hebbnh
True Bro
Cacodemon expert
Posts: 2,688
|
Post by hebbnh on Jul 2, 2015 12:05:19 GMT -5
If they rush you or move away, aren't you accomplishing exactly what you set out to do? Getting them off the cap point? Also, using firebolts with both burn perks and chucking 2 nades to start (in about 2 seconds, not much time to move away), anyone hit by both nades is dead guaranteed. Anyone that rushes you gets shot by your primary or melee'd and now you have an overshield. Anyone that runs away is out of commission for 10+ seconds while they wait for health recovery or they get picked off by teammates or you toss nades at them as they run and hide since firebolts can hit behind cover. That's what nades 4, 5, and 6 are for. Why use a super at all in that situation? To make clearing that flag a whole lot easier/faster with a much lower risk of your own death, the same reason you'd use golden gun, fist of havoc, nova bomb, etc.
I also fail to see how chucking 2 nades while barely exposing yourself in a 1v3 when you know exactly where the enemies are, is feeding deaths. You're not exposed long enough to get shot that many times. Adding to that, by definition using fireborn means you fed a death. If fireborn gets shut down, you just fed two deaths. I don't see how that's better in any situation. Maybe you rush in and get lucky and don't even need fireborn, but probably not if you're outnumbered. I just don't understand the thought process there with almost guaranteeing yourself at least one death and possibly two, vs almost guaranteeing yourself not to die. I don't see how a preemptive radiance is any more prone to being wasted than golden gun or nova bomb really either. At this point we're just rehashing the same pros and cons to each approach so this is kind of pointless. I think fireborn is a waste in general crucible, period, and there are better ways to take advantage of radiance than playing recklessly and using a bail out card that often doesn't actually bail you out. That's the last thing I'm saying about it.
|
|
qupie
True Bro
Posts: 12,400
|
Post by qupie on Jul 2, 2015 12:17:50 GMT -5
It is not as good as I thought it would be. I think voidfang or heart of praxic fire are still better. (self res with full grenades or increased grenade/melee refill) And ofc ram. edit: why? because the blinding effect is not that effective, unless you are very very close. And you can's change possition anyway during res animation, so they can still shotgun you if they have some memory. The thing to not forget in free respawn game modes though, is that even if you self revive, it is not as if your opponent did not get the kill. Right. But what is done, is done. You can't change the past. And is there not a better time to get another kill, than when you are 5' away looking at an opponent's back? Well, that is where fireborn really shines, on instances where deaths are greatly panalysed, and fireborn completely removes this penalty (ToO, Nightfall, Hard raid). Those are instances where only the fact that you come back to live is worth your super energy, in other game modes I would call that actually wasting a super, just reviving (while the other team still gets the "reward" of you kill). All you can win with it in control is a 10 second run. Also some thing to keep in mind: Enemies run away or get killed by teammates just as easy after self revive as after a radiant skin activation. There is not really a difference between the two on that part. The point you are trying to make is that you wait for the enemy to turn his back on you AND there is guaranteed enemy nearby. In my experience, it doesn't work like that, because unless the enemy was t-bagging you, he is probably just as far away as he would have been with radiant skin super. In fact, if you wait for your enemy to turn your back on you, they are 99% actively moving away from you. Ppl don't hang around after self rez and wait for a slap, they run away just like with a normal radiance activation. There is not really a difference there. The only time they stay around is if they are really stupid, or if they are waiting for you with a shotgun. In fact, if you learn to activate radiance at the right time and place, you can do it while they are moving towards you, instead of away from you. (like for example, if you have B and C, and they spawn at A. You could radiance around b and enemies will come). Fireborn is a bad choice in the long run for control IMHO. Sure sometimes you get this awesome payback, but learning to use radiance in another way can be way more valuable imho.
|
|
qupie
True Bro
Posts: 12,400
|
Post by qupie on Jul 2, 2015 12:50:00 GMT -5
I agree with about everything this guy says about the class: seems like a good guy to follow, I am going to look at some of his other video's.
|
|
mannon
True Bro
wordy bastard PSN:mannonc Steam:mannonc XB:BADmannon
Posts: 15,371
|
Post by mannon on Jul 2, 2015 13:58:49 GMT -5
It definitely depends on play style. I find that whether I use radiant skin or fireborn changes the way I use my super. With fireborn I hang on to my super waiting for a good opportunity to revive and surprise some people. So the first two effects of using fireborn are it delays the use of my Super, and when I have my super up I also delay some waiting to see if I should pop my super or respawn. When I do respawn sometimes I do some good work and sometimes I get shut down immediately out of the blue.
