wings
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Post by wings on Nov 3, 2017 14:31:02 GMT -5
One way around PvE and PvP balancing would be to give the competitive playlists set loadouts. Allow more crazy stuff, excluding big outliers, and ditch balancing as a precise science (or an attempt of it) in other playlists. If gamers complain Bungie can tell them to go to either play the competitive game modes or play COD. PvE usually suffers because of PvP balances despite the majority of gamers playing PvE. Ever killed Golgoroth with legendary shotguns? The encounter was supposedly designed with them in mind. Good luck outputting enough damage using shotguns before he enrages. The only raid boss I think I've used shotguns on is Aksis. Not really weapon variety that Bungie seems to want to promote.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Nov 3, 2017 14:57:35 GMT -5
bradman and TheHawkNY helped me unlock call to arms on PMP3... thank you gents. Too bad someone else was too pooped and needed to do some light housekeeping (dusting, I believe) to play a crucible match or two with us.... Is our Resident PS4 Domestic Goddess tired today, GodMars? No, Janine was doing the dusting. You're going to make some lucky man a beautiful houseband, Mr. GodMars.... I bet you'll wear the frilly powder blue apron too |
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Nov 6, 2017 3:40:16 GMT -5
For what it's worth, I bought the CoD WW2. Downloaded it last night and played a bit this morning. some brief initial thoughts: 1. I didn't see a single lottery or loot crate anywhere. But I do think some form of that stuff is mixed in the game. I saw people getting package crates if they achieved some sort of challenge. 2. The graphics are incredible. Much nicer than Destiny. 3. The options on the PvP are just staggering. Really hits home how basic D2's pvp is. WW2 had private matches, CoDCaster, tons and tons of options. 4. I played three games and well, didn't do well. It's tough coming from D2. Boom...you're dead. Gunfights in CoD are over in 1/10th the time (as well all know). But the graphics, sound, aiming, connection, everything seemed smooth as butter. I don't think there's one person alive who would ever seriously debate that in almost every facet, that CoD's PVP outshines Destiny's PVP. EDIT: in every way shape or form, CoD is more polished, more smooth, more insert whatever facet of gaming you wish to put in than Destiny ever will be. CoD is a PVP machine that has it's execution down to a minute detailed science... (where the execution is well recieved or not is another debate) It would be a shock if CoD didn't have those features that you listed. It's like international olympic hockey with professional representation between Canada and Slovenia. While there might be an upset every century, ultimately, you know who is going to put up a superior effort and ultimately, who is going to win the game. It would be shocking if Bungie were able to pull off a Destiny game whose PVP was better than CoDs One thing, COD never did movement abilities right imho. Aim mechanics in destiny I just cannot get 100% used to though. |
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 6, 2017 10:16:15 GMT -5
Bungie has arguably already made two better PvP games than CoD: Halo 2 and Halo 3. I believe they absolutely could make a better PvP game than CoD if they really wanted to (and if ATVI would let them). They're never going to get there with Destiny though, not unless they bite the bullet and make some major changes. Separate PvP and PvE balance, 60 FPS on consoles (not an issue on PC, and the difference is huge and a big reason why CoD feels so much smoother), ranked play, private matches, and dedicated servers would be a start. I've kind of gone full circle with Halo/Destiny/CoD now. Halo 2 and 3 were basically the only PvP games I played regularly back then, but Halo got dropped as soon as I played Modern Warfare. Halo felt slow as molasses after that, and was almost unbearable to play for me. Now I've played so much Destiny that going back to MW:Remastered was equally as jarring. It's still fun, but I'm not a fan of the "he looked at me first, I died" super quick TTK and twitch shooting anymore, probably because I'm 32 and my reaction speed is not what it once