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Post by Blurred Wolf on Dec 13, 2015 13:19:10 GMT -5
I like how the conclusion basically hasn't changed through all this discussion rofl.
I find it strange how it takes the longer of the two times instead of just adding sprint-out and ads-in together.
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JustABitAgroed
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Post by JustABitAgroed on Dec 13, 2015 14:47:23 GMT -5
I like how the conclusion basically hasn't changed through all this discussion rofl. I find it strange how it takes the longer of the two times instead of just adding sprint-out and ads-in together. Well, we've made some progress. If you want to reduce the time it takes to be able to fire while ADS'd then both perks are useless without Quickdraw. So all that we really need to do is test whether Gung-ho + Quickdraw or Fast Hands + Quickdraw lets you shoot while ADS'd after sprinting faster. Judging by what Marvel said, being able to shoot "almost instantly" after sprinting sounds a lot better than the 50% reduction of Fast Hands. So, assuming that Gung-ho reduces your Sprintout time more than Fast Hands, which is fairly clear although not yet proven, then Gung-ho would be the better choice. However, it also competes with the best perks in the game in the tier 3 slot. Which means that the superior sprint-out time might not be worth it, especially when it could even be overkill in a lot of cases since it seems as though the ADS and sprintout times for most weapons are very similar. To the second, banana and Marvel4 had very good explanations of it on the second page. You can also find a good explanation of it here: denkirson.proboards.com/thread/6176/sprint-out-times-ads?page=1&scrollTo=146533 |
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Post by Blurred Wolf on Dec 14, 2015 13:08:35 GMT -5
I understand all this. What I meant was that we basically had this conclusion a week ago yet discussion continued.
So let's finalise this one more time to make it nice and simple.
NOTE: This is assuming Gung-Ho reduces Sprint Out Time to near 0 (zero).
If we are trying to optimise Sprint -> ADS time we must look at the weapon we are using.
If our weapon's Quickdraw ADS Time is greater than or equal to the weapon's Fast Hands Sprint Out Time:
Use Fast Hands
If our weapon's Quickdraw ADS Time is less than the weapon's Fast Hands Sprint Out Time:
Use Gung-Ho
How much faster is Gung-Ho in the second case?
Time Saved = Fast Hands Sprint Out Time - Quickdraw ADS Time
So you may find the time saved by using Gung-Ho in the second case is small enough that using Fast Hands will suffice, therefore not having to sacrifice a superior Red Perk.
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Post by volgon on Dec 14, 2015 13:16:00 GMT -5
NOTE: This is assuming Gung-Ho reduces Sprint Out Time to near 0 (zero). As far as I can tell it doesn't. When I've used it I still aim slower than I do with Fast Hands when ADSing from sprint (with Quickdraw + SMG) |
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Post by Blurred Wolf on Dec 14, 2015 13:28:54 GMT -5
The assumption was made based on Marvel's comment on the previous page. Forget what I said about Gung-Ho. Even though the sprint out animation is the same, you can actually shoot almost instantly after sprinting. And the time until you can shoot while sprinting is also lower than the sprint out time. So until there are exact numbers on what Gung-Ho actually does it's anecdotal. |
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Post by volgon on Dec 14, 2015 13:54:37 GMT -5
The assumption was made based on Marvel's comment on the previous page. Forget what I said about Gung-Ho. Even though the sprint out animation is the same, you can actually shoot almost instantly after sprinting. And the time until you can shoot while sprinting is also lower than the sprint out time. So until there are exact numbers on what Gung-Ho actually does it's anecdotal. I should clarify: I don't know if the sprint out time is reduced to near zero, but what I do know is that the ADS time from sprint seems to be the base ADS time on your weapon. Meaning, when I used Quickdraw/SMG/Gung-Ho, it seemed like I ADS'd from sprint in ~.23 seconds (the base ADS time of the Vesper), which to me indicates that I was limited by the sprint out time and not the ADS time. Obviously this is completely anecdotal evidence, so I recommend you actually try out Gung-Ho vs Fast Hands in a game or bot game to see the speed for yourself. |
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Dec 14, 2015 19:39:41 GMT -5
Regardless of any stats, you can't look anymore badass than mowing enemies down with the scythe or brecci while sprinting.
