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Post by TheHawkNY on Jun 18, 2013 16:40:52 GMT -5
Isn't part of the point of the firecap to prevent modded controllers? With the firecap, it seems like they have been able to make the semi-autos good but balanced weapons, generally used by more skilled players. Without a firecap, wouldn't it make them harder to balance, and leave them open to exploitation?
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adw1983
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Post by adw1983 on Jun 18, 2013 17:05:21 GMT -5
Currently, you have:
God tier: FAL Good tier: SMR Meh tier: XPR Bleh tier: SVU
What I'd do:
FAL: (Reduce max damage and min damage) ADD SOME SWAY 650 RPM 45-30 damage low recoil 0.25 ADS time 50 meter 3 hit kill ranage
SMR (Do not change except a tiny ADS delay) Add SOME sway 550 RPM 55-45 damage high recoil 0.28 ADS time
SVU (Add slightly more recoil but decrease ADS time) 500 RPM 75 damage medium recoil (Head, neck) 0.32 ADS time
XPR 450 RPM 90 damage high recoil (Head, neck, chest) 0.37 ADS time
...
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Post by mw2baller on Jun 18, 2013 21:13:48 GMT -5
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FAL vs SMR
Jun 18, 2013 21:21:42 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by -3055- on Jun 18, 2013 21:21:42 GMT -5
Smr is good tier? I usually let opinions slide but no. You're wrong. At best it's acceptable.
And the SVU-AS is like the lmg of snipers. It should have 20 rounds and less recoil and 600 rpm. No different ads time. XPR is fine as is.
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Post by ElysMustache on Jun 19, 2013 10:58:38 GMT -5
Isn't part of the point of the firecap to prevent modded controllers? With the firecap, it seems like they have been able to make the semi-autos good but balanced weapons, generally used by more skilled players. Without a firecap, wouldn't it make them harder to balance, and leave them open to exploitation? The high firerate cap was a huge part of making the Mk 14 and RSASS so powerful in MW3 for people without modded controllers. Hell, I got accused of cheating with the USP in that game because it could be fired so quickly. The sound of the RSASS firing made all the shots blur together you could spam it so fast.
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 19, 2013 11:23:03 GMT -5
The FAL has a firerate cap of 600 RPM I believe. And now I know exactly how fast that is. I can consistently press the trigger at 8~10 times a second, but even maybe 7 times a second doesn't work consistently because firetimes can be that detrimental. I'm saying we need a higher firerate cap not because the guns don't kill quickly enough; in theory they're amazing. In-game, however, the firerate caps create extremely luck-based outcomes and events because in order to keep consistency I need to sacrifice a trigger finger anywhere close to the firecap. Is the FAL semi-auto cap that high? 600 rpm (10 bullets per sec) Just wondering. I know i can't bang out the buttons that fast. I have timed myself emptying a 25 round clip and it takes about 4.0 seconds, 6.3 bullets per second. But I'm not really even trying to aim there. If i attach the full-auto SF attachment, it takes 3.61 seconds to unload a clip, 6.9 bullets per second. So i tended to use SF on the FAL before. But since the patch a few months ago, i stopped using it.
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wings
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Post by wings on Jun 19, 2013 11:44:24 GMT -5
Isn't part of the point of the firecap to prevent modded controllers? With the firecap, it seems like they have been able to make the semi-autos good but balanced weapons, generally used by more skilled players. Without a firecap, wouldn't it make them harder to balance, and leave them open to exploitation? Supposedly. Amusing given that Scuff controllers are permitted. Hypocrisy at its finest.
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wings
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Post by wings on Jun 19, 2013 11:50:00 GMT -5
? The guns are fine. The SVU and XPR are great guns and definitely don't need a buff. Wait. You think the SVU is a good gun? 0.4s to ADS and only a 1HK to the head without a suppressor, and a 2HK anywhere on the body suppressed. I'd rather use the FAL and have the option of Quickdraw, Dexterity stacking with it and no loss of peripheral vision. Using Ghost would be easier on the FAL as I'd have to swap to a pistol to remain off the radar when using the SVU.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2013 13:33:07 GMT -5
Smr is good tier? I usually let opinions slide but no. You're wrong. At best it's acceptable. I dunno man. Sure it pales in comparaison to the FAL but it's still a good gun in its own right. It puts people down quick and has easy to control recoil.