With radiant skin I rush to the action and if I find several enemies in an area, especially if there are some teammates, then I pop my Super and go to work. Sometimes my teammates kill them all first and all I can do is run around hoping to hunt down some enemies or maybe toss some hail mary grenades and hope for the best. Personally... that doesn't happen too much for me. I don't know, maybe it's largely luck, but I think also timing. I usually start off being fairly selective about when to pop my Super, because I don't want to be shut down and I don't want it to run out unused. If it takes too long to find an engagement to my liking then I will lower my standards. I don't want to hang on to it too long. I think the key is knowing what you can do with it.
Yes radiant skin is a passive perk, but for me it has the opposite effect on my Super. It turns my super from something used reactively for revenge kills and into something I think of as a weapon in it's own right. With Radiant Skin super up and most everybody fighting over B that's the perfect time to strike out for that triple cap or to flip the spawns to your advantage. Or you can just rush B, pop it around the corner, and wade in. As long as you make them trade you hit for hit you can easily finish off at least 2 enemies, and with a few grenades probably more.
As for how many grenades one may use during a super... actually that's just really dependant on the situation and your tactics. I have rained grenades down during my super many, many times. Flinging DoT firebolts at the CP where multiple enemies are located is massively disruptive. You may not get the kills but even 1 teammate also attacking should be able to clear a numerically superior force. Solars are also very useful to spam during a super as you can cover a lot of real estate. Consider defending B on Blind Watch. Sometimes I will just pop my super on the CP and spam grenades at both doors making it very difficult to assault us at all from A side for a time. It doesn't get a lot of kills most of the time, but it controls the space and supports your team. Since the enemy team can't rush the friendly team usually can push them back and it's that much harder for them to gain ground again onnce your super is up. So I do get to my 4th or 5th grenade actually quite a bit at times, depending on how I use my super. With Skin it's usually not right up in super close quarters so grenade spamming makes a lot of sense. (Although never bother tossing a grenade that might hurt somebody that you can just shoot and kill.) But a few grenades at least does wonders to create chaos on their end.
Fusions are the grenades that probably benefit least from spamming unless you have a whole team clustered up close so that you might get lots of sticks.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 2, 2015 14:57:33 GMT -5
That's a good video Qupie To add to it ---------------------------------------------------------------- www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/75074436/0/0-Basic Melee:................ 100 dmg, all classes, 4 meter range -Titan: Storm First:..........110 dmg, Striker, 4m -Titan: Disintergrate:........110 dmg, Defender, 4m -Hunter: Throwing Knife:......100 dmg (130 precision dmg),Thrown -Hunter: Blink strike: .......100 dmg, Bladedancer, 5.8m -Warlock: Energy Drain: ......110 dmg, Voidwalker, 6m -Warlock: Scorch: ............100 dmg (+25 burn 3.5sec)= 125d, 6m
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 2, 2015 16:00:33 GMT -5
I agree with about everything this guy says about the class: seems like a good guy to follow, I am going to look at some of his other video's. I get confused on this at times, but the video reminded me of a point. Something that has been missing in this back and forth debate. When you use Self Revive....it's not like you are suddenly some weakened cripple coming back to life. Your effective health goes from like 200 (approximate) to around 400 health. You are stronger. You are reaping shield/armor benefits with your super AND you don't need Radiant Skin to get that. All Radiant Skin is doing is giving an extra 50 health on top of it, pushing you to 450 (+12.5%) When having this discussion, the above fact seems to be getting tossed aside, that PLUS the fact that the player with "Self Revive" still has the option to use the same tactics as the Radiant Skin user. If I run into what appears to be a tough battle, I can still play the same tactics, even if I have Self Revive. I can still pop a Super ahead of time. And then toss endless grenades from a distance. Or I can still jump into battle with double armor. I can still do what the Radiant Skin user does (although with 11% less armor)....AND still have the option to do a self revive. The Radiant Skin user....doesn't have that flexibility. That's the point that keeps getting left out. With self revive, it's not one or the other. I still have both options. I can play it both ways. All I am missing out on it's 12% more armor. Does that make THAT big of a difference, IF I elect to pop the super while alive, jump into battle? I really don't think so. If I pop that super I'm still going in behind 2 to 3 fusion grenades, with a shotgun, and still with 400 health. The number of times that doesn't work due to NOT having an extra 50 health is going to be extremely few and far between. Like probably once a night. Is that really worth giving up the OPTION of self reviving whenever I want? No. When I look it at like the above, ...I'm not sure how one goes against it.
