pachiderm
True Bro
Chewing some serious leaves
Posts: 647
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Post by pachiderm on Dec 21, 2015 16:28:45 GMT -5
A camper's annoyance factor doesn't change much depending on the weapon. 9 times out of 10 if a camper got you with one gun they would have got you with any other gun. For example that guy with awareness and a hypothetical silenced Brecci with only a 20% range reduction would be just as annoying as a guy with a silenced HVK. That is straight up not true. Little Timmy who was born without thumbs has maybe a 10% chance of outgunning me at close range with an SMG/AR if he gets the first shot. That number jumps way up when he has a gun he can use to reliably hip fire 2 shot me. The thing many people do not realize about ARs/SMGs is that they can be quite difficult to use if you absolutely suck. And the thing you don't seem to realize about shotguns is that they are, in fact, quite powerful at close range. Don't mistake the concept of "I would do better overall using an SMG/AR than using a shotgun" for "I would do better in any situation with an SMG/AR than with a shotgun." Don't get me wrong, I place the blame for shotgun/awareness campers entirely on awareness being overpowered as fu ck, but that doesn't mean people who are far less skilled than I am won't have an easier time killing me at close range with a shotgun than with a gun that actually requires them to aim.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 21, 2015 18:41:33 GMT -5
The reason so many people hate shotguns is because a large chunk of the COloD community is made up of SMG/AR users who don't seem to remember the appropriate phrase for those two classes is "Jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none". No. People hate shotguns because they bring instant death at close range. People hate shotguns because they see themselves getting mowed down by the shotgun user, but are not aware of the times that the reason they killed the shotgun user was because they were out of range to even fire, or because they were shot in the back while fleeing, etc. But most of all, people hate shotgun users because an enemy using a shotgun forces you to either change how you play/where you go, or accept that you are going to suffer deaths to them. I'd buy those reasons if it weren't for all the hate that LMGs get from these same people whenever they are decent. Agreed on the whole "people don't want to learn to adapt to enemies with different guns" thing, but that kinda feeds into what I was saying about SMG/AR users not understanding that the versatility comes at the cost of being not as good at specific things.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Dec 21, 2015 18:54:37 GMT -5
I love this discussion. I've been using the silenced+RF brecci quite a bit without much issue. I think it is probably best with Laser+RF so I have a class setup for both. It reminds me quite a bit of the BO1 spas 12 without the !HK possibility. That alone was enough for me to use it...but I've been able to make use of it in lobbies with above average players (so has Gamble). I don't think it needs buffing...its good enough with proper aerial movement.
The argus has such a high skill ceiling and I love it. It is definitely a weapon I enjoy using when I'm "in the zone."
I know I am in the minority but I enjoyed the remmington in BO1. Yes it and the akimbo rangers were designed for bad players, but I loved soundwhoring and rushing with that thing...putting opponents in completely unwinnable situations. I wouldn't mind BO3's pump getting buffed to that level.
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Post by Blurred Wolf on Dec 22, 2015 4:05:33 GMT -5
People thought the BO2 R870 was annoying? I thought it was a pile of shit. KSG or bust.
I was actually really enjoying the KRM in my limited time on the PC free weekend. I think being able to quickly whip around with a mouse made it more viable as well as boosting and aiming at the same time (I'm usually a console player, but play a little CSGO). The guaranteed 2HK is actually way bigger than people give it credit for, being able to get a longish range hitmarker on someone, pump, then boost slide in for easy secure kill is pretty valuable. With some nice movement tricks I could get away with 2HK somewhat often (relative to other CoDs I guess). I was pretty much only hipfiring and I felt I did better without laser sight. The standard laser-sight spread seemed much better than BO2 R870 and the reticle bloom wasn't too big (still stupid its there though).
Also Pach touched on something I think a lot of people over look. People are pretty inaccurate with SMG/ARs. I bet you even lots of the better players here have accuracy stats of under 50%. This is why I've always thought raw TTK data isn't as important as people think it is.
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Post by illram on Dec 22, 2015 5:16:21 GMT -5
I wish the shotgun accuracy stats were accurate in the combat record. All mine are in the hundreds of percent for some reason.
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Post by Blurred Wolf on Dec 22, 2015 8:55:32 GMT -5
It probably registers multiple pellet hits as hitting X times with 1 shot. So if you fire once and 3 pellets hit that's 300% accuracy. (Just a guess idk for sure).
On topic though. It's already been asked but do we have any idea what Long Barrel does on any of the shotties? I remember the consensus before was that it was not worth it but is this still the case?