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Post by ElysMustache on Jun 19, 2013 18:02:09 GMT -5
Is the FAL semi-auto cap that high? 600 rpm (10 bullets per sec) Just wondering. I know i can't bang out the buttons that fast. I have timed myself emptying a 25 round clip and it takes about 4.0 seconds, 6.3 bullets per second. But I'm not really even trying to aim there. If i attach the full-auto SF attachment, it takes 3.61 seconds to unload a clip, 6.9 bullets per second. Average-fire-rate-obtainable matters less than peak-fire-rate-obtainable. The default fire rate cap on the MW3 Mk 14 could be reached - rapid fire was a very popular attachment for that gun, and it had a higher cap than anything in BO2. I would hazard a guess that the time between two trigger pulls could be as low as 0.05 or 0.06 seconds. You just can't sustain that rate. Try it with a stopwatch sometime - see how small of a time you can get it to read. It will depend largely on the quality of the button.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Jun 26, 2013 5:12:54 GMT -5
Average-fire-rate-obtainable matters less than peak-fire-rate-obtainable. The default fire rate cap on the MW3 Mk 14 could be reached - rapid fire was a very popular attachment for that gun, and it had a higher cap than anything in BO2. I would hazard a guess that the time between two trigger pulls could be as low as 0.05 or 0.06 seconds. You just can't sustain that rate. Try it with a stopwatch sometime - see how small of a time you can get it to read. It will depend largely on the quality of the button. As someone who whored the fu ck out of the Mk14 in MW3 (my most used weapon in that game actually), I think you've hit the nail on the head. Semis aren't mag dump guns. Having fast, accurate, consistent double and triple taps is what makes a good Mk14 (FAL, etc). That's why everyone with a brain ran RF on the MK14. That's one of the reasons the SMR sucks; half the time your double tap only makes one shot. The RoF cap is insultingly low. The FAL's should be higher too, for that matter.
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Post by -3055- on Jun 26, 2013 23:44:50 GMT -5
Average-fire-rate-obtainable matters less than peak-fire-rate-obtainable. The default fire rate cap on the MW3 Mk 14 could be reached - rapid fire was a very popular attachment for that gun, and it had a higher cap than anything in BO2. I would hazard a guess that the time between two trigger pulls could be as low as 0.05 or 0.06 seconds. You just can't sustain that rate. Try it with a stopwatch sometime - see how small of a time you can get it to read. It will depend largely on the quality of the button. As someone who whored the fu ck out of the Mk14 in MW3 (my most used weapon in that game actually), I think you've hit the nail on the head. Semis aren't mag dump guns. Having fast, accurate, consistent double and triple taps is what makes a good Mk14 (FAL, etc). That's why everyone with a brain ran RF on the MK14. That's one of the reasons the SMR sucks; half the time your double tap only makes one shot. The RoF cap is insultingly low. The FAL's should be higher too, for that matter. pretty much. rapid fire with focus proficiency was almost unbeatable at any range. The only thing I remember dying to (if i did ever die with it) was the rapid fire pp90m1. Bothered me when I hit the firerate cap on that mk14 though.
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pwn3d
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Post by pwn3d on Jul 3, 2013 13:19:00 GMT -5
FAL got banned in league <3, they agreed it is OP.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2013 13:29:21 GMT -5
FAL got banned in league <3, they agreed it is OP. More like they pandered to the crybaby "pro" players. There's nothing wrong with the FAL, they should've banned their pussified modded SCUF/trigger stop controllers instead.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Jul 3, 2013 19:14:05 GMT -5
They banned the FAL in League? LOL, like I needed another reason to never load up League Play again.