|
|
hebbnh
True Bro
Cacodemon expert
Posts: 2,688
|
Post by hebbnh on Jul 2, 2015 17:07:43 GMT -5
I go against it for reasons already stated numerous times. Namely, you're dying more or at least upping your risk of dying more with fireborn. You end up kill trading or worse in situations you could have won outright. You're too liable to "rage revive" into a bad situation that gets you killed again immediately. You end up holding your super too long waiting for a good self-res opportunity. You get used to making bad decisions knowing you have self-res in your back pocket, and that probably starts to carry over to your play with other classes as well meaning you're playing worse overall. Almost any jam you get yourself out of with self-res you could have probably avoided in the first place by supering preemptively. Once you start avoiding those situations then self-res is a completely wasted perk. It gives you options, but what's the point if you don't ever need to use it? Ergo, use radiant skin instead. Maybe some of that "meta" analysis is above the level of this discussion, but thinking about it that way, I can't see any good reason to run fireborn.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 2, 2015 22:45:04 GMT -5
Well, then there's nothing really left to discuss then.
|
|
qupie
True Bro
Posts: 12,400
|
Post by qupie on Jul 3, 2015 5:08:49 GMT -5
I get confused on this at times, but the video reminded me of a point. Something that has been missing in this back and forth debate. When you use Self Revive....it's not like you are suddenly some weakened cripple coming back to life. Your effective health goes from like 200 (approximate) to around 400 health. You are stronger. You are reaping shield/armor benefits with your super AND you don't need Radiant Skin to get that. All Radiant Skin is doing is giving an extra 50 health on top of it, pushing you to 450 (+12.5%) When having this discussion, the above fact seems to be getting tossed aside, that PLUS the fact that the player with "Self Revive" still has the option to use the same tactics as the Radiant Skin user. If I run into what appears to be a tough battle, I can still play the same tactics, even if I have Self Revive. I can still pop a Super ahead of time. And then toss endless grenades from a distance. Or I can still jump into battle with double armor. I can still do what the Radiant Skin user does (although with 11% less armor)....AND still have the option to do a self revive. The Radiant Skin user....doesn't have that flexibility. That's the point that keeps getting left out. With self revive, it's not one or the other. I still have both options. I can play it both ways. All I am missing out on it's 12% more armor. Does that make THAT big of a difference, IF I elect to pop the super while alive, jump into battle? I really don't think so. If I pop that super I'm still going in behind 2 to 3 fusion grenades, with a shotgun, and still with 400 health. The number of times that doesn't work due to NOT having an extra 50 health is going to be extremely few and far between. Like probably once a night. Is that really worth giving up the OPTION of self reviving whenever I want? No. When I look it at like the above, ...I'm not sure how one goes against it. Almost all the arguments for fireborn and radiant skin can be said for both sides actually. Like fluking your super can happen just as easy with fireborn as with radiant skin. I agree with you though, the added flexibility can be nice. The drawback is that you will probably sit on your super longer, and if played right you will probably only use the fireborn part half of the time at most in control. It is just risky as hell and gets you kill easy by allot of things (shotguns + melee and sniper headshots don't care about 400 health). My opinion is not fireborn is 100% useless, it is more like radiant skin is 10% more useful. Those 12.5% do help though, you can take an additional hit from the best weapons in the game. It gets really beneficial when combined with flame shield. (and crazy powerfull with ram and fire shield) The biggest part for me remains this: The animation takes around 2 seconds for you to self rez, this is easily enough time for your opponent to line you up with a shotgun or run away (intentionally or unintentionally). If you get good at activating radiance in the first place, you can get in better scenarios WITH the added benefits of radiant skin.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 3, 2015 7:31:10 GMT -5
Well, as I said to Heb, there is no discussion left on this particular aspect. Move on.