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Post by Marvel4 on Dec 14, 2015 21:42:05 GMT -5
I should clarify: I don't know if the sprint out time is reduced to near zero, but what I do know is that the ADS time from sprint seems to be the base ADS time on your weapon. Meaning, when I used Quickdraw/SMG/Gung-Ho, it seemed like I ADS'd from sprint in ~.23 seconds (the base ADS time of the Vesper), which to me indicates that I was limited by the sprint out time and not the ADS time. Obviously this is completely anecdotal evidence, so I recommend you actually try out Gung-Ho vs Fast Hands in a game or bot game to see the speed for yourself. There is no "ADS time from sprint", you just see both animations at the same time. The ADS time doesn't change. And like I said, the sprint out animation with Gung-Ho is the same, but you can shoot almost instantly. |
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Post by volgon on Dec 14, 2015 22:27:57 GMT -5
I should clarify: I don't know if the sprint out time is reduced to near zero, but what I do know is that the ADS time from sprint seems to be the base ADS time on your weapon. Meaning, when I used Quickdraw/SMG/Gung-Ho, it seemed like I ADS'd from sprint in ~.23 seconds (the base ADS time of the Vesper), which to me indicates that I was limited by the sprint out time and not the ADS time. Obviously this is completely anecdotal evidence, so I recommend you actually try out Gung-Ho vs Fast Hands in a game or bot game to see the speed for yourself. There is no "ADS time from sprint", you just see both animations at the same time. The ADS time doesn't change. And like I said, the sprint out animation with Gung-Ho is the same, but you can shoot almost instantly. Right, I know you aren't wrong about Gung Ho but I think there are just crossed signals at this point. Perhaps I misjudged exactly what people were asking. Correct me if I'm wrong but these should be the two answers for this thread: If you want the fastest transition from sprint to hip fire accuracy: Gung-Ho is the best (near instant transition) and Fast Hands is second (~50% faster). If you want the fastest transition from sprint to full ADS accuracy: running Fast Hands and Quickdraw simultaneously is the only thing that will speed up this transition. |
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Post by Marvel4 on Dec 14, 2015 22:38:33 GMT -5
No. Gung-Ho is better than Fast Hands if the ADS time is lower than the sprint out time with Fast Hands.
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Post by Blurred Wolf on Dec 15, 2015 0:35:51 GMT -5
No. Gung-Ho is better than Fast Hands if the ADS time is lower than the sprint out time with Fast Hands. So we can confirm that Gung-Ho is actually changing the weapon's Sprint Out Time? Or is it possible the near instant fire after sprinting is due to some other factor? |
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Post by Marvel4 on Dec 15, 2015 1:18:21 GMT -5
So we can confirm that Gung-Ho is actually changing the weapon's Sprint Out Time? It doesn't. The animation is the same when you don't shoot. |
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Post by Blurred Wolf on Dec 15, 2015 11:27:19 GMT -5
So we can confirm that Gung-Ho is actually changing the weapon's Sprint Out Time? It doesn't. The animation is the same when you don't shoot. Then how is Gung-Ho better than Fast Hands for Sprint -> ADS in some cases? |
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Post by Marvel4 on Dec 15, 2015 11:48:33 GMT -5
You can cancel the animation when shooting after sprinting.
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Post by Blurred Wolf on Dec 15, 2015 12:02:54 GMT -5
Does that mean you get the case where you start shooting before you actually have full ADS accuracy?
Like are you sprinting then holding fire and ADS at the same time?
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Slick
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Taking the piss
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Post by Slick on Dec 15, 2015 12:31:12 GMT -5
Gun-Ho is competing in the same perk slot as Tac Mask, Blast Supressor, Dead Silence, and Awareness. It doesn't exist to me. Fast Hand is much more reasonable to use as it is not completely crowded by must use perks, and provides a secondary useful function. It's not even a close race. I have not used Gun-Ho for more than 2 games, tops, when I just started and had no choice in the matter.
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Post by UrbaneVirtuoso on Dec 15, 2015 13:06:10 GMT -5
If Awareness is ever nerfed then I could see a virtue in other Tier 3 perks to BFF Dead Silence.
Then again, you could always go Reaper.
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bravo2zero
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I'm super excited guys
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Post by bravo2zero on Dec 15, 2015 15:15:01 GMT -5
I can cope, what with being an aerial fighter by courtesy of Bumper Jumper -- I know Quickdraw kicks right in whilst airborne. Have you tried the stick and move control urbane? I tried bumper jumper but it did not work out for me. But adding jumpshots to your arsenal is way to go, its saved me a bunch of times. |
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Dec 15, 2015 16:07:06 GMT -5
With sixth sense in the game, soundwhoring isn't as overpowered as people think. That overpowered piece is a permanent motion sensor stuck to your character. They both accomplish similar roles, plus, more people run dead silence than hard wired as countermeasures.
The point I'm making is the sound whoring perks aren't required. I've equipped gung ho on all my shotgun and SMG classes and they feel great right now.
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JustABitAgroed
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Post by JustABitAgroed on Dec 15, 2015 18:04:46 GMT -5
With sixth sense in the game, soundwhoring isn't as overpowered as people think. That overpowered piece is a permanent motion sensor stuck to your character. They both accomplish similar roles, plus, more people run dead silence than hard wired as countermeasures. The point I'm making is the sound whoring perks aren't required. I've equipped gung ho on all my shotgun and SMG classes and they feel great right now. I only found it useful for knowing when people were above me. If someone can get close enough to trigger it then chances are I was probably already dead. I personally don't find Awarenes to be all that necessary either though. |
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Post by UrbaneVirtuoso on Dec 16, 2015 1:21:16 GMT -5
Of all times Sixth Sense made a substantial difference, it was to find the odd corner camper. Pretty niche in my eyes.
But clearly, the two of you don't have apt headsets to embrace the sound monopoly. Awareness detects miles away.