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pwn3d
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Post by pwn3d on Jul 4, 2013 0:32:59 GMT -5
Only in Champions League, in TDM League you can still use anything.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Jul 4, 2013 14:25:26 GMT -5
Wow, I was confused and thought League was like MLG for a second.. and was confused.
But thats actually... Treyarchs...
Wow.
Absolute. Fucking. Idiots.
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Post by -3055- on Jul 4, 2013 20:47:15 GMT -5
Almost as good as "sorry, complains scare us. Please love us and buy all of our camos. We'll do whatever you want"
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Post by UrbaneVirtuoso on Jul 4, 2013 21:28:23 GMT -5
Wonder if the KAP-40 got banned too... it was this MLG.
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pwn3d
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Post by pwn3d on Jul 5, 2013 16:21:31 GMT -5
Kap akimbo got banned, but only akimbo.
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adw1983
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Post by adw1983 on Jul 6, 2013 6:19:24 GMT -5
Smr is good tier? I usually let opinions slide but no. You're wrong. At best it's acceptable. And the SVU-AS is like the lmg of snipers. It should have 20 rounds and less recoil and 600 rpm. No different ads time. XPR is fine as is. SVU-AS should have a lower ADS time to bridge the gap between ARs and snipers. Ideal table: FAL - 45-29 damage / 650 RPM / 0.25 ADS / Low recoil SMR - 55-40 damage / 550 RPM / 0.28 ADS / Med recoil SVU - 75/65 damage / 500 RPM / 0.33 ADS / Med recoil / 1.7 - 1.5 - 1.0 - 1.0 - 1.0 XPR - 95/75 damage / 450 RPM / 0.37 ADS / High recoil / 1.7 - 1.5 - 1.5 - 1.1 - 1.0 The current table is just plain boring and uninspired, with SVU and XPR both at 0.40 ADS. The SVU with more recoil would make the bridge sketched out above -- much like in MW2 where snipers had quickdraw, and you had a climb from FAL -> M21 EBR -> WA2000 -> Barret Higher recoil would also balance the SVU more for hardcore, bridging the gap between SVU and SMR. Thinking about it, the FAL should have 29 minimum damage too, giving the SMR a use.
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adw1983
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Post by adw1983 on Jul 6, 2013 6:26:04 GMT -5
thats hilarious considering theyre fully capable of actually changing the weapon's stats. It's just completely absurd, really. Just a confirmation that they really, REALLY don't know what the heck they are doing when they fool around with the weapon statistics, as already proved when they slapped the KAP.40's willing butt with a pink velvet whip and called it punishment. 30-17 damage god gosh darn golly gee whizit! As for the B23R, a modified M1911, it should just have been 750 RPM as it's a modified .45 gun, which historically have low rates of fire because of the recoil. (UMP.45, for example)
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Post by ElysMustache on Jul 6, 2013 11:54:15 GMT -5
As for the B23R, a modified M1911, it should just have been 750 RPM as it's a modified .45 gun, which historically have low rates of fire because of the recoil. (UMP.45, for example) It is not a modified 1911. It is a modified Beretta 92F, military designation M9. The M9 is a 9mm pistol. As for the supposed recoil of a .45, the 1911 is known for its small amount of muzzle flip due to the low axis of the barrel above the grip. The 1911 actually fires fairly softly, partially due to the low chamber pressures (about 20k CUP compared to 40k CUP for more modern pistol calibers). This can be affected by the weight of the bullet (230 grains is the standard combat round) and the amount of powder in the cartridge. Pistol competitors do often seek a round with less kick - see the historical popularity of the .38 Super as an example. But these guys are dumping entire magazines into multiple targets in less than three seconds. The mechanical rate of fire of the gun is not limited by the recoil - the practical ability to get the sights back on target is. Go watch an IPSC competition or look up a guy on YouTube named Todd Jarrett to see what is possible.
