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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Feb 11, 2016 7:16:58 GMT -5
SMGs have always had a distinct agility/handling advantage in every COD game ever made. And it's never been a problem. Why even have separate classes if they all handle the same? Like I said, nerf other things like recoil, damage, range, etc. Not the agility of the weapon. But this is always how Treyarch handles balancing, make all the guns the same instead of trying for some sense of variety.
From now on it looks like I'll be sticking to KN44, HVK30, XR2, and M8. I can throw away my remaining SMG classes.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Feb 11, 2016 7:37:46 GMT -5
Quickdraw on SMGs was ridiculous. I'm not saying everything Treyarch does is correct but 0.35 was clearly too good of a multiplier.
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banana
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Posts: 1,577
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Post by banana on Feb 11, 2016 9:52:22 GMT -5
0.5 would be good though the average kdr might disagree so who knows. If they see anything crazy after a month I would go with .5
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Post by flatulentmonkeys on Feb 11, 2016 10:30:44 GMT -5
I don't understand all the whining... The KN is now competitive with the rest of the ARs. The Vesper is now as it should be (close range preferred). The SMGs aren't the de facto option anymore. Let me backtrack a tad, I think SMGs should have a slightly quicker ADS than ARs for obvious reasons, but not 100% quicker. Maybe 25%. But that's a minor gripe, to me as I hipfire FIRST in SMG engagements, then move to ADS shooting the whole time. Unless I'm challenging a longer range fight, which in that case ADS time doesn't affect it (using stock does  ). The Vesper still wrecks on small maps and close range gunfights, but is VERY difficult to control at longer ranges... as it should be. This patch brings an even better balance, IMO. What's the best AR now? M8 for some? XR-2? Man-O-War? Heck, now the KN is in this conversation. What's the best SMG? The Kuda isn't the obvious choice. It competes with the VMP. And the Pharo (if you like the burst). And the Vesper if you avoid challenging long(er) range gunfights. |
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Feb 11, 2016 11:10:27 GMT -5
The Razorback has almost free Quickdraw. Just by the other SMGs getting nerfed, the Razorback is now now longer the Razorwhack.
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Post by esupin on Feb 11, 2016 12:13:26 GMT -5
The Razorback has almost free Quickdraw. Just by the other SMGs getting nerfed, the Razorback is now now longer the Razorwhack. I think I'm going to unlock it when I prestige. I liked it even before the weapon changes, and this will probably replace the Kuda as my go-to SMG. |
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Post by djangoraw on Feb 11, 2016 16:03:08 GMT -5
I mean they could buff the AR's or reduce range increase recoil on SMGS, but that would make too much sense. Better just ruin the SMG category completely so slow people like Von wont get wrecked. I wouldn't say they're ruined. It's just now ARs stand a chance to be able to react against SMGs instead of always being at a disadvantage because SMGs are always just faster at everything. Before, ARs just felt pointless to someone who doesn't want to sit in a window, on a use mind bullets, or prone all game. Now maybe people who like to move around can use something else besides SMGs without feeling hindered. No people who like to move around will feel more hindered because everything is slower. If they were trying to help people who like to move around they would've buffed stock on AR's. They could've buffed the AR ADS speed, they could've slightly reduced the SMG ADS speed. Making them the same in the MIDDLE OF A GAME, is the dumbest thing I've seen. SMG's have had a 50-100ms ADS advantage in every single COD, and most CODs have still been AR dominant. AR's did almost feel pointless if you didn't want to sit in a window because AR's were slower than they've ever been before, not because the SMG's were fast. Not only is stock slower than previous games, but AR's receive an 11% penalty when firing, while SMG's only receive a 5% penalty. I'll agree a 35% reduction was pretty ridiculous especially compared to the 70% AR's had, but they're the ones who chose that in the first place. It was 50% for SMGs and 60% for AR's in BO2, they could've left it alone. |
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Post by fhelps on Feb 11, 2016 16:33:23 GMT -5
What do the "idle amounts decreased" changes do? I'm not familiar with what "idle amount" means. It refers to the idle sway, which is the movement of the weapon's sights without any input from the player. Now I may be wrong but I think that "idle amount" would basically be how much idle sway the gun has, and the "idle speed" would be how fast the movement is. |
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Post by flatulentmonkeys on Feb 11, 2016 17:23:46 GMT -5
What do the "idle amounts decreased" changes do? I'm not familiar with what "idle amount" means. It refers to the idle sway, which is the movement of the weapon's sights without any input from the player. Now I may be wrong but I think that "idle amount" would basically be how much idle sway the gun has, and the "idle speed" would be how fast the movement is. This is how I interpret it as well. |
