|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 1, 2015 16:25:55 GMT -5
The above is what baffles me a good bit (player behavior) when the heavy ammo drops. If you are down a flag,....heavy ammo drop time is typically THE best time in the game to fix the cap deficit. Most other teams of typical players will abandon the middle flag and rush to get the heavy. The flag is wide open now. Take it! Why not? Once all the heavy weapon trading takes place, there will probably be 15 to 20 deaths occurring. And probably pretty close... 11 to 9, 10 to 10, 12 to 8, etc... This is natural. Kills (and deaths) come faster when heavy ammo drops. Why not situate your team so that your EFFECTIVE points per kill are higher? People think kills, instead of thinking effective "Points per Kill"
the above is mind boggling, as I see it every game. Heavy comes in, players will actually run off the flag and leave it, to go get ammo. Why? Because of this rule of thumb, that the team benefits if everyone can load up on heavy ammo.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 1, 2015 16:29:01 GMT -5
You've kinda twisted things up here a little bit. At no point did I say "don't die, ever." I laid out two methods for attacking 3 enemies at B flag on Shores in a complete hypothetical, where one way you go 3-0 and the other you go 3-1. There's no circumstance in that example where going 3-1 is better than going 3-0. None. EDIT: And I see that you responded while I was typing this. I think we're on the same page here, mostly. Sorry, no disrespect intended if I missed your points. I'm just typing these while at work, doing five other things. I might have missed the nuances of what you are saying.
|
|
hebbnh
True Bro
Cacodemon expert
Posts: 2,688
|
Post by hebbnh on Jul 1, 2015 16:34:46 GMT -5
I think this discussion has led me to one conclusion: we need to play more PvP together!
|
|
mannon
True Bro
wordy bastard PSN:mannonc Steam:mannonc XB:BADmannon
Posts: 15,371
|
Post by mannon on Jul 1, 2015 16:44:21 GMT -5
I've found radiant skin goes gloriously well with being massively aggressive. You have options. Grenades for days, 1HK melee, armor, it's really kinda great. As long as I have the right cover to work with I won't think twice about engaging 3v1 if I've just popped my radiance. Slice the pie so only 1 or 2 can shoot back at you at a time and let radiance soak up half your damage. You can literally go toe to toe with 2 players that way and win. Use those grenades and cover and it's no problem, then if you managed to keep your health or got it back from Red Death just rush the third, if not toss grenades at him. You really only have to worry about getting supered, flanked, shotgun rushed, or eating a rocket.
Personally, playing solo, I find triple caps happen randomly all the time. Most players on both teams tend to congregate in the middle of the map and leave both spawns fairly sparsely populated. Sooner or later somebody spawns solo on the other side and gets an easy cap, if they happened to have the other two points at the time they triple. *shrug* As for going for the triple... there's actually nothing wrong with going for a triple in and of it-self. Spawns aren't controlled by the CP's, but by player positions and maybe kills/deaths. If your team is holding down your spawn there's nothing wrong with one player trying for the triple if they can get there. (And in pubs you can usually get there since nearly everybody fights over B.) You are relying on your teammates to hold the spawn though, so there's that... *shrug*
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 1, 2015 17:09:54 GMT -5
Your experiences pretty closely follow mine Mannon
|
|
hebbnh
True Bro
Cacodemon expert
Posts: 2,688
|
Post by hebbnh on Jul 1, 2015 17:28:54 GMT -5
Huh. Maybe it's just a solo/randoms/non-partied thing. I rarely play control solo and when I do I usually try to get to the "good" flag and anchor so the team spawns there. Maybe that's part of it too. I'll have to pay attention to that if I do jump in solo again sometime.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 1, 2015 22:35:57 GMT -5
Tonight was a tale of contrasts.
1. Tried the firebolt grenade for six games, plus radiant skin combo. Fail. Went 2-4, averaged 9 kills a game and KD was 0.75. I think I had 3 grenade kills all six games. Probably all on me, but my play style didn't fit with it. 3 of these games were in a party. This just didn't work.
