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Post by Marvel4 on Nov 20, 2013 4:18:01 GMT -5
See signature.
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Nov 20, 2013 4:30:31 GMT -5
Um what? Burst fire adds damage multipliers? That could be decent with the SA-805 and FAD, assuming recoil is controllable. Any info on burst delays?
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Nov 20, 2013 4:45:58 GMT -5
I like the fact that IW at least tried to balance everything this game. Unlike 3arch who kept the same damage etc for full auto etc etc, which lead to the fact that at least some of the versions of a gun where simply outclassed by others (at least when BO2 just came out). At least they had the insight that a burst variant needs something extra to make it worth the attachment slot etc etc. It might be balanced or not in the end, we will see. While some might not agree with me, this game really shows that they at least put some effort into it.
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exxtrooper
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Post by exxtrooper on Nov 20, 2013 4:47:05 GMT -5
Is there any burst fire configuration that makes the weapon comparable to the MSBS with the two-shot ability?
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Nov 20, 2013 4:49:04 GMT -5
Is there any burst fire configuration that makes the weapon comparable to the MSBS with the two-shot ability? Yes and no, do you like shooting at feet? Edit: FAD, SA and Honey Badger seem to be the best 3 round burst contenders IMHO. The AK is no good because the first round has increased recoil, and 1.1 doesn't really help with the long range damage. Remington has the same issue. Fad needs both hits to hit the torso to get that 2 hk, but it fires fast, has a big clip and becomes a 3hk on range (if all hit the torso). The decreased recoil for the first 7 rounds also helps (I think) SA has 40 max damage, making it a 2 hk even if you only hit the torso once. It has decent range, and 25 min damage Honey Badger has 40+ max damage as well (only one hit needs to hit the torso), and a longer 2 hk range than a silenced SA (almost the same range as un-silenced MSBS!). The added bonus is that you still have a attachment slot after using burst and silencer. The big deal is the burst delay I guess, if it is as big as the msbs burst is probably not worth it, if it is smaller, is seems a viable tactic.
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Post by Voice from the Basement on Nov 20, 2013 9:27:29 GMT -5
Fire Time * 0.92 Fire Time * 0.8 So, Burst Fire attachment increases RoF? Without adding a burst delay? You know, MSBS has a burst delay, while with MR-28 w/ Burst Fire attached you can shoot at 750 RPM with no delay and you still can kill with a single headshot…
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Post by quickbuck on Nov 20, 2013 9:42:44 GMT -5
So how does that fire time 1.3 for semi auto translate into a rpm rate of fire?
I found the AK12 unbearably slow, the ARX was slow but bearable, but still seemed slower and weaker than MR28, so all in all I wasn't much impressed.
But at least they're trying something new, even if pretty pointlessly unless it is vaguely competitive.
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42
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Post by 42 on Nov 20, 2013 10:09:57 GMT -5
So how does that fire time 1.3 for semi auto translate into a rpm rate of fire? I found the AK12 unbearably slow, the ARX was slow but bearable, but still seemed slower and weaker than MR28, so all in all I wasn't much impressed. But at least they're trying something new, even if pretty pointlessly unless it is vaguely competitive. Inverse of 1.3 is how you determine how it affects RPM. 1/1.3=.7692307692 Multiply that number by the RPM and that's your new fire rate.
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hyperion
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Post by hyperion on Nov 20, 2013 12:30:43 GMT -5
Is there any burst fire configuration that makes the weapon comparable to the MSBS with the two-shot ability? Burst remington is about as close as you're going to get.
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Post by Marvel4 on Nov 20, 2013 13:15:10 GMT -5
Without adding a burst delay? Burst delay is 0.2 seconds for all weapons.
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Post by quickbuck on Nov 20, 2013 13:28:00 GMT -5
Thanks 42
interesting. So in theory the Arx should be well beyond the MR28 firecap. Didn't feel like that, will have another try. But there isn't too much point in using it anyway, with marvel's other stats, except maybe with steady aim added to enhance the good hipfire into a usable panic shotgun, which it did perform ok as (but you can have an actual underbarrel shotgun for the same cost).
outside of that, unless I'm missing something, there really isn't much point in using any of the others: you've got a - body shot or better - iron sight MR28 (at best, that's for the fast firing ARs) for the same cost as an MR28 with a sight or attachment of your choice.