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JustABitAgroed
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Post by JustABitAgroed on Dec 16, 2015 8:08:38 GMT -5
Of all times Sixth Sense made a substantial difference, it was to find the odd corner camper. Pretty niche in my eyes.
But clearly, the two of you don't have apt headsets to embrace the sound monopoly. Awareness detects miles away. No argument there. My headset is awful. Despite what I paid for it. |
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Dec 16, 2015 9:55:43 GMT -5
I use Apple earbuds plugged into the bottom of my PS4 controller and I still run Awareness on every class.
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Post by noyoucannot on Dec 16, 2015 16:26:07 GMT -5
Awareness on a good headset feels like cheating in modes where it isn't too chaotic. You can hear well enough to make it look like you're wall hacking. For example it's amazing in FFA, because you know for sure the footsteps are enemies. I normally run it in Kill Confirmed/TDM as well; awareness doesn't affect teammates so if you hear extremely loud footsteps you know for sure it's an enemy (without dead silence).
But in relation to the topic, it's hard to find a spot for Gung-Ho unless you are running a nutty shotgun rush class on Nuketown or something. Otherwise some combination of Dead Silence/Awareness/Tac Mask is ideal IMO
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Dec 16, 2015 20:27:29 GMT -5
I've got a decent headset and know how good awareness is, I'm just saying it isn't necessary.
On one hand, you have pub stomping lobbies. In those situations, it doesn't matter whether you have awareness or 1-point custom classes, the outcome will be the same.
On the other hand, you face against decent players. Most decent players use dead silence already, and/or run reaper. Soundwhoring just isn't consistent here. You get into the mindset where you rely too much on awareness and not enough on what's going on around you (remember heartbeat sensor?). You carelessly run around corners, right into the prone camper's or dead silence user's sights.
Of course, I'm an aggressive CQC player and avoid ARs and LMGs when possible. Gung ho and sixth sense award the aggressive CQC players more than the slower alternatives so I'm super biased here. Remember, you can still soundwhore without those perks, but that logic doesn't stand for gung ho or sixth sense.
See where I'm coming from?
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Post by TheHawkNY on Dec 17, 2015 10:53:12 GMT -5
You know how Bruce Banner's secret is that he's always angry? RageHulkSmash's secret to detecting enemies is that they're always there. I'm a really aggressive player, generally balls deep in the enemy spawn, but compared to him, I'm basically "is it in yet?"
I understand that Gung Ho is primarily a perk for bad players who have no idea an enemy is there to have an advantage. The majority of the killcams of my deaths I watch, the perks are Afterburners-Fast Hands-Gung Ho. That said, it can still be a really useful perk for good players. You don't need Awareness to know enemies are on B, but Gung Ho can really help you come through with the Hitmarkermaker and clear it, or clear out a whole spawn.
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Post by flatulentmonkeys on Dec 17, 2015 10:58:35 GMT -5
I disagree somewhat. I do agree that in bad pubs lobbies, it doesn't really matter what you do. But I don't "rely" on awareness. I use it as a tool. When I have it on it's not so that I can only get kills by hearing someone. I play my normal "game" regardless of what perks I'm using. But when using awareness, nobody sneaks up behind me, or flanks on another lane because I hear them. For example, playing power position white truck on Fringe. You can hear people walking from double windows through junkyard and vice versa. That way I know if someone is trying to pick me from dubs, or sneaking around to our spawn through junkyard. That can be super helpful for an AR player. But I don't focus entirely on the footsteps, obviously. I'm still peeking top barn, and watching the mid-street cover positions.
Now for you being an aggressive CQC player, you probably won't benefit as much from it. Although it still comes in handy for me when running a sub; especially in SnD.
And yes, you can still hear non-DS users when not running awareness. But you CAN hear DS users if you're running Awareness. So there's a lot to consider.
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Post by jakey on Dec 19, 2015 13:51:54 GMT -5
so ive seen a few people mention something about ads'ing out of sprint with gung ho lets you fire almost instantly, so as someone who ads's out of sprint in 99% of situations would gung ho actually be more beneficial to me than fast hands ? also would it benifit me to use both if i ads out of sprint almost exclusively ?
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Post by kirbyderby on Dec 19, 2015 17:14:14 GMT -5
so ive seen a few people mention something about ads'ing out of sprint with gung ho lets you fire almost instantly, so as someone who ads's out of sprint in 99% of situations would gung ho actually be more beneficial to me than fast hands ? also would it benifit me to use both if i ads out of sprint almost exclusively ? You can fire out of sprint instantly but only if you cancel the sprint first with ADS, jump, etc. It's faster than fast hands but you'll only have hipfire accuracy until you finish ADS. Basically in a sprint to ADS situation gungho lets you get a couple more hipfire bullets out compared to fast hands. It's superior in that situation but you need to decide if that benefit is worth giving up the faster swap speed of fast hands and taking up a very valuable perk 3 slot. |
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Post by hyprodimus on Dec 22, 2015 4:12:17 GMT -5
Does Fast Hands have any effect on snipers for quickscoping?
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