was. The outplay potential just isn't there in a game like that. Granted, D2 lost a lot of outplay potential compared to D1 with all the hand-holding MIDA teams, but you still have more options for getting into or out of an engagement or "outskilling" an opponent than you do in CoD IMO. I played a fair amount of CoD this weekend between squeezing in a Bellator MMA event in Penn State and a Muay Thai event sat night, not sure how I got it all in. My thoughts are almost exactly what you wrote. - I had a brutally hard time switching back to D2 PvP after CoDWW2. Destiny felt slow. I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Two of the five games I had five kills or less. Everything was completely off. - I played up to level 25 in CoD over the weekend. That might be 70 games? Not sure. I don't think I am completely sucking in terms of performance, but I feel like it. My KD ratio is about 1.01 and I think my win ratio is like 0.65. But my performance just feels worse. If D2's TTK is around 2.50 seconds (assuming some dodging and weaving), COD's TTK feels like a solid 0.8 of second, and if you play HC mode, it's probably around 0.2 of a sec. I played a lot of HC mode, due to some friends wanting to play it. Good god, it was tough. "BOOM DEAD". By the time I spot the enemy, I am killed. Such a different style. - I tried to play core mode, but I struggled really bad. I just can't shoot anything. I am struggling here. Movement speed seems a bit fast, and if go full ADS to fire, the opponents are just running laterally faster than I can strafe or swing the gun. ADS strafe movement is like quicksand speed, and gun swinging is even worse. I just suck with this. This is an option for 'Stalker' mode later at Infantry completion, so I can strake much faster. That might help? I'm strugging here. HC mode helps as the game slows down...but then it the issue is "who sees who first x100" - If you feel old being 32, I'm in my mid 40's, and is that why i suck? Are my hand/eye/trigger reactions that much slower? I have no clue. I do know I have no clue about the maps and they are busy. Lots and lots of 'stuff' in them. Windows. Corners. Crates. You also really need to be able to spot people at really great distances or 'boom dead' in an instant. This is very hard to transition too. - CoD WW2 though so far is a really polished game though. The graphics, frame rate, hit detection, all that techy stuff....smooth as butter. I guess that's due to the 60fps, ded servers and other new stuff they added. It's nice. Everything is nice. So many options, choices and features, it's a bit overwhelming (and I haven't even gotten to zombies yet or the campaign). My only problem is I just am not very good at it. |
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Post by blackbarney on Nov 6, 2017 12:25:37 GMT -5
what a great post. Yeah, don't touch HC until you know the maps. If your map rotation is off by a bit, you get absolutely wrecked. ESPECIALLY with a new game where people play campers pampers more.
Really glad to see CoD posts in this Destiny thread cuz it's the only way i'll hear about the game. And like many of us, I'm also debating on jumping to CoD perhaps.
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 6, 2017 12:54:13 GMT -5
what a great post. Yeah, don't touch HC until you know the maps. If your map rotation is off by a bit, you get absolutely wrecked. ESPECIALLY with a new game where people play campers pampers more. Really glad to see CoD posts in this Destiny thread cuz it's the only way i'll hear about the game. And like many of us, I'm also debating on jumping to CoD perhaps. I'm playing both now and it's not easy. With CoD, I'm actually doing better at HC right now (and I've always been a core player). Not averaging a ton of kills, but probably have a 1.3 KD ratio in that mode. Having some rough games, but also getting some decent games in too, but not going deep negative. The slow pace just helps a bit, as I have more time to walk around, look around and set up. As you said, people camp more. HC TDM does have it's issues though. With no minimap, one can't see when the spawns flip. And not knowing the maps....that's a recipe for disaster. I'm dying a number of times a game from just being shot in the back. Frustrating. Core mode is where the main troubles lie right now. Especially when I venture into Domination. Early indicators seem to be pointing to people being able to spawn trap a little. Some of my solo dom matches have seen my team on the receiving end of some brutal beatdowns, where I might go like 20 and 40, or 15-28, etc..that wrecks one's overall KD. As well as one's ego. Makes the game not fun. I am slowly growing to like Destiny's PvP,....but I have no one (other than Hebbnh to play with). No one else really likes it and my friends list is mostly empty on D2 PvP players. This kind of sucks. These two FPS PvP games are so different. |