The Honey Badger gives you a free silencer, but you've then spent that point on the semi auto, after which it doesn't perform as well as an MR28 would with silencer.
Seems like a good idea, poorly executed.
Pity those fools who were claiming this would be OP...
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Nov 20, 2013 15:48:09 GMT -5
If you're playing on console, remember to round down to the nearest 450/514/600/720/900 rpm for (most) firerate calculations.
Interesting to note that some weapons drop into a different firerate tier when they have these attachments:
-Honey Badger, FAD, and ARX-160 all drop to 600rpm with Semi-Auto. HB and ARX will have pretty consistent 2 shot kills up to medium range, making them comparable to the MR-28. You get the same performance before damage dropoff while leaving a slot available for a barrel attachment without having to spend a slot on an optic for close range. FAD needs 2 body shots to 2HK, doesn't seem worth it considering its high ROF actually translates to slightly faster real world rpm on consoles. -SC-2010, SA-805, and AK-12 all drop to 514rpm with Semi-Auto. This is slower than the MR-28 and none of them have as consistent a damage profile, would not recommend using, especially the AK-12 with its extra first shot recoil. -R5 drops to 450rpm with Semi-Auto. It does have that nice first shot recoil-reduction but this is still slower than all MRs but the SVU.
-FAD and ARX-160 jump to 900rpm per burst with that attachment. The ARX is particularly interesting given its recoil reduction over the first 2 rounds (effectively over the full burst since recoil on the last shot doesn't matter.) FAD can now 1 burst out to any range at 900rpm if at least 2 shots are body shots (Not sure about this, depends on how CoD handles damage rounding.) Should theoretically be the most powerful long range burst gun if the recoil isn't too bad. Nothing a grip can't fix. -SC-2010, SA-805 and Honey Badger do not jump firerate tiers. SA-805 and HB both get consistent 2 shot kills, SC-2010 not so much but benefits from having lower overall recoil, minimizing the negative impact of the attachment. SA-805 can 1 burst at range if at least 2 are body shots (has not been verified empirically.) -AK-12 gets bumped to 720rpm. Because of the lowered multipliers though, you can not 1 burst at long ranges. Same with R5, but it was longer range to begin with and doesn't get the firerate bump.
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hyperion
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Post by hyperion on Nov 20, 2013 16:13:31 GMT -5
Anyone happen to know the stats of Full auto on the MSBS? I know the recoil is insane but still curious on the numbers.
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42
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Post by 42 on Nov 20, 2013 16:16:09 GMT -5
Fully Automatic: Range * 0.9 Fire Time * 1.1 Damage Multipliers: Head: 1.4 Neck, Torso and Limbs: 0.9 Attention to detail
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hyperion
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Post by hyperion on Nov 20, 2013 16:29:33 GMT -5
Fully Automatic: Range * 0.9 Fire Time * 1.1 Damage Multipliers: Head: 1.4 Neck, Torso and Limbs: 0.9 Attention to detail detail details always in the details
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42
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Post by 42 on Nov 20, 2013 16:30:58 GMT -5
And before you ask, no, it does not affect Centerspeed, just removes burst delay essentially plus all those other bad multipliers
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hyperion
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Post by hyperion on Nov 20, 2013 17:09:11 GMT -5
And before you ask, no, it does not affect Centerspeed, just removes burst delay essentially plus all those other bad multipliers well its pretty obvious centerspeed isnt touched since msbs full auto recoil is insane.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 20, 2013 17:15:38 GMT -5
so...if I'm reading all of this right...two guns look very good with burst fire.
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Post by Judge_St3vo on Nov 20, 2013 17:24:38 GMT -5
so...if I'm reading all of this right...two guns look very good with burst fire. ARX and FAD? I think the other overall RPMs with the .2 sec burst delay will be painfully slow. Truthfully, I think the only one that looks intriguing compared to the MSBS is the FAD because of its 1 burst potential at any range.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Nov 20, 2013 17:36:36 GMT -5
FAD has free big ammo as well.