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Post by omega8trigun on Feb 17, 2016 6:47:06 GMT -5
I wouldn't say they're ruined. It's just now ARs stand a chance to be able to react against SMGs instead of always being at a disadvantage because SMGs are always just faster at everything. Before, ARs just felt pointless to someone who doesn't want to sit in a window, on a use mind bullets, or prone all game. Now maybe people who like to move around can use something else besides SMGs without feeling hindered. No people who like to move around will feel more hindered because everything is slower. If they were trying to help people who like to move around they would've buffed stock on AR's. They could've buffed the AR ADS speed, they could've slightly reduced the SMG ADS speed. Making them the same in the MIDDLE OF A GAME, is the dumbest thing I've seen. SMG's have had a 50-100ms ADS advantage in every single COD, and most CODs have still been AR dominant. AR's did almost feel pointless if you didn't want to sit in a window because AR's were slower than they've ever been before, not because the SMG's were fast. Not only is stock slower than previous games, but AR's receive an 11% penalty when firing, while SMG's only receive a 5% penalty. I'll agree a 35% reduction was pretty ridiculous especially compared to the 70% AR's had, but they're the ones who chose that in the first place. It was 50% for SMGs and 60% for AR's in BO2, they could've left it alone. The thing is I'm pretty sure they're trying to make SMGs less dominant in general, not just buff ARs. So if they weren't going to nerf SMGs, they'd be trying to buff everything else which would be a mess. Though I do agree that they did too much that hurt AR mobility and mobility in general (stock nerf, even more move speed reduction when firing). I do think it was pretty on the money in BO2 in that regard. Other than the fact that if you didn't intend on sitting in cover all game with a AR you pretty much had to use stock, but at least you could and it felt usable. But even in BO2 for a good amount of the game's life cycle people complained SMGs were too good, even when ARs were better back then. |
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Post by omega8trigun on Feb 17, 2016 7:09:59 GMT -5
I don't understand all the whining... The KN is now competitive with the rest of the ARs. The Vesper is now as it should be (close range preferred). The SMGs aren't the de facto option anymore. Let me backtrack a tad, I think SMGs should have a slightly quicker ADS than ARs for obvious reasons, but not 100% quicker. Maybe 25%. But that's a minor gripe, to me as I hipfire FIRST in SMG engagements, then move to ADS shooting the whole time. Unless I'm challenging a longer range fight, which in that case ADS time doesn't affect it (using stock does ). The Vesper still wrecks on small maps and close range gunfights, but is VERY difficult to control at longer ranges... as it should be. This patch brings an even better balance, IMO. What's the best AR now? M8 for some? XR-2? Man-O-War? Heck, now the KN is in this conversation. What's the best SMG? The Kuda isn't the obvious choice. It competes with the VMP. And the Pharo (if you like the burst). And the Vesper if you avoid challenging long(er) range gunfights. I don't understand it either. I think people are just really opposed to change. I would say in general Pharo is best if you can be accurate with it. Though it really punishes you if you miss. It's one of the better handling SMGs, with decent range and a 3 shot kill range as well as a good rof. But it does kind of depend now. Like you said, if you can limit your engagements, Vesper is still really good where it's supposed to be. And I feel like VMP and Kuda will still be used a lot just because they're the easiest to use. |
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Post by omega8trigun on Feb 17, 2016 7:12:59 GMT -5
The Razorback has almost free Quickdraw. Just by the other SMGs getting nerfed, the Razorback is now now longer the Razorwhack. This is another thing that I think is good about these changes. They effectively buff the Weevil and the Razorback. Even though they still have generally worse ttk than a lot of other SMGs they have a niche benefit of having better handling that can at least help you win one on one gunfights against the better ttk ones. |
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Post by dpkaufman on Feb 18, 2016 18:21:53 GMT -5
I'm a fan of the Vesper nerf especially - I loved using it, but it was so good all the way out to mid range that it made all the other SMGs feel kind of pointless for me. Now I can actually enjoy using the razorback without feeling like I'm cutting myself *too* short.
You are my bro, bro.
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Post by freshmuffins on Feb 20, 2016 1:39:17 GMT -5
Seems to have been a game settings update for PC. The P-06 charge up time between bursts is noticeably longer. People are also claiming the Drakon has a lower ROF than the Shieva now but I honestly can't tell a difference. Should be interesting to see what the actual differences are and if the supposed shotgun buffs from last patch were included with this one.