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bradman
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Post by bradman on Nov 6, 2017 16:10:15 GMT -5
what a great post. Yeah, don't touch HC until you know the maps. If your map rotation is off by a bit, you get absolutely wrecked. ESPECIALLY with a new game where people play campers pampers more. Really glad to see CoD posts in this Destiny thread cuz it's the only way i'll hear about the game. And like many of us, I'm also debating on jumping to CoD perhaps. I'm playing both now and it's not easy. With CoD, I'm actually doing better at HC right now (and I've always been a core player). Not averaging a ton of kills, but probably have a 1.3 KD ratio in that mode. Having some rough games, but also getting some decent games in too, but not going deep negative. The slow pace just helps a bit, as I have more time to walk around, look around and set up. As you said, people camp more. HC TDM does have it's issues though. With no minimap, one can't see when the spawns flip. And not knowing the maps....that's a recipe for disaster. I'm dying a number of times a game from just being shot in the back. Frustrating. Core mode is where the main troubles lie right now. Especially when I venture into Domination. Early indicators seem to be pointing to people being able to spawn trap a little. Some of my solo dom matches have seen my team on the receiving end of some brutal beatdowns, where I might go like 20 and 40, or 15-28, etc..that wrecks one's overall KD. As well as one's ego. Makes the game not fun. I am slowly growing to like Destiny's PvP,....but I have no one (other than Hebbnh to play with). No one else really likes it and my friends list is mostly empty on D2 PvP players. This kind of sucks. These two FPS PvP games are so different. Yep, there is some spawn trapping in Dom, it's a tough deal playing solo. For big game fun I go to War mode, more ebb and flow, and hey no effect on the 'ol kaytodizzle. |
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 6, 2017 16:28:18 GMT -5
War has no effect on the KD?
That's interesting. And good because I typically don't care to much when I start playing. And I have taken some ferocious beatings on that War game mode. In one game, my sorry azz team couldn't even get past the beach on the Operation Neptune map. My random teammates and I spent like five minutes just getting pummelled out in the ocean. I probably went like 5-30.
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Nov 6, 2017 17:52:09 GMT -5
I played some COD over the weekend and had a rough go of it. I felt like the majority of the time I would search for people to shoot only to get shot in the back. The maps all seem to be a huge complex of flanking routes, and I could never figure out where people were. Sound whoring feels impossible to me, mostly because my own footsteps and those of my teammates drown everything else out. TTK seems really fast when people are shooting me, but really slow when I am shooting other people... My accuracy is poor, and I was having the same problem of my weapon swing not keeping up with other people's run speed/strafing speed. Overall I played like crap, and also didn't find it particularly fun. 100% solo attempts so far. WAR is kinda fun, but I die a ton. The maps all seem super tight and cluttered - I had a hard time picking people out of all the debris and various hiding holes.
Overall, kinda regretting buying the game. BUT - one thing they still have right is the addictive grind. I am a compulsive completionist. The level grind, weapon grind, skill grind, etc. always kept me wanting to play one more game even though I was finding the games to be frustrating.