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Post by TheHawkNY on Dec 22, 2015 9:31:36 GMT -5
No. People hate shotguns because they bring instant death at close range. People hate shotguns because they see themselves getting mowed down by the shotgun user, but are not aware of the times that the reason they killed the shotgun user was because they were out of range to even fire, or because they were shot in the back while fleeing, etc. But most of all, people hate shotgun users because an enemy using a shotgun forces you to either change how you play/where you go, or accept that you are going to suffer deaths to them. I'd buy those reasons if it weren't for all the hate that LMGs get from these same people whenever they are decent. Agreed on the whole "people don't want to learn to adapt to enemies with different guns" thing, but that kinda feeds into what I was saying about SMG/AR users not understanding that the versatility comes at the cost of being not as good at specific things. I don't see a lot of hate for LMGs, with the exception of when people are loitering/abusing mind bullets, which once again gets into the forcing you to change how you play. It's not that "people don't want to learn to adapt to enemies with different guns." It's that they don't want to adapt. The freedom to do whatever you want is kind of what COD is all about.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 22, 2015 10:08:22 GMT -5
I'd buy those reasons if it weren't for all the hate that LMGs get from these same people whenever they are decent. Agreed on the whole "people don't want to learn to adapt to enemies with different guns" thing, but that kinda feeds into what I was saying about SMG/AR users not understanding that the versatility comes at the cost of being not as good at specific things. I don't see a lot of hate for LMGs, with the exception of when people are loitering/abusing mind bullets, which once again gets into the forcing you to change how you play. It's not that "people don't want to learn to adapt to enemies with different guns." It's that they don't want to adapt. The freedom to do whatever you want is kind of what COD is all about. Bullshit it's just headglitching LMGs that tick these people off. A large portion of the threads on the competitive cod subreddit were for a a while about how the LMGs should be banned or nerfed into the ground. And not just the Gorgon and Dredge, but all of them. I've that same kind of hate in many of responses to a thread someone made in the BO3 subreddit that asked why people were against viable LMGs. Again, anecdotal, but I even had an argument on Twitter with a better known CoD player who thought that LMGs were supposed to worse than ARs at long range. I've seen enough to know that there is a large portion of players whose thought process is "fuck anyone that uses an LMG/Shotgun/Sniper" and Drift0r is one of the few better known youtubers that doesn't have that attitude. People don't want to adapt to situations, which is why they choose the ARs or SMGs as their weapon under the assumption that those weapons are supposed to be the best weapons at everything. They don't understand that balance means your weapon is better at some things in exchange for being worse at other things.
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pachiderm
True Bro
Chewing some serious leaves
Posts: 647
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Post by pachiderm on Dec 22, 2015 11:23:54 GMT -5
I don't see a lot of hate for LMGs, with the exception of when people are loitering/abusing mind bullets, which once again gets into the forcing you to change how you play. It's not that "people don't want to learn to adapt to enemies with different guns." It's that they don't want to adapt. The freedom to do whatever you want is kind of what COD is all about. Bullshit it's just using mind bullets LMGs that tick these people off. A large portion of the threads on the competitive cod subreddit were for a a while about how the LMGs should be banned or nerfed into the ground. And not just the Gorgon and Dredge, but all of them. I've that same kind of hate in many of responses to a thread someone made in the BO3 subreddit that asked why people were against viable LMGs. Again, anecdotal, but I even had an argument on Twitter with a better known CoD player who thought that LMGs were supposed to worse than ARs at long range. I've seen enough to know that there is a large portion of players whose thought process is "Foxtrot anyone that uses an LMG/Shotgun/Sniper" and Drift0r is one of the few better known youtubers that doesn't have that attitude. People don't want to adapt to situations, which is why they choose the ARs or SMGs as their weapon under the assumption that those weapons are supposed to be the best weapons at everything. They don't understand that balance means your weapon is better at some things in exchange for being worse at other things. The competitive cod subreddit is filled with idiots. Many of these people pushed for DLC to be added to competitive and didn't fight back at all when the switch to playstation was announced even though everyone already bought an xbox one. These people have no idea what they're talking about, and mostly just repeat what their favorite youtubers think.
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Dumien
True Bro
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No engrams. Only disappointment.