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Post by Judge_St3vo on Nov 20, 2013 17:45:03 GMT -5
FAD has free big ammo as well. Centerspeed is slightly higher than the MSBS too when burst fire equipped.
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Nov 20, 2013 17:51:30 GMT -5
The recoil is way too much on the FAD with burst fire. Even the most accurate ARs like the SC and AK can't stay accurate with burst fire mode from what I experienced. Plus, the extra hipspread pretty much make them worse than the MSBS.
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Nov 20, 2013 18:06:44 GMT -5
Just tested the ARX with burst fire. It definitely fires pretty quickly, though I can't tell if it's actually faster than the MSBS, sure does feel that way though. Recoil with a grip is pretty good, not as straight up as the MSBS but overall more controllable I think. ARX is a little better at close range I feel but it's not as accurate at a distance. It's one of the few weapons that I think really benefits from the Burst Fire attachment as it finally takes advantage of that high RoF. Also, with burst fire, hip spread only increases to 3.6-7.2, only slightly worse than all other ARs normally and much better than any other burst AR. This makes a big difference for close range.
TL;DR: ARX is a pretty cool guy, eh is very effective at close range and doesn't afraid of anything.
I'll test out some of the other weapons and report back.
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Nov 21, 2013 0:11:15 GMT -5
Yeah, so instead of testing out other guns I just got sucked into how good the arx burst fire is. Running this setup:
ARX + Burst Fire / Grip / Muzzle Break -- IED -- Attachments / Quickdraw / Focus / Amplify
Thing is beast mode, automatic 3+ k/d and guaranteed streaks. On smaller maps, swap out muzzle break for a silencer or Stalker.
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hyperion
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Post by hyperion on Nov 21, 2013 0:21:31 GMT -5
Yeah, so instead of testing out other guns I just got sucked into how good the arx burst fire is. Running this setup: ARX + Burst Fire / Grip / Muzzle Break -- IED -- Attachments / Quickdraw / Focus / Amplify Thing is beast mode, automatic 3+ k/d and guaranteed streaks. On smaller maps, swap out muzzle break for a silencer or Stalker. Is grip really needed since its burst mode?
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Nov 21, 2013 0:26:59 GMT -5
I feel like it recoils too much otherwise. I tried it with an rds initially and I didn't like it. Tracker might be good but I'm not a fan of the tunnel vision. All I know is focus is essential. It should be on every class, playing without it is the single biggest cripple.
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Nov 21, 2013 1:53:56 GMT -5
The MSBS' burst firerate is so troll for console players at just under 900 rpm so I could see an ARX with burst fire being equivalent to an MSBS with a rapid fire bonus. I'll have to try it out at some point but I feel like I will not like it with the range and accuracy disadvantage is has over the MSBS.
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tooros
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Post by tooros on Nov 21, 2013 4:32:21 GMT -5
Interesting thread. I tried 3 burst and semi with the r5 and hated the burst. The semi was ok but no better than anything else I'd used. I'll have a try burst with the badger, fad and arx later. I'm not getting any MSBS rage as yet but it'd be good to have a swap out to prove a point. I couldn't see a use for the ARX at all so maybe this is it
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exxtrooper
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Post by exxtrooper on Nov 21, 2013 5:28:30 GMT -5
Yeah, so instead of testing out other guns I just got sucked into how good the arx burst fire is. Running this setup: ARX + Burst Fire / Grip / Muzzle Break -- IED -- Attachments / Quickdraw / Focus / Amplify Thing is beast mode, automatic 3+ k/d and guaranteed streaks. On smaller maps, swap out muzzle break for a silencer or Stalker. Doesn't the 17 minimum damage become a problem at long range? Its one of the main reasons I never use the gun.
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Post by blindfire on Nov 21, 2013 5:30:49 GMT -5
The usefulness of burst fire depends on how many bullets must hit 1.5 to get any bonus.
I tried the FAD and it is awful, it only kills in 3 bullets at long range if 2 of them hit the torso. And is a 3 bullet kill at point blank range, and the recoil reduction does not seem to work, and ...
I also tried the ARX, it works well but does not feel any better than the MSBS. The only advantages are to look cool and to piss off opponents with an otherwise crappy gun.
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