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bradman
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Post by bradman on Nov 7, 2017 8:37:39 GMT -5
War has no effect on the KD? That's interesting. And good because I typically don't care to much when I start playing. And I have taken some ferocious beatings on that War game mode. In one game, my sorry azz team couldn't even get past the beach on the Operation Neptune map. My random teammates and I spent like five minutes just getting pummelled out in the ocean. I probably went like 5-30. Yep, it's to encourage ptfo. 1v1 does count. |
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 7, 2017 9:02:58 GMT -5
I played some COD over the weekend and had a rough go of it. I felt like the majority of the time I would search for people to shoot only to get shot in the back. The maps all seem to be a huge complex of flanking routes, and I could never figure out where people were. Sound whoring feels impossible to me, mostly because my own footsteps and those of my teammates drown everything else out. TTK seems really fast when people are shooting me, but really slow when I am shooting other people... My accuracy is poor, and I was having the same problem of my weapon swing not keeping up with other people's run speed/strafing speed. Overall I played like crap, and also didn't find it particularly fun. 100% solo attempts so far. WAR is kinda fun, but I die a ton. The maps all seem super tight and cluttered - I had a hard time picking people out of all the debris and various hiding holes. Overall, kinda regretting buying the game. BUT - one thing they still have right is the addictive grind. I am a compulsive completionist. The level grind, weapon grind, skill grind, etc. always kept me wanting to play one more game even though I was finding the games to be frustratin If I didn't see your name up there, I would have thought I wrote this. I'm finding the same frustration. I almost want to call it a frustration circle lol. If I play Domination core, finding the enemy is easy. Right ahead. But then I run into the issues of people side strafing/bunny hopping right out of my aiming. I start shooting someone, get hit markers, they just bunny hop/jump/strafe to the side, shoot me, and I die. Add in solo play in Dom, I'm finding a lot of 18-22 type of loss games. The pace is fast, I move to fast, I die more. If I try to solve the above by playing HC (easier to kill), it does solve the above issue. But then I run into the OTHER above issues. Footsteps can be heard, but they are often mine and teammates, it all blurs. And this is needed because in HC-TDM, there is no map, so with random non talking teammates, there is no way to get a sense or feel what side the enemy is spawning on. The game has zero tactical ebb and 'flow'. It becomes just a clusterFoxtrot of running in circles trying to spot pindrops in windows and behind barrels. The pace is slower, I move slower, but it's more boring. So I keep circling around and around between the two issues. The only solution I have right now is trying to tap the trigger. Not go full on ADS. So like do a bit of the tapping ADS, hip fire with the release (so I can swivel my gun sight around) and then follow up with the kill shots. |
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 7, 2017 9:11:02 GMT -5
CoD-WW2 is a very nice, polished, A+ game. I just suck at it right now lol.
Now here comes the weird part. I stopped playing CoDWW2 aft4er the above last night and decided to go play Destiny's PvP. Talk about irony. And that turned out well. Hebbnh and I ended up getting together after I had played a few games. We grouped up with two other guys and played the Trials of Nine. I had an awesome time. I dare even say almost if not as much fun as doing the Raid the other night. Great time. First attempt we went 3-3 (I used my Titan) Second attempt (I used my Warlock), we started out 4-0, ended up going 5-3. First time I had ever won a game in the trials.
Who knows what the future will bring, but I had MUCH more fun playing Destiny's Trials last night. Weird part was, even when getting stomped by some of the better teams, I had like 1/100th the frustration that I had when playing CoD. Dying in CoD is like having one's fingernails pulled off. Every death is annoying.... some asshole bunny-hops out of your shot. A dick hiding behind a barrel. Some douche sniping in some obscure corner. The list of annoyances is long. With trials....I didn't feel any of it. Almost all the dying was due to simply being outplayed. Better tactics. Which is why the winning aspects and overall playing was just a better experience.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Nov 7, 2017 11:51:54 GMT -5
Yeah, we definitely need to make it a point to play Trials more often. Looking at how we did last night with two guys we'd never played with before whose stats are more or less in line with ours, without any serious strategy discussion or real callouts, and without everyone running top tier/"meta" loadouts (I ran a 10 mobility, 4 resistance, 0 recovery Arcstrider for shit's sake), I don't see any reason we couldn't run up at least a 5 win card fairly consistently. Maybe try to make Sunday or Monday a more routine Trials/PvP night, like Thursday is usually a raid/PvE night? I think that'd be great. I think venturing out from quickplay and into the "competitive" playlist when we've got 2 or more people partied up would be a good idea as well. That'd help get everyone more used to the Trials game modes, maps, objective placements, etc. so we wouldn't be going into Trials blind every time.