Posts: 3,292
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Post by Dumien on Dec 22, 2015 11:39:46 GMT -5
I used to expect hate mail, but the lovey-dovey Destiny community seems to have corrupted the hateful festering armpit that is the CoD playerbase. I've been getting messages saying things like "gg" and "well played. Wanna party up." Very surprising. Occasionally though a few hate mails slip through... the same kind of hate mail I'be been feeding off of for years. Today I received one such message, in less kind words, asking me to stop using the Brecci and "use a real gun." Pegasus Actual and some other friends (myself included) wondered what "a real gun" is according to this wise individual...after all I want to use a real weapon. Relishing the opportunity to learn new and useful information, I prodded: "should I be using an M8 or a vesper?" I want to be playing at my best! His response enlightened me. "Anything but a shotgun." Here is our probem ladies and gentlemen: Shotguns are not real. /topic
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Post by nopington on Dec 22, 2015 11:43:55 GMT -5
It probably registers multiple pellet hits as hitting X times with 1 shot. So if you fire once and 3 pellets hit that's 300% accuracy. (Just a guess idk for sure). On topic though. It's already been asked but do we have any idea what Long Barrel does on any of the shotties? I remember the consensus before was that it was not worth it but is this still the case? The spreadsheet that VoiD_Glitch manages has information on Long Barrel for shotguns. I'd have to assume it's correct and up-to-date. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zv1TA_dn9DKtHSNDGgMSgE4kXzfCJErTWA9yHYFxg5Y/
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 11:44:47 GMT -5
Here is our probem ladies and gentlemen: Shotguns are not real. /topic What a bummer.
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Post by UrbaneVirtuoso on Dec 22, 2015 12:44:40 GMT -5
You know Dumien, for the kind of tone your message had, it'd make a good difference even if you deliberate lightly.
Part of me would like to oblige that, if only because way too many of these people are so whiny to take seriously.Totally stealing that, by the way.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 22, 2015 19:56:57 GMT -5
Bullshit it's just using mind bullets LMGs that tick these people off. A large portion of the threads on the competitive cod subreddit were for a a while about how the LMGs should be banned or nerfed into the ground. And not just the Gorgon and Dredge, but all of them. I've that same kind of hate in many of responses to a thread someone made in the BO3 subreddit that asked why people were against viable LMGs. Again, anecdotal, but I even had an argument on Twitter with a better known CoD player who thought that LMGs were supposed to worse than ARs at long range. I've seen enough to know that there is a large portion of players whose thought process is "Foxtrot anyone that uses an LMG/Shotgun/Sniper" and Drift0r is one of the few better known youtubers that doesn't have that attitude. People don't want to adapt to situations, which is why they choose the ARs or SMGs as their weapon under the assumption that those weapons are supposed to be the best weapons at everything. They don't understand that balance means your weapon is better at some things in exchange for being worse at other things. The competitive cod subreddit is filled with idiots. Many of these people pushed for DLC to be added to competitive and didn't fight back at all when the switch to playstation was announced even though everyone already bought an xbox one. These people have no idea what they're talking about, and mostly just repeat what their favorite youtubers think. And what do their favorite youtubers use? ARs and SMGs. The CoD competitive community has a notable overlap with the SMG/AR community. The only difference between the two communities is that one knows about how certain scorestreaks and a few perks don't work in the more heavy competitive meta while the other community will whine about non-SMGs/ARs being cheap while they use stuff that can easily be considered just as OP and easy to use. A week ago I had a game where I ran a silenced KRM and I wrecked this one guy by constantly flanking him. And in response he said I was trash for using a shotgun. My go to response was obviously "let's see you use the silenced KRM" and his go to response was predictably "No, I don't use that, I use real guns", which I called out as a bullshit excuse and his only response was "give me a break". It's not just the competitive community that is dumb. It's the SMG/AR community that emulates people like 402thunder, as in the guy who complains because his AR lost to a shotgun in close range then goes and spams C4 in BO2.
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Post by illram on Dec 22, 2015 21:39:10 GMT -5
This is why I'm glad I mute everyone in every game all the time.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Dec 22, 2015 22:09:53 GMT -5
Here is our probem ladies and gentlemen: Shotguns are not real. /topic Well how can shotguns be real if SBMM isn't real?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2015 0:25:38 GMT -5
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tiesieman
True Bro
mental lagger
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Post by tiesieman on Jan 10, 2016 19:33:16 GMT -5
take ur shotguns back please
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2016 6:06:15 GMT -5
take ur shotguns back please Makes me glad shotguns have flat damage in BO3 now.
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Post by -3055- on Jan 11, 2016 16:44:00 GMT -5
N E R F
S H O T G U N S
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2016 13:40:55 GMT -5
I could swear Ubisoft games make shotguns suck for no other reason than being fashionable.
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