|
|
qupie
True Bro
Posts: 12,400
|
Post by qupie on Jul 3, 2015 9:58:14 GMT -5
Okay, but towards what I like these kind of discussions We already have a weapons thread, so this could be great to discuss iron banner loadouts. I will also throw out this advice on how to advance the quickest: the key is to use as much bounties as possible (so try to do them on as many characters as possible every day), and use the level boost given by a higher alt rank. This results in the following scheme: 1: Level your first character to rank 1 (could go directly for 2, as 1 is very short) 2: Level your 2nd and 3rd character to rank 1 (could go directly for 2, as 1 is very short) 3: Level your first character to rank 2 4: Level your 2nd and 3rd character to rank 2 etc etc. That is the reason I think "going to five on first character, then the rest" is suboptimal. It is still pretty quick, but you are only using a few bounty days on the alts that way. So whats next? Gunslinger loadouts? Or hunter load outs in general? I am especially curious what perks ppl use on gunslinger and how to utilize the blade dancer super in the best way.
|
|
wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
|
Post by wings on Jul 3, 2015 10:02:18 GMT -5
Also, the 10 kills without dying bounty has had its XP doubled to 10,000XP. You will still, however, join a game in progress and get Super'd upon spawn having got 9 kills.
|
|
qupie
True Bro
Posts: 12,400
|
Post by qupie on Jul 3, 2015 10:22:04 GMT -5
The bounty is not easy, but if you really want to go for it, it is doable. Don't forget assists count! Just hang back with thorn and single tap everybody you see.
I mostly don't even bother, it is not a biggie if you don't get that bounty every day. Sometimes you will get it for free anyway. Some ppl obsess with it to much and therefore lose 5 matches in a row. I try to use the bounties as a guidance for playstyle, but never let it completely change my playstyle. (On days LMG's are not working for me, I just use a rocket, screw that one bounty, I can make or break a match with some right placed rockets denying them heavy ammo)
The bounties are only worth a few matches in reputation, it is not THAT big a deal.
|
|
wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
|
Post by wittyscorpion on Jul 3, 2015 10:28:27 GMT -5
I have a few points to help us move on I managed to find some time to be home alone on Thursday, binged my Hunter as Bladedancer all the way to rank 3 for an EL. Then late last night I can't sleep so I binged my Warlock as Voidwalker to rank 3 as well for another EL. A few thoughts: 1) Blink is great once you get a hang of it. It will take some time to get used to (I spent all of last IB sucking badly at it), but if I can then all the bros here should be able to as well. Give it a try. If you don't feel comfortable doing it in PvP, maybe start using them in PvE first. As a player who has barely gotten out of the novice stage, I have a few things to say about my experience. Instead of doing it here, I'll create a dedicated thread; 2) Bladedancer is arguably the subclass with THE best synergy among its perks. I took the loadout qupie and hebbnh suggested and the effectiveness vs. what I had before is night and day a) "Blink" movement and "Backstab" "Blink Strike": a great combo. Use Blink to throw your opponent off his aim and get over him or to the side, then follow up with a Blink Strike to get the Backstab effect. You'll annoy a lot of players for sure. On top of that, Quick Draw let you have weapon ready immediately after movement, great synergy; b) Blink movement and "Arc Blade": Unless you are a Striker with Fist of Havoc at ready, an Arc Blade player coming at you is one of the most terrifying moment in Destiny PvP. A player in blade lunges motion is already pretty difficult to shoot at, add Blink on top of that it is pretty darn impossible for your opponent to land hits on you; c) Then add "Hungering Blade" on top of the deadly melees and very unpredictable movements,. so each Blink Strike / Arc Blade kill will also trigger health regeneration. That's just plainly superb; 3) Voidwalker setup This is more of a question. What is the best Voidwalker setup to use for PvP? a) Axion Bolt grenade is no brainer. Coupled with Voidfang it is a free kill machine; b) Movement = Blink; c) Nova Bomb perk: which one is the best? I was using Shatter, Switched to Vortex this time, and currently wondering whether Lance is a better option (more on this later); d) Energy Drain perk: with Ram, looks like Soul Rip is no brainer; e) Annihilate is also no brainer; f) Tough choice for last column: Vortex Mastery or Embrace the Void? Vortex Mastery is great to go with Vortex of c) while Embrace the Void can chain stuff together. Hmm... I am in favor of Embrace the Void, but I would like to see what more experienced bros think.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 3, 2015 11:17:40 GMT -5
Okay, but towards what I like these kind of discussions We already have a weapons thread, so this could be great to discuss iron banner loadouts. What i said was on just that aspect. The whole 'Radiant skin' vs Revive thing. There's nothing left to discuss is there? You guys both offered your opinion what you think is best. I actually went and tried what you said, multiple sessions. It didn't work for me, and think another way better fits my play style. So i offered my opinion what is best. You said i was wrong, with one of the reasons being it won't work, because people aren't smart enough to know when to use Radiance. Ie, ' you are to dumb to use this properly' point. Ok. How does one debate that? One can't when it dissolves into calling someone to dumb (especially in FPS shooter like this one) So there's nothing left here, especially so when the discussion is also on what is really a 1 bullet difference that exists during a few moments of the game (the difference between 400 & 450 armor, during a super, if you get hit) Feel free to debate that, but i see no use in doing so anymore. Like you mentioned maybe other loadouts & characters would be more productive?