I'll second the lack of frustration as well. I felt like even when we were getting shithoused, and we got shithoused a few times, there was still something to learn from it. If you want to get better at PvP, I think Trials is the best place to do it. Almost every death came down to poor decision making or bad tactics, outside of end-of-round 3v1s or 4v1s where you kinda just screwed either way. I think I had maybe 1 or 2 deaths where I honestly don't know what I could have done to avoid dying, the rest were down to poor plays or bad execution on my part. Mistakes you don't think much of in quickplay are often exploited quickly and ruthlessly in Trials. Team movement, positioning, and routing are super important to avoid getting picked off from a sightline you didn't expect. If we get that stuff down I think we probably win several more games that were close, where we may have lost 4-0 or 4-1 but every round came down to the last couple lives. There may not ever be much we can do about getting steamrolled by 3000 ELO top 1% players (unless we get Bishop or Cha to team up with us), but outside of of those couple games, I think we could pretty quickly get to the point where we have a chance in every game.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Nov 7, 2017 13:58:12 GMT -5
CoD-WW2 is a very nice, polished, A+ game. I just suck at it right now lol. First attempt we went 3-3 (I used my Titan) Second attempt (I used my Warlock), we started out 4-0, ended up going 5-3. First time I had ever won a game in the trials. It's the same 3 words I've been speaking since D1 launch Warlock Master Race Bravo!!!  |
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 7, 2017 15:11:58 GMT -5
Yeah, we definitely need to make it a point to play Trials more often. Looking at how we did last night with two guys we'd never played with before whose stats are more or less in line with ours, without any serious strategy discussion or real callouts, and without everyone running top tier/"meta" loadouts (I ran a 10 mobility, 4 resistance, 0 recovery Arcstrider for shit's sake), I don't see any reason we couldn't run up at least a 5 win card fairly consistently. Maybe try to make Sunday or Monday a more routine Trials/PvP night, like Thursday is usually a raid/PvE night? I think that'd be great. I think venturing out from quickplay and into the "competitive" playlist when we've got 2 or more people partied up would be a good idea as well. That'd help get everyone more used to the Trials game modes, maps, objective placements, etc. so we wouldn't be going into Trials blind every time. I'll second the lack of frustration as well. I felt like even when we were getting shithoused, and we got shithoused a few times, there was still something to learn from it. If you want to get better at PvP, I think Trials is the best place to do it. Almost every death came down to poor decision making or bad tactics, outside of end-of-round 3v1s or 4v1s where you kinda just screwed either way. I think I had maybe 1 or 2 deaths where I honestly don't know what I could have done to avoid dying, the rest were down to poor plays or bad execution on my part. Mistakes you don't think much of in quickplay are often exploited quickly and ruthlessly in Trials. Team movement, positioning, and routing are super important to avoid getting picked off from a sightline you didn't expect. If we get that stuff down I think we probably win several more games that were close, where we may have lost 4-0 or 4-1 but every round came down to the last couple lives. There may not ever be much we can do about getting steamrolled by 3000 ELO top 1% players (unless we get Bishop or Cha to team up with us), but outside of of those couple games, I think we could pretty quickly get to the point where we have a chance in every game. I think we did sort of evolve a strategy by the second trials run. I felt like we had two rushers (you and the other guy), one guy sort of playing off, and me as anchor. I was trying to be very conservative as I didn't know those two other guys and I didn't want to die a lot (as the new guy). So I tried to think of CoD, different roles in the GB stuff....so I tried to be 'anchor' guy. I was trying to lock down the top by the B flag, as I could quickly shift left or right, and cover almost all the sightlines IF the other team tried coming out a flank. People wouldnt' flank knowing a MIDA was covering it. At least a solo flanker. so it seemed like IF we controlled B....mid map, we could control the middle, and if so, we could then be facing the first round of the power ammo. Like be on the good side of the pillar. And then if done, we got it, it would lead to a numerical advantage where we win even if we trade kills. So for that first initial phase, it seemed like IF we controlled B, mid map area, most of the initial fighting involved 2 v 2, 3 v 3, shooting down the map from the Rocket area, either 1) down the hallway