2. Later grouped up with Heb and Wine, 14 games in all using the double fusion/ revive combo.!Averaged 18 kills a game, 1.28 KD and went 11-3. I averaged at least 6 to 7 grenade kills a game.Heb can vouch for this.
Just my opinion, ...but the double fusion combo is immensely better than firebolt. At least in IB. Easy call. I also used it with Voidfang Vestament chest piece, that gives two grenades after every spawn. It's like free kills.
I can't explain why the above works, but it does for me, I would say the above is slightly better matched up with tighter maps that have rooms and corridors, than say open maps like the Rust map on Earth.
|
|
qupie
True Bro
Posts: 12,400
|
Post by qupie on Jul 2, 2015 5:51:07 GMT -5
Agreed that is is a play style thing. Fusion is surely not better, it is different.
You cannot kill an opponent out right with firebolt. It is meant to kill that guy who runs away after you hit him with your primary. It is not strange you didn't do good with them if you are used to fusions, but that surely doesn't make them bad! It needs quite some getting used to (that's the reason I also use bolt grenades in PvE nowadays) but they are imensly powerfull, especially if you coordinate with your teammates.
As for self res, I still imensly prefer radiant skin. The only advantage self res CAN give you is position imho. If you simply respawn and run for 7 seconds you can be in the same place with radiant skin. The position can also greatly screw you over with self res though, especially if the other team is not completely bad.
btw did you try the burn firebolts or the double? Because double firebolts are not THAT great imho. They only do ~85 damage.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 2, 2015 6:00:15 GMT -5
edit....i hope my point was clear in that. I didn't say firebolts were bad, they just didn't work FOR ME. My play style was horribly equipped to work them. And it's almost impossible to change up one's play style on a short term basis.
Regarding Radiant Skin
i could see Radiant Skin working. It's powerful. A few times i popped my super in 1 v 2 situations....it worked. I could see my warlock getting the benefits. One time i couldn't believe how much damage i took and was still alive. The problem for it was twofold......
1) it takes 1 to 2 seconds to turn it on. So it's something that i needed to flip on a fair distance away, so i had at best ten seconds to use it. 2) Due to number one, there were a fair number of times (1/2? 2/3?) that after popping the super, getting to the action, ...most of the action was gone or killed by teammates. That was frustrating. In those situations, i have the super up, am on the flag or contested area....and had nothing to do with five seconds of super left. Now what? It just runs out. With self revive? I can safely say that every time i turn it on, it will be used. Might not always work...but it will be put to proper use.
I could see where Radiant Skin would be incredibly useful in a tight 3v3 ToO game, especially one that came down to 1v1 or 1v2 or such. You know an enemy is nearby or in another room. You pop it and then go attack, knowing you have 15 to 18 seconds to get them. That would be powerful. And more effective than self revive. In a 1v1 situation, self revive wouldn't fool anyone. That last opponent kills you, he isn't going to be running off. The game is over. He'll stick around and make sure you are dead. That almost never happens in IB...which is why self revive works so well.
edit
I think i did the double firebolts. Opting for the 2 grenade perk.
|
|
qupie
True Bro
Posts: 12,400
|
Post by qupie on Jul 2, 2015 6:16:28 GMT -5
Don't completely agree with the ToO part, self res can be very powerfull there as well, but only if you go from 1 vs 3 to 2 vs 3 due to self revive.
The hard part is indeed when to activate you super, just like the hunter supers. While everybody says hunter supers are OP, I am often still struggling when to activate them! FoH or Nova bomb is just a kill switch.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 2, 2015 6:22:24 GMT -5
The above all said...(and i don't mean this in a derogatory way to demean anyone else's good advice in this thread)
..... if i was offering up advice, after trying both of these ways............ i would tell people to use Self-Revive and 2x Fusion for their choices. IMHO, this is more deadly attacking combination and will increase your kill-count, as well as maintain a better KD. Even from a KD perspective, it almost forces your KD to have be at or above 1.0. It's hard to go negative. Start to die? Hit 'em with a fusion. They die too. You are a post mortem killing machine. And in a game like control, that's important when you are clearing people off a flag. A 1v1 trade off is good if you are ahead. You now just forced them to have to run 10-14 seconds back to the flag (and if you have self revive, you don't need to) You have a flag, the point-breeze is at your back. This is a win/win.