|
|
|
Post by TheHawkNY on Jul 3, 2015 14:35:44 GMT -5
I kind of consider spawning with 2 grenades every life to be the Sunsinger super, and Radiance is just the added bonus. Fireborn is all about when you use it. If you prevent one opponent from getting heavy, or sacrifice yourself to protect your teammates getting heavy and then use it to run back and get heavy, or prevent your team from losing the good spawn, it was worth it.
Bubblebro can actually be extremely useful in Control, if used correctly. It has to be done in a big fireteam, preferably full. What you want to do is drop it on the key objective, and announce that you are doing so. By doing this, you can create 3 orbs that hopefully most players on your team can grab and charge their supers. The important part is that they don't stand in the bubble. Get the orbs, get the blessing, and gtfo. Teammates should push forward and keep opponents spawn trapped. It makes it very difficult - they have to get past a bunch of people with blessing shields just to get to the flag, which has a bubble. The titan should stay in the bubble with a shotgun, because if he dies, it disappears, and on more shields for anyone. Only jump out to pick up orbs your teammates create. It's also a great strategy because it requires very little skill. A weak player can provide tremendous support to the team's better players this way.
Also, if you see a Warlock run towards the bubble and jump, immediately jump up and back, you may survive a nova bomb if you're behind the bubble.
|
|
|
Post by TheHawkNY on Jul 3, 2015 14:41:06 GMT -5
Also, if you're going to bubble the heavy ammo spawn to protect your teammates, don't drop it on the heavy, drop it next to the heavy in the direction the enemy nova bomb would come from to block it.
|
|
wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
|
Post by wittyscorpion on Jul 3, 2015 14:48:33 GMT -5
I kind of consider spawning with 2 grenades every life to be the Sunsinger super, and Radiance is just the added bonus. Fireborn is all about when you use it. If you prevent one opponent from getting heavy, or sacrifice yourself to protect your teammates getting heavy and then use it to run back and get heavy, or prevent your team from losing the good spawn, it was worth it. Bubblebro can actually be extremely useful in Control, if used correctly. It has to be done in a big fireteam, preferably full. What you want to do is drop it on the key objective, and announce that you are doing so. By doing this, you can create 3 orbs that hopefully most players on your team can grab and charge their supers. The important part is that they don't stand in the bubble. Get the orbs, get the blessing, and gtfo. Teammates should push forward and keep opponents spawn trapped. It makes it very difficult - they have to get past a bunch of people with blessing shields just to get to the flag, which has a bubble. The titan should stay in the bubble with a shotgun, because if he dies, it disappears, and on more shields for anyone. Only jump out to pick up orbs your teammates create. It's also a great strategy because it requires very little skill. A weak player can provide tremendous support to the team's better players this way. Also, if you see a Warlock run towards the bubble and jump, immediately jump up and back, you may survive a nova bomb if you're behind the bubble. When I am around a friendly bubble (either mine or from teamates) I like to use it as a "base camp" for making the next move, aggressive or defensive. I don't stand in it (well, I used to be dumb enough to do that a lot, but now I know better ), instead I move in and out of the bubble to "dip" myself into the over shield. If I see red alert coming towards the bubble while I am capping, I will move forward to meet it, hopefully winning the gunfight by having the over shield. If the incoming player is focusing on super the bubble, he will either have to use the super on me or better, too preoccupied to realize my existence. Of course, the above tactics will make me "perfect" meat for the bubble sniper heb described. So far though I have never been sniped this way, and now knowing such tactics exist I will be careful in the future not to expose myself to long sightlines Bubble definitely its limitations, but I sure prefer to have a defender on my team rather than having him on the other team. Also as I said before, more enemy defenders = a lot more trouble. In this case 1 + 1 > 2. If you are facing a team with 3+ defenders (which I had the "luck" to encounter 2-3 times), well, you can pretty much assume that the game is already lot. Good thing that the majority of the players don't play as Defender because it is just not as fun as other subclasses.