past the heavy ammo, or 2) down the pipes hallway. One of those two. As long as that stayed like that, we had the advantage as we were on the heavy ammo side of the pillar. This is a positional win, even if we don't get any kills. So I tried to anchor with this in mind, 1) lock down the flanks (Glass, Stairs or Pipes)This worked. I got a lot of kills getting opponents trying to come in off the flanks, via the Stairs or pipes. They were going for you all in mid map...boom...I took them out. And 2) when the flanks were clear, shift quickly to the mid map (The Rocket area) and help add damage shots to your guy's shots via the power ammor/Center) or Pipes. If you all rushed, I tried to follow up and cover the flanks. This worked. Then once that phase was over, and the power ammor shifted, ...it seemed like it was best to keep mid area and avoid being down by the A flag. It seemed like whenever we lost, we got herded to that area. And whenever we were winning, we had the other team herded into that corner too. I don't know how true this was. It sure seemed like that. It seemed like when we lost, we got knocked out of our initial strategy very quickly. Speed blew up our setups and disrupted the above informal strategy we were using. I remember very clearly a couple of the better teams knocking out of B right away and then scattering us to the far perimeter spawns.  |
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 8, 2017 13:18:43 GMT -5
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Nov 8, 2017 13:32:58 GMT -5
Pretty worthless glitch spot honestly. After a kill or two the enemy team is going to scout rifle teamshot you into oblivion anyway, or just avoid that side of the map.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Nov 9, 2017 9:40:59 GMT -5
Fallout doing great work as usual:
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 9, 2017 10:06:58 GMT -5
I watched a little at the beginning, how did he test this out with a friend? Is there a private match mode?
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Post by TheHawkNY on Nov 9, 2017 11:10:17 GMT -5
bradman and TheHawkNY helped me unlock call to arms on PMP3... thank you gents. Too bad someone else was too pooped and needed to do some light housekeeping (dusting, I believe) to play a crucible match or two with us.... Is our Resident PS4 Domestic Goddess tired today, GodMars? No, Janine was doing the dusting. LOL you'll have to send her over to my place sometime to clean, I'm jealous. |
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Nov 9, 2017 12:31:51 GMT -5
I watched a little at the beginning, how did he test this out with a friend? Is there a private match mode? No, no private match option yet, supposed to be coming early next year. I think they just get in party chat together, then try to search for a match at the same time. Eventually two groups of four who both launch games at the same time are going to get matched together. That's what they did in D1 before private matches came out, anyway. |
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 9, 2017 12:47:21 GMT -5
I watched a little at the beginning, how did he test this out with a friend? Is there a private match mode? No, no private match option yet, supposed to be coming early next year. I think they just get in party chat together, then try to search for a match at the same time. Eventually two groups of four who both launch games at the same time are going to get matched together. That's what they did in D1 before private matches came out, anyway. wow, that's a ton of work and effort. |
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Nov 9, 2017 15:06:56 GMT -5
So, Trials this past weekend and the brief session Thebb, Mal, and I played Tuesday night got me thinking about what I need to do to become a better player. That's what getting facerolled by a top 100 Trials player and guys with 3+ KA/Ds (aka the "efficiency" shown in the post game report) does to me, I guess. It's obviously a lot more fun stomping opposing teams than being stomped, and while I don't think beating those types of players is going to happen anytime soon, if ever, I'd at least like to get to the point where I can compete with them a little bit. Maybe be at least a speedbump instead of just being roadkill all the time.
Anyway, I'm sitting at a 1.24 K/D and 1.64 KA/D today. My personal goal for now is to get those up to 1.5+ and 2.0+, respectively. Now, I know a lot of people say not to get caught up too much in the stats, and that good stats don't make you a good player, and whatever. And that's true to an extent, but at the same time, when's the last time a 1.25 K/D player put the same kind of beatdown on you that a 2.0 or 3.0 K/D player can? Probably never. Plus, this isn't CoD where tactical loitering in some obscure corner can get you free kills and inflate your stats. Most of what you get in D2 you're going to have to actually put in some effort for.