And coupled with the VoidFang armor, it makes you a deadly 'room' area denier after you die like in the above situation. You clear a room, they start to run back...you start to run back....you now have two more fusion grenades waiting to use. They probably don't have any. Essentially, VoidFang's insta-grenades is now your 'super', that works the entire game, not just 2 or 3 times.
Another point. I might be wrong here, but the tossing animation with fusions is far faster than the ADSing on the gun animations when people are running around. I face off against someone in a corridor, my grenade is out of my hand ....before they get their second shot off with the thorn or whatever. And my tossing range is further than a shotgun. Peek around a corner, toss, back away. Fusions almost always stick to people. Their 'stickiness' range is OP. 2 to 3' room for error? You can see them sticking even when you are off by a few feet. So in regards to clearing a B flag? A blind man could hit opponents in those situations, where opponents are stationary trying to cap. Jump high, come in at a hard angle, opponents never have a chance.
Maybe the above is a bit of dumb tactics and only working on 'bad' players....but then imho, that's what IB is. IB isn't some MLG'esque intense gaming environment. Most players are there to do bounties. Most players are playing for kills & KD, not to win, Shitty players, is the norm. Maybe ToO is different, sounds like it would be, but this is about IB.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 2, 2015 6:28:48 GMT -5
Don't completely agree with the ToO part, self res can be very powerfull there as well, but only if you go from 1 vs 3 to 2 vs 3 due to self revive. The hard part is indeed when to activate you super, just like the hunter supers. While everybody says hunter supers are OP, I am often still struggling when to activate them! FoH or Nova bomb is just a kill switch. Well, i haven't played ToO so can't offer up anything there. I was just offering up what seemed to be a benefit, that might work in ToO.
|
|
qupie
True Bro
Posts: 12,400
|
Post by qupie on Jul 2, 2015 7:07:58 GMT -5
You must be a way better sticky grenade thrower than me I guess. I hit like 10% at most. Always used frags in COD.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 2, 2015 7:14:05 GMT -5
Don't feel bad, I only had like 3 firebolt kills in like six games yesterday :-(
But I doubt I throw better than anyone. I'm mediocre at IB. I think I just use the double fusions as almost a primary weapon. I find them cheap & OP, so I'm all about that in Destiny. I also pretty much just exclusively run with my shotgun and grenades while moving around the map....so I have naturally evolved into using Fusions a lot as a way to save on grenade ammo too. Win/win. Pretty much, the only time I pull out my primary weapon (Red Death) is if we are on a two cap map, where we dont' want to flip....and I am posting up. My kill count (kills per game) tends to go waaaay down during those games, as I often feel a need to sit back, to counterweight dumb teammates trying to flip the spawns.
But I will say this thread has been very useful. While the firebolt thing didn't work out, it should be said that the only reason I even use the fusion grenades now is because of a past thread like this one. Where one of the heb's convinced me to try them, after I had been using solar grenades in control games. But even yesterday, someone's post about the VoidFang Vestaments was a great reminder to me. I was quite stupid. I had completely forgotten that I could use SunSinger & VoidFang. Duh. If I used VoidFang, it was only with VoidWalker subclass. I guess I felt like I had to match it up with the Axion bolt things. Obviously, you don't. SunSinger double grenades & VoidFang = great class in IB.
anyways, last night was fun. At one point Heb, Wine and I had won like 8 of 9 games, going against different lobbies. Then Heb's brother joined and we lost on a freak finish. WTF? Go figure that out. But it was a good night, pretty manageable and I didn't blow my stack even once, which is good for Destiny's PvP. Unfortunately, I am still not quite Level 3 yet on my first character. So freaking slow. I'm at level 2 on my first character still, with 1,934 pts. Still 466 from Lv 3. :-(
Today? Thursday (with two pieces of equipment and buff)
Win = 75, Loss = 60, Bounties = 150.