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Post by bobo on Jul 6, 2013 15:39:49 GMT -5
I hate bumping the firecap, but the SMR just seems super powerful and fairly easy to control to me. Don't like the irons, but the simple red dot works great, or ACOG for certain occasions. The SMR is still my highest k/d weapon after lots of playing. But my highest k/d guns are kind of a strange grouping I guess (SMR, FAL, Skorpion, MK48, Peacekeeper for 1-5).
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adw1983
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Post by adw1983 on Jul 6, 2013 16:17:21 GMT -5
As for the B23R, a modified M1911, it should just have been 750 RPM as it's a modified .45 gun, which historically have low rates of fire because of the recoil. (UMP.45, for example) It is not a modified 1911. It is a modified Beretta 92F, military designation M9. Indeed. My random source was wrong. answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130326141533AAPM0tjDerp. As for recoil, Todd Jarrett clearly manually reduces the recoil -- like players can do with high recoil weapons ingame. I fired the M14 in CoD4 at 600 RPM without problems because I pull the sight down, often resulting in the centerspeed returning the sight down into the ground after killing multiple targets, forcing me to pull the sight up after firing a series of 10-15 rounds -- which is realistic as it reminds me of firing the (A)G3 fully automatic in the norwegian army: You have to push your entire torso forward to defeat the recoil, which causes your aim to fall down below target when you pause, forcing you to pull your sight up. As for rate of fire, the B23R being a 9mm makes it a potential 1200 RPM weapon, which makes me suggest 1200 RPM in-burst at 30 damage: Two bursts to kill but with so high rate of fire that it still competes with semi-auto pistols and is just slightly nerfed.
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Post by -3055- on Jul 6, 2013 18:46:31 GMT -5
I hate bumping the firecap, but the SMR just seems super powerful and fairly easy to control to me. Don't like the irons, but the simple red dot works great, or ACOG for certain occasions. The SMR is still my highest k/d weapon after lots of playing. But my highest k/d guns are kind of a strange grouping I guess (SMR, FAL, Skorpion, MK48, Peacekeeper for 1-5). That's the thing, though. Up until the FAL's two hit range, the FAL is superior in literally every aspect. After it drops, SMR has a 2hk vs the FAL's 3hk. Now, that seems fair, but what with the FAL's higher firerate and MUCH lower recoil, I'd have to say they're cut even. Then when the SMR dips to a 3hk... then, again, the FAL has the undoubted upper hand. Best thing to do is to switch the recoils of the two while giving the FAL a 10% decrease in CS. So a little more recoil than the current SMR. And raise both of their firecaps by 10%.
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Usagi
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Post by Usagi on Jul 6, 2013 21:23:01 GMT -5
Uh, I'm pretty sure the B23R is a 1911, it looks nothing like a Beretta. And this will most likely be the only time I will ever agree with Asasa, but if Treyarch really banned a gun in League Play, that's fucking hilarious. The hypocrisy is strong in them.
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Post by Marvel4 on Jul 6, 2013 21:29:52 GMT -5
It's a fictional weapon based on the Beretta 93R.
B23R = Beretta 23R
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pwn3d
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Post by pwn3d on Jul 7, 2013 4:45:50 GMT -5
I'm sure it's based on the Beretta M93R or M93 Raffica. B23R is pretty much the same as the M93R from MW2, beeing a 3burst pistol, but less op ;-).
Actually only a few guns in BO2 are fictional: Edit: DSR-50 actually exists, XPR (don't know a similar gun), PDW (obviously inspired by P90), SMR (a lot ofsimilarity with some badass M14 mods, google 'M14 juggernaut rogue'), Type 25 (slightly modernized type95), QBB (like type95 in lmg variant), M8A1 (is very likely an XM-8, just the 4 round burst is fictional), chicom (similar looking chinese smg's exist), LSAT (exists, just blue ammo and counter are fictional), Executioner (Edit: seems to be very likely to a 'taurus judge').
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Post by -3055- on Jul 7, 2013 8:21:33 GMT -5
I thought a prototype version of the kap-40 existed? From the vector family? And I know executioner exists. "Raging judge" from the taurus family I believe. And they CAN use shotgun shells, it's just special shotguns shells intended for just that revolver.
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