Ok, so I have a goal, now how am I supposed to get there? Kill more and die less, obviously, simple! Except that doesn't really work though. How am I supposed to kill more? I could stick with teammates more and probably get more teamshot kills, but then I may also be giving up kills I'd get by flanking instead. I could use meta weapons and class loadouts more often, which theoretically should allow me to win more gunfights. I could spend hours working on improving my aim and movement so I can win 1v1s at a better rate. All those things could help, but they all come with tradeoffs. More teamshotting = less flanking, more meta = less variety and (potentially) fun, and honestly, how much better is my aim going to get when I've been playing FPSs for 15 years and I'm in my 30s? Probably not enough better to make that much of a difference. All in all, I'd be looking at a big time commitment and/or a big change in playstyle and loadouts for what is probably a minimal improvement in killing potential, maybe an extra kill or two per game? Going back and adding in 2 extra kills to every game I've played so far still only gets me to a 1.44 K/D. So, that's a big investment that still probably doesn't quite get me where I want to be.
No. The actual answer for how to reach my goal is to kill the same amount and die less. Compared to all the above, dying less is easy. Like really fucking easy. Peek a corner and see two people ready to shoot back? GTFO! Don't shoot, don't try to kill one guy and trade, just GTFO. See a guy on radar but you're not sure if you're walking into a 1v1 or a 1v2 (or worse)? Run away! Know the enemy is holding down a lane? Find a different angle to challenge from or take a different route to get where you want to go. Win a fight and you see another enemy coming, but your health isn't recovered yet? Leave! I will guarantee that I (or anyone here, for that matter) could pretty easily find a way to die less every game. I know for a fact that I could drop 2 deaths a game (and, frankly, a lot more than that in some games) by simply paying better attention to the radar and my team's positioning. Two fewer deaths in each game I've played gets me to 1.56 K/D, right where I want to be, for now at least.
What's the point of all this? I don't know. Just sharing my thought process in the hopes that somebody might get something out of it. I for one know I've been too focused on the kills part of the K/D ratio, and I doubt I'm alone there. Something to think about I suppose.
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Nov 9, 2017 15:38:58 GMT -5
www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/7bty6q/tower_though_as_i_and_the_population_in_general/Some highlights: "...running away from unfavorable engagements has always been a valid tactic in FPS games, and in fact I would say it's one of the most important skills to learn in order to improve as a player..." "...as players have become less lethal, opportunities to simply back away from any fight that is going poorly have increased, and the rewards for doing so have increased as well."
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malgato
True Bro
Farm ammo, then everyone wipe.
Posts: 1,195
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Post by malgato on Nov 9, 2017 15:39:42 GMT -5
Still, while running away might be a good tactical strategy, it's boring...
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 9, 2017 16:06:59 GMT -5
So, Trials this past weekend and the brief session Thebb, Mal, and I played Tuesday night got me thinking about what I need to do to become a better player. That's what getting facerolled by a top 100 Trials player and guys with 3+ KA/Ds (aka the "efficiency" shown in the post game report) does to me, I guess. It's obviously a lot more fun stomping opposing teams than being stomped, and while I don't think beating those types of players is going to happen anytime soon, if ever, I'd at least like to get to the point where I can compete with them a little bit. Maybe be at least a speedbump instead of just being roadkill all the time. Anyway, I'm sitting at a 1.24 K/D and 1.64 KA/D today. My personal goal for now is to get those up to 1.5+ and 2.0+, respectively. Now, I know a lot of people say not to get caught up too much in the stats, and that good stats don't make you a good player, and whatever. And that's true to an extent, but at the same time, when's the last time a 1.25 K/D player put the same kind of beatdown on you that a 2.0 or 3.0 K/D player can? Probably never. Plus, this isn't CoD where tactical loitering in some obscure corner can get you free kills and inflate your stats. Most of what you get in D2 you're going to have to actually put in some effort for. Ok, so I have a goal, now how am I supposed to get there? Kill more and die less, obviously, simple! Except that doesn't really work though. How am I supposed to kill more? I could stick with teammates more and probably get more teamshot kills, but then I may also be giving up