|
|
wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
|
Post by wittyscorpion on Jul 3, 2015 14:58:54 GMT -5
I have a few points to help us move on I managed to find some time to be home alone on Thursday, binged my Hunter as Bladedancer all the way to rank 3 for an EL. Then late last night I can't sleep so I binged my Warlock as Voidwalker to rank 3 as well for another EL. A few thoughts: 1) Blink is great once you get a hang of it. It will take some time to get used to (I spent all of last IB sucking badly at it), but if I can then all the bros here should be able to as well. Give it a try. If you don't feel comfortable doing it in PvP, maybe start using them in PvE first. As a player who has barely gotten out of the novice stage, I have a few things to say about my experience. Instead of doing it here, I'll create a dedicated thread; 2) Bladedancer is arguably the subclass with THE best synergy among its perks. I took the loadout qupie and hebbnh suggested and the effectiveness vs. what I had before is night and day a) "Blink" movement and "Backstab" "Blink Strike": a great combo. Use Blink to throw your opponent off his aim and get over him or to the side, then follow up with a Blink Strike to get the Backstab effect. You'll annoy a lot of players for sure. On top of that, Quick Draw let you have weapon ready immediately after movement, great synergy; b) Blink movement and "Arc Blade": Unless you are a Striker with Fist of Havoc at ready, an Arc Blade player coming at you is one of the most terrifying moment in Destiny PvP. A player in blade lunges motion is already pretty difficult to shoot at, add Blink on top of that it is pretty darn impossible for your opponent to land hits on you; c) Then add "Hungering Blade" on top of the deadly melees and very unpredictable movements,. so each Blink Strike / Arc Blade kill will also trigger health regeneration. That's just plainly superb; 3) Voidwalker setup This is more of a question. What is the best Voidwalker setup to use for PvP? a) Axion Bolt grenade is no brainer. Coupled with Voidfang it is a free kill machine; b) Movement = Blink; c) Nova Bomb perk: which one is the best? I was using Shatter, Switched to Vortex this time, and currently wondering whether Lance is a better option (more on this later); d) Energy Drain perk: with Ram, looks like Soul Rip is no brainer; e) Annihilate is also no brainer; f) Tough choice for last column: Vortex Mastery or Embrace the Void? Vortex Mastery is great to go with Vortex of c) while Embrace the Void can chain stuff together. Hmm... I am in favor of Embrace the Void, but I would like to see what more experienced bros think. For Voidwalker last column: looks like some players vouch for Bloom. Is that actually the best choice? Another basic loadout question besides the 3) above regarding Voidwalker: what should I strive for in Armor vs. Agility vs. Recovery? The common wisdom is to go for Armor & Agility and ignore Recovery, right? In that case, for Hunter and Titan I should strike to keep Armor vs. Agility to be as balanced as possible, right? Or should I consider extra agility for Hunter and extra Armor for Titan? I can also use some tips on how to get the most out of tripmine grenade and lightning grenades.
|
|
mannon
True Bro
wordy bastard PSN:mannonc Steam:mannonc XB:BADmannon
Posts: 15,371
|
Post by mannon on Jul 3, 2015 17:23:21 GMT -5
If playing 6v6 and going for multikills then bloom can be useful for clearing a CP. In general most encounters aren't going to be clustered up so it's far less useful for 1v1 and 1v2. I think I pretty much only use it with the exotic that gives you an extra cluster and makes them seek. For that one yeah you want bloom for sure. A nice group of enemies can make 1 cluster grenade do the same work as a nova bomb. And since you have 2 you can save one for groups and still have one to use in 1v1's.