Ten games (and four bounties done) should net around 1,270pts.
|
|
qupie
True Bro
Posts: 12,400
|
Post by qupie on Jul 2, 2015 7:51:19 GMT -5
I can see how you like fusions combined with shotgun only. That is actually a really good combo and firebolts won't do anything usefull for you in that situation.
I rarely play shotgun only nowadays, only switch to it in CQ situations.
Fusions is like the only thing which can save you when meeting somebody at mid range with your shotgun equipped. So now I can completely see where you were coming from.
You should maybe give blink voidwalker a try sometimes with shotguns though.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 2, 2015 7:57:32 GMT -5
Personally, playing solo, I find triple caps happen randomly all the time. Most players on both teams tend to congregate in the middle of the map and leave both spawns fairly sparsely populated. Sooner or later somebody spawns solo on the other side and gets an easy cap, if they happened to have the other two points at the time they triple. *shrug* As for going for the triple... I copied this, because I saw it a few times like you said. And even with the first game Heb joined with us last night. We lost due to a late game triple cap on us. It was that horrible unbalanced Mars map, where you avoid the A flag like the plague. We were winning the entire game. Lead consistently staying between 1,000 to 2,500 pts, both sides kind of evenly matched and trading kills (we were playing a full party - ie clan tags on all) With our lead at 17,800 to 16,400 (est)....we lost B. No big deal, we go to retake it but then the spawns got wonky. One of their guys sitting in our respawn, in the back. Boom. We started spawning A. We don't cap it. They cap C. We are tripled. In about a minute or less,.... the score went from us being up 1,400, to being behind 500. 2k swing in 40 seconds. We ended up losing.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 2, 2015 8:00:01 GMT -5
I can see how you like fusions combined with shotgun only. That is actually a really good combo and firebolts won't do anything usefull for you in that situation. I rarely play shotgun only nowadays, only switch to it in CQ situations. Fusions is like the only thing which can save you when meeting somebody at mid range with your shotgun equipped. So now I can completely see where you were coming from. You should maybe give blink voidwalker a try sometimes with shotguns though. I suck at Blink. Dabbled with it, but I don't know how to use it effectively.
|
|
mannon
True Bro
wordy bastard PSN:mannonc Steam:mannonc XB:BADmannon
Posts: 15,371
|
Post by mannon on Jul 2, 2015 8:15:30 GMT -5
Really at closer ranges stickies are far easier to stick than aiming your guns. I can see how that would pair well with shotgun, but firebolt less so. Both fusion and shotgun are normally 1HK so using one saves you the other and fusions help supplement your range if people shy from the shotgun. You also have fewer issues of people taking a hit and running away with shotgun. If you don't get the 1HK you melee combo. Using a firebolt as an opener is also potentially wasteful if you're already going to 1HK them anyway. At best it lets you have some extra 1HK range, but if you're already using a shotgun with more or less maxed out range I don't know if attacking guardians with low health really extends that range terribly much, and it still exposes you to risk and doesn't save the ammo. With a fusion it's fire and forget.
I will definitely have to try maxing out the DoT on firebolts when I'm using my Red Death or whatever, though. That sounds interesting for longer ranges.
|
|
mannon
True Bro
wordy bastard PSN:mannonc Steam:mannonc XB:BADmannon
Posts: 15,371
|
Post by mannon on Jul 2, 2015 8:23:28 GMT -5
Blink is the bane of my existance. I'm trying to get better at it, because I know it's useful. But most of the time I'm simply unable to land on top of objects or blinking into walls, ceilings, and ledges and getting myself disoriented. It tends to hurt me more often than help me... but I'm working on it... sometimes.
|
|
hebbnh
True Bro
Cacodemon expert
Posts: 2,688
|
Post by hebbnh on Jul 2, 2015 8:32:40 GMT -5
IW, We would have won anyway even against the triple cap if we hadn't gotten screwed by that bullshit Fist of Havoc at our heavy ammo. 3 or 4 guys dumping MGs on 1 Titan, and he gets a super off without even losing his shield. Ridiculous. Our whole team knew what was coming and was ready for him, and he tanks enough damage to kill a radiant skin warlock 2 times over. Such BS.