kills I'd get by flanking instead. I could use meta weapons and class loadouts more often, which theoretically should allow me to win more gunfights. I could spend hours working on improving my aim and movement so I can win 1v1s at a better rate. All those things could help, but they all come with tradeoffs. More teamshotting = less flanking, more meta = less variety and (potentially) fun, and honestly, how much better is my aim going to get when I've been playing FPSs for 15 years and I'm in my 30s? Probably not enough better to make that much of a difference. All in all, I'd be looking at a big time commitment and/or a big change in playstyle and loadouts for what is probably a minimal improvement in killing potential, maybe an extra kill or two per game? Going back and adding in 2 extra kills to every game I've played so far still only gets me to a 1.44 K/D. So, that's a big investment that still probably doesn't quite get me where I want to be. No. The actual answer for how to reach my goal is to kill the same amount and die less. Compared to all the above, dying less is easy. Like really Foxtroting easy. Peek a corner and see two people ready to shoot back? GTFO! Don't shoot, don't try to kill one guy and trade, just GTFO. See a guy on radar but you're not sure if you're walking into a 1v1 or a 1v2 (or worse)? Run away! Know the enemy is holding down a lane? Find a different angle to challenge from or take a different route to get where you want to go. Win a fight and you see another enemy coming, but your health isn't recovered yet? Leave! I will guarantee that I (or anyone here, for that matter) could pretty easily find a way to die less every game. I know for a fact that I could drop 2 deaths a game (and, frankly, a lot more than that in some games) by simply paying better attention to the radar and my team's positioning. Two fewer deaths in each game I've played gets me to 1.56 K/D, right where I want to be, for now at least. What's the point of all this? I don't know. Just sharing my thought process in the hopes that somebody might get something out of it. I for one know I've been too focused on the kills part of the K/D ratio, and I doubt I'm alone there. Something to think about I suppose. Play grouped up more and avoid dying. That should raise it 50% I played five games this morning solo. Perfect example of why solo play sucks. I went negative in three of the five games and I lost all five of them. Two were games-in-progress. One was against a group. And the other two, my team just sucked azz. I'm sure my stats just got crushed. |
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markopolo
True Bro
Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
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Post by markopolo on Nov 9, 2017 16:10:00 GMT -5
If I hear a roaming super being popped, I run.
I'm not ashamed to admit it... especially the roaming arc supers.
I've run away, then killed my chaser a lot of times.
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malgato
True Bro
Farm ammo, then everyone wipe.
Posts: 1,195
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Post by malgato on Nov 9, 2017 16:11:56 GMT -5
If I hear a roaming super being popped, I quickly switch to Hardlight and start a disco party to alert the super dude to my location.
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 9, 2017 16:11:58 GMT -5
www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/7bty6q/tower_though_as_i_and_the_population_in_general/Some highlights: "...running away from unfavorable engagements has always been a valid tactic in FPS games, and in fact I would say it's one of the most important skills to learn in order to improve as a player..." "...as players have become less lethal, opportunities to simply back away from any fight that is going poorly have increased, and the rewards for doing so have increased as well." this is a decent post. The article just glances over this in one sentence, but it is huge. One of the most often overlooked things is the 4v4 format in D2. In CoD, with it being 6v6, or 8v8, a bad person could be hidden in a game. His effect doesn't automatically wipe out a team's chances. In D2, with team-shooting so important, having a player who doesn't do well just kills you. Even worse yet, the person doesn't even have to die a lot. If he simply isn't staying with the group....this person almost guarantees your side a Loss. 3v4 is a huge disadvantage with the long TTKs. |
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hebbnh
True Bro
Cacodemon expert
Posts: 2,688
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Post by hebbnh on Nov 9, 2017 16:30:27 GMT -5
Still, while running away might be a good tactical strategy, it's boring... While I think this is somewhat true, I also have some very memorable plays that started with me dipping out of a fight I was going to lose had I not ran away. I think it probably balances out in the long run. |
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