|
|
|
Post by TheHawkNY on Jul 4, 2015 7:55:44 GMT -5
Tripmine and lightning grenades have an explosion that has a cylindrical shape with a very small radius, but is very tall. In the floor, they're worthless. Always stick them in a wall.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 5, 2015 15:16:59 GMT -5
I have tried to play a bit today, but it has been a waste of time mostly. Six of the first eight games were games in progress losses, and only winning one of the other two. A few other games, keep getting matched against teams.
Playing right now, and just parking my character in a far corner...and doing other stuff.
Great game here Bingie.
|
|
wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
|
Post by wittyscorpion on Jul 5, 2015 19:51:41 GMT -5
The bros on the XONE should start planning for some ToO sessions.
It is difficult for me to join before August (and I am going to suck anyway), but you guys should be able to get together on Fridays or Mondays.
|
|
wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
|
Post by wings on Jul 6, 2015 6:46:27 GMT -5
I think perhaps medallions should go and you get 80% gains upon a loss. There is no point hanging around if you are on five medallions, which can be easily gotten due to joining games in progress.
I will happily play ToO when Iron Banner is not on, although I'm getting tired of the lack of spawn swapping needed for maps like Thieves Den etc.
Oh and Destiny has until October to give me the Gjallarhorn until I start losing interest in doing activities that reward an exotic chance. Either that or nerf it because I bet the Thorn will get nerfed before the Gjallarhorn. No other weapon allows you to bypass the game mechanics but this. Three Gjallarhorns and Qodron is toast. Eye, what Eye? What detainment shield? Or have the detainment shields activated based on Qodron's health, similar to the Skolas' change.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 6, 2015 8:56:34 GMT -5
You are preaching to the choir there Wings, about the Ghorn. It's ridiculous. It's a complete hose-job by Bungie to keep up this silly charade they have going with it.
Anyways. I didn't have anywhere near the time I thought I would have with IB. But...I was amazed how quickly those bonuses stacked with my third character (the Hunter). I got home late last night around 10pmET and started my Hunter at ground zero. Played two to three hours, then played about four or five games this morning....I am already 378 points into level four. It seemed like I got like 500+ pts per bounty last night. So I guess around 3,000 to 3,500 pts there. Throw in a bunch of wins with buffs, I guess that got me there? I don't know what I was getting, maybe 150 or more a win? I am over level 4 though.
Hunter, level 4.15 Titan, Level 3.5 Warlock, level 4.75
I might be able to get all the above to level 5 tonight.
- Surprisingly, the Hunter has been my best playing character. If I had to guess, I would say I am easily ran a 1.50 to 1.75 KD with it last night, using BladeDancer, Knucklehead radar exotic & blink jumping. Some very good games. I blew threw all the bounties in no time at all. Multiple 10+ completions (its' a shame i couldn't redo that bounty) If I were to guess, I think it's due to running into less groups. Easier competition makes for more winning. So far my worst IB gaming has been with the Titan, and I think that was due to Sunday morning's time slot. More groups.
- I can't believe it took me as long as it did to figure out that LMG bounty. I never understood how it worked, that if you reloaded, you reset your progress. Now that I understand, I am blowing through that one pretty easily. It's not that difficult.
- I had some luck too on Sunday morning. Before doing my Titan's IB run, I had some CoD friends help me with my first PoE run at level 32 (1st non-solo attempt). I got all three of my characters through it, getting them all a level 42 helmet. That helps a good bit, in getting my characters to level 34. The PoE at level 32 was fun. Definitely harder than lv 28.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 6, 2015 9:05:03 GMT -5
I think perhaps medallions should go and you get 80% gains upon a loss. There is no point hanging around if you are on five medallions, which can be easily gotten due to joining games in progress. I agree. Quitting is still rampant. I got heavily sucked into a Game in Progress trap the other day. Mutiple GiPs over and over and over, pretty much sticking me with losses very quickly. I hit five medallions very quickly. I also started quitting games. What's the point of staying in a game, if you need a W and your bounties are done? Not much. You have to quit. I think the above is compounded what may be lack of numbers on this game. When playing this morning, I ran into the same group of opponents four times (backed out on them the last two). Yes, it was morning, but are there that few people playing?