On fusion vs firebolt, I don't think 6 games or however many games you used them is enough to make a decision. Extremely small sample size on something that requires a big change to your thought process and tactics. If you used double firebolts instead of touch of flame + viking funeral, then I can see why it didn't go well. The burn damage is the major draw there. Without burn damage you might as well run double fusions because firebolts just aren't that effective on their own. If you're shotgun rushing I can see where fusions would be more helpful too against someone who's outside of shotgun range. You didn't mention that before. I'd argue that if you're running shotgun primarily you should probably be using a blink voidwalker or bladedancer instead though. It'll take some time to get used to it, but you'll absolutely be more effective. Almost unhittable at times. Some of the situations you can blink out of are crazy. Rocket dodging, 1 vs 3 without taking a shot, stuff like that. I'm not even good at it yet but I'll have crazy moments like that now and then. Sunsinger is great but it's better as a supporting/sniping class, not a rushing one IMHO.
On self-res, I know it can be effective, I just think radiant skin can be equally effective and also keep you out of harm's way more. If it's working well for you though just keep at it. I just see so many situations where self-res is completely wasted. Last night, for example, a guy went for C flag on Blind Watch. I go over, take him out. He uses self-res, I drop Fist of Havoc on him. Complete waste of his super. If he supered before I killed him the first time, there's no way I win that fight 1 on 1 unless I use my super, but I probably can't get close enough to do that as he can jump away and spam nades at me. Another example, different game, on Rusted Lands. I get shot by somebody so I retreat around a corner and pull my sniper out, scoping that corner hoping I baited the guy to chase. Sure enough, here he comes. Boom, headshot. Then he uses self-res only to get promptly headshotted right back down again. Just stupid. If he supered earlier, he could have 'naded me around the corner and killed me with a burn firebolt without ever opening himself up to damage. Instead he dies twice and wastes his super. That stuff happens all the time.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 2, 2015 8:56:11 GMT -5
Well, in regards to the Hunter stuff...at least for me, everything I am discussing is with the Warlock at the moement, as that's what I am stuck on until Level 3. Tonight or tomorrow....I will be playing the Hunter and Titan, getting them to level 3. Hopefully getting the leveling boost from my Warlock's Lv 3 gain. I'll give it a go with those characters.
I'll also give it a go again with the burn damage. Try it. I'm just thinking it's not going to work well, as I'm getting 4 to 8 fusion kills a game now from direct encounters with people, popping them into people's faces. The firebolt won't work that way. It will take a different style of play from me, of which I am probably not capable of learning right away.
I hear you on the Self Res thing. Not disagreeing with anything you say. What I just go back & forth on is what you said, versus the issue of wasting the Radiant Skin super use. Point here is ...isn't there 'Wasting' going on with both uses? Like I mentioned in my example, there was lot of waste going on with my Super use, while using Radiant Skin. I saw action, pop my super and then rushed to the action. Unfortunately, more often than not the enemies have left, are killed, or my additional skin/grenades were not needed. I kick myself, wishing I hadn't burned it right there. With Self Res...win or lose with it....I know every time I pop that super, it will be used for a purpose. 100% of the time. Why? The guy who killed me is right there....I CAN SEE HIM (and dictate when I come back, waiting for him to turn away). Whether or not it works, is the unanswered question. That's the question, what is better? There's waste on both sides there.
