive to say people are whining, who don't have it. End game content, what I paid for, ..can be a night and day different experience based on having this ridiculously OP gun. See all the Crota solo stuff. If you had it, you could solo 100% easier. Here we are with the new DLC, and it may be the same story again. ...ok, everyone who has a GHorn can now tell me to shut up, and that it's not overpowered, blah (it's random!!) blah (I don't use my four Ghorns anyways), blah(play better!!!). I was talking about all the people who would start whining when the gun got nerfed. Like: I had to grind xxx hours to get that thing, and now you nerf it! whaaat, screw you bungie you suck etc etc etc . I just argumented it needs a nerf, so I don't really understand the last part . Anyhow, I don't agree at all about the crota part. It should not be able to be solod in the first place, or it should be extremely hard. But we already had that discussion before, so lets not start that again. But if feels kinda crappy that it forces bungies game/difficulty design in the above two choices. That is the real reason it should be nerfed, or made less effective in another way. They are in a real pickle, because nerfing it will give greater rage than the current rage of ppl not having it I think. Just realize now that it does have different modifiers though I guess, so with arc/void burn, different heavies will be better than Gjallar. That makes it a bit less one sided.
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Post by iw5000 on May 21, 2015 7:50:01 GMT -5
Well, yeah. Crota shouldn't have been soloable. Agree. But that's missing the point. Intentions mean nothing. How it actually played, was ALL that mattered and soloing was the thing to do. So for the $20 I spent on the DLC, THAT was how that particular DLC played for the better part of three or four months. And if you didn't have a GHorn, your experience was substantially lessened. I wanted to try and do some solo race times. I couldn't.
And the thought that this might be occurring again, GHorn overpowering superiority, bums me out.
Again, not griping in a real world way (this means nothing once I stop typing) Just in video game terms. Solely on a video game level.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on May 21, 2015 8:14:42 GMT -5
Just let Xur sell it any coming weeks, and nerf it in a month or two. That would probably be the best solution.
A possible nerf could be that multiple cluster bombs hitting one single target reduces the damage of the cluster bomb. Like 1st cluster bomb 100%, 2nd 50%, 3rd 25% damage etc etc.
Or simply damage * 0.7 or something.
Hoping the arc burn will let the Thunderlord shine.
p.s. another point is though that while a gjallar might be kinda obligated right now, once everybody has all their best weapons at 365 and is lvl 34, it might not be that bad after all. (fingers crossed)
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Post by iw5000 on May 21, 2015 8:20:24 GMT -5
Xur selling it would solve all problems immediately.
But in terms of nerfing it, that might not be so easy. Especially if the end content, is designed around the assumption that top* players will have it.
* top - people willing to put in the hours to get all the shit done
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 21, 2015 8:39:38 GMT -5
Considering the element won't always be the same I don't think Ghorn necessarily will always be top dog, but it does kinda make sense for it to be the first one in rotation.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on May 21, 2015 9:15:48 GMT -5
Xur selling it would solve all problems immediately. But in terms of nerfing it, that might not be so easy. Especially if the end content, is designed around the assumption that top* players will have it. Selling it without nerfing it would greatly exaggerate all problems. It would make content boring OR extremely hard if you want to use a different exotic. Both are very bad for the game. That is the reason it needs to be sold and nerfed right after (give them a month or so to screw around with it). So content doesn't have to be balanced around the Ghorn (anymore). It would mean that lvl 35 is actually a real accomplishment, instead of Ghorn check. I wouldn't really mind if only 30-40% of all players can pass the lvl 35 challenge. That would mean you are a real bad ass if you do pass it. Now it just means you own a Gjallar. I think all will be good though. I think (hope) players will find a way to beat the lvl 35 without Ghorns in the future. Seems like the ghorn drop rate has increased recently, the exotic chest in PoE seems to put out ridiculous amounts of Horns. So hopefully this is a forebode to the nerf. But to be honest, I am afraid it will never happen...
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 21, 2015 9:34:22 GMT -5
They could buff other launchers then stealth nerf all launchers over a longer period by patching in anti launcher/cluster bomb mechanics for bosses. I would like the chance to either get a GHorn or something equivalent before they start nerfing anything, though.
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Post by iw5000 on May 21, 2015 9:51:40 GMT -5
Hopefully I can actually get to the Prison of Elders. My dumb ass can't even get the story finished right now.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on May 21, 2015 10:19:37 GMT -5
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 21, 2015 10:32:21 GMT -5
It's within the realm of possibility, but there are some pretty good indications that Bungie took it out of his loot table at some point. In fact for all we know the week that he did sell it might have been the magic, special Xur that Bungie hand picks inventory for (as far as we know). That would actually make a lot of sense for them to have had him sell it early on to reward the Day 1 players that did the most Destnying. The data miners couldn't tell the difference between Xur's back then so we'll probably never know. But I wouldn't be surprised if that's the only reason he sold it and it has never even been in his list.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on May 21, 2015 10:40:14 GMT -5
I dont think Bungie actually realized what the ghorn could do pre launch. So it might have just been randomly in there. And while it is a possibility it got taken out, I still think the evidence is thin.
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Post by iw5000 on May 21, 2015 11:04:34 GMT -5
People can still safely hide statistical tables on this one. The odds of the Ghorn just not dropping, due to randomness, are still around 2 or 3%. That is, the odds of NOT getting a Ghorn roll, on 34 Xur attempts (after week two), is around 2 to 3%. That's not a statistical significant number yet. Random chance could explain it.
But it is ironic that the only weapon to have not come up since week 2, is the Ghorn. The best weapon in the game.
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Post by TheHawkNY on May 21, 2015 11:58:46 GMT -5
I've done level 34 on all three characters now. Round 4 is definitely the most difficult, with Hive + Arc Burn + 2 waves of defusing. I found it was hard to survive if you do not immediately kill the Wizards with rockets as soon as they enter. For round 5, just go to the far left side of the room, shoot all your rockets, heavy synth, shoot again, then use Black Hammer on the boss. I used Vex on the adds. If anyone is damaged when he enrages, drop bubble, then after have someone else create orbs to replenish. Just make sure to clear adds before focusing on the boss.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on May 21, 2015 15:14:48 GMT -5
I didn't mean for my schpeel to be a discouragement guys. I'm proud that we did what we did. All the vids online show 3 ghallies, but we broke that mold. If anything, this procedurally generated raid is a boon to those without ghallies. Some days that fight might be arc burn. The only way I can see winning is by killing the boss with the thunderlord before the adds appear. Gjallarhorn might have no effect. On rounds with the effect "primary weapons are preferred" or "Special Weapons are preferred" the gjallarhorn is useless. If that modifier appears on a boss... things are going to be tricky.
If anything, I think PoE exemplified a legit way to nerf the G-horn. It just so happens that the boss had solar burn on this week, thus it was the best exotic to use.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on May 21, 2015 15:28:11 GMT -5
FWIW, Planet Destiny is listing the "Small Arms" and "Specialist" PoE modifiers as doubling the damage of primary and special weapons, respectively, but no mention is made at all of those modifiers having any effect on the other weapon types. I don't have enough PoE experience to know one way or the other -- I only recall one round with one of those mods and it was easy enough that I didn't notice a difference. Maybe they have some bad/incomplete info over there, I dunno.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on May 21, 2015 15:31:40 GMT -5
I noticed a tangible damage drop off when using non-preferred weapons.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on May 21, 2015 16:17:58 GMT -5
Cool. I'll have to keep that in mind when running it tonight.
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