|
|
mannon
True Bro
wordy bastard PSN:mannonc Steam:mannonc XB:BADmannon
Posts: 15,371
|
Post by mannon on Jul 6, 2015 9:12:08 GMT -5
I kind of like having to get a win to cash them in so you have some motivation to go for wins instead of just games played, but yeah after 5 losses having no incentive to finish losing games is bad. Maybe split the difference with 40% gain for merely finishing and medallion worth 40% rep, and maybe double the medallions before cap as well. Then it would mean you can get up to the same amount of XP saved up in medallions from lost games, but it would take twice the number of losses and even if you never won a game you're still getting something even if you are capped. *shrug*
|
|
hebbnh
True Bro
Cacodemon expert
Posts: 2,688
|
Post by hebbnh on Jul 6, 2015 10:04:53 GMT -5
iw5000: Yeah, that "catch up" bonus is really really nice! I'm hoping to get my Titan up to rank 3 in a few games tonight and then switch off to other characters and get them there as well. Hoping for around an hour or so per character. We should team up, I think THebb will be on too. Playing solo last night for a couple hours was brutal. I had like 2 decent games out of 10. I don't know what the deal was -- too much partying over the long weekend I guess. I only ran into a full team once and my team of randoms stomped them. Otherwise the biggest groups I was were only 2 people, but I couldn't win gunfights to save my life. It didn't help that my teammates were running around like psychopaths flipping spawns every 30 seconds either. Also, congrats on the PoE 32 runs. This week's is one of the tougher ones. The arc burn hive round can be pretty rough. Next week's boss (the level 34 boss this week) can be fairly tough too if you don't Gjallarhorn him down immediately.
|
|
qupie
True Bro
Posts: 12,400
|
Post by qupie on Jul 6, 2015 10:06:24 GMT -5
I actually loved to get into games in progress, it gives you the best rep/time return, as long as you don't lose 5 in a row. I got thrown into 17000-5000 three times in a row and it gave me some quick medals. But I can see how getting that 10 times in a row can screw you over. Getting it 6-7 times will probably still get you more REP than playing 5 fresh games in that time though. The reason why it happens is when you have a big difference in score between teams the lobby gets dismantled and matchmaking starts again. And if that happens and you happen to play alone, there is a pretty good chance you get thrown into a game in progress. So really the best thing you can do is not AFK (as that is only making the problem worse for everybody) but try to get the gap smaller. Once the gap is small enough you cannot get into a new game in progress, as you play with the same lobby again.
It would be good if you get like 25% of REP after you build up 5 losses, like okay you screwed up, here is a little rep and a fresh slate, try harder. If you quit the 5th game, it gets turned it for 25% automatically, so there would be no incentive to quit lobbies.
Or maybe the rep should be directly be correlated with the score your team has, that might actually be the best way to do it, with the hardest to cheese, because lets be honest. These are not really flaws in the game design imho, it are flaws in humanity, because ppl want rewards asap with as little effort as possible. Although it is their task to make the cheesing as hard as possible, it will always happen, because there needs to be a quit options without (big) repercussions, because of real life stuff. Maybe quiting out of Iron Banner should put you on a 5 min cool-down or something? (Or maybe put that rule in effect once somebody quit 2 times in an hour)
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 6, 2015 10:13:30 GMT -5
I actually loved to get into games in progress, it gives you the best rep/time return, as long as you don't lose 5 in a row. I got thrown into 17000-5000 three times in a row and it gave me some quick medals. But I can see how getting that 10 times in a row can screw you over. Getting it 6-7 times will probably still get you more REP than playing 5 fresh games in that time though. Timing is everything. I would gladly take multiple 10,000 to 18,000 GiPs, with the game almost over. In fact, I happily take those. But it's those earlier games that are like 3,000 to 6,000 games. Yes, you still have time to get back a win, but you were dumped into that game for a reason typically.... your team sucks. Speaking for myself, I am not enough of a stud to fix those problems. These games suck. Why would you want the same lobby again? Take this morning, I ran into the same grouped up people multiple times. Why would I want to deal with that? I just AFK'd, did some morning stuff, got my Loss-Medalion and tried to find a new lobby.
|
|