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Post by lackingdamage on Feb 20, 2016 8:39:07 GMT -5
Seems to have been a game settings update for PC. The P-06 charge up time between bursts is noticeably longer. People are also claiming the Drakon has a lower ROF than the Shieva now but I honestly can't tell a difference. Should be interesting to see what the actual differences are and if the supposed shotgun buffs from last patch were included with this one. Curious if this change is real or not if the changes have come to console. Don't hold out much faith anything has changed. |
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Post by Marvel4 on Feb 20, 2016 13:31:58 GMT -5
Drakon: Fire time increased by 15.74%
P-06: Burst delay increased by 55.56%
205 Brecci: Fire time increased by 13.07%
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Post by UrbaneVirtuoso on Feb 20, 2016 14:12:43 GMT -5
Dohoho that last one.
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Feb 20, 2016 15:08:53 GMT -5
FFFFFFFudge. My poor Brecci.
EDIT: It's still pretty good.
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Post by kenster on Feb 20, 2016 16:37:29 GMT -5
Is this only on the PC? Been using the P06 on the PS4 and haven't felt a difference. Maybe it's just me
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Slick
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Taking the piss
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Post by Slick on Feb 20, 2016 17:00:09 GMT -5
Disclaimer, not actual quotes of Developers. MW3 has my vote for most diverse, strategic cod now. And fuck the p2w crossbow buried in the black market.
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Post by broth3r on Feb 20, 2016 21:49:57 GMT -5
Is this only on the PC? Been using the P06 on the PS4 and haven't felt a difference. Maybe it's just me Well, the word is it's only on PC, but there's no way to confirm that other than hand testing on console. EDIT: Disregard, look below. |
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Post by kylet357 on Feb 21, 2016 2:54:11 GMT -5
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Post by freshmuffins on Feb 21, 2016 5:10:31 GMT -5
PCDev confirmed that this is a PC change only.
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Post by kirbyderby on Feb 21, 2016 7:32:04 GMT -5
P-06: Burst delay increased by 55.56% Since the P-06 doesn't have a rechamber animation and its fire rate was already limited by the charge time, you can entirely negate this nerf just by weapon swapping between bursts.   |
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Usagi
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Grin and Barrett
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Post by Usagi on Feb 21, 2016 13:23:42 GMT -5
I saw someone do that with the Brecci a few weeks back. Ish was crazy, fam.
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JustABitAgroed
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Post by JustABitAgroed on Feb 21, 2016 20:51:26 GMT -5
According to Drift0r the P-06's Burst Delay was .7s around the beginning of the game (his in-depth of it). Does anyone know when that was changed? (Not super important obviously but just if you happen to know.)
Edit: Perhaps he considered the Charge Time to be part of the Burst Delay?
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Post by omega8trigun on Feb 27, 2016 12:48:00 GMT -5
So now some weapons are different on pc compared to console? Weird. Were those guns really that amazing on pc? I knew a lot of people used the drakon on pc but the p-06 is kind of surprising.
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Usagi
True Bro
Grin and Barrett
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Post by Usagi on Feb 27, 2016 19:44:16 GMT -5
So now some weapons are different on pc compared to console? Weird. Were those guns really that amazing on pc? I knew a lot of people used the drakon on pc but the p-06 is kind of surprising. They're both in a tier of their own even after the nerfs. |
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haoz
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Post by haoz on Feb 28, 2016 21:08:28 GMT -5
I stumbled on a tmartn video from yesterday saying the Weevil was buffed two weeks or so ago when the Vesper was hit. He said the 4 shot kill range was increased. I stare at the stat chart and don't quite see it. 4 shot kill range is 800. The Kuda still beats the Weevil with a 4SK range of 1000 and also by having a 3SK range. The Kuda also has a somewhat nicer recoil pattern. What's so great about the Weevil beyond ammo and slightly better handling?
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JustABitAgroed
True Bro
Reasons to never go on GFAQs: 1. I'm considered an expert there. 2. It's GFAQs. I mean, come on man.
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Post by JustABitAgroed on Feb 28, 2016 21:22:59 GMT -5
I stumbled on a tmartn video from yesterday saying the Weevil was buffed two weeks or so ago when the Vesper was hit. He said the 4 shot kill range was increased. I stare at the stat chart and don't quite see it. 4 shot kill range is 800. The Kuda still beats the Weevil with a 4SK range of 1000 and also by having a 3SK range. The Kuda also has a somewhat nicer recoil pattern. What's so great about the Weevil beyond ammo and slightly better handling? First rule of CoD YouTube: Don't talk about CoD YouTube. Second rule of CoD YouTube: TmarTn has no idea what he's talking about. The 30 Damage range was buffed to match the 29 Damage range. The buff was for Touch Football. It didn't affect core practically at all. What's so great about the Weevil? Ammo capacity. That's really it. Edit: Never noticed that HC is changed to Touch Football. That's pretty great. |
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). The Vesper still wrecks on small maps and close range gunfights, but is VERY difficult to control at longer ranges... as it should be. 