Here's a question. The new exotic chest for Warlocks, 'Purifier Robe'. Does this solve this problem? Like for me, if I am using double grenades and self res. Would the purifier robe allow me to have my cake and eat it too? I pop the super/self-res, and now all my nearby opponents are dazed, allowing me to clean out the area with double grenades and a shotgun? The only negative here is that I would lose the Voidfang Vestament's 'Spawn with Grenades' perk. I would now have to be a little bit more cautious with grenade useage, as well as not always have them available.
|
|
hebbnh
True Bro
Cacodemon expert
Posts: 2,688
|
Post by hebbnh on Jul 2, 2015 9:17:23 GMT -5
Yeah, you run the risk of wasting it either way I guess, but to me wasting it and not dying at all is better than wasting it and dying twice. Lots of variables there though. Like you said, if you make sure to use self-res smartly or when enemies don't expect it then it can work really well. Most people don't do that, they just blindly self-res cuz they want revenge on whoever just killed them, and pop it without thinking it through or any kind of a plan.
The self-res guy on Blind Watch in my above example had the Purifier Robes on. Didn't help him much LOL. Again, used smartly it could work pretty well. Personally I wouldn't want to give up the 'nade on spawn or extra armor from the Ram. Those bonuses are there all game long. The Purifier bonus is extremely situational and would only help you 2 or 3 times a game at most. Not worth the tradeoff IMO.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 2, 2015 9:29:39 GMT -5
Yeah, you run the risk of wasting it either way I guess, but to me wasting it and not dying at all is better than wasting it and dying twice. Lots of variables there though. Like you said, if you make sure to use self-res smartly or when enemies don't expect it then it can work really well. Most people don't do that, they just blindly self-res cuz they want revenge on whoever just killed them, and pop it without thinking it through or any kind of a plan. That's a good point. I guess people forget that. Not sure why. Self-Res is not automatic. You control it. You can dictate the 'when', and watching who killed you is easy. You are dead. You have nothing else to do....just wait until they turn away. If they don't, don't use it. I guess this is the deal Self Res - It's never wasted. 100% useful*. The question is whether or not you are effective in getting the revenge kill(s), Odds % Radiant Skin - It's a passive super, so there is a good chance it won't be needed. Odds %. But, if you are hit, it will be 100% useful* and very powerful. *useful - getting to use the benefits of the perk. Self Res - getting a 2nd shot at the guy who killed you. Radiant Skin - Getting to use your higher armor imho, both are equal. It just comes down to one's playstyle and how effective you are at making either one work for your style. Good point. But what does it exactly do? (I don't have this piece yet). Does it give like a flash grenade effect? How big the radius?
|
|
hebbnh
True Bro
Cacodemon expert
Posts: 2,688
|
Post by hebbnh on Jul 2, 2015 9:39:01 GMT -5
It's basically the same effect as a flashbang or Saint-14 blindy bubble where you can't really see what's going on for a few seconds. Not sure what the radius is exactly, I'd guess 3 to 5 meters maybe, and there are probably dimishing effects the farther someone is from the center.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 2, 2015 10:03:21 GMT -5
It's basically the same effect as a flashbang or Saint-14 blindy bubble where you can't really see what's going on for a few seconds. Not sure what the radius is exactly, I'd guess 3 to 5 meters maybe, and there are probably dimishing effects the farther someone is from the center. that seems kind of good.
|
|
qupie
True Bro
Posts: 12,400
|
Post by qupie on Jul 2, 2015 10:12:10 GMT -5
It is not as good as I thought it would be. I think voidfang or heart of praxic fire are still better. (self res with full grenades or increased grenade/melee refill) And ofc ram.
edit: why? because the blinding effect is not that effective, unless you are very very close. And you can's change possition anyway during res animation, so they can still shotgun you if they have some memory.
The thing to not forget in free respawn game modes though, is that even if you self revive, it is not as if your opponent did not get the kill.
|
|
hebbnh
True Bro
Cacodemon expert
Posts: 2,688
|
Post by hebbnh on Jul 2, 2015 10:13:07 GMT -5
Other perks on Purifier Robes are increased grenade charge from melee hits and increased melee charge from grenade hits, and the roll is DIS/STR split, so there's some nice cooldown reduction synergy working there. I still don't think it's worth using over Voidfang or the Ram though. Way too situational for me.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 2, 2015 10:19:57 GMT -5
It is not as good as I thought it would be. I think voidfang or heart of praxic fire are still better. (self res with full grenades or increased grenade/melee refill) And ofc ram. edit: why? because the blinding effect is not that effective, unless you are very very close. And you can's change possition anyway during res animation, so they can still shotgun you if they have some memory. The thing to not forget in free respawn game modes though, is that even if you self revive, it is not as if your opponent did not get the kill. Right. But what is done, is done. You can't change the past. And is there not a better time to get another kill, than when you are 5' away looking at an opponent's back?
|
|
hebbnh
True Bro
Cacodemon expert
Posts: 2,688
|
Post by hebbnh on Jul 2, 2015 10:54:06 GMT -5
You can't change the past, but you can change the future. Using radiance preemptively means you likely don't have to die in the first place. Yeah, I get the point that you can get some easy kills from 5 feet away with fireborn, but you can get easy nade kills from 10 or 20 feet away too. Sure, you might pop radiance early and then find the point cleared and then you wasted your super. You just as easily might pop fireborn and get shut down immediately and then you not only wasted your super, but also fed the other team 2 kills while you got 1 or none. And really, how often do you know there are 2 or 3 people capping a point while you're around the corner, and then they're all gone and you can't attack any of them by the time you take 3 seconds to pop radiance? Probably not very often. I think you're vastly overstating the potential for a preemptive radiance to be wasted.
You keep saying fireborn is an active-use thing but radiant skin isn't. I mean, yeah, I guess the perk itself isn't, but the way you use radiance is ultimately what determines things there. Pop radiance with radiant skin and then go chucking nades at everything in sight, and I'd call that an active use of your super -- even if radiant skin is a passive perk, you're going to actively benefit from it when used in this way.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 2, 2015 11:38:59 GMT -5
Yes, but how often do you need the 3rd, 4th or 5th grenade? Not often. To use your words...I think you are also vastly overstating this effect. (I think this might depend on the grenade type)
For example. You pop the super and hang back. Start out by tossing two grenades. This move will typically either get the kill(s) or not. Your surprise is gone though. If they don't die, only an dimwitted opponent will continue to stand in the same spot not moving (ok, it is IB). If those two grenades don't kill, the opponent at this point will most like rush you or move away. So any point in tossing grenades three through six gets diminishing results. They aren't needed. So why burn the super at all, if playing the distance game? Did I need a super for this? Not really. And the other reality is 'everything in sight' it typically just 1 to 3 opponents. Very rarely do you get the opportunity to get six opponents all standing next to each other, where grenades #3 through #6 might come in handy (and why attack six people with Radiant Skin)
I think I also said Radiant Skin is a "passive use". Ie, "being the object of action rather than causing action" If I decide not to hang back, go rushing in to attack.... IF all things go well, I will not have even needed the Super's Radiant Skin or the Super's + grenade effect. My first two fusion grenades may take out the first opponent, and a shotgun gets the second who is crouching in a corner. For that matter, like we said earlier, I personally saw many times where I popped it and by the time I got to the action, the opponent was gone or killed by teammates. Again, it takes a 1.0 to 1.5 seconds to light that up. Or I just might die. There are no guarantees that Radiant Skin gets an auto kill. All in all, Radiant Skin is essentially just insurance, in case your main attack doesn't work. Or, ...something helpful if there are 3+ enemies there. But really now, if the latter....why even use it then? You are feeding deaths.
It seems to be a play-style thing to me. Warlock sunsinger super is already kind of a reactionary/passive instrument. Prone to being wasted. At least with self revive, IF I choose to employ it, activate it, I know THAT element of the super (revive) was justified in using. It wasn't wasted. It will get me an opportunity to get a kill, with an advantage (a surprise attack) And the other elements of the Super (grenades 3+), mostly just